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CNN Wolf Blitzer Reports
America Strikes Back: U.S. Marines Carry Out Marching Orders in Afghanistan; Guests Discuss Cloning Research
Aired November 26, 2001 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Today on WOLF BLITZER REPORTS, America strikes back. As U.S. Marines carry out their marching orders in Afghanistan, their commander in chief warns of casualties ahead.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEORGE WALKER BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: But this is a dangerous period of time.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: Where is he hiding? We'll take a look at the caves Osama bin Laden may call home. And a possible widening of the war. Is Ira's Saddam Hussein, the next U.S. target.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEORGE WALKER BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: You'll find out.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: We'll take a look as America strikes back.
Their hymn boasts battles from the halls of Montezuma to the shores of Tripoli, and now the U.S. Marines are engaged in combat here in Afghanistan. From Washington, where we'll also be exploring the president's latest warning to Iraq. The former NATO commander will tell us about the dangers facing U.S. troops in this next phase of the struggle. And we'll also talk to an intelligence expert to get some insight into the Taliban strategy. First, the latest developments from Donna Kelley. She's in Atlanta -- Donna.
DONNA KELLEY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Wolf. Thank you. And hello to you this afternoon. Hundreds of U.S. Marines are in Afghanistan for the first time. And they wasted little time in launching their first attack. A Marine spokesman said that U.S. forces destroyed several tanks and armored vehicles and a convoy. And we'll have more on that in just a moment for you.
Five members of an American special operations force were seriously injured by friendly fire. Happened yesterday when U.S. warplanes dropped a bomb near the man during a prison uprising in northern Afghanistan. The Pentagon says that injuries are not life threatening.
Part of the U.S. Marines mission in Afghanistan is to crack down Osama bin Laden, but bin Laden's whereabouts remain unclear. A Northern Alliance official says that he thinks that bin Laden is in the Taliban strong hold of Kandahar. Other reports say that he might be holed up in eastern Afghanistan.
President Bush warns that if Saddam Hussein does not allow weapons inspectors back in the country of Iraq, they could become the next target in the U.S. war on terrorism. Mr. Bush says that the United States will go after states that not only harbor terrorists, but those that develop weapons of mass destruction.
Attorney General John Ashcroft has picked a Washington lawyer to oversee a government compensation fund for September 11th victims and their families. Kenneth Feinberg specializes in mass casualty cases. He will help decide how people apply for money, among other things.
A panel of economists says that the United States is officially in a recession. The National Bureau of Economic Research says that the recession actually started back in March. The panel says a full- blown recession might have been avoided were it not for the September 11th terror attacks.
And back to you, Wolf.
BLITZER: Thank you very much, Donna.
And a major turn today for United States military operations inside Afghanistan. Hundreds of U.S. Marines landed in the country and took part in their first combat action. A Marine spokesman says U.S. forces attacked an armored column from the air in the vicinity of the Marine's new base in southern Afghanistan, destroyed some of the 15 tanks and armored combat vehicles in the column. Spokesman did not say if the convoy belonged to the Taliban.
Earlier today, the Marines established a foothold at an airfield within striking distance of Kandahar, the birthplace of the Taliban and the only remaining city under their control. At a Pentagon briefing earlier today, Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld spelled out the mission of the Marines.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD RUMSFELD, U.S. DEFENSE SECRETARY: Some U.S. Marines are now on the ground in the southern portion of Afghanistan. More are joining them. They are not an occupying force. Their purpose is to establish a forward base of operations to help pressure the Taliban forces in Afghanistan, to prevent Taliban and Al Qaeda terrorists from moving freely about the country.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: Up until now, the only U.S. ground troops in Afghanistan have been a limited number of special operations forces. When the initial Marine deployment is completed, some 1,000 Marines will be there, and they could be joined eventually by many more.
Joining us now to talk about this shift in the war and its many implications, Davis Isby of "Jane's Intelligence Review" and CNN military analyst, former NATO supreme allied commander, retired general Wesley Clark. Let me begin with you, General Clark. The purpose of this Marine operation very precisely is to simply protect that air base or to go out and do actual combat?
GEN. WESLEY CLARK (RET.), FORMER NATO SUPREME COMMANDER: Well, it's to establish a forward operating base, according to what the secretary of defense said today. But it's inherent in that mission that they will expand the perimeter. How far depends on the range of the weapons that they might be confronted with, but ideally, you'd like to have that perimeter cleared out for the range of enemy artillery. And that means a dozen miles, maybe further.
BLITZER: By all accounts, General Clark, the Taliban still have tens of thousands, 10,000, 20,000, 30,000, perhaps troops in and around Kandahar. That seems like the odds are not great for the U.S. Marine Corps who may have a thousand, maybe 1,500 eventually.
CLARK: I'd say the odds are not great for the Taliban in Kandahar because the Marines can call on all the firepower of the United States forces in the area: the land-based air, the B-1, the B-2 bombers, the B-52s. They can call on cruise missile strikes, the F- 18s. And the number of Marines that will eventually be on the ground, a thousand, 2,000 Marines will be adequate to defend the perimeter of the base. Remember, we've got the weather on our side here. You've got largely open terrain in this area, so it's not like Vietnam at all in terms of the enemy being able to sneak up on you. And you've got...
