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American Morning

Doctors Working with Massachusetts Company Have Created Human Embryos Through Cloning

Aired November 26, 2001 - 08:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
PAULA ZAHN, CNN NEWS: U.S. Marines now on the ground in Afghanistan and ready to fight. They could soon come face-to-face with the Taliban and al Qaeda.

Giving up in Konduz. The end of the road for the Taliban role in the north.

And cloning human cells. Medical breakthrough or ethical breakdown?

Good morning. Good to have you with us this morning. It is Monday, November 26th. From New York, I'm Paula Zahn.

This hour's big questions are some tough ones to answer. Now that the Taliban have been driven from power in most of Afghanistan, and with Osama bin Laden still at large, can the U.S. Marines on the ground finish the job?

Also, can a law stop human cloning? We're going to meet one member of Congress trying to do just that.

We will also be talking with the scientist who announced the first cloning of a human embryo.

And with a new Maryland law threatening to punish people who smoke in their own homes, our Jack Cafferty wonders aloud, has the ban on smoking gone too far?

First, though, let's catch up on the latest headlines, and for that we turn to Miles O'Brien, who is standing by in Atlanta on war (ph) (INAUDIBLE). Miles, good morning.

MILES O'BRIEN, CNN NEWS: Good morning, Paula.

The Marines are mobilizing in southern Afghanistan. U.S. Marines have landed south of Kandahar, the Taliban's last stronghold.

This as heavy fighting is reported in Kandahar itself. The troops began arriving yesterday by helicopter from Navy ships in the Arabian sea. Their numbers could grow to between 12 and 1,500 leather necks in the next 24 hours.

A senior U.S. official says, they'll be gathering intelligence in search for Osama bin Laden.

In northern Afghanistan, reports today of sporadic gunfire in Konduz. The Northern Alliance captured Konduz yesterday, as thousands of Taliban fighters surrendered.

Crowds of people have been pouring into the city square, many in celebration.

For the second day, U.S. warplanes are bombing a prison in Mazar- e Sharif, the bloody site of a Taliban revolt. Hundreds have been killed.

The opposition says U.S. special forces were involved in fighting earlier today. However, the Northern Alliance says the forces left after a U.S. missile hit the wrong side of the prison.

Three U.S. soldiers were reported hurt, but that has not been independently confirmed.

The U.N. is preparing for tomorrow's Afghan summit in Bonn, Germany. The political future of Afghanistan, as well as the issue of non-Afghan Taliban fighters, will be addressed there.

The president of the Northern Alliance says he wants so-called foreign fighters handed over to the U.N.

Delegations represented at the summit will include the Northern Alliance and groups representing Afghan refugees.

Back in the U.S., a presidential welcome today for those two American aid workers released by the Taliban. Heather Mercer and Dayna Curry arrived back in the country yesterday.

President Bush will meet privately with them today at the White House. Mercer's father, John, spoke with Paula just a short time ago about this homecoming.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOHN MERCER: It was absolutely fantastic. I just couldn't believe that she was actually home yesterday.

I had been fortunate enough to see her the day that she got out to Islamabad. And yesterday the reunion was so great, because her sister and her mother were there, her stepfather and many members of our family.

And she was ecstatic, as were we.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

O'BRIEN: CNN planning live coverage of their meeting with President Bush, 10 a.m. Eastern time, a little less than two hours from now.

Now, back to Paula in New York. ZAHN: Thanks, Miles.

The debate over human cloning is once again on the front burner. Over the weekend came word that doctors working with a Massachusetts company have created human embryos through cloning.

Now, to sort out all the science, we turn to our own medical correspondent, Elizabeth Cohen. Good morning.

ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Paula.

Paula, let's talk a little bit about what they did and why they did it.

What the scientists did is, they took DNA from a normal person, someone just like you and me. They took that that DNA. They then got a human egg from somebody else, hollowed out that egg and put the DNA from the original person into that egg.

They then treated it with a recipe of chemicals, and that egg, then, divided as if it were an embryo.

So, an embryo usually has the DNA of two people, the mother and the father. But this egg only had the DNA of one person, of that original donor.

Now, let's talk about why they would want to do that. They say - this company, Advanced Cell Technology in Worcester, Massachusetts, says - that they want to take that embryo, which is microscopic, just teeny tiny, and make medical therapies that would be perfectly matched, perfectly suited for the person who donated the DNA.

For example, if someone needed a liver, you could clone them into a tiny embryo, take out the stem cells that are inside and make a liver, which theoretically would be perfectly matched. You wouldn't have to worry about rejection.

Now that's what Advanced Cell Technology wants to do. Again, they want to keep the embryo at the microscopic stage. They don't want to grow it up into a larger embryo. And they say that they certainly don't want to make a person.

Now, that's the big worry. Some people say, well, gee, if Advanced Cell Technology was able to make an embryo, maybe they don't want to put it into woman's womb and form a whole baby, but someone else, after reading their study, will now know how to do just that, and that's where the controversy is.

