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American Morning
Richard Butler's Comments on CIA's Role in Afghanistan
Aired November 29, 2001 - 07:32 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: As we've been telling you this morning, a CIA agent has become the first combat death in the war against terrorism. The Intelligence Agency appears to be playing a very prominent, unprecedented role in this conflict.
For his view, we turn once again to our ambassador in residence, former United Nations weapons chief inspector, ambassador-at-large Richard Butler of the Council on Foreign Relations, welcome back.
RICHARD BUTLER, FORMER CHIEF U.N. WEAPONS INSPECTOR: Good morning, Paula.
ZAHN: What is the significance of the death of Michael Spann of the CIA?
BUTLER: It is -- well, it is significant in that we've waged this war without any significant loss until now. Remarkable when you think about it, such an important battle and we've lost almost no one. But yesterday, day before, we lost one person, and I find it really important that he was a CIA officer.
ZAHN: And not a Marine or a special ops officer?
BUTLER: Yes, well why do I find that important? One of the things that we have lacked in the Middle East, in Iraq and elsewhere, and obviously in Afghanistan, is what is called humint, human intelligence, and that's harmed our interests. And he was an officer from the Central Intelligence Agency gathering human intelligence and he lost his life.
ZAHN: And interesting that you should say that...
BUTLER: (UNINTELLIGIBLE) said but very important that he was there.
ZAHN: ... because there has been some commentary that the CIA has provided much more information than was expected on Michael's tragic death. And is it to prove the point once again, besides obviously the (UNINTELLIGIBLE) human lose, that there is an increasing emphasis on human intelligence?
BUTLER: Yes, and that's important. We have two ways of gathering intelligence on those who want to harm us, those who are doing bad things. One is in the sky with satellites and overhead surveillance and also listening to telephone calls, which was very important with respect to Osama bin Laden and al Qaeda because we did hear radio and telephone messages around September 11 which helped pin down that they were responsible for this.
But, Paula, there is no substitute for human intelligence. People on the ground speaking with other people, looking at the reality that they see around them, talking in the market place, finding out hard facts, and Mr. Spann was doing that and he lost his life doing it. We lament that. He was a patriot, obviously. We need more of it if we are to win this battle against terrorism and do the right things. We need more human intelligence and, you know, God bless him.
ZAHN: Yes, it was -- it was horrible to have to hear his father speak with reporters (UNINTELLIGIBLE).
BUTLER: His father was great I thought.
ZAHN: Yes, he was really terrific.
Moving on to the broader war on terrorism, we talked earlier this week a lot about the president's veiled threat against Iraq.
BUTLER: Right.
ZAHN: Now yesterday, it seems to me that there was even more reaction from potential allies that heard this news and said whoa, wait a minute, what are you talking about here?
BUTLER: Well you're dead right. As we discussed two days ago, the president's one-liner was a bit imprecise, but the switchboards around the world lit up. I can't tell you how many calls I got from people saying will you comment on this. But what is now much more important than that is that our key allies have said be careful, Iraq is a very different proposition.
In particular, I would call attention to the Chancellor of Germany, Gerhard Schroeder. Remember this, a little while ago he put his government on the line. He put a vote of confidence or no confidence in his government in the Bundestag, that's the German Parliament, on the issue of sending 3,500 German troops to help us in Afghanistan. First time in 50 years that Germany would have done that. He won that vote. He risked everything to support us against terrorism. But yesterday, he said to the president of the United States, be careful about Iraq, you might blow away the coalition, you might cause something very large and very difficult that we would not be able to swallow.
ZAHN: Well that...
BUTLER: And that was really quite important I thought.
ZAHN: And that certainly adds to the chorus of the other very critical voices...
BUTLER: Yes. So we've got to... ZAHN: ... in the sea of potential nations that are on the U.S.' side.
BUTLER: Yes, we have to hasten slowly here I think.
ZAHN: Ambassador Butler, thanks for your time this morning.
BUTLER: Good to see you.
ZAHN: See you same time, same place Friday morning.
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