BLITZER: David Isby -- yeah, I just want to bring in David Isby. Excuse me for interrupting, general.
But David, if you know -- you've looked, you've studied where the Taliban are strongest in that Kandahar region. I want to go to our map and just show our viewers once again what we're talking about. All the way here on the southern part of the Afghanistan, Kandahar, the birthplace of the Taliban, almost this entire area up here in the northern part of Afghanistan of course now fully under control of the Northern Alliance, the allies of the U.S. What kind of fortifications strength to the Taliban have in and around Kandahar?
DAVID ISBY, "JANE'S INTELLIGENCE REVIEW": Well, they still have things in and around the city itself, Kandahar International Airport. The Marines are reportedly operating out of an air strip at DeLonghi (ph), which is on the border of Kandahar and Helman Province (ph) near the Helman River, which you see on your map there. So there a ways away from this concentration of Taliban forces, and you could probably see any ground attack or someone who's going to fire off a rocket at the Marines. They'd have to do it without a lot of cover. They certainly do have a lot of forces in the area. How willing to fight they are, that's much harder to say.
David, we've seen Taliban forces collapse elsewhere in the country, but I take it those who are still active in and around Kandahar are the most loyal to the Taliban leadership. Is that right?
ISBY: Some are, some are not. All politics is local, and in Kandahar, local politics tends to be tribal politics. Some tribes are loyal to local Taliban leaders for that reason, while others are opposed to the Taliban leadership for that reason. So we need -- if you're going to try and win people over without fighting, you need to appeal to tribal loyalties in Kandahar.
BLITZER: General Clark, tell us why the central commander, General Tommy Franks, picked the Marines for this mission at the air base outside of Kandahar.
CLARK: Well, the Marines are offshore, and they're an organic combat team. So they've got their own integrated air support. They've got armored vehicles. They've got light infantry. They've got artillery. So they're a cohesive unit. They're just the right kind unit to secure an air base.
BLITZER: Because some problem would have thought the Delta Force or the Rangers, Army personnel, might be better suited. You're suggesting the Marines are perfect for this operation?
CLARK: They are. The Rangers and Delta would be more offensive forces.
BLITZER: Which suggest that this is more of a limited defensive operation. David, is it possible that the Marines are also going to be engaged in the search for Osama bin Laden down south, assuming he's perhaps still in that area?
CLARK: I think that's the whole rationale for seizing an air base in that area. This way, you can have quick reaction to human, to UAV contacts, to intelligence while it's fresh, rapid reaction even if the Afghans are going to be more preoccupied in dealing with their own political issues. So I think this is very important in dealing with a potential hunt for bin Laden in the south up into Uzban province, too.
BLITZER: General Clark, we heard President Bush today once again inform the American public that the possibility of more U.S. casualties, of course, very real out there. How concerned should our viewers in the United States be about U.S. casualties now that a very significant number of ground troops have been engaged in this war?
CLARK: Well, of course, there's a possibility of casualties, and our viewers should be concerned about this. But remember, this is a wartime mission. There have been some 4,000 Americans killed here, and we've got to get the job done. So the mission comes first; it has to. But I know that our commanders on the ground are going to take every means they can to avoid unnecessary casualties.
BLITZER: General Clark, thank you very for joining us.
David Isby, thanks to you as well.
ISBY: Thank you. BLITZER: We always appreciate both of you on our program.
And more assessment of the U.S. Marines on the ground in Afghanistan at 7:00 p.m. Eastern here in our CNN war room. Join me then. You can also participate by going to our Web site, cnn.com/wolf. Click on "Send Questions." I'll try to get as many of those questions answered as possible during our program.
Meanwhile, President Bush today stepped up his verbal war of words with Iraq. The president hinted Saddam Hussein's government just might be the next target in the war against terrorism. Our senator White House correspondent, John King, is covering that story. He joins us now live -- John.
JOHN KING, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, on the one hand, the president said today, first things first, meaning focus on the campaign in Afghanistan. Yet the president himself, as you noted in response to questions from reporters, went on to say, yes, there will be future fronts in this war. And as he considers just what the targets might be, the president himself today went beyond what he outlined in his speech to the Congress at the beginning of this military campaign. In that speech, the president said the U.S. military would strike out against terrorists and those who harbor terrorists. But today, he said he also considered to be a potential target any nation amassing weapons of mass destruction. And he made clear that Saddam Hussein and Iraq were still on that list.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BUSH: Saddam Hussein agreed to allow inspectors in his country in order to prove to the world he's not developing weapons of mass destruction. He ought to let the inspectors back in. Yes?
QUESTION: If he does not do that sir, what will be the consequences? If he does not do that, what will be the consequences?
BUSH: That's for him -- he'll find out.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
KING: Now on the one hand, some senior officials saying it is a good thing to keep Saddam Hussein guessing about just what the United States might do. On the other hand, some saying the president's remarks today more likely to complicate the task of the secretary of state, Colin Powell. Many Arab nations have objected to any targeting of Iraq unless there is firm, concrete evidence linking Baghdad to the September 11th attacks. Administration officials concede they don't have any such evidence. Be interesting to watch the diplomatic fallout in the next day or two -- Wolf.
