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Lou Dobbs Moneyline
Dow Advances 220.45 to 10,114.29; Nasdaq Advances 83.74 to 2,046.84
Aired December 05, 2001 - 18:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
LOU DOBBS, CNN ANCHOR: Good evening, everyone. A deadly bombing accident costs America lives and casualties. And more intense fighting is under way tonight in Kandahar. Tonight, the Pentagon is investigating a bombing accident in Afghanistan. Three U.S. soldiers were killed, 19 others were wounded. We'll have a live report for you.
Also, U.S. airstrikes and ground attacks continue in Afghanistan. More al Qaeda leaders have reportedly been killed in those attacks. We'll be joined tonight by former Defense Secretary William Cohen, a MONEYLINE regular contributor. And the powerful chairman of the House Ways and Means Committee will also be here. Congressman Bill Thomas will update the progress on the economic stimulus package that Congress has been wrestling with now for two months.
And in a surprising shocking move, Gerald Levin says he will retire as the head of AOL TIME WARNER. Tonight, we will have an exclusive interview with Gerald Levin.
On Wall Street, we can tell you, it was another huge stock market day. A big rally, the Dow Jones Industrials in fact, closing at the highest level in three months. The Nasdaq closing at a four-month high. The Dow above 10,000 and the Nasdaq above 2,000.
As we reported, the Pentagon tonight is looking into an accidental bombing in Afghanistan. That bombing killed three American soldiers and injured 19 others. The incident occurred when a 2,000- pound satellite-guided smart bomb exploded north of Kandahar. The Pentagon says U.S. forces on the ground were receiving fire from Taliban fighters and had called for air support.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REAR ADM. JOHN STUFFLEBEEM, PENTAGON SPOKESMAN: As a pilot, I can do everything perfectly with a perfect weapons system and still cannot account for every weapon going exactly where it's supposed to go. And that's just a fact of unfortunate life here in this case.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
DOBBS: U.S. warplanes dropped heavy bombs on cave and tunnel complexes near Tora Bora. That's where al Qaeda and Taliban leaders are suspected of hiding. The planes were complemented by mujahideen tanks on the ground which met with tough resistance from the al Qaeda fighters. The Pentagon says U.S. jets and bombers continue to blast Taliban buildings and facilities tonight around Kandahar. Thousands of al Qaeda and Taliban fighters are still holed up there.
In Germany, Afghan delegates have signed an agreement to set up an interim government. Pashtun leader, Hamid Karzai (ph) , will head the 29-member government for six months until a tribal council meets to set up a permanent government for Afghanistan.
For more on the intense ground fighting in Afghanistan, we're joined by Nic Robertson, who's in Chaman (ph) near the Afghan- Pakistani border Nic.
NIC ROBERTSON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Lou, that intense bombing has spread out not only around Kandahar City, but around Kandahar province. We can see and hear the bombing just a few miles away across the border overnight tonight. Bombs were falling in and around the border town of Spin Boldak. The intense bombing around Kandahar also, we are told, focusing on the airport.
Local tribal commanders here tell us they pulled back their forces from the airport where they have been engaged directly with Taliban for control of the airport. They say they have pulled back their forces from around the airport, so the airport could be more heavily bombed.
The errant bomb that fell, killing three American servicemen and injuring 19 others also killing five Afghan fighters with them, fell just to the north of Kandahar. Now the forces fighting the Taliban to the north of Kandahar belong to a Populzai (ph) of Hamed Halzai (ph) . He is now the interim head of the interim government of Afghanistan.
The injured U.S. servicemen were taken by Marine helicopters to the Marine base some 60 miles southwest of Kandahar. From there the injured U.S. service personnel were taken by C-130 aircraft to other medical facilities in the region. The Afghan fighters who were taken there for treatment were treated at that air base.
About 350 further north is Tora Bora, close to the eastern Afghan city of Jalalabad, and there thousands of mujahedeen fighters joined in a ground campaign led by U.S.-led air bombing around the suspected hideout of al Qaeda and possibly also Osama bin Laden.
Now there are no hard confirmed reports that Osama bin Laden is in that mountain cave area complex, but certainly those mujahadin forces on the ground reporting in some places meeting stiff resistance from al Qaeda fighters -- Lou.
DOBBS: Nic, reports that a number of al Qaeda leaders have been either killed or injured in those attacks. Have we been able to confirm any of that?
ROBERTSON: Lou, it appears that at this time that these are still unconfirmed reports. The forces on the ground have not yet been able to gain access to this cave complex system. They say that they are meeting stiff resistance in some areas. Also, some of the mujahedeen commanders on the ground are concerned about moving their ground forces too far forward into the bombing zone. Their concern is that they may risk being hit by bombs while the cave complex is being bombed.
So, it appears at this time that confirmation on exactly who's been killed or injured in that cave complex will to have wait until the mujahedeen fighters gain closer access into the system -- Lou.
