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United Nations-Sponsored Talks Aimed at Establishing Post- Taliban Government in Afghanistan Begin Tomorrow in Germany

Aired November 26, 2001 - 07:23   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: United Nations sponsored talks aimed at establishing a post-Taliban government in Afghanistan begin tomorrow in Bonn, Germany. While there is some hope for establishing a democratic government in Kabul, there is also anxiety next door about what the shape of a new Afghan government could mean to Pakistan's future.

For his perspective, we welcome back Richard Butler of the Council on Foreign Relations, of course, the former chief U.N. weapons inspector and our ambassador in residence. Did you have a good holiday?

RICHARD BUTLER, FORMER CHIEF U.N. WEAPONS INSPECTOR: It was work but I'm glad to be back. Good to see you again.

ZAHN: Welcome back.

BUTLER: OK.

ZAHN: Before we get into the specifics of what Pakistan wants and what's going to go down in Bonn, your quick reaction to the presence of U.S. marines on the ground and what that indicates.

BUTLER: It's a very important change. Clearly, their purpose is to provide a secure base of options for special forces to go look for Osama bin Laden and al Qaeda. But, of course, Paula, it represents a new development in this war, what they call boots on the ground. That's serious. That's real. They're an immensely capable force, 1,000 now, let's see if they'll be more. There are a few thousand more off the coast. But it's a change. It's a significant development.

ZAHN: Are you confident Osama bin Laden will be found, dead or alive?

BUTLER: It's hard to say. Confident, let me think about that. No, I'm not confident. I'm very hopeful. I think the chances are good. But why I'm hesitating in saying yes, I'm confident, is because it's a tough one. The national technical means that were referred to in that last interview are very important, listening to any telephone calls or radio messages that he may send, watching from the sky movements day or night, fantastic technology that can see any change in temperature where there's a human body present and so on. Those things are good.

But in the end, Paula, this place is riddled with caves. There was a cave called the wolf hole during the Soviet period in Afghanistan which the Soviet army tried for weeks to get rid of. They threw everything at it -- artillery, bombs and so on. It was an amazing operation. They finally got the wolf hole...

ZAHN: At the end, after two months, right, of work?

BUTLER: That's right. They got it and it was one of only many such caves and the reports are that in a matter of a few months afterwards the Taliban or the Afghans had rebuilt it and it was up and running again.

So it's a tough call. But the marines on the ground shows new determination and let's hope that we do find him.

ZAHN: Let's fast forward, tomorrow, when these very important meetings are taking place in Bonn, Germany in an effort to establish a new government in Kabul. What do you expect to happen?

BUTLER: Well, remember a couple of weeks ago I think we talked about the previous muddle of Cambodia, where a dozen years ago a similar kind of setting took place. That's what I see. Lakhdar Brahimi, the secretary general's special representative for this issue, a very distinguished Algerian diplomat who understands the Muslim world, understands that part of the world, he will chair a meeting.

Now, all the parties concerned will come to that meeting and the aim will be to set up an interim government, a temporary arrangement for Afghanistan leading ultimately to elections of a permanent democratic government.

A crucial thing, Paula, is that interim government must include all factions, not just the Northern Alliance. The Northern Alliance has got the strong hand militarily now.

ZAHN: Sure.

BUTLER: But if they play that out politically and say we want the whole show, we want overwhelming representation on this interim government...

ZAHN: Well, then the Pakistanis are going to be in revolt.

BUTLER: The Pakistanis are going to be in deep, deep trouble and concerned about this because the Pakistanis on the whole are sympathetic to the Pashtun people in Afghanistan. That's in the south and in the east. If the Northern Alliance, who are not Pashtuns, if they seek to keep the Pashtun representation down, there'll be big trouble.

ZAHN: There is talk this morning and there was a front page story in the "Financial Times of London" about the potential representation of the Taliban -- if there is such a thing as a moderate member of the Taliban government -- in this new government. Do you see that happening?

BUTLER: Yes, and I think it's probably essential. I go back again to the Cambodia example, which I was directly involved in. We included in that interim government in Cambodia, believe it or not, two representatives of the Khmer Rouge. Remember that group that killed, genocide, millions of Cambodians.

ZAHN: Sure.

BUTLER: We included them. They were acceptable, in inverted commas, individuals. They didn't represent the Khmer Rouge.

The Taliban deputy interior minister yesterday crossed to the Northern Alliance, condemning the Taliban. Now, he might be an example of a personality who could be included in this interim group...

ZAHN: That would be acceptable.

BUTLER: ... without formally representing the Taliban.

ZAHN: OK, walk us through very, very quickly what's going to happen in the Middle East. We have the two U.S. envoys now on the ground in Israel as talks get ready to get under way.

BUTLER: Right. Really important development. The U.S. has now recommitted to getting the peace process to work. That comes from the president himself and, of course, Secretary of State Powell.

The first step is to send General Zinni and William Burns, the assistant secretary of state and the former marine corps head of that area, send them there to try to get the fighting to stop, to try to get some pause in the violence so that the peace process can be put back on track. I think it's a very important development.

ZAHN: And we'll have you back this time tomorrow and I'm sure we'll be talking about those meetings, as they will be in full force by this time tomorrow.

BUTLER: Good.

ZAHN: Welcome back.

BUTLER: Thank you.

ZAHN: Good to have you back in town.

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