BLITZER: John, it seemed like when the president had that little informal Q and A session with the reporters earlier today, he was breaking some new ground. But his aides, including Ari Fleischer, the press secretary, quickly seemed to be retreating from any such notion. Is there a struggle going on inside the administration on this very sensitive issue of Iraq? KING: There has been a debate from the outset of this military campaign about whether or not to expand outside of Afghanistan. There are hawks in the administration like the deputy defense secretary, Paul Wolfowitz, Richard Pearl, who is an outside adviser to the Pentagon, a guest on your program from time to time. They are called the bombers by senior administration officials because they advocate a get-tough strategy and moving on to Iraq after Afghanistan. Others like Secretary of State Powell has to do the delicate diplomatic work. They want to take this one step at a tight.
And again, they say there's a continuing case to be made against Saddam Hussein, but in the specific context of this military campaign born of the attacks of September 11th, they argue that it would be a mistake. It would hurt the United States diplomatically to target Iraq unless you had clear and compelling evidence linking Saddam Hussein to those strikes. And administration officials again today conceding, even as the president himself reignited this debate, conceding they don't have that evidence.
BLITZER: John King over at the White House, thank you very much.
And joining us now to talk a little bit more about the situation in Iraq and the overall war against terrorism, the former CIA director, James Woolsey.
Mr. Woolsey, thanks again for joining us. You're one of those so-called bombers. You want to go ahead and bomb the Iraqis.
JAMES WOOLSEY, FORMER CIA DIRECTOR: Well, I like this president's style more every day, Wolf. And I'm glad we elected him rather than those anonymous senior officials who are wringing their hands, sort of like the townspeople in the old movie, "High Noon." The president's playing it like Gary Cooper. Let's get the job done and be a man of few words.
And I think it is not the issue of simply September 11th. Iraq has been involved in terrorism against us for much of the last decade. We know they tried to assassinate former President Bush in the spring of 1993. As the president says, they're development weapons of mass destruction. They're not letting the U.N. inspectors in. And I think there are some indications they were involved in September 11th and possibly the anthrax. But the president keeps broadening this beyond September 11th, and bravo to him.
BLITZER: But you heard John King also say that there's no hard evidence linking the Iraqis to September 11th. And you probably read the editorial in today's "New York Times" warning against precipitous action against the Iraqis. Let me put up on the screen an excerpt: "The world would be a safer place with Mr. Hussein's cruel dictatorship removed. At this point, however, there are no good short-term options for getting rid of him. The Bush administration would make a serious mistake by moving to wage war in Iraq."
WOOLSEY: Even that "New York Times" editorial at its end proposed helping strongly the Iraqi opposition, which some in the government have balked at doing. I don't think it's time, as of a few days after Thanksgiving in 2001, to start launching bombing attacks on Iraq. But I do think there is a strong possibility that their involvement in terrorism, that their involvement in weapons of mass destruction and quite possibly, their involvement with September 11th and maybe the anthrax will provide a rationale that will support going against them. And I think the president is keeping his options open, and he's saying it exactly right. I this we ought to keep listening to what he says rather than to what the hand wringers say.
BLITZER: As you know, some who are urging the U.S., the Bush administration, to take immediate action against Iraq are saying that the model that has been used in Afghanistan could be followed in Iraq, namely, find a friendly bordering country -- in this particular case it was Pakistan, but maybe Turkey could be used as a staging point and then find some local rebels -- Kurds in the north, Shiites in the south. Is that model that was used in Afghanistan something that could be used against Saddam Hussein?
WOOLSEY: In part. I think the Iraqi opposition does have people who are willing to join it, and people already have joined in. I think the Shia (ph) rebellion against Baghdad in the south could come up on the screen if it was given assistance. And certainly in the north, there's a refuge already. But to be fair, I think those forces are not as well structured or as developed as, say, the Northern Alliance was in the Panjur Valley just before the Afghanistan hostility started. So I think there are some things that still need to be done, but I think if we were determined to move against Iraq for any of these reasons or all of these reasons, I think we could make it successful. I do think that Turkey's support would be absolutely vital.
BLITZER: I want to switch gears for a second. There's been a lot of attention focused in the past few days on the CIA's role in Afghanistan, CIA operatives on the ground working with rebels trying to find Osama bin Laden presumably and other Al Qaeda supporters as opposed to the special operations forces. What exactly are the CIA personnel trained to do in a military situation as exists right now in Afghanistan?
WOOLSEY: Well, I imagine some of this has changed since I was director and stepped down in early '95. The CIA has for many years had a military support unit that had some paramilitary capability and was able to train foreign troops to smuggle and instruct in the use of weapons and that kind of thing. Many of these are former military, some (UNINTELLIGIBLE) over from the military, and they're people who have these very important skills. It looks as if we've been building those up in recent years, and I'm delighted to see that. And it looks as if they have been quite effective not only the ground themselves but with this unmanned aerial vehicle which they developed. Actually, the earlier version of it got started in the early '90s when I was director. And that's been a big improvement in some of our earlier capabilities. I think they're doing a very fine job, and bravo. Hats off to them.