Paula?

ZAHN: All right. Thanks so much, Elizabeth. And of course, the company that created the embryo is - or embryos - is Advanced Cell Technology.

And the company's Chief Executive Officer, Michael West, joins us from Boston this morning. Welcome. MICHAEL WEST, PRESIDENT & CEO, ADVANCED CELL TECHNOLOGY, INC.: Thank you.

ZAHN: Good to have you aboard this morning.

WEST: Thanks.

ZAHN: So, can you describe to us this morning the difference between a therapeutic clone and reproductive cloning?

WEST: Well, there's really a bright line, here, in the - we call therapeutic cloning as opposed to reproductive cloning, we view the medical uses versus cloning of the human.

We're talking about using cloning technology to take a patient's cell back to the beginning of life, back to this blank embryonic state, where it can branch out and make anything the patient needs.

That, you know, even the critics of this would say that would revolutionize medicine and it would help millions of people who are sick and suffering and, indeed, dying.

What we disagree on is, we're talking - we're say we're talking about human cellular life, and that scientifically we know it's not a individualized human being. It's not a human life.

That's our disagreement. Some, I think extreme members of the pro-life group are trying to argue that the cellular life is a human life.

And I would think that maybe their reason is that, if they can win this debate, you know, they've slam-dunk won this age-long debate about abortion, which is about the killing of a fetus in a developing human being.

ZAHN: Well, let me ask you this. I know that you have said on the record before, you are opposed to human cloning, but isn't it true that this technology, now, will make it easier for someone - maybe not in your lab, but someone, someone else - to actually clone a human being?

WEST: Well, to be perfectly honest, I think it does. We weighed that in the balance when we were thinking of publishing this paper.

You know, why publish it? Why put it out in the public domain? What worked and what didn't work? Because these techniques could also be used separately by some people to clone a human being.

You know, what tipped the balance for us was that - and I, you know, this is how I earnestly feel. There are people out there, people we all care for, that are suffering and dying who need therapies now. And they simply don't have time.

And to say that this large number of people, indeed millions of people, should suffer and wait because some, I think, unfortunate people would want to go out and try to clone a human, I just don't think that's a fair tradeoff.

I think we need to think first and foremost about our fellow human beings' suffering.

ZAHN: But, obviously, you're being quite honest about, that the trade-off here.

Are you concerned that someone will attempt to create a human clone?

WEST: Well my major concern - and I'm not an expert on the ethics of reproductive cloning - my major concern there is really of safety, because, you know, it's like saying we had a rocket on a launch pad and maybe 20 percent of the time, you know, you hit the button to launch, and it blows up.

And in cloning, you know, maybe 20 percent of the time it doesn't work. And in animals, you can not only lose the developing animal clone, but you can lose the mother carrying the pregnancy, as well.

And so, say, women and children aboard, let's go. I don't think this is safe yet for human reproduction, just purely from a safety standpoint. That's my major concern.

ZAHN: Well, you know, and I think everybody in our audience understands, the House approved a sweeping piece of legislation banning human cloning.

What is it that you expect down the road in Washington that might have impact on research of this kind? Do you think you ultimately will be stopped?

WEST: Well, I think here is a classic example of an interface of science and fear about this brave new world center (ph). And we've seen it surface several times in history.

The most clear was about 20 years ago, when scientists wanted to make human embryos in the test tube. These same critics - they're criticizing us with this technology - these same people were saying, this is test tube babies. This is science gone too far. This - unfortunately the Catholic church called it illicit and immoral, meaning in vitro fertilization.

We almost had bills go before Congress that would have criminalized test tube babies. Fortunately, reason prevailed, compassion prevailed. And now we look back. IDF is, you know, it's pro-family. It's a wonderful thing.

I believe these technologies in medicine someday will be seen as lifesaving and an appropriate use of technology.

ZAHN: Dr. West, have you been threatened because of any of the work that's being done at your company?

WEST: Well, we've - it's sad to hear people say that, you know, we're, you know, this is reminiscent of Nazi Germany and all these types of things. It's hurtful to the soul, but I just really believe we're right on this one.

And I think that the opponents, I've only heard, in debating this now for several years, I've only heard them come up with words like, you know, embryo farms, Nazi Germany. That's the best they can do. They have no rational argument to say these technologies should not move forward.

ZAHN: I don't want to invade your privacy here, but you did skirt around that last question.

I'm just curious if people working in your lab feel that their safety is compromised in any way, because of the work you're doing there.

WEST: Well, you know, I think in an area as important as this, at least myself personally, you know, we have to take the risks associated with moving a new area forward like this.

As controversial as it is, we're right on this score and, you know, we just have to go forward.

ZAHN: Well, Dr. West, we know what a busy man you've been over the last 48 hours since you talked about this publicly for the first time. We appreciate your spending some time with us here ...

WEST: Thank you.

ZAHN: ... this morning.

WEST: Sure.

ZAHN: Take care.

WEST: Bye-bye.

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