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Lou Dobbs Moneyline
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Aired December 06, 2001 - 18:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ANNOUNCER: This is LOU DOBBS MONEYLINE for Thursday, December 6.
Here now, Lou Dobbs.
LOU DOBBS, CNN ANCHOR: Good evening, everyone.
The Taliban's reign of terror in Afghanistan appears to be almost over. Opposition forces now control the airport at Kandahar. Tomorrow, they'll hold the city. And we'll discuss the progress in this war against terrorism. We'll be talking with Ambassador Richard Butler, the former U.N. weapons inspector in Iraq. We'll also be going live to the Pentagon for reaction to Mullah Mohammed Omar's request for amnesty as a condition of his surrender.
James Parker joins us from Dallas, Texas tonight. The CEO of Southwest Airlines will tell us how he's managing to run a profitable airline during these extraordinarily difficult times, particularly for the airline industry.
On Wall Street today, stock prices ended the day all but changed. The Dow Jones Industrials giving back 15 points after two days of triple-digit rallies.
In Afghanistan, the Taliban have struck a deal to surrender. The Taliban have already lost control of the Kandahar airport. Tomorrow, they will apparently turn over the city to Hamid Karzai. Karzai, Afghanistan's interim provisional leader, is offering limited amnesty to some of the Taliban. That offer was not extended to Mullah Mohammed Omar. Karzai said Omar must renounce terrorism, and President Bush said the Mullah must be brought to justice.
Small arms fire has broken out around Camp Rhino in Afghanistan. U.S. Marines there on high alert earlier after receiving what was termed a credible threat. Two U.S. servicemen were injured when a Huey helicopter crashed near the camp's airstrip. That fighting continues in the mountains near Tora Bora tonight.
Anti-Taliban forces are attacking from the ground and U.S. B-52's lending support, dropping their bombs. Osama bin Laden may be hiding in one of the caves near Tora Bora.
And late today, the bodies of two of the three Green Berets killed in a bombing accident yesterday arrived at Ramstein Air Force Base in Germany. The three Americans were all senior enlisted men. They were with the Third Battalion, Fifth Special Forces group, Green Berets, based at Fort Campbell, Kentucky. There will be a memorial service for them at Fort Campbell Monday.
For some insight now into the latest developments in Afghanistan, retired general, CNN military analyst Wesley Clark joins me from Little Rock, Arkansas. General, good to have you with us.
RETIRED GENERAL WESLEY CLARK, CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Thanks, good to be here, Lou.
DOBBS: These developments are breaking relatively quickly. We appear to have an agreement between the leader of the provisional government, Hamid Karzai, and the Taliban. What is your sense of the conditions of this -- the apparent conditions at least -- of this surrender?
CLARK: Well, I think it's a good agreement on the face of it, but we have got to look at what it really means. For example, when you give them amnesty, who really controls Kandahar then? Do they simply go home and say we're no longer Taliban, but they are not part of the governing system or does Hamid Karzai and his force enter? And then what about the weapons and who has the authority to use force to police inside the city.
And then there's Mullah Omar. He doesn't get amnesty unless he renounces terrorism or he is not allowed to surrender unless he renounces terrorism? And then, will he be delivered for justice and will we have a chance to interrogate? So, there's a lot of different elements here, Lou, that have to come together before we're going to be satisfied, I think, that we've really seen the outcome we seek. Our real purpose here has always been to go after al Qaeda. And Mullah Omar and his key leaders hold some critical information I would suspect on al Qaeda, not only what it's done in Afghanistan but they'll have knowledge about its activities elsewhere. We have to have that information.
DOBBS: The Taliban supporting, even defending the al Qaeda and Osama bin Laden. Is it really, General, that simple to say we're through and all is forgiven?
CLARK: Exactly. And, clearly, it's not that simple. And, yet, this has always been the pattern in Afghanistan. And, Lou, this is the problem with the notion of the peacekeeping force that we're talking about putting in there because in the past, there have been many, many opportunities for tribes and leaders to switch sides and change allegiances. And, in fact, that results in a situation where no one is in control.
So it's going to critical in this agreement for the surrender of Kandahar that there be some understanding that Hamid Karzai's troops will go in. They will take power in the city. Not only will the Taliban be given amnesty, but they'll also have to give up their weapons in some way so that there can be uniform authority throughout the country here. If that's not done, we really have not accomplished our purpose there in terms of taking the Taliban out of power. DOBBS: What is your sense, as the al Qaeda and Osama bin Laden have been the principle targets in this campaign in Afghanistan, what is your sense of the effectiveness of the campaign against the al Qaeda? Apparently, a number of the Taliban also -- some people forget -- also members of the al Qaeda.
CLARK: Well, I think the campaign has been very effective thus far. It's just that it's not over. We know we've killed some of the top people. We've broken up their network. They've certainly, the al Qaeda, certainly does not have the opportunity to use all of Afghanistan as a base for support and for launching activities now.