BLITZER: And they're getting along with their military counterparts.
WOOLSEY: Looks like they are.
BLITZER: And not always the case in Vietnam, but that's another story.
WOOLSEY: That's an old story.
BLITZER: Don't have time to talk about that right now.
WOOLSEY: Looks better now.
BLITZER: Thanks for joining us, the former CIA director, James Woolsey.
WOOLSEY: Good to be with you.
BLITZER: And for more information on the CIA's role in the war in Afghanistan, go read my online column at cnn.com/wolf. I write one every day. The AOL keyword: CNN.
The cloning debate is reigniting. Scientists did it with Dolly, the sheep. Now in the United States, an unexpected scientific move. We'll have details. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Welcome back. One day after a Massachusetts company announced it had created the first human embryos through cloning, President Bush called the development morally wrong.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BUSH: The use of embryos to clone is wrong. We should not, as a society, grow life to destroy it. And that's exactly what's taking place.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: President Bush voicing a strong opposition to the cloning of human embryos for the purpose of growing organs and tissue, opposition echoed by some members of Congress.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. SAM BROWNBACK (R), KANSAS: And I call on the Senate leadership to bring this bill up to the floor, for us to have a full debate on it., and to pass this legislation to ban human cloning in all its forms -- reproductive, destructive, research and otherwise -- to ban all forms of human cloning.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: The company that cloned the embryo says it's not trying to create an actual baby but rather to get the embryo to a stage where valuable stem cells could be harvested, cells that could then be used to grow vital organs -- a liver, for example --that would be a perfect match for the patient. The list of diseases that could benefit is long, including Parkinson's, cancer, strokes, even AIDS. But even if its work is allowed to proceed, Advanced Cell Technology says it could be 10 years before this cloning technology has any practical applications.
As expected, the latest breakthrough on cloning is raising all sorts of ethical questions. Joining us now from Philadelphia is Glenn McGee. He's editor-in-chief of the "American Journal Of Bioethics."
Glenn, thanks for joining us. And the ethical issues seem pretty clear cut. Those who oppose, for example, abortions, think that this is tampering with human life. As a result, there should be no opportunity to clone human embryos.
GLENN MCGEE, AMERICAN JOURNAL OF BIOETHICS: Well, that's right, Wolf. The debate sounds eerily familiar. This is very much like the debate we were engaged in as a country before the events of September 11th. In fact, I'd say the only thing that's really changed about this controversy is the fact that it comes at a time when our nation is terrified, terrified about anthrax, worried about science conducted in strange ways. I think what's really hit this fairly innocuous publication is the fact it comes at a time when Americans are a little bit suspect about a small company doing embryo cloning in a kind of quiet way and then announcing it in the middle of a war.
BLITZER: And so the debate that's now going to be fought in the U.S. Senate, the House of Representatives, as you know, has already banned any kind of past legislation, banning any kind of human cloning even for these kinds of purposes, therapeutic purposes. The debate in the Senate, is it fair it say it's simply going to pit those who favor abortion as opposed to those who oppose it?
MCGEE: Well, of course, there's some time that has to pass before there can be a debate in the Senate. But I think it is clear that the Senate will be moved. The House, just as the president announced today, the House is very much against cloning of any kind. They've deliberately mixed the discussion of reproductive cloning, that is trying to make a genetic copy of another human being, with this debate about stem cell cloning, something that's already legal and moving ahead in Britain, Israel, Australia and a number of other countries. And by mixing those issues together, the House and the president made it clear they don't want to go any further than the president has already gone on stem cell research. But I don't know whether or not the Senate is going to be willing to move ahead. If they do, it's only going to be because of this fear that's been inspired by the terrible kind of announcement that was made. I mean, really, Americans were completely caught off guard by this science by press release that was announced today.
BLITZER: Well, how would you have done it if these scientists have been working on this latest cloning development involving a human embryo? How would you have made the announcement?
MCGEE: Well, I think there are two fundamental wrongs here. Number one is a big mistake: error on the batter to try to make this announcement before they actually knew what they had. Scientists today have been coming out of the woodwork to say that there's really no science here at all. That is that the publication that Advance Cell Technology announced really only says that they had some cells. It doesn't show that they have an embryo, it doesn't show that this is truly a cloned embryo in any sense, and most importantly, it doesn't show that it will work for stem cell research. So given that they didn't have any of that, what are they doing making this announcement so early in the game?
And the answer that a number of people are making around the country is that this is a situation a number of these companies are in. They're running out of money. And in a time of economic downturn, these tiny companies with just a few million dollars of venture capital, have got to make news. And as terse and crass as that may sound, I think a number of scientists have come to the conclusion that that's where we are.
BLITZER: But in fairness to this group -- and I interviewed Dr. Michael West, CEO of the group that put together this latest development -- they point out that 20 years ago, there was almost an exact debate underway involving in vitro fertilization, and that has basically been ended, that debate. Why not, they say, give them the chance to come up with some cures for Parkinson's or diabetes or heart disease?