DOBBS: Nic, obviously, the opposition forces have been working diligently to work out a negotiation with the Taliban who remain in Kandahar. The fighting seems to be escalating. Can you give us an sense of likelihood of a successful negotiation that would reduce further the prospect of fighting there?
ROBERTSON: Negotiations had really been under way before the latest ground offensive to oust the Taliban from Kandahar. Those negotiations began over a week ago. One of principle people doing the negotiations is the new head of Afghanistan's interim government, Hamed Harzai. He was negotiating with a very senior Taliban commander, Commander Uzmani (ph) , who commands all the Taliban forces, or did command all the Taliban forces in the Kandahar region.
There were expectations from these tribal leaders that the Taliban would -- at least this commander -- would remove a lot of his forces. But what we've seen happen, Lou, is that the fighting has intensified around Kandahar, that the Taliban have not surrendered any territory, given up fighting, let any of their troops go in large number. And it appears that there is now a much longer, a much more drawn out battle than the tribal leaders would have thought.
There are divisions within the tribes here. Some tribes only want a negotiated solution with the Taliban. Others tribes, of course, are just pushing on the military front and are happy just to have a military solution that finishes off the Taliban and ousts them militarily.
But it appears that it is now a much longer military campaign. Negotiations do not appear to be working at this time, Lou.
DOBBS: Nic, thank you very much. Nic Robertson reporting from Chiman.
Former Defense Secretary, regular MONEYLINE contributor William Cohen joins us now. Bill, good to have you here.
WILLIAM COHEN, FORMER DEFENSE SECRETARY: Lou.
DOBBS: Let's begin with the terrible incident in which three U.S. soldiers were killed in an accident where U.S. forces were bombing north of Kandahar. Your thoughts?
COHEN: As we all know, war is very dangerous and deadly. And this can happen and does happen from time to time. Even during our preparation for warfare we loose many people. But this was somewhat unusual. As I understand it, they were dropping what they call, JDAMS, Joint Direct Attack Munition, which are satellite guided and usually they land within a foot or two.
DOBBS: Smart bombs.
COHEN: Smart bomb. And we've had tremendous success both in Kosovo and in Afghanistan with this weapon system.
DOBBS: In an investigation obviously underway by the Pentagon into precisely what happened here, will we be likely to hear some critics say we're using too much technology here? Do you think that is a prospect?
COHEN: No, I don't think that's a prospect at all. That technology is serving us very well. We have seen a systematic reduction in the capability of the Taliban and just in the last few days we have seen just how quickly the Taliban had fallen up to this point. So, I think the weapons system we are using are the right ones and we are doing it just the right way.
DOBBS: As Nic Robertson just reported, the fighting intensifying in Kandahar. It looks as though there will be a military solution, a full-out elimination of the Taliban forces within Kandahar. We now have a leader for Afghanistan in Hamin Karzai. Your reaction.
COHEN: I think the bombing will intensify. We're now getting down to the very hard-core resistance fighters of the Taliban or the al Qaeda. So, I would expect the bombing to intensify and to do as much damage as possible to allow the ground forces to then start taking the campaign to the Taliban on the ground.
DOBBS: President Bush has said that some of the forces' raid against the Taliban and al Qaeda in Afghanistan could well be used against other targets outside of Afghanistan. Give us your interpretation of what the president might mean?
COHEN: I think the president is going to try and build on the current success. First I think the job has to be completed in Afghanistan before we move to other areas. But them I think it is important that we take on those areas that will result in a successful campaign and keep the momentum going.
Obviously he is looking at al Qaeda operations in other countries. I know a lot of speculation about Iraq. I think that's premature as we talked about before, but we have already started that. You notice other countries are rolling up some of the cells and that effort to go beyond where we were today is under way.
Militarily I think that you're looking at Sudan, possibly Somalia and perhaps the Philippines, other countries.
DOBBS: And Israel making it very clear that in their assessment, they believe Iraq has been supporting hamas and the suicide bombers, which cost 28 live over the weekend. Does that also suggest another target? COHEN: Again, I think that's premature. I think what we have to build a consensus and a coalition and the last thing we need at this point is to start splitting off that coalition and looking as if we are going to go at it unilaterally.
I think it is important the president hold the coalition together as long as possible. If we have to go after Iraq at some time in the future alone, so be it. But right now, I think it is important that we are steady as we go.
DOBBS: Although the president has said that the mission will define the coalition, not vice versa.
COHEN: That's true. On the other hand, you do want to have a coalition. So, it's important that we make sure we do what we can to hold on to the key elements of a future campaign. Going it alone sounds great, it is more difficult as any military planner will tell you, in that region in particular. .
DOBBS: Bill Cohen, as always, thank you.
COHEN: Thanks, Lou.