But we still can't say that we've destroyed that network. And the attacks that are going in the Tora Bora complex, if they're successful and we have every reason to expect they will be successful, will certainly be another benchmark along the way.
But I think the polls suggest that the American people believe that we have got to get Osama bin Laden to call this successful. I'm not sure if that's totally correct, but we clearly have to know that we've destroyed this al Qaeda network from the top down through the middle levels down to most of the individual soldiers including cells in hiding. And critical information for dealing with that network, we have to believe, is somewhere in Afghanistan. And so, right now it's a battle for information as much as it is a battle against the individuals on the ground there.
DOBBS: Secretary of State Colin Powell said that an international peacekeeping force is to be in Afghanistan soon, was the time reference he used. But do you see a proper role for the United States military in that peacekeeping force?
CLARK: Well, I think one has to look at what the real mission and the authorities of the peacekeeping force are. Certainly, it will be possible to get nations to volunteer to put troops on the ground at the airport and in Kabul. The question is what will those troops do?
If the Northern Alliance remains in control and its personnel remain armed. Then, who has the right to use force? Is this a chapter 6 peacekeeping force, that is it can only defend itself, but it can't enforce anything or is it supposed to do something more than that? If it's supposed to take active measures, if it's supposed to actively assist the delivery of humanitarian aid, actively go against highway robbers and other lawlessness in the area, then it's hard for me to imagine that it can be very successful without active U.S. participation.
How much that means, in terms of U.S. troops on the ground, is it only a intelligence hook up, is it just a cell there inside the headquarters or is it a token representation of the United States, or even a substantial U.S. commitment. I think it's going to depend on what the tasks are that are expected of it. And we don't know exactly how that -- that peacekeeping force arrangement's going to be brokered yet, or what the Afghans are prepared or permitted to do.
DOBBS: General, thank you very much. General Wesley Clark. CLARK: Thank you.
DOBBS: Now, turning to the latest developments in the conflict in the Middle East. The Palestinians and Israelis will resume security talks. Yasser Arafat has agreed to meet tomorrow with Israeli officials. These will be the first such talks, since a series of suicide bomb attacks over the weekend. Those bombings killed 28 Israelis, prompted Israel to retaliate with two days of air attacks. Those attacks were carried out -- those bombings were carried out by the militant terrorist group Hamas. The group's founder Sheikh Ahmed Yassin was place under house arrest by the Palestinian Authority yesterday. That in turn sparked rioting by Palestinian supporters of Hamas. One person was killed, others injured, when police clashed with the protesters.
Since September of last year, Mideast violence has claimed the lives of at least 748 Palestinians and 222 Israelis.
Late this afternoon, a mass shooting in an industrial park in Goshen, Indiana. A gunman went on a shooting spree inside a factory, he killed one co-worker and wounded at least seven others. Police stormed the building, they found the gunman dead, there was a gun lying by his head. Reports are the gunman had been fired earlier in the day. At least 4 people were taken to area hospitals, one of those is reportedly critically injured.
Joining us now with more on the story from Goshen, Indiana is Keith Oppenheim -- Keith.
KEITH OPPENHEIM, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Lou, this is a bad story, but it may not have been as bad as we originally feared. The mayor of Goshen, shortly after this shooting took place at approximately 2:30 this afternoon, was reporting that there may have been 30 injuries, and it turns out that the numbers are much lower thankfully. But as you indicated, there are two dead and 7 injuries. And one of the dead is the gunman himself. Police indicated that the weapon was found beside the head of the gunman inside the plant.
The plant, by the way, is called Nu-Wood products. It's a mill work, they make decorative wood products there. Normally, they have about 60 employees, and there were 20 to 30 employees inside the building at the time of the shooting. I'm about a quarter mile away from the plant, Lou, and we are waiting to find out whether or not any of those employees, who were inside during the shooting, may come this way. We are told that the scene has been secured. So there is some relief from some of the people who are waiting to hear from their loved ones that there are fewer injuries than was originally first thought. Lou back to you.
DOBBS: Keith, thank you very much. Keith Oppenheim from Goshen, Indiana.
Attorney General John Ashcroft today faced tough questioning from the Senate Judiciary Committee. One of the main topics, the president's decision to use military tribunals to try non-U.S. citizens accused of terrorism. But that wasn't the only topic the attorney general had to respond to. For the details, we are joined now by CNN national correspondent Susan Candiotti -- Susan.