MCGEE: Well, that's a good question. But, of course, the fault for the way this debate has been spun rests entirely with Advanced Cell Technology. I mean, had they made their announcement in a major pier review journal, had they timed this in a more careful way so that there'd be an opportunity for scientists and others to reflect on what was going to happen, we wouldn't be talking about it in this sort of hurry-up-and-ban cloning kind of context.
But even setting that aside, I think it's very, very important to note that in those early days of in vitro fertilization, we were talking about reproduction, about making babies in a way that imitated nature. Here, what we're talking about is taking patients who are desperate, in search of cures from stem cell research and sort of holding out the hope that there may be cures soon if we just use this cloning technology when the company has no such plan on the books.
They're just hoping to find a way to produce stem cells to be used in research. It could be years before we see any real therapeutic outcome.
BLITZER: In fact, Dr. West said it could be 10 years. I want to thank you, Glenn McGee, so much for joining us on this whole issue of the ethics of this human cloning.
And up next, who is in charge? Does Osama bin Laden control the Taliban or do the Taliban control bin Laden? First, here's a look at some of the other stories from our news wire. Three teenagers suspected of planning a deadly Columbine-like attack on their Massachusetts high school were arraigned today. The oldest, 17-year- old Eric McKeon (ph), pleaded innocent and was ordered held without bail. The others also pleaded innocent in closed juvenile hearings. More than 40 percent of the school's students didn't show up for class today. And the Japanese ship struck by a U.S. submarine is resting at the bottom of the ocean floor again. The Ehime Maru was allowed to sink in deep water off the coast of Hawaii. It had been towed closer to shore where the bodies of eight of the nine victims were recovered.
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BLITZER: Welcome back. We'll check in with our reporters in Afghanistan in just a moment, but first, the latest developments once again with CNN's Donna Kelley in Atlanta -- Donna.
(NEWSBREAK)
BLITZER: We have three reports for you now on the intensifying U.S. military action in Afghanistan. CNN's Satinder Bindra has the latest on the situation from Kunduz. CNN's Alessio Vinci is in Mazar- e-Sharif with the latest on a bloody prison revolt. But we begin with CNN's Nic Robertson who filed this report from Afghanistan's border with Pakistan.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
NIC ROBERTSON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: A Taliban official crossing out of Afghanistan into Pakistan today said that he was prepared to negotiate with tribal commanders for control of Spinboldyke (ph), the border town just inside Afghanistan just across the border from here in Chaman. He said that at the moment, however, the difference of opinion between the tribal commanders who want to take control of Spinboldyke and the Taliban is too great. What we've have been able to tell on the border here inside Pakistan is that there is an air of uncertainty. People do not know exactly what to expect in the coming days.
We did also talk with truck drivers who have driven the road, the three-hour drive from Kandahar northwest of here to the border. They tell us that they've seen along that road that there are Taliban fighters, that the road appears to be in the control of the Taliban. They report that they have not seen any U.S. troops on that road or any other tribal fighters.
And the reports from our staff and from those drivers coming from Kandahar today say that inside Kandahar, there was some bombing early in the morning, a little in the afternoon, an explosion heard late in the evening, but mostly a fairly quiet day with business. Quiet on the streets. The atmosphere fairly tense, but they said that there was trade still going on in the markets there and that the airport just outside of the city of Kandahar, the international airport there is still, they say, firmly in control of the Taliban at this time.
But the picture emerging from inside Kandahar province, those areas around Kandahar City and towards the border here, Spinboldyke, there is a great deal of concern about what is going to happen in the coming days.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SATINDER BINDRA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: What we are seeing here is large crowds, crowds beginning to celebrate. And I can report from the heart of Kunduz that indeed, it has fallen. The last remaining stronghold of the Taliban in the north is now in Northern Alliance hands.
Just about 45 minutes ago, I was reporting planes from Northern Alliance commanders that they had control of the city. Now I'm here in the city and can verify that large parts of the city are indeed in their control. I haven't been everywhere in the city, though it is possible there are pockets of resistance. But I've been talking to residents here, and they say that last night, indeed, as we were reporting, there was sporadic gunfire about 8:00 this morning. That is exactly four hours ago, Northern Alliance troops established firm control of the city.
Now let me describe what we've seen on the way. We've seen a very heavy presence of Northern Alliance troops. Soldiers are everywhere here in the city. A very festive atmosphere. You can see the butchers hanging their meat outside, and fruit and vegetables vendors are also doing brisk business. I've been talking to the people here. They say this is an occasion of great joy.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ALESSIO VINCI, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I am Alessio Vinci in Mazar-e- Sharif. We have seen the evidence of the friendly fire attack earlier today at the fortress. When we arrived there, several Northern Alliance soldiers told us that about a half hour earlier, a U.S. military jet had struck an area nearby where there were several U.S. soldiers as well as Northern Alliance fighters. A Northern Alliance commander told us that three of his men had been injured as well as many Americans. A Northern Alliance commanders also told us that a U.S. jet had received wrong targeting information from the ground from U.S. military personnel. When we arrived there, we had seen that kind of military personnel leaving the area speedily.