DOBBS: More violence to report tonight in the Middle East. A suicide bomber blew himself up outside the entrance of a luxury hotel in Jerusalem. Only the bomber was killed in the explosion. Six people who were nearby were slightly injured. The Islamic jihad apparently sent a fax to news agencies claiming responsibility.
A string of suicide attacks in Israel over the weekend killed 28 people and wounded dozens of others. That led to sharp international criticism of Yasser Arafat. In response, Israeli war planes struck Palestinian targets over the past two days, including Yasser Arafat's headquarters in the West Bank, and destroyed three of his helicopters.
The terrorist organization Hamas took responsibility for those attacks. Now its founder is under Palestinian house arrest; 65-year- old Sheikh Ahmed Yassin (ph) has been barred from outside contacts, and there are Palestinian security guards stationed around his house.
Coming up next, Congress moves closer to a deal on an economic stimulus package. We'll be joined by Congressman Bill Thomas, the chairman of the House Ways and Means Committee. And on the fifth anniversary of Alan Greenspan's irrational exuberance speech, exuberance about the economy and recovery and even technology sent the Dow and Nasdaq to levels not seen in months. We'll have that story for you.
And the man who has headed the world's largest media company for the past decade is retiring. We will have an exclusive interview next.
ANNOUNCER: Coming up: Lou speaks with the big boss. AOL-TIME WARNER CEO Jerry Levin.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) DOBBS: The announcement came as a surprise to just about everyone. Gerald Levin this morning saying that he will retire as the chief executive officer of AOL-TIME WARNER, the parent of this network, in May, also the world's largest media company. Levin has led TIME WARNER for a decade.
He helped engineer its merger with AOL, the biggest media merger ever, and Peter Viles has the story.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
PETER VILES, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Soft spoken and rumpled, he has been the least likely media mogul of his time. And when he announced this morning that his time is up, he caught Wall Street completely off guard.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, the general feeling is surprise.
JESSICA REIF COHEN, MERRILL LYNCH: Our opinion is that this is a big loss for the company. While they still have great management in place and great assets and great brands, Jerry was critical in making the company when it is. And he's brilliant. It has to be a loll for the company.
VILES: There is no indication Jerry Levin was pushed out. Every indication he is living on his own terms. Steve Case will remain as chairman. Levin's long-time protege, Dick Parsons, will be CEO, and Bob Pitman, once seen as Levin's potential successor, will be sole chief operating officer.
TOM WOLZIEN, SANFORD C. BERNSTEIN: Dick places a terrific external face on the company. He's very well wired in Washington. He is a great problem solver for political issues and inter company -- or issues with other companies, the types of things that a CEO of a huge company has to be. On the other hand, Bob Pitman is probably the best marketer and best operating guy in the world.
VILES: Levin has been a visionary and a survivor. He built HBO, the blueprint for pay television, survived when he bet too soon on interactive TV and engineered not one, but three transforming mergers, TIME INC. and WARNER BROS. TIME WARNER and Turner Broadcasting, then the biggest of all, TIME-WARNER and AOL.
In retiring ahead of schedule, he cited a clause put into his contract after the murder of his son in 97 that allows him to retire at any time.
"I felt that once my work was completed and I was satisfied with the company's direction and progress," he said, "I'd invoke that provision and turn my full energies to the moral and social issues I feel so passionate about. That time has arrived."
(END VIDEOTAPE)
We often say that Wall Street does not like surprises, and this was clearly a big surprise, but investors took it in stride. Even gave it a thumbs-up. AOL TIME-WARNER shares gained $1.08 today in a very strong market -- Lou.
DOBBS: A very strong market indeed, Pete. Thank you. Peter Viles.
Gerald Levine joins us now.
Jerry, good to have you here.
DOBBS: I can't recall a resignation, an announcement of retirement that caught everyone by greater surprise than yours did this morning. How long have you been thinking about it?
JERRY LEVIN, CEO, AOL TIME-WARNER: Of course, timing is everything. I've been thinking about this for some time. As Peter said in his piece, this is intensely personal to me. This is something that appeared in the proxy a provision of my contract, but I put it in because I wanted to pull this trigger at my option when I thought that the company was ready. DOBBS: The company has meant a lot of different things and had many different iterations over the course of your career. It goes back to HBO, and...
LEVIN: Only 30 years.
DOBBS: Only 30 years, but Chuck Dolan, one of the pioneers along with you, satellite programming. The TIME WARNER merger itself, of which I think everyone pretty well understands now, though it was not so clear to some at the time, were you the principle architect, the TBS acquisition.
LEVIN: Yes, that's how we got you, Lou.
DOBBS: And it was a wonderful deal on all account. I'm sure you would agree. I won't ask you to validate that. But the fact is, it's been a remarkable career. In the early '90s you had more than your share of critics on Wall Street. Yet when one looks back over what you've accomplished, it's remarkable. How do you feel?