SUSAN CANDIOTTI, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Hello, Lou. It was perhaps the attorney general's strongest defense yet of the administration's legal tactics in the war on terror. And while he got general support, Senators from both the sides of the aisle peppered him with questions primarily on military tribunals. Time and again, Mr. Ashcroft insisted the rules are not up to him, but will be defined by the Defense Department. He repeatedly defended tribunals as necessary to protect America against terrorism.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOHN ASHCROFT, ATTORNEY GENERAL: When we come to those responsible for this, say who are in -- in Afghanistan, are we suppose to read them the Miranda rights. Hire a flamboyant defense lawyer? Bring them back to the United States to create a new cable network of Osama TV, or what have you, provide a worldwide platform from which propaganda can be developed.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CANDIOTTI: The attorney general also engaged in a spirited exchange with Democratic Senator Russ Feingold, over making sure the rights have those who are being detained as part of the 9/11 investigation are being protected.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. RUSS FEINGOLD (D), WISCONSIN: I want your commitment, Mr. Attorney General, that every one in detention will get a lawyer and will be able to consult with them. Can you give me that commitment?
ASHCROFT: No, I can't. I can not force lawyers on individuals who refuse lawyers. I can make a lawyer available to every person in detention. In terms of the availability to lawyers, for calling them, I am not authorized to provide lawyers to those in the INS detention -- at public expense. But I will promise to do...
FEINGOLD: Do you promise...
(CROSSTALK)
ASHCROFT: ... everything I --
FEINGOLD: ... to commit to making a lawyer available to every person in detention?
ASHCROFT: If lawyers are willing to provide service to those individuals, and we're helping generate those lawyers, we will do that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CANDIOTTI: There were other issues, but clearly the one taking center stage, today, military tribunals. Polls show most Americans approve of them -- Lou. DOBBS: Susan, thank you very much. Susan Candiotti, from Washington..
Coming up next here. College football isn't just about school spirit. A successful team generates a lot of money for its university. Those student athletes adding to bottom line of higher education. Next, we'll take a look at the importance of the so-called bowl championship series rankings, the controversy around them and how much money is at stake.
And while most airlines are struggling, we'll take a look tonight at how Southwest Airlines is managing to turn a profit and set the standard for the industry.
Also, why Iraq may come under closer scrutiny in the war against terrorism, when we continue.
ANNOUNCER: After the break Lou is joined by Richard Butler, diplomat and residence for the Council on Foreign Relations.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: While the focus in Washington, of course, remains principally on Afghanistan, in the coming weeks the war against terror will extend beyond the borders of Afghanistan. At that time, it could be a safe assumption that Iraq would be amongst those nations considered to be deserving of some scrutiny.
Joining me now the former United Nations weapons inspector in Iraq, Ambassador Richard Butler. Good to have you here.
RICHARD BUTLER, FORMER U.N. WEAPONS INSPECTOR: Good evening. (UNINTELLIGIBLE) first time, I've admired your work for a long time. And so here I am.
DOBBS: You're very kind. And today, before the Senate, the suggestion that Iraq could possess significant capbility in terms of biological weaponry. What is your thought?
BUTLER: It clearly does. When I was leading that effort in Iraq, I didn't design this, but I found a rule of thumb that worked. The stronger the resistance of Saddam to our inspections, the more important was the weapons system at issue. And, Lou, the strongest possible resistance was given in the biological area. They lied. They cheated. They hid.
We found out that they had a quite significant biological weapons program. I have to assume from what we saw, what we learned, but also this behavior, and now the absence of inspectors for three , that he's still in that business with a substantial biological weapons program.
DOBBS: The form of anthrax -- and this is becoming increasingly intriguing -- the anthrax that has been distributed in the United States, in particular, and EAMS (ph) so-called (UNINTELLIGIBLE) form of anthrax, first, a great deal was made about the suspect as being a U.S. citizen, a domestic case of terror. Now the suggestion is, in testimony before the Senate, that it is not a strain from the U.S. military nor the Russian military. What do you make of that?
BUTLER: Well, there are three candidates as the source of the anthrax. A domestic source in the U.S. because of the past size and quality of the U.S. program. The same is true of Russia, which had a gargantuan biological weapons program. I mean, you wouldn't believe -- I mean, it was nuts how much they made and the variety of stuff and so on -- and Iraq. So, they are the three candidates. And by process of elimination, it seems that it remains possible that if it was an external source, Iraq is a pretty fair candidate.
DOBBS: And while it has not been absolutely demonstrated that Iraq has been successful in acquiring that particular strain of anthrax, it is known in the testimony before the Senate today that they have been trying to secure that particular strain.
BUTLER: Yes. and there are some other ambiguities. Remember, the people who died as a result of breathing this stuff. This is pulmonary anthrax, that means very fine small particles.
Iraq was working on that. For that, you need to use either bentonite or silica to make the grade the size of particles. We're not quite sure whether Iraq was using either or both. And we're not sure whether bentonite was present in this substance found here or not. There are ambiguities, Lou. But I just make the basic point: three possible sources, one of them is Iraq. It ain't over yet. We still need to know.