Also, Northern Alliance fighters told us that they were more worried about U.S. bombing than the Taliban fighters inside. Alessio Vinci, CNN, Mazar-e-Sharif.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER: And you can get daily Web dispatches from Alessio Vinci, Satinder Bindra and Nic Robertson and other CNN reporters in the region. Just go to cnn.com, look for the words "On the Scene." The AOL keyword, once again, is CNN.
As the search for Osama bin Laden intensifies, there are questions as to whether he was merely a guest of the Taliban or a controlling force. CNN's Christiane Amanpour reports from Kabul on the paths of influence between bin Laden and the Taliban.
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CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): This was one of Osama bin Laden's main hideaways in the province of Kandahar, according to a defense ministry official now in Kabul. He says it was printed in an Al Qaeda newsletter for Taliban officials. In this corner, the ancient Islamic title, Leader of the Faithful, is bestowed on bin Laden's protector, Mullah Omar. In this corner, it says, quote, "Providing hospitality to Osama bin Laden is no shame."
Other pictures allegedly show how the mountainous refuge was accessed by this trail, and by what looks like a river or irrigation ditch that leads to this carved doorway. From underground, a skylight for ventilation. The official says this is an old print. The hideaway may have been bombed by the U.S. after the 1998 embassy attacks in Africa.
(on-camera): Officials at this security headquarters in Kabul, as well as senior Pakistani officials, tell CNN that far from the Taliban controlling Osama bin Laden, the opposite was true. In recent years, they say, it was Osama bin Laden's philosophy, his money and his mercenaries, that came to heavily influence Mullah Omar and the Taliban hierarchy.
(voice-over): As examples, they point to the decisions to blow up the ancient Bamiyan Buddhas as un-Islamic idols, and to put eight foreign aid workers on trial for allegedly spreading Christianity. Security officials in Kabul say not all the mercenaries who came here were linked to Al Qaeda. Some were just eager to fight with the Taliban. Many of them are now sitting in prison cells in Kabul.
This man is an Afghan who says he worked for the Taliban but switched sides when Kabul fell. He says he was a night watchman at the old Darlaman (ph) palace that the Taliban used as a barracks. The foreign mercenaries were housed in a this building nearby.
"They said they had come here for holy war," he says. "Other than that, the Arabs didn't say much to us."
Further up the road, we saw these so-called scud caves built into the mountains by the Soviets and now littered with ammunition and a ledger full of names of Pakistanis who came to fight and die on a rapidly shrinking battleground. Christiane Amanpour, CNN, Kabul.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER: In less than two weeks, they went from being held in a Taliban jail to being heralded at a White House reception. Their future travel plans take them back to Afghanistan. Stay with us.
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BLITZER: Checking some other stories now from our international news wire. Two U.S. envoys are in Israel on a mission to try to revive the Middle East peace process. Assistant Secretary of State William Burns and retired Marine Corps General Anthony Zinni arrived amid a fresh outbreak of violence. The Palestinian blew himself up at an Israeli checkpoint in Gaza, killing himself and wounding two other police officers.
Security is tight in Bonn, Germany for tomorrow's talks on Afghanistan after the Taliban. The U.N.-sponsored meeting brings together various Afghan factions in a bid to hammer out a broad-based future government. The Taliban were not invited.
The Bonn talks are not expected to be easy, although there is said to be a fair amount of optimism. To look at what shape a new Afghanistan might take, I'm joined now by Professor Rob Sobhani of Georgetown University who specializes in U.S. policy in the Middle East.
Rob, thanks for joining us.
ROB SOBHANI, GEORGETOWN UNIVERSITY: Thank you.
BLITZER: Let's take a look at the makeup of this conference that begins in Bonn tomorrow. We have a little graphic to show our viewers who's involved. There's going to be 28 delegates all together: 11 from the so-called Northern Alliance, the united front, another nine representing the former exiled king, Mohammad Zaher Shah, who's been in Rome for 20, 30 years almost, the Cyprus group and the Peshawar group. The Cyprus group supporting the -- in part by the Iranians. The Peshawar group having close ties to the Pakistanis. It sounds like it could be a mess?
SOBHANI: It could be a mess. However, it could not be, and it could be a positive if the United States makes it very clear that the world community and the United States will stand by the people of Afghanistan if these groups come to an agreement. And this is where it's critically important for us to hold firm and not allow this to degenerate into bickering.
BLITZER: Does the U.S. alone have that capability to unite all these various factions? And forget about the Taliban. They're not even participating, of course.
SOBHANI: I think we do in the sense that the people of Afghanistan have made it very clear they want an end to war. They want to get their lives back on track. And that's why of all the groups that you put on the screen, the Rome process, the group allied to the former king, is the one that the people of Afghanistan are really looking to because of all those groups, the king is the one that they think will provide the most transparency.
BLITZER: Well, why hasn't he gone back to Kabul? The Northern Alliance, the united front, says that the king should play an important political, symbolic role. Why is he still in Rome?
SOBHANI: Because I think he's waiting for some signal from the West, from the U.S. in particular, that we will be there a hundred percent if and when he does go back. He has made his intentions very clear. He does want to go back. He will, I think, at the end be the transitional figurehead in this period, but it's important to make sure that the other groups rally behind him.
BLITZER: The Pashtun are the largest single ethnic group in Afghanistan. Who's representing their interests in this makeup?