LEVIN: Obviously I feel terrific today because in Dick Parsons and Bob Pitman we have a wonderful team. The chemistry is there. I have known them for so long. I feel my values are imprinted on them and within the company. I've always been a risk-taker and done things against the tide.
This is another risk. Because I am giving up this wonderful platform that's enabled me to speak out and do what I want to do. But at the same time I need to find out, people should understand I'm not just a CEO corporate person. I am a real human being. I have strong feelings about things. There's a creative side to me that you would never know because I'm a suit, and you know, I engage in corporatespeak.
DOBBS: A suit but without a tie.
LEVIN: That's the new me. But really, it's -- most people -- most of my adult life that is the categorization of me, and I want to reclaim my individuality. When I know -- and there is also a kind of a succession 101 here. You should leave when you know your new leadership is ready to fly. DOBBS: I think that Wall Street today certainly is saying that the management team is in place. Nearly everyone I know likes, without question, Dick Parsons, Bob Pitman, certainly Wayne Paige, your new CFO.
LEVIN: Yes, we have Steve Case who is a visionary. This, for me, everybody is in the right place now. And it's an extraordinary group of people that compliment each other. No one person can run a corporation like this, not only of its size, but its depth and range.
DOBBS: Because I've had the opportunity to work for you...
LEVIN: With me, Lou.
DOBBS: Let's be honest, Jerry, I work for you, and it's been a pleasure to have your tone in which we are working with you. But the fact is, I've seen you make some decisions, tough decisions. I've seen you work with, and I will tell you, I takes a much cognizance of those who criticize you as those who praise you, but the fact is, I have seen you personally make additions that required a steel spine, and when you were pretty much alone in your judgment and proved right.
The test on Wall Street ultimately is the stock price. Where do you think it goes, and how do you feel about a stock price which is off its 52-week high?
LEVIN: No, I'm not happy with the stock price. I do recognize that we're in an extraordinary period now, not only in business, but for our nation and the world. And you have to take that into account. These may be permanent changes. But I know that we have in place, not only the asset base, but the kind of growth businesses where we are reinventing all of these businesses and it may not be fully appreciated now, but it absolutely will be. I'm confident about that. We are changing the way the movie business is marketed and distributed, the same thing with music.
I think people have been deceived by the so-called dot-com bust and by the advertising depression. And in fact, what we have is a kind of set of businesses that are really being restructured in a world of convergence. It will be understood at a time when the growth is fully realized.
DOBBS: To help us better understand much of that, we'd like you to join us after we get through with this commercial break, as we continue to drive earnings at AOL TIME WARNER almost singlehandedly, we'll be back with Gerald Levin in just a moment.
We'll also have for you, in just a moment, the latest on the war against terrorism. U.S. warplanes are continuing tonight to pound Taliban hideouts in the Tora Bora area. And, congressional leaders are promising an economic stimulus package soon. We'll have a progress report from the man in charge, the powerful chairman of the House Ways and Means Committee, next here in MONEYLINE. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: We continue now with Gerald Levin, CEO of AOL TIME WARNER, the parent of CNN, announcing his retirement today. Jerry, I think back over some of your history and the history of this company. You've got "Harry Potter" now, a tremendous success, a number of other releases in...
LEVIN: "Oceans 11" and "Lord of the Rings."
DOBBS: You're as shameless as Michael Eisner sitting here and promoting product.
A lot of great things happening. But AOL itself, you mentioned the dot-com era, AOL, I've heard a number of people say, my gosh, how in the world did AOL buy TIME WARNER? And if it had occurred six months or a year later it would have worked the other way. How do you feel?
LEVIN: I feel really good. First of all, the form of the transaction was put as an acquisition that was an accounting formula was actually a merger. What I found today, as opposed to when we made the announcement, that the value of the AOL infrastructure is greater than I thought as a form of not only communication and information, but a form of transactions and subscription, and in fact, the growth rate, whether it relates to narrow band hook-ups or broad-band access and now international growth, particularly at AOL Europe.
For example, this past week the average AOL consumer used the service 70 minutes a day. That means it is built into the habit structure. This is the kind of business I understand. It is all based on usage and subscription.
DOBBS: And to tell-cos have even got to like that business.
LEVIN: Yes...
DOBBS: And speaking of broadband, AT&T wireless and their cable systems, you along with two other companies bidding hard. Who'll prevail? LEVIN: We have made a submission. And I think we'll now see what the next step is. We have a seat at the table because of a lot of interesting relationships, including a partnership at TWE Partnership. I can't make any prognosis for you, Lou, but...
DOBBS: And Microsoft seems to like two other horses in this race.
LEVIN: This I don't understand. There's a certain paranoia that I think is probably not justified.
DOBBS: I can remember when you and Bill Gates were bosom buddies.
