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Lou Dobbs Moneyline
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Aired December 07, 2001 - 18:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ANNOUNCER: This is LOU DOBBS MONEYLINE for Friday, December 7.
Here now, Lou Dobbs.
LOU DOBBS, CNN ANCHOR: Good evening everyone.
The Taliban is on the run in Afghanistan and, today, America remembers the tragedy of Pearl Harbor.
In Afghanistan, the Taliban have fled two cities, Kandahar and Spin Boldak. And American fighter jets are continuing to pound the mountains where Osama bin Laden is thought to be hiding. Nic Robertson joins us from the Afghan border. General David Grange will be here to assess the prospects of finding Osama bin Laden in the mountains near Tora Bora.
From Hawaii tonight, we'll tell you how Americans who lived through the attack on Pearl Harbor and the families of those who died there marked this, the 60th anniversary of that day of infamy.
On Wall Street, stock prices declined as the nation's unemployment rate climbed to a six-year high. Also tonight, how bad is this advertising slump? Bad enough that even the biggest advertising event of year, the Super Bowl, is having a problem selling its commercials. We'll have a report for you.
In Afghanistan tonight, the brutal reign of the Taliban is over. Anti-Taliban fighters in Kandahar raised the green, red and black flag of their deposed king, Mohammad Zahir Shah, as Taliban forces fled. U.S. Marines have been battling to block the Taliban as they try to escape Kandahar with their weapons. General Tommy Franks, the commander of U.S. forces in Afghanistan, said seven of the enemy were killed in overnight battles. And the hunt is on for the Taliban's supreme leader. Mullah Mohammed Omar did not surrender. And interim leader -- provisional leader -- Hamid Karzai said that Omar must now face trial.
Near Tora Bora, al Qaeda forces are being attacked from both above and from the ground. U.S. fighter jets and bombers are pounding the foothills of the Tora Bora region. And on the ground, anti- Taliban forces are fighting with Osama bin Laden loyalists in the caves where bin Laden is thought to be hiding. Some of the first U.S. ground troops in Afghanistan today returned home. Two hundred Army Rangers returned to Fort Benning, Georgia this morning. Members of the 75th Ranger Regiment were welcomed home by their wives, children and girlfriends.
Nic Robertson is in Chaman, Pakistan, on the Afghan border near Spin Boldak. Nic has the latest for us on the collapse of the Taliban -- Nic.
NIC ROBERTSON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Lou, late yesterday, our time now, we crossed in to Spin Boldak just hours Taliban had left. Spin Boldak is a frontier town. It sits astride the highway to Kandahar, some three hours drive away.
When we entered Spin Boldak, it was somewhat chaotic. There were men wandering around with guns. But there was also a sense of normalcy to it as well. There was no fear and panic among the people. What we could see were people putting up the red, black and green flag of the exiled king, Zahir Shah. We were also able to speak with the commanders of the new tribal forces, who are controlling Spin Boldak. There are three different tribal groups now controlling that small frontier town. They told us that they want to track down Osama bin Laden and bring him to trial, bring his al Qaeda forces to trial. They also want to track down Mullah Mohammed Omar, the Taliban leader, who they blame for bringing so much destruction and misery to their country. They want to see him stand trial too.
The situation in Spin Boldak then, fairly stable when we were there. But hours earlier in Kandahar, the situation had been somewhat more chaotic as the Taliban pulled out of town. We were told by our sources there, there was widespread looting, aid and warehouses, and also people's homes. But as the forces of Mullah Nakib (ph), who is now the new commander to replace the Taliban inside Kandahar, moved into town, we are told that the situation began to settle down. People came out on the streets again, though there was still some sporadic looting, some of it also at gun point. Other tribal forces also came in to the town to join Mullah Nakib (ph). He and some of his men took over government buildings, took over the governor's house, and took over the corp commander military compound.