SOBHANI: Actually, the king himself is a Pashtun by background. He's from the Durhani (ph) tribe which is the majority of the Pashtuns. However, within Zaher Shah's delegation, there are also representatives of the Tajiks, of the Hazaras (ph) and the Uzbeks. By the way, his delegations are actually represented by the Uzbeks.
BLITZER: And there are some women in that delegation as well.
SOBHANI: Absolutely. And that's why it's critically important that we support the monarch in this process, because he once again, of all the factions, will carve out a role for the women of Afghanistan who had a role, by the way, when he was monarchy.
BLITZER: We know the Pakistanis have expressed support for the king to play an important role in Pakistan. What about the Iranians? They seem to be intimately involved as well.
SOBHANI: The Iranians are very nervous. They're very nervous because they do not want the return of Mohammad Zaher Shah. That's why they have the Cyprus group there. They are the proxy of Iran. To the extent that Mohammad Zaher Shah goes back to Afghanistan in whatever capacity, it revives the image and the history of a former monarchy in Iran as well and that's what makes the Iranians nervous.
BLITZER: Obviously, nobody wants in Iran among the leadership any indication that Shah Iran could be coming be back there as well.
SOBHANI: Precisely.
BLITZER: Obviously, one of the sticking points.
SOBHANI: Very nervous for them.
BLITZER: We could go on and talk about the politics of this meeting in Bonn, but we'll have you back.
SOBHANI: Absolutely.
BLITZER: Thanks very much, Rob, for joining us.
Tonight, by the way, on "Larry King Live," Larry will talk to the secretary of state, Colin Powell, who says Saddam Hussein should be paying close attention to today's warnings from President Bush.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
COLIN POWELL, U.S. SECRETARY OF STATE: I think he should see it as a very sober, chilling message: "He'll find out." There are many options available to the international community and to the president.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: That exclusive interview once again tonight at 9:00 p.m. Eastern, 6:00 Central.
We'll look at the obstacles the government faces in bailing out the U.S. economy, but first, the stories hitting our news wire.
There's a new hurricane blowing through the Atlantic today just days before the end of the hurricane season. Olga is the 15th named storm of the season. Right now, the storm is east of Bermuda. Experts say its winds could batter the East Coast of the U.S. and parts of the Caribbean.
Winter has arrived in parts of the West and central United States. Nearly a foot of snow is expected in three states today. The snow closed schools in parts of Minnesota, Nebraska and South Dakota. People going home after the Thanksgiving holiday were delayed by up to two feet of snow in California's Sierra Nevada range.
For more on severe weather, here's CNN meteorologist Karen Maginnis. She joins us -- Karen
KAREN MAGINNIS, CNN METEOROLOGIST: Hey, Wolf. We do have a full plate in the weather picture. A deep area of low pressure is making its way across the Midwest. You can see on the northern edge and on the backside of that area of low pressure, we have snow. Boy, it's really interrupting folks trying to get around.
However, to the south, it's a little more violate and definitely doesn't look like wintertime. We're looking at a weather situation that resembles more like springtime weather than something that looks like winter is on its way.
Anyway, we've got the leading edge of cooler air. Behind it, it is much colder, it is windy. So we're in the warm sector of this storm. Temperatures here are running way above normal. We had readings that were at record-setting levels across North Carolina, readings in the 70s and thje 80s.
Take a look at our weather watch. And we have three tornado watches now primarily through the ArklaTex (ph) extending on over towards Mississippi. Now some of the preliminary information that we're receiving, some of the tops on these thunderstorms up around 50,000 feet. Certainly have the capability of producing heavy downpours, lightening and tornadic activity when you get that clash of air masses. And take a look at this. Little rock, 57. We go ahead of the frontal system. We've got temperatures in the 70s. You get a clash of air masses like that, and you will see violent weather. Doesn't matter what time of year it is.
So ahead of this weather system where the temperatures are very mild, that's where we're looking at the potential for the tornadic activity. But you head up towards Minnesota and the Dakotas where it was really snowing to beat the band. Temperatures here. These are not windchill factors. We've got teens and 20s currently.
CNN's "Wolf Blitzer Reports" will continue right after this.
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BLITZER: Welcome back. A leading economic authority says the U.S. economy has been in a recession since last spring. In response, President Bush urged Congress to act on an economic stimulus package. The National Bureau of Economic Research says the recession began in March ending 10 years of economic expansion. The group says after the September 11th attacks, the contraction of the economy "clearly deepened."
Even with the president's urging, an economic package coming out of Congress may be a long time in the coming. CNN senior political analyst Bill Schneider examines why that issue is under the radar scope and won't get prompt attention from lawmakers.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BILL SCHNEIDER, CNN SR. POLITICAL ANALYST (voice-over): You say the country needs an economic stimulus bill? Congress is on it. But it's been happening under the radar of press and public attention, and that's made a big difference.
ROBERT MCINTYRE, DIRECTOR, CITIZENS FOR TAX JUSTICE: All of a sudden, the corporate lobbyists sensed an opportunity. They persuaded the leadership in the House and this -- what was going to be a $50 billion or $60 billion help for those who were hurt became a $212 billion corporate tax break.