DOBBS: We have further progress in the investigation today. The letter sent to Senator Patrick Leahy was opened. That hopefully will lead to some clues for the investigators. What should be the next step on the part of the United States to make a determination as to which is the source of this anthrax?
BUTLER: We just have to continue to forensic investigation. There's two routes, and always have been. One is to follow -- it's the passage, the physical passage of the stuff through the postal system and it's origin and so on, that theoretically would point to a place of origin, a person. We have to also follow the biological route. We have to become clearer, if we can, about exactly what kind of anthrax this was, how it was made. And that may, although, Lou, not inevitably, that may show us where it was made.
DOBBS: Raising the specter of further concerns about weapons of mass destruction. Dirty bombs -- the suspicion, the fear that the al Qaeda has them dirty bombs, nuclear devices. You were responsible for some time for investigating in one quarter of the world though possibilities. What's your best judgment on this?
BUTLER: First of all, let me be quick about this. There are two main problems. One is that with the breakdown of the Soviet Union, what is now called the Russian Federation, we lost inventory. We lost knowledge of how much weapons they had and weapons grade material. There's even a report that there are a dozen, 12, suitcase size, fully fabricated nuclear weapons gone missing. The question is where are they? Who has them? Secondly, there's good evidence from Kabul from our action in Afghanistan that al Qaeda was working on a so-called dirty bomb. Lou, this is not a nuclear explosion. It's actually a conventional explosion, but around that core you put radioactive material, uranium, and spread that so it becomes a radiological weapon. Were they doing that? Were they trying to get it? You bet.
DOBBS: Mr. Butler, I wish we had more time. Come back soon as we continue the discussion.
BUTLER: I will. Thank you for having me here.
DOBBS: Our pleasure. Mr. Butler, thank you.
Coming up next, we'll have the very latest for you on the war against terrorism in Afghanistan, the Taliban's decision to surrender the last stronghold, Kandahar.
And in just a moment, the chief executive officer of the only major U.S. airline making money in these difficult times for the airline industry. Stay with us.
ANNOUNCER: Next, Lou talks with James Parker, CEO of Southwest Airlines.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Now the latest developments in the war against terrorism. The Taliban has agreed to surrender control of its last stronghold, Kandahar. Taliban fighters will turn over their weapons tomorrow. The Bush administration has ruled out any Taliban surrender if that deal were to guarantee protection for its leader, Mohammed Omar. Washington says Mullah Mohammed Omar must be brought to justice.
Marines at Camp Rhino near Kandahar are firing mortar rounds into that area around the base. The camp has been placed on high alert for a possible attack. A U.S. helicopter went down at that campsite, injuring two servicemen. The crash was not, we're told, the result of enemy fire.
The bodies of two Green Berets killed in Afghanistan today arrived in Germany today. The body of the third victim will arrive later. The three were killed in a bombing accident. And an Air Force special operations airman received a purple heart today. Staff Sergeant Michael, whose last name was withheld for security reasons, received the medal for injuries received in supporting Operation Enduring Freedom.
A man acting suspiciously has been arrested outside the southwest gate of the White House. The 26-year-old man was carrying a foot-long knife. In his truck, officials found at least two weapons and a bulletproof vest. Secret service agents say President Bush was never in any danger.
For more now on the fate of Taliban leader Mullah Mohammed Omar, we are joined by CNN military affairs correspondent Jamie McIntyre at the Pentagon -- Jamie.
JAMIE MCINTYRE, CNN MILITARY AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Well, Lou, the Pentagon says when Kandahar falls, it insists that Mullah Mohammed Omar must be taken prisoner. In fact, the Pentagon would like all the top Taliban leadership imprisoned until they can -- quote -- "be sorted out."
Meanwhile, a senior Pentagon official expressed what he called deep concern that Hamid Karzai, the new interim leader of the Afghan government, might cut a deal with Omar that would -- quote -- "let him off the hook." If that were to happen, he said it would cause serious strains between the United States and the new Afghan government. But, meanwhile, efforts are going on behind the scenes to make sure that doesn't happen. Meanwhile, there is still fighting going on. The latest reports from Pentagon sources indicate that opposition forces are at the Kandahar airport, and have called for air strikes to solidify their positions -- Lou.
DOBBS: Jamie, thank you very much -- Jamie McIntyre from the Pentagon.
A victory tonight for President Bush. The House of Representatives narrowly passed a bill that gives the White House expanded authority to pass new trade deals, fast track authority.
The House voted 215-214 to pass the measure. It allows President Bush to negotiate trade deals with other countries that Congress can either pass or reject. But not amend. That legislation now goes to the Senate, where it may not be considered until next year. And we should point out that Congressman Bill Thomas, the Chairman of the Ways and Means Committee here on this broadcast last night, predicted that indeed he would win passage on the legislation. And he did.