The situation by in nightfall, the situation now we are told in Kandahar is calm, has been restored. The Taliban are gone. When they left Kandahar, we don't know if they took their guns with them. When they left Spin Boldak, the new tribal commanders there told us that the Taliban had handed their guns in first -- Lou.
DOBBS: And, Nic, we also understand however that U.S. forces are attacking retreating Taliban who are bearing weapons. This is a confusing at best situation, particularly in the area around Kandahar. Exactly what is the number of Taliban? Is there anyway that we can know exactly the number of Taliban who have surrendered and those who are fleeing, where they're going?
ROBERTSON: You're right, Lou, it's a very, very confusing situation. There are many levels of this that just haven't played out yet. One of those levels is, of course, the differences of opinion between all the different tribal groups that have moved in the fill the vacuum after the Taliban. And the other key issue, as you say, is the fleeing Taliban. How many are there?
Well, there were believed to be tens of thousands of Taliban fighters several months ago. Many of those withdrew from the north when the Taliban had huge losses in the north of Afghanistan. Many of those were believed to be around Kandahar. What we have seen over the last few weeks is the Taliban fighters already beginning to see the writing on the wall, see the demise of their leadership, is to essentially hand in their guns and go home. How many hard-core fighters were there left around Kandahar -- very difficult to say. But we do know in their number, and the number probably was in the thousands, that there were Arab al Qaeda fighters as well. And they were seen leaving town, as you say, with their guns and they were being interdicted by Marines in and around -- well, around -- Kandahar as they were essentially taking off for the hills and for the desert, Lou.
DOBBS: Nic, thank you very much. Nic Robertson reporting from Chaman, Pakistan tonight along the border with Afghanistan.
Well, where is Osama bin Laden? Will we be successful in searching him out? CNN contributor, military analyst, General David Grange joins me now. General, good to have you with us.
RETIRED GENERAL DAVID GRANGE, CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Good evening, Lou.
DOBBS: The Taliban apparently has now been effectively neutralized, if not entirely removed. Do you think that that is an adequate achievement of the mission there?
GRANGE: I believe so. They have been neutralized as a Taliban component, as a whole. And I think you have a lot of independents units, warlords, that have taken advantage of the situation as they change sides and they remain local rulers of their particular territory. And I think this will continue to cause some problems in the area, not only to the security of the international coalition forces, but as this new government tries to kickoff here further on in December, to hold that together is going to be quite difficult.
You already have heard what's happened in the northern province up by Mazar-e Sharif and also to the West in Herat. Those local commanders want to do some independent actions and self rule. So it is going to be difficult. But I think it does push the Taliban down quite a bit.
DOBBS: With these tensions rising amongst the various factions, which were to be anticipated and, in fact I'm sure, was anticipated by both the military and our diplomats, does the United States have a sufficient military presence in Afghanistan and influence with the factions to shape, if you will, the outcome in Afghanistan?
GRANGE: Since we don't know exactly how many international coalition forces to include the United States are in the area, we only have, you know, several reports. We know there is a Marine force to the south. We have special forces and some others including the Brits and other nationalities.
I would think that we probably need more. And I would say that for several reasons. One is that I think the anti-Taliban effort is going to slack off a bit because they have accomplished pretty much what they want in the civil war aspects of this war on Afghanistan. The hunt for bin Laden and the al Qaeda, though there's some interest -- and we just heard from Nic some interest on pursuing that -- I don't think it's going to be as -- you know, they're not motivated as much to do that.
DOBBS: General, we have 200 Rangers returned home. And General Tommy Frank says this does not suggest in any way an ebb in the force -- U.S. force -- in Afghanistan. But what does it suggest?
GRANGE: Well, first of all, I'm very happy that that contingent of Third Battalion Rangers got back to Benning before Christmas. But we don't know if another contingent went over to replace them in some staging area to do any kind of future operations. And I hope that they have the forces like the Rangers in the area, just like the Marines. They're organized for a little bit of different type of missions and we need the capability that both provide.