LEVIN: Absolutely. And Bill does a lot of good things. But you know, I think there is this jockeying for position which is not surprising in our marketplace. But I feel very comfortable with the consumer touch that our company has. And we're essentially all about media convergence. DOBBS: Jerry, it was shortly after the death of your son, you started talking about, and correct me if I construct this wrongly, you started talking about values within TIME WARNER then, and you started talking about this organization being known as a world class values- driven -- blue-chip -- values-driven growth company. Have you succeeded in that mission? .
LEVIN: I think people are conscious of the fact that companies, while they operate in the interest of shareholders, have to play a public policy role. They -- and particularly at this time, after September 11. And this time of terror, we have, you have an obligation to provide insight and understanding. We have an obligation to provide for security, psychological and physical, of our people.
We have to rise above our narrow parochial interest. So, have I succeeded? Probably not. On the other hand, I think, as I talk to other CEOs, including today, there's a sense that people want to know that their company stands for something, that when they come to work there's meaning. That they don't just get meaning outside their company. I think that's so important, and therefore I believe I'm leaving these values imprinted on my company.
DOBBS: You won't be retiring until the shareholders meeting in May. Have you thought definitively about what you will do once you do step down? LEVIN: I won't say definitively. Obviously, I want to continue to speak out on moral and social issues. You wouldn't know this, I'm not a suit anymore. There's a creative side. I want people to understand there's a real human being here. I am not and shouldn't be identified because I am the CEO of the world's largest media and entertainment company. I want to reclaim that individuality and do something that is socially significant but also creative. And I'll leave it at that. There is a real human being locked inside here and you know, I want the poetry back in my life.
DOBBS: Do you feel you've had to sacrifice that in your career?
LEVIN: I think when you're a CEO, for example, since September the 11, my emotions have been wrapped up for the 92,000 people at AOL Time Warner, for the families of the tragedy, these victims, for the families of our shareholders.
You know, there's an emotional part of this, an emotional component, that's very significant. And you carry it around 24 hours a day. And it's not that I want to be freed from that, but I want people to understand that that's the assignment that you take on. And I'd like to return to civilian status.
DOBBS: Well, you're taking out of -- I would say, civilian status, but certainly elevating a man, Dick Parsons, choosing him to succeed you. What was the determinant in choosing him?
LEVIN: Well, values. And one other thing, that I wanted a team. And Dick and Bob Goodman with Steve Case as an active chairman, that's the team that I wanted. But most of all, it's about values and understanding that management is the humanist art. It's all about people. And we gave Dick responsibility for people development a year and a half ago.
DOBBS: You mentioned the provision in your contract that you put in there after the death of your son, John, in 1997. Did you think that you would stay in the job this long when you did that?
LEVIN: No, I honestly didn't. I didn't think I'd -- and people are surprised today that -- I didn't think I'd be here this long. And yet, I found that I could use the platform as the bully pulpit to say important things, to try and inspire people. And that was the fulfillment, I think, of values that reside in my family, in my children, and in my son, who was a heroic person.
DOBBS: You mentioned the word bully pulpit. There's another fellow by the name of Ted Turner who looked at CNN as bully pulpit, who has expressed his anger with you, nearly sold the company to you, for the way you treated him. He, obviously, misses that bully pulpit today. Do you think you'll miss it?
LEVIN: Well, first of all, Ted, I think, will now express himself in wonderful ways. The two foundations he has: the process that he's producing and we have quite a relationship. I love Ted. And very often, I think, I'm the symbol for some things that he want to say, but I love him.
At the same time, will I miss it? Obviously, I can't answer that definitively. But I think I'm a centered person. And I know this is what I want to do. It's very important to me to do it. I know the company is in good hands. I know what, you know, what I've done and what I've built. I'd like to take this next risk.
If nobody returns my calls, you know, I'll have to live with that.
DOBBS: Well, you have done it your way for 30 years, uniquely, individually. I have never seen you pander. And I think that you'll probably have no trouble at all finding a lot of people returning your calls, Jerry.
It's great to -- for you to share your time with us tonight on decision day.
LEVIN: Thank you, Lou.
DOBBS: Thanks, Jerry. We wish you all the very best.
LEVIN: Thank you.
DOBBS: Let's turn now for the news for the latest developments in the war against terrorism. The U.S. military investigating the deaths of three American soldiers in Afghanistan today. They were killed when a 2,000 pound so-called U.S. Smart bomb exploded near Kandahar. U.S. warplanes dropping heavy bombs in cave and tunnel complexes near Tora Bora. On the ground, mujahadeen tanks launching attacks against al Qaeda targets. And in Germany, Afghan delegates have signed an agreement, today, to set up an interim government for Afghanistan. Pashtun leader Hamid Korazai (ph) will head the 29 member interim government, which will be in place for six months.