Tracking the terrorists' money trail. One part of the money trail concerns money laundering and tax evasion. Well, that's an area where the Treasury Department says it's making progress, including a move today by Treasury Secretary Paul O'Neill.
Allan Dodds Frank reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ALLAN DODDS FRANK, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): For decades, many Caribbean islands have been famous for beautiful beaches and secret bank accounts. Now the U.S. Treasury Department claims it is making progress in getting some of those money-laundering havens to cooperate in terrorism and tax evasion investigations.
The latest to cooperate, Antigua and Barbuda. At the Treasury Department, the Prime Minister of Antigua and Barbuda signed a Tax Information Sharing Agreement with Treasury Secretary Paul O'Neill. Last week, the fanfare was for a similar signing on the Cayman Islands.
MARK WEINBERGER, ASSISTANT TREASURY SECRETARY: We started with a bang with the Caymans. And I think we're going to end with Antigua and Barbuda. And I think we're going to see some more in the relatively new future. And I think it bodes well for a kind of a catalyst or snowball of these agreements in the future.
DODDS FRANK: The participation of the British ambassador to the United States and the signing by the Caymans is a promising sign, says one veteran prosecutor, who otherwise is skeptical about how much the tax agreements will produce.
ROBERT MORGENTHAU, MANHATTAN DISTRICT ATTORNEY: Belize and Antigua and the Caymans and Gibraltar, I mean, there are more money laundering jurisdictions flying the Union Jack than any other flag. And one of the reasons for that, of course, is that people have more confidence in the British protectorate than they do in Panama.
DODDS FRANK: With British Prime Minister Tony Blair strongly backing the financial attack on terrorists, the pressure on tax evaders also is growing.
DONALD ALEXANDER, FMR. IRS COMMISSIONER: I think that they are telling them to get on board this time, because the terrorism, among other things. So the September 11, I think, has undoubtedly aided the cause of dealing with tax evasion through foreign havens.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
DODDS FRANK: For now, the two agreements the Treasury has reached a little more than promise to cooperate. The Parliament in Antigua still has to approve the agreement. And the one with the Caymans does not take effect until 2004. And as Morgenthau points out, those countries can back out of the agreements on just three months' notice -- Lou.
DOBBS: Allan, thanks. Allan Dodds Frank.
Well, turning now to the aviation industry. Southwest Airlines is the only major carrier making money right now. It's a remarkable feat, especially when you consider the industry is simply hemorrhaging money.
The secret to Southwest's success, it flies a no-frill, short- haul, high frequency service. Unlike other airlines, which rely on a hub-spoke system, Southwest flied only one type of aircraft, the Boeing 737. It also has the fewest customer complaints in the industry. And it suffered only one labor strike in its 30-year history.
That success has helped Southwest's stock outperform all its competitors and the broader market over the past year. In fact, Southwest's market value tonight is greater than all the other carriers combined.
And the man who leads the charge to continue this remarkable run is CEO James Parker. He joins us from the company's hometown of Dallas, Texas.
James, good to have you here. JAMES PARKER, CEO, SOUTHWEST AIRLINES: Well, it's great to be with you. Thank you, Lou.
DOBBS: This -- I know this has been a tough quarter for you, as it has for everyone else. But your traffic has really returned to pre-September 11 levels, has it not?
PARKER: Well, not quite, Lou. It's still off on a year to year basis, but the recovery has proceeded along the lines of our hopes and well ahead of what our worst fears were.
DOBBS: You know, you and your company received a compliment on this broadcast that I think may be singular. You had a competitor, that is the CEO of BlueJet, John Kneelman say that they model their business on yours. I don't know how many times I've ever heard a CEO say that he's modeled his business on another model that's a competitor. How does that make you feel?
PARKER: Well, it is a compliment. We've heard that a lot, really, over the last decade or so, as Southwest has been successful and consistently profitable. Our friends at JetBlue have adapted a number of ideas from Southwest. I know a lot of the people at JetBlue and have high regard for them. And I think they've done a great job of getting the airline off the ground.
DOBBS: I think that's what we call reciprocity, isn't it?
(LAUGHTER)
Jim, how tough is it going to be from here? You, like everyone else, have received help from the federal government during this quarter. Is it going to be as bad as we feared?
PARKER: I think the recovery is going to be very gradual and prolonged, Lou, in the airline industry. And being very honest with you, the entire industry is seeing a lot of pressure on the revenue side. We know that our traffic is soft and yields are down.
Fortunately, with our low-cost structure and strong balance sheet at Southwest, we're in a great position to survive this and going into next year, we expect that at some point next year, when we see the ability to do so profitably, we will resume our growth next year.
DOBBS: Jim, I'm looking at a report here showing the traffic for month of November for each of the major carriers. And I have just got to ask you, is this right that you're off 1.2 percent?
