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American Morning
Sound Off: Could or Should Mullah Omar Go Free After the Taliban Surrender in Kandahar?
Aired December 07, 2001 - 08:45 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: Our "Sound Off" segement this morning, could or should Mullah Omar go free after the Taliban surrender in Kandahar? Well, the man who threatened "death to America" may be trying to strike a deal that guarantees his safety. Defense Secretary Rumsfeld says, that would run counter to U.S. goals in Afghanistan.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD RUMSFELD, SECY. OF DEFENSE: Our cooperation and assistan with those people would clearly take a turn south if something were to be done with respect to the senior people in that situation that was inconsistent with what I've said.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ZAHN: So could Mullah Omar be granted immunity? And can we trust our Afghan allies?
Joining me Now from Los Angeles, syndicated columnist Julianne Malveaux, and from New York, constitutional lawyer Ann Coulter.
Anne, you have to go a little soft on Julianne today. It's very early in the morning in Los Angeles.
Good to have the two of you with us.
All right, Julianne, I'm going to start with you. What do you think should happen to Mullah Omar?
JULIANNE MALVEAUX, SYNDICATED COLUMNIST: He is a war criminal. The whole notion of amnesty for me is ridiculous. I mean, been there, done that. We want to see him rear his ugly head in a decade as we've seen Saddam Hussein?
I don't get this conversation about amnesty, although I realize that the United States can not play a major role. This has to be an Afghan-decided situation. But the government over there is shaky. We've got precedent to treat him as war criminal and making sure doesn't come back. Amnesty, I don't get it and feel it. I'm not a hawk. I'm a dove, as you know. But here, I'm like ooh, I don't know.
ZAHN: Ann? ANN COULTER, CONSTITUTIONAL LAWYER: Well, for one thing, I want to point out that the leaders of the Taliban and Al Qaeda are not really into being martyrs when it comes to themselves. They'll tell their eaisly demagogue (ph) followers, oh yes, die in the name of Allah and you'll be a martyr. But boy, when it comes to their own hids, their really not interestd in becoming martyrs, are they?
ZAHN: Yes, hiding pretty pretty quickly, don't they? They know how to abandon a lost cause in Afghanistan.
COULTER: That's right, no. And, moreover, I would disagree with Julianme on only one small extent. I mean, obviously, I don't think there should be amnesty either, and I don't think there will be amnesty, because apparently, the United States doesn't want there to be amnesty, and the Northern Alliance are our allies, and they're doing a lot of the work on the ground, but the United States is there biggest best buddy.
ZAHN: But, Ann, it is not fully understood at this hour, and maybe we don't have the details from the U.S. government, exactly what deal was done that delivered Kandahar.
COULTER: Well, it could be that the Northern Alliance will give Mullah Omar amnesty for leaving Kandahar, or perhaps even leaving Afghanistan. But that doesn't mean he has amnesty with the United States. I mean, we couldn't takeover at that point. He has to go out in the world and go about business at some point. I'm not saying that that's what's going to happen. It could happen. I'm just confident there will be no amnesty for Mullah Omar, however it comes about.
ZAHN: Julianne, do you trust the surrender of Kandahar?
MALVEAUX: Not at all. The problem here is that the Northern Alliance and the government that's scheduled to come in on December 22nd is an extremely shaky government. These folks don't like each other. They've been in civil war for 23 years. It's a very, very fragile alliance. I don't think that any promises that are being made now we can guarantee that they will be kept. So I think that we should proceed with caution.
If indeed our goal was to -- quote -- "crush Afghanistan" and now rebuild it along Democratic lines, I'm not sure this incoming government will be the one to do it. I would be proceeding with caution. I would not look at the surrender as something that's permanent. And the more Taliban folk are out there, the more likely it is that a group of them will come back seeking revenge in a year, two years, five years or 10.
ZAHN: Ann, how much faith do you have in this new interim government? I mean, already you've got a key Uzbek leader coming out and saying, hey, I'm not backing it. There are great concerns about this government crumbling, as five other governments have crumbled since '85.
COULTER: I take a slightly different tact to that, and that is, I don't really care, as long as the United States accomplishes its national security goals. And fortunately, as you'll recall, something "The New York Times" made fun of President Bush for repeatedly was that he was sneering about nation building, and he wasn't going to use the United States military to engage in peacekeeping or nation building, and I agree with him on that. They're going to have to build their own sewers.
ZAHN: I don't know, Juliane. The debate is that perhaps what's going on in Afghanistan is indeed nation building.
MALVEAUX: Well, it's short sided to say we are not going to engage in nation building. Frankly, poverty breeds terrorism. You look at terrorism, you connect it to the terms of conditions of the way people live. You see these pictures on the front page of the paper with these little-bittu children and these big old bowls, hungry. And when you say you are not going to do nation building, what you're really saying is you're turning your back and allowing the conditions for more terrorism to breed. That's ridiculous.
ZAHN: Ann?
COULTER: I mean, I think there will be an international force. The U.N., Peace Corps can go in if they'd like to. That isn't not the role of U.S. military, though. And frankly, when we try to go the and choose one Mullah over another, 20 years later, everyone is yelling at us for saying we chose the wrong guy. That isn't our job. We are the only nonimperialist superpower in the history of the world. We may help innocents defend themselves and we may defend our own national security, but the Marines there now are not on a peacekeeping mission.
MALVEAUX: We're not talking about that...
ZAHN: About a minute left.
Julianne, I'm going to waive off to another subject, and tha is the issue of the letter that a number of members of Congress signed, urging President Bush to consider action against Iraq. Your thoughts on that, and then Ann gets the final word.
MALVEAUX: I think that's a mistake. I don't think we need to be in that region, talking about going from pillar to post. We have some goals in Afghanistan. It looks like we're on the brink of accomplishing those goals. Let's move on. I mean, let's really move on and begin to talk about our entire Middle Eastern foreign policy, not just about Iraq.
ZAHN: Ann.
COULTER: I think the nation would be better served if Congress would do its job and confirm judges and confirm nominees to the Defense Department, which they're still operating with full confirmation.
MALVEAUX: Oh, please.
COULTER: Stop going around bossing the commander in chief around. I mean, I don't really think what Congress thinks we should be doing next as military strategy. You know, do your job.
ZAHN: All right, Julianne, I know you want to jump in there, but you only have about 10 seconds to do it.
MALVEAUX: Ann's contempt for Congress is just ridiculous. When they're not confirming people, it's maybe, Ann, because they're not qualified.
ZAHN: There you have it. Oh, Ann, go ahead, take five more seconds.
COULTER: Well, I don't know, if they had a hearing, perhaps we could find out. And you know, I don't think they're really looking when they are wasting their time issuing these idoidic declarations and trying to conduct foreign policy. That's just not their job.
MALVEAUX: They have the right to advice the president.
(CROSSTALK)
COULTER: It's not their job.
MALVEAUX: He's the president, Ann. He's not the king.
COULTER: No, but he is the commander and chief and he runs military policy.
(CROSSTALK)
ZAHN: I have to go, cut, cut, because my producer is furious with me right now. Julianne Malveaux and Ann Coulter, as always, good to have the two of you sounding off for us.
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