President Bush meeting with Norway's prime minister at the White House this afternoon. During that meeting, Mr. Bush urged Palestinian President Yasser Arafat to crack down on terrorism.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Now's his time. And other nations around the world that are interested in peace must encourage Mr. Arafat, must insist that Mr. Arafat use everything in his power to prevent terrorist attacks.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
DOBBS: Earlier today, a suicide bomber blew himself near a luxury hotel in downtown Jerusalem. Only the suicide bomber was killed. Six people were injured. We are told they were injured only slightly.
And one of the FBI's most wanted fugitives has been arrested in a Cincinnati suburb. Clayton Lee Waagner, suspected of sending more than 280 fake anthrax letters to abortion clinics. Waagner escaped from an Illinois jail in February.
Scientists in Maryland have now opened the letter that contains a potent form of anthrax which was sent to Senator Patrick Leahy. They're now beginning to remove that anthrax inside, using a robot. The letter was discovered and quarantined less than a month ago. The FBI hoping it will yield important clues.
President Bush has been in office now nearly 11 months. The nation is now more than eight months into recession. It is nearly three months since the terrorist attacks, yet there is still no sign of an economic stimulus package. Last evening, the first meeting of the new leadership committee, a group of lawmakers chosen to work out a compromise plan.
Joining me now, is the man who leads those negotiations, the Chairman of the House Ways and Means Committee, Bill Thomas.
Good to have you with us, sir.
REP BILL THOMAS, CHMN. HOUSE WAYS & MEANS CMTE.: Thank you, nice to be with you.
DOBBS: First, may I ask for a progress report? Has there been an important breakthrough since we've been on the air?
THOMAS: Well, actually, we have come to a tentative agreement, but as you might guess, were moving very slowly. We've agreed that 1099 forms ought to be able to be sent electronically. Currently under the law that you can't. Well now come on, that's agreement. [laughter]
And hopefully, we can build on that. You know the kind of process that's necessary. It's called, you know, confidence building and trust building. But you also understand that it's extremely difficult, because we're in a structure, which is almost unprecedented.
The Senate was not able to pass a piece of legislation. But nevertheless, the House and the Senate is trying to negotiate a solution. We're going to be here all day Friday, because the House will have concluded its work, passing the trade promotion authority bill tomorrow. And we will be here most of Saturday as well and working Sunday.
This long weekend, I think, will give us an opportunity to simply get in the mood and begin to move forward.
DOBBS: Congressman, you have attached to the fast track trade legislation, which will have a vote tomorrow in the House. Incentives if you will, to your colleagues across the aisle. Unemployment benefits extension, healthcare, tax credit for healthcare, are those sweeteners sufficient?
THOMAS: Well, actually, those aren't attached to the trade bill. Those are items that are being discussed under the economic stimulus. And there's no way you can tie the two together because the economic stimulus is in conference. And those may or may not be accepted by the Democrats it included.
But what we have done in terms of trade promotion authority is enhance the trade adjustment, where you deal with unemployment related to trade and address the massive unemployment that occurred because of September 11.
There are a number of Democrats who have looked at the gestures that we have made in trying to go beyond the narrow trade promotion authority legislation to the trade adjustment authority and have created a higher comfort level.
You know, this kind of legislation really doesn't get enough votes to pass until on the floor, the speaker who is presiding says, "All time has expired." That'll happen tomorrow. And when the speaker says that, there will be enough votes to pass trade promotion authority.
DOBBS: So you think you will get the votes?
THOMAS: Yes. Because the President thinks it's time, most of Americans think it's time. And I believe a majority of the House thinks it's time to provide the President with the ability to negotiate with other countries in the area of trade, labor, and the environment, included for the first time in this agreement.
DOBBS: And the Democrats today saying there's no way. So we have, if you will, countervailing views on that, but we'll take yours as the definitive one because you're here, Mr. Congressman.
THOMAS: Well, in politics sometimes, you never get a clear outcome. Here's an opportunity to see if we say it passes, they say it won't and see what happens. My hope is I'm the right and they're wrong.
DOBBS: Your driving forward with the economic stimulus package, which we presume will be, if it is ever passed, somewhere between $69 and $100 billion of stimulus, taking whatever form. How soon will the country see one? At what point will shame take over?
THOMAS: We're overdue. Remember, the House passed its version now almost two months ago. And if someone didn't like our version, the Senate should have passed theirs. They didn't. So we're still in a room trying to produce one.
The key here is to help those who, through no fault of their own, have lost their jobs and the health insurance associated with it. But also, we've got to make sure that the business segment, investment and other areas get help so that we can have all the oars pulling in the economic boat, not just those on the consumer side.
The investment side and the consumer side need stimulating. And the sooner everybody understands we need to do that, then the sooner we can help the economy. The longer we wait, the less relevant we are. And frankly, I hope Congress understands we need to be relevant.
The House has done their job. The Senate didn't. We're trying to meet to make sure that the American people get the job done. And that is, we all recover.