PARKER: That's right, Lou.
DOBBS: I mean, that's amazing.
PARKER: Yes, we were pleased with that. And our capacity was up a little bit on a year to year basis. So our load factor was down a little bit.
But as said, that was in line with our hopes. We knew we were going to be below last year little bit, but it could be a lot worse. And we're -- our October load factor was down about six points. Our November load factor was down about five points, due to our increased capacity. And that's pretty much the pattern that I would expect it will see for a while, as we're in this recovery mode that we're in right now.
DOBBS: Are you going to be expanding your business?
PARKER: We've put all of our expansion plans on hold, following September 11, until we were sure that we could regain our financial stability. I think we've done that. We've been modestly cash positive since September 11. We had a lot of money in the bank that we're guarding very carefully. And I think we're nearing the point where we can consider resuming that growth. DOBBS: All right, Jim, thank you very much for being with us.
PARKER: Thank you, Lou.
DOBBS: Much continued success. James Parker, Southwest Airlines.
PARKER: Thank you.
DOBBS: The economic fallout from September 11 is spreading in ways none of us could ever have imagined at first. Chinatown, a neighborhood in New York City, just a few blocks from where the World Trade Center once stood, was spared physical damage, but it has been scarred deeply financially. From restaurants, gift shops, to the garment industry, many local businesses in Chinatown are close to bankruptcy.
Peter Viles has the story.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
PETER VILES, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It is less than a mile from ground zero, but it might as well be another world. New York's Chinatown, 100,000 people packed into some of the narrowest streets in America. An economy unto itself, supported largely by two businesses, the garment industry, and the tourism trade. Both came to a halt on September 11, when the streets of Chinatown were closed.
PAUL LEE, CHINATOWN BUSINESSMAN: The first month was, you know, just me and a couple of my neighbors. We couldn't even get out of the neighborhood. We couldn't go anywhere else. You had to provide ID. There were checkpoints everywhere.
VILES: With streets blocked, garment factories couldn't take deliveries. Dozens closed. Chinatown's biggest employer, up to 15,000 jobs, began to shrink.
MAY CHEN, GARMENT UNION OFFICIAL: We estimate if it was really full capacity, it could be as high as 15,000. I would say as of 9/11, it was may be around 12,000. And now we estimate that it's probably 5 or 6,000. So there are thousands of people now laid off. VILES: Now this is not a story about the government's failure to respond. The President sent Labor Secretary Elaine Chao to Chinatown with a million dollars for worker training. Chao has a full-time staffer here, Angie Tang, who made sure the government has translators who speak Mandarin and Cantonese.
ANGIE TANG, LABOR DEPARTMENT: This is not an office of unemployment, it's an office of re-employment. It's to get people get back on their feet and to give them pride about having their job. And that's basically what we've been hearing, our times down here. People don't want a handout. People want their job back.
VILES: Paul Lee runs Chinatown's oldest gift shop. That is his grandfather behind the same counter 82 years ago. He says the neighborhood is now drawing on its pride.
LEE: If you look as pathetic as the public wants you to, you start to feel pathetic. And I'm not going to do that.
VILES (on camera): Those are brave words, but Labor officials say that among many here in Chinatown, there is a sense of despair right now. Despair because this is a neighborhood built by people, many of whom came from halfway around the world, to make a better life here. And right now, all of a sudden work is hard to come by.
Peter Viles, CNN Financial News, New York.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
DOBBS: Coming up next, the Gap, many other retailers hit hard by unseasonably warm weather, of all things. We'll take a look at the weakest sales figures for the industry in more than a decade. And we'll determine whether it could jeopardize recovery. Wall Street remains optimistic, despite a slight pullback in the Dow today. So why shouldn't they stay optimistic? And Intel gives investors some guidance. And that'll fuel optimism. Find out why, next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: On Wall Street, stocks little changed after two days of rallies. The Dow today down 15 points. The Nasdaq up only 7 points. The S&P 500 down 3 points.
Christine Romans at the New York Exchange, Greg Clarkin at the Nasdaq marketsite. There they are -- Christine.
CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Lou, well the bears will have you believe that the rally's over. You couldn't do it three days in a row. And you couldn't extend things too far above 10,000. But the bulls will tell you, look how far this thing has come. Of course, it needs to take a little bit of a pause to refresh the up trend. The Dow Industrials up 23 percent since the September lows. S&P 500 up 21 percent. The Dow Transports up 29 percent. They say today was that pause.
Still, there were some story stocks moving here today. Best Buy saw some disappointing same-store sales numbers. And that hit the stock, even though it affirmed earnings expectations. Enron lost another 35 cents, a bit of a loss of confidence there on that one today. "The New York Times" warned on its fourth quarter because of a tough ad market, down about $2.00 today. ExxonMobil, the oil stocks, and oil prices down here today on worries about snags and maybe production cutbacks.