SCHNEIDER: It's been a bonanza for corporate lobbyists.
JAMES ALBERTINE, PRES., AMERICAN LEAGUE OF LOBBYISTS: And it provides a wonderful opportunity for lobbyists for a variety of interests to get their issues addressed.
SCHNEIDER: Which is exactly what the House of Representatives did last month by a narrow majority. The House passed a bill full of corporate tax breaks like faster tax write-offs for buying new equipment and big refunds for minimum corporate taxes paid since 1986. Business claims the tax cuts will create new jobs. Treasury Secretary Paul O'Neill called the House bill "show business," a payoff to big contributors. But then President Bush signed onto it. That made it serious business.
BUSH: We believe the best way to stimulate and restore confidence to the economy is not through additional spending but through tax relief.
SCHNEIDER: For business? Well, yes.
ALBERTINE: Business will say that they need the money, that cash is king, and in a time of recession, you need cash.
SCHNEIDER: Unemployed workers need that cash more, say Senate Democrats, who are holding fast against the House bill. Lobbyists want their tax breaks now before it's too late.
ALBERTINE: The budget numbers will come out, and next year is an election year, and there will be a lot of other things on the plate. So the fear is that, you know, let's get this thing done right now.
SCHNEIDER: What can opponents do? MCINTYRE: It's just a question of getting the public to pay attention for a few minutes here, and I think we will.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SCHNEIDER: The recession does put the issue under radar screen, but President Bush is using that attention to pressure Congress for a deal that will preserve most of those corporate tax cuts, not because the tax cuts are popular, because the president himself is popular.
BLITZER: There is a certain nuance of a difference, though, between the House Republicans who want a retroactive corporate tax cut minimum tax returns going back to, what. '86, that could cost $7 billion, $8 billion dollars, where as the president yesterday interviewed the treasury secretary, Paul O'Neill, who said that was a House Republican initiative, not necessarily something coming from the White House. So there seems to be some wiggle room there.
SCHNEIDER: There is some wiggle room. And, of course, most of the deal making will be between the Senate Democrats and the House Republicans. It's very likely that that sort of retroactive tax cut going back 15 years is likely to go by the boards. But the president is hoping to preserve most of what's in that House bill in the deal with the Senate. The Senate Democrats are very nervous. They're going to be forced to make a deal that's going to keep most of what's in that House bill.
BLITZER: But they'll need 60 votes to break a filibuster, the Republicans. Will they be able to get those 60 votes?
SCHNEIDER: That could be very tough. And you know what the lobbyists told me today? They said they are hopeful but they're not optimistic that anything is going to pass. And In their view, if it doesn't pass this year, there's not much chance of anything this big happening next year. That's why those lobbyists are so desperate to get something happening before Congress goes home for the holidays.
BLITZER: And as Republicans like to say, "We're hearing a lot of the traditional class warfare rhetoric going on.
SCHNEIDER: That's right. That's what they accuse Senate Democrats of doing. Senate Democrats are saying, "Wait a minute. What the Republicans are talking about is trickle-down economics. That's never worked before." They're saying, "We want to give the cash to the people who need the money. Let them generate demand by spending the money." And that will put business back on its feet.
BLITZER: Bill Schneider always helping us understand a complex situation. Thank you very much.
SCHNEIDER: Sure.
BLITZER: Lou Dobbs is coming up right after this show. He's standing by now with a little preview.
Lou, I hope you had a nice Thanksgiving. LOU DOBBS: Very nice indeed, Wolf. You, too.
Coming up next on "Moneyline," U.S. Marines tonight are intensifying their efforts to find Osama bin Laden. We'll have a live report for you from Kabul, the very latest. And I'll be joined by former secretary of defense, Caspar Weinberger, who will give us his perspective on this war against terrorism.
And one report confirming what many of us already knew. The economy is in recession. I'll be talking with economist, Lachsman Afathan (ph). All of that and a lot more at the top of the hour. Wolf Blitzer will be right back after the break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Two freed aid workers met with President Bush today at the White House. Both saying they're proud to be Americans. Heather Mercer and Dayna Curry were held captive by the Taliban for three months, gaining their freedom when the Afghan capital of Kabul fell. The two were part of a group of international workers the Taliban charged with trying to teach Christianity.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DAYNA CURRY, FREED AMERICAN AID WORKER: I think we're both in a process of decision making right now with all the emotions. We're not going to make any big decisions. But I think in both of our hearts, we would love to continue serving the Afghan people and even going back to Afghanistan now that it's free and there's more openness to work with the women and children there than ever before.
HEATHER MERCER, FREED AMERICAN AID WORKER: I mean, really, I think the heroes in all of this are the Afghan people themselves who stood under great oppression for so many years yet their spirit is not broken. And then the American people and all the people around the world who prayed for us, they're the heroes.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER: Good for them. I'll be back in one hour with the "CNN WAR ROOM." My guests will talk about the U.S. Marines on the ground in Afghanistan. They'll also be taking your e-mail questions. Until then, thanks very much for watching. I'm Wolf Blitzer in Washington. CNN's coverage of America's new war continues with "LOU DOBBS MONEYLINE." That begins right now.
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