DOBBS: Since we have you on the record, in terms of assuring the passage of fast-track tomorrow, how about giving us a date as to when we'll have economic stimulus?
THOMAS: My preference would have been three weeks ago. As you know, economic stimulus, especially in terms of fiscal policy, only works if it becomes law and it's done fairly quickly. We haven't done either of those in this case. And therefore, our relevance is in question. And I do hope that Senator Daschle and the others who have been unwilling to put products on the line realize that the only people who are suffering by delay are those who have lost their jobs and don't have health insurance and businesses that can't keep people hired.
DOBBS: I know you're trying to get to that date I asked for.
THOMAS: Well, to tell you the truth, these are one of those things I can't give you a date on. It's kind of like California earthquakes, Lou. It's -- the way you tell earthquakes is, the longer you are from the last one, the closer you are to the next one. We're sooner than we were yesterday. And hopefully after the weekend, we're within a week or two. Hopefully the week would be the better prediction.
DOBBS: Congressman, I just want to ask our producers, do we have a quote that you used yesterday? I'd like to see this quote and show it to our audience if we may. This -- only you, Mr. Congressman, "probably the most appropriately named committee in the House. Our job at Ways and Means is to figure out ways of separating people from their means."
Bill Thomas, it's nice to see a congressman with a great sense of humor.
THOMAS: Well, I tell you, Lou, we're doing it in stupid ways now. The government does need revenue, but we've been doing it a lot smarter ways. And that's one of the things that we need to focus on.
DOBBS: Now for some reason, I was hoping you would say that.
THOMAS: Yes.
DOBBS: Congressman Bill Thomas, thank you very much, chairman of the House Ways and Means Committee.
THOMAS: Thank you.
DOBBS: Coming up next here, for the second day in a row, a big rally to tell about on Wall Street. We'll tell what was behind today's rally. And if Walt Disney had lived, he would be 100 years old today, just one-year-older than Senator Strom Thurmond, today celebrating his 99th birthday. We'll take a look at how the Disney Company is celebrating and how Strom Thurmond is celebrating. Next. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Guilty, that is the verdict tonight against Alfred Taubman, the former chairman of Sotheby's. The 76-year-old Taubman today found guilty of masterminding a price-fixing scheme with rival auction house Christie's. That plan, which lasted six years and cost art customers tens of millions of dollars, eliminated discounts and fixed sales commissions. Taubman faces up to three years in prison and fines of $350,000 or more.
The Labor Department has opened an investigation into Enron's handling of its employee pension programs. That investigation trying to determine whether Enron broke any federal laws by freezing 401(K) retirement accounts, as Enron stock price collapsed. Thousands of employees have retirement accounts tied in large part to the value of Enron stock. They have lost an estimated billion dollars. The stock falling 99 percent this year.
A solid rally to tell you about on Wall Street. Stock prices soaring, pushed the Dow and Nasdaq through key levels. The Dow up 220 points, an even more impressive gain for technology issues. The Nasdaq jumping more than 4 percent on the day, gaining 83 points. The S&P 500 up 25 points.
For more now on today's banner session, Christine Romans at the New York Exchange. Christine and Greg Clarkin at the Nasdaq marketsite. Let's begin with Greg.
GREG CLARKIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: All right, Lou, I tell you, this was something like a blast from the past for the Nasdaq. You had a lot of elements today really lining up nicely for technology shares. You had a strong report on the service sector, boosting the economy.
Then also, you had a real feeling from some of these technology companies that maybe the worst is behind them. Oracle's CEO Larry Ellison saying that business is stabilizing. You can see the Nasdaq out of the box higher, never looked back and all these lofty levels, really a far cry from back on September 21, when the markets hit their year low.
Take a look at how differently things are today from then. Nasdaq composite up about 43 percent in that span. Semiconductor stocks up 53 percent in that span. Back on September 21, it would have cost just $7.96 to buy a share of Sun Microsystems. Investors are paying $14.57 at the close of trading today.
And back on September 21, the Nasdaq was down 42 percent year-to- date. It is now down just 17 percent. So quite a comeback there. And this big run today really bolstered by the big cap technology shares. Oracle, up about 11 percent. Cisco Systems up better than $1.00. Intel will be updating investors tomorrow on Wall Street on their business climate. That stock rose ahead of that conference call. Dell Computer tacked on $1.59. And Microsoft adding better than $2.00.
So the Nasdaq composite closing at 2046. That's the best closing level since August 3.
Lou?
DOBBS: Pretty good performance. Blue chips doing well, as well. And for that, we turn to Christine Romans.
Christine?
CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Lou, folks are telling me that they are pricing in a quick and vigorous recovery in the economy sometime next year. Stocks are rallying in anticipation of that.
Take a look at how the Dow fared today. A ninth 200 plus rally. Computer chip makers, financials, transports, retailers, oil stocks, all rallying. The Dow up 220 points on the day on very strong volume.