And J.P. Morgan Chase up $1.36 here today. The brokers having a fine day. Again, the third day in a row, this group has moved higher. And after the bell, Lou, some news from Advanced Micro Devices. That's a chipmaker. AMD came out and said that things are looking better for sales for the fourth quarter, might even turn a profit again in 2002. That stock up $1.50. Chips, as you know, another leadership group. We'll watch them tomorrow -- Lou.
DOBBS: Christine, thank you. You said that about as quickly as one possibly could.
(LAUGHTER)
Christine, thanks, Christine Romans.
Technology stocks did rally for a third straight day. Greg Clarkin at the Nasdaq marketsite -- Greg.
GREG CLARKIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Lou, that's right. A modest gain, about 7 points. Tech stocks really spent much of the day just kind of treading water. A lot of folks spent the day wondering what was going to happen after the close of trading. That's where Intel and Sun Microsystems were due to update Wall Street on their business conditions.
Here's some of the highlights from Intel's conference call. They raised their revenue estimate. It previously had been $6.2 to $6.8 billion. It is now $6.7 to $6.9. So slightly above what folks were figuring at the top end of that range. Provided no earnings per share target, but the consensus on Wall Street is for about 10 cents a share.
Now in after hours trading, Intel stock has been up nicely. Here's what it did during the regular session. Lost 45 cents to $34.16.
Sun Microsystems, on their conference call, also saying that things are on track. That stock sold off slightly, but it's had a torrid run, about doubling in price since late September, so giving back a little bit today.
Other big caps fared a little better. Oracle continued its run up, after yesterday's big pop on the bullish comments out of their CEO. Cisco Systems had a very good week, up another quarter today. And Microsoft tacking on 55 cents.
So all things considered, a lot of folks liked today's resilience. They didn't give back any of those big gains. And right now, it sits at 2,053 -- Lou. DOBBS: You got to love resilience, Greg. Thanks, Greg Clarkin.
Both the stock and bond markets betting the economy has seen the worst, and laying the groundwork for recovery.
Kathleen Hays is here now to tells us precisely whether this optimism is appropriate and justified,
KATHLEEN HAYS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: When we look at the news on economy we got today, I'd have to say there's nothing to contradict that. There's nothing to say yet though that we're really roaring ahead. So let's take a look.
DOBBS: You're not going to be definitive here?
HAYS: Well, let's see. Let's just get to the end of this. And then...
DOBBS: OK, I'll wait for the mystery to unravel.
HAYS: Let's start with the chain store sales. Same-store comparisons year-over-year. Now the discounters did well. They've been doing well for a long time. 4.3 percent for Wal-Mart. That's not great. Wal-Mart, when it's doing well, is up double digits.
But look at Kohl's.
DOBBS: Wow.
HAYS: They've got the touch, up 26 percent on their same-store sales.
The apparel makers or sellers, that is, just got clobbered. Look at the Gap, down about 26 percent. The Limited down 7 percent. But the story here...
DOBBS: There we can see it.
HAYS: ...is the warm weather. Yes. And in fact in part because of that, the monthly gain was only 2 percent for the chain stores. And that was the worst showing since November of 1990, when we were in a recession.
Interesting though that warm weather is going to help construction spending. That's what Goldman Sachs says. That's going to help the fourth quarter not be quite as negative. Maybe these jobless claims will start getting better as a result.
They did fall in the latest week, 18,000 to 475,000. But we're still well above where we were a year ago. We're above where we were when the economy went into recession. And in fact, when we get the jobs report tomorrow, the economy is expected to lose jobs for fourth month in a row, about 189,000, about half of the loss of 415,000 the previous month. No surprise, the unemployment rate.
DOBBS: What do you think the unemployment rate will be? HAYS: 5.6 percent, up from 5.4. And what's interesting about these numbers for Wall Street tomorrow, Lou, is that people have already priced in a loss of about 200,000. We've heard talk of a 300,000 loss. I would think the risk is, you get a smaller loss. Wall Street likes it because it's more evidence that things are bad, but not as bad as they were building a base for recovery, starting to turn around.
DOBBS: So am I justified in my optimism?
HAYS: Oh, you're always justified in your optimism.
DOBBS: All right.
HAYS: But see, I'm an optimist, too. I think without optimism, you're lost.
DOBBS: We have double validation.
HAYS: There you go.
DOBBS: All right, Kathleen, thanks, Kathleen Hays.
Coming up next, college football is not just a game. Well, it's not just a game, it is also a very big business. Student athletes putting a lot of dollars in the coffers of these universities. We'll take a look at how much financial considerations go into those calculations for BCS placements. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Oil prices sliding today. OPEC delayed a planned 6 percent cut in oil production. OPEC waiting to see how big a cut Norway will make. Yesterday, Russia decided to cut output by 150,000 barrels a day. That's very negligible. The cartel, OPEC, expects Norway to match Russia's cut, hoping to prop up sagging prices. You put all that together and it comes up to a decline of 95 cents on the day. Light sweet crude settling at $18.54 a barrel.
On Sunday, college football fans will find out which teams will play in the national championship and in three other major bowl games. The Bowl championship series highly controversial this year, because of the rankings by the BCS. And at stake, not only school pride, but a lot, a lot of money, millions and millions of dollars. And certainly an added measure of controversy.
Casey Wian has the story from Pasadena, California.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CASEY WIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): This is where college football's national champion will be crowned, according to the Bowl Championship Series or BCS. It's a half billion dollar eight-year partnership between the major college football conferences, bowl games, and ABC Television. DAVID CARTER, THE SPORTS BUSINESS GROUP: You can't argue with the financial success of BCS, because what you've seen over the last several years is the amount of money flowing into college football, going up dramatically, not just from the networks, but from sponsor affiliations. And people's general interest in the ball games has gone up.
WIAN: While the BCS guarantees eight schools, $12 million paydays, it hasn't ended bickering about who's number one. It relies on a complex series of formulas, including polls of writers and coaches and computer rankings.
There's no argument about the BCS' current top team, the undefeated Miami Hurricanes. But the debate over who should face Miami is intensifying, and won't be decided until after BCS number two Tennessee placed its conference championship game Saturday. Should the volunteers stumble, there are strong arguments both for and against several teams, including Nebraska, Colorado and Oregon.
JOHN DORGER, CEO, TOURNAMENT OF ROSES: The commissioners of the BCS are very sensitive to the criticisms they acknowledge. No system is perfect. They're working very hard to make it the most equitable system that they can. I think it's better than it's ever been.
WIAN: Not according to BYU, which like Miami, is undefeated but played a weaker schedule. BYU wasn't invited to any BCS bowl and settled for the Liberty and $10 million fewer dollars. Attorneys have contacted BYU and offered to help sue the BCS on antitrust grounds.
One solution that's gaining support, a playoff among the top four or eight teams. It has the potential for even bigger paydays, but there are four years left on the BCS contract with ABC.
(on camera): Even if this season's Rose Bowl games does produce an undisputed national champion, critics will continue to complain that BCS is flawed. And they're not likely to be silenced until the number one team is decided, not by computers, but by a playoff on the field.
Casey Wian, CNN Financial News, Pasadena, California.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
(PREVIEW "WOLF BLITZER REPORTS)
DOBBS: Wolf, thank you very much.
Coming up next here, we'll take a look at your thoughts, a preview of tomorrow's report on the state of the U.S. workforce. Stay with us.
ANNOUNCER: Tomorrow on Lou Dobb's MONEYLINE, the slump in advertising is making expensive Superbowl ads a tough sell for Fox. Why are advertisers passing on the biggest TV day of the year? Tomorrow on Lou Dobb's MONEYLINE.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Tomorrow, we'll have the employment report for the month of November. Economists are expecting the unemployment rate to rise to 5.6 percent from 5.4 percent, that more than 210,000 jobs were lost in the month. Also tomorrow, we'll have the University of Michigan Consumer Sentiment Report.
Taking a look now at your thoughts. As we reported earlier, Attorney General John Ashcroft today vigorously defending the use of military tribunals to try non-U.S. citizens suspected of terrorism. But a few of you think the administration has overstepped its bounds. Joel Shertok in Delaware writing in. "Times of crisis provide excellent cover for carrying out hidden agendas and this crisis is no exception. The consequences will reverberate far into the future."
Roland Hall writes to say, "I agree with the President. There should be no debate. We don't want these terrorists brought to justice. We want justice. We're at war." Roland says "Deal with it."
Judging by the number of e-mails we received on "Time" magazine's consideration of person of the year, one figure you certainly do not want to see on that cover is Osama bin Laden. Many say a firefighter would be a very good choice.
Some, including Jeff Cavanaugh in Aptos, California suggests the Stars and Stripes, saying "Time should merely put a flag on the front cover of the magazine." Jeff says "just a picture of the flag. Anyone with me? Well, I'll join you, Jeff. It wouldn't be the first time, by the way, an inanimate object was chosen. Time's person of the year in 1982: the computer.
As for talk of a boycott of "Time" if bin Laden is chosen, Ron Smith in Florida writes in, shrugging off the suggestion. He says, "It's America. Buy the magazine if you want, folks. That's why we live here, isn't it?" Not a bad thought to conclude on.
Send us your thoughts moneyline@cnn.com. Please include your name and address as always.
And for this Thursday evening, that's MONEYLINE. Thanks for being with us. I'm Lou Dobbs. Good night from New York.
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