In rally mode, Goldman Sachs up $5.00 on the day. Brokers on fire here. Remember Goldman was the one this week that said it was time to pare back on the brokers. IBM rallied to the highest price in 13 months. Micron Technology shifts here. Should be among the first traders who are turning me to turn in tech before the economy actually does.
And look at the steel producers. All of them rallying here today on expectations for profitable industry consolidation.
Meanwhile, the last one on this list, Lou, you might not know this one. It is an auto parts chain, not a household name, but rallying sharply here today. It had better than expected earnings. And the idea is more people are driving their cars with lower gas prices and the fear of flying. That's going to mean they're going to need more auto parts.
So indeed, this one doing nicely. Traders are saying it's indicative of the need to find places to put their money. And that one did very nicely today. Lou?
DOBBS: You're right, I had not paid attention to Auto Zone, but a 20 percent move on that theory?
ROMANS: Absolutely. Up nicely here today on pretty good volume, too.
DOBBS: You've got to love America. Christine Romans, thank you.
Well, still ahead, we'll be talking about a birthday celebration for the man who said, "my business is making people, especially children, happy." And also, a celebration for a man who dedicated his life to serving the nation, the longest serving member of the U.S. Senate.
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DOBBS: After nearly a week of delays, the space shuttle Endeavor rocketed into orbit today at 5:19 Eastern time this afternoon. Seven astronauts aboard the flight, heading for the international space station. They're also carrying 6,000 U.S. flags to commemorate the victims of the September 11 attacks. This is the first shuttle launch since September 11.
Endeavor expected to dock at station Alpha on Friday, return to its Florida base on the 16 of December.
The oldest member of Congress ever celebrates his 99 birthday today. U.S. Senator Strom Thurmond, first elected in South Carolina in 1954. He was elected as a Democrat, switched to Republican party 10 years later. The senator plans to retire in January 2003. That would be a month after his 100 birthday.
In a statement, Thurmond said, "99 is fine, as long as I can live to be 110."
Just two days ago, the woman who used to babysit Senator Thurmond passed away. Lois Addy died at the age of 109. The retired school teacher and principal once said she often took the young Thurmond horseback riding to keep him entertained.
Another birthday celebration, Walt Disney would be 100 years old today, were he still alive. The man behind the happiest place on earth was honored at Disney World in Florida. Parades, fireworks. Disney died in 1966 at the age of 65, but not before launching a multibillion dollar worldwide entertainment industry. He was a pioneering animator, who began his Hollywood movie studio in a converted garage. Considered a workaholic, Disney once said, "I love Mickey Mouse more than any woman I have ever known."
(PREVIEW, "WOLF BLITZER REPORTS")
DOBBS: Wolf, thank you very much. Coming up next here, we'll take a look at your thoughts and a preview of reports that could affect the markets tomorrow. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Tomorrow, reports on the economy will include a report on third quarter productivity. We'll have factory orders, as well as retail sales. And National Semiconductor will report its quarterly earnings. President Bush will be meeting with foreign minister al- Faisal of Saudi Arabia and Bolivian President Ramirez. Richard Grasso, the chairman and CEO of the New York Exchange will also be my guest tomorrow night. So please join us.
Now let's take a look at some of your thoughts. Craig Sherman writes, "How is it that all the stock pickers, mutual fund managers, industry pundits, etcetera, couldn't detect anything wrong at Enron?"
Well, Susan Byrne, of Westwood Funds, has long been wary of Enron. She pointed out here last night, a dozen or so financial matters individually that weren't material, but they came together, cumulated, and became very material. And frankly, a lot of those very same analysts simply didn't understand the company. And they were in a very large company in that regard.
The fact that Osama bin Laden is on "Time" magazine's short-list for person of the year disturbs many of you. Bob Shea in Stuart, Florida writes, "I heard that 'Time' was considering bin Laden as man of the year so they could sell more magazines. This is stupid and ridiculous." Person of the year is not an award or a popularity contest. Past recipients have even included Adolf Hitler, Stalin, Ayatollah Khomeini.
Time's managing editor Jim Kelly says, for better or for worse, it's the person who's had the greatest impact on history and the news in the past year. Bin Laden certainly would be amongst those who might qualify.
Tom Browne in Boston, Massachusetts says, "if bin Laden is named, 'Time' magazine's person of the year, I hope the title is bestowed posthumously." Well, a dead person has never been put on the cover. But that outcome would, of course, solve at least two issues.
By the way, other candidates are widely thought to include, last year's choice President Bush, New York City's Mayor Rudolph Giuliani, Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld. And it might not be a name. Time's Jim Kelly says putting a firefighter on the cover, has not been ruled out. Send us your thoughts at moneyline@cnn.com. Include please your name and address.
And that's MONEYLINE for this Wednesday evening. Thanks for being with us. I'm Lou Dobbs. Good night from New York.
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