Those kind of units are going to be critical for these Tora Bora and other cave complexes like the wolf's den that the Soviets had a hard time fighting in and some of other of these cave complexes. That issue is just still there. We are going to need them. I also think that with the close air support situation, we need some slow moving type, close air support platforms, like A-10 aircraft and Apache gunships to supplement the Marine Cobras. That would give you a great close-in capability to interdict any escaping al Qaeda or Taliban forces as well as some of these close in fights as we narrow down the location of the al Qaeda terrorist networks.
DOBBS: General, with these reports that we're hearing that the elements of the Taliban are reorganizing east of Mazar-e Sharif, that the instability in Konduz, some question about whether the Marines themselves are going to move within Kandahar, the Taliban fleeing. We're now talking about an intensifying search for Osama bin Laden, other members of the al Qaeda. It looks like we're putting a tremendous strain, at least to the uninitiated, on a relatively small force of U.S. military.
GRANGE: It appears that it is small, and I would think they would have some kind of a plan in progress, and actually maybe the staging of forces to beef that up a bit. It seems like it's a strain. You know, the Marines' operational readiness is pretty well focused down to the south because of the type of equipment that they have, and there is a smaller contingents of Americans and allied forces outside of Kabul and also up north in Mazar-e Sharif.
But those areas, if there's any kind of targets that are of American interest for response, you would need some kind of forces to do that, some kind of strike capability besides airplanes.
DOBBS: And in the discussion, we've seen some shifting here in the mission, that's to be expected. But initially, the U.S. military moved into Afghanistan fighting against the Taliban and the al Qaeda, the mission was destroy both the Taliban and the al Qaeda. That shift has become remove the Taliban, destroy the al Qaeda, and to bring Mullah Mohammed Omar to justice. Now suddenly there's discussion about amnesty and the United States again seemingly not influencing the shape of that discussion and his fate. What do you think is appropriately his fate?
GRANGE: Well, hopefully that some of these anti-Taliban forces, some of the Pashtun as well as the Northern Alliance forces will kill him. And if they don't kill him, it will be appropriate that they hang him if he's caught. If not, if he's captured and turned over to the international forces, the United States, it's a great opportunity to try out our tribunal, to try him and then maybe hang him.
But the point is, he's an enemy of the United States of America. He's a direct supporter of the al Qaeda, a true enemy, as bin Laden is. And I just don't see how our government can condone his release or amnesty.
DOBBS: Certainly not condone it. Do you think permit it?
GRANGE: You know, it's their country, and it's pretty tough to force our will on the Afghan people. But I think we will negotiate to get him, if nothing else. I think that the leaders understand.
DOBBS: Yeah, I would just say, General, that's why we have our military there, is to impose our will. And the president of the United States has said we're going to bring the people who killed thousands of Americans to justice. Isn't that correct?
GRANGE: I agree with you, Lou, 100 percent. And I just -- the more interdiction and attacks the Marines can down in the south, and the more pressure on these terrorist that we can take out in Tora Bora and other areas, and hopefully with some more allied forces, the better it is for us in the future.
DOBBS: General David Grange, always great to have you here.
GRANGE: Thank you.
DOBBS: Well, rising tensions in the Middle East tonight as well. In a pre-dawn raid, Israeli jets pounded Palestinian targets in Gaza City. At least 19 people were injured in those attacks. Bombs destroyed the Palestinian's main police headquarters there. Israel said those buildings were used to make mortar bombs.
Meanwhile, Yasser Arafat has unleashed a tirade against the United States. At a meeting on security with Israel, Arafat accused the United States of a bias in favor of Israel. That meeting was mediated by special U.S. envoy Anthony Zinni. Palestinians battled police in Gaza City as well today. That violence erupting again this time during a funeral procession for a Hamas supporter killed in protests yesterday, those protests sparked by the house arrest of Hamas founder Sheik Ahmed Yassin.
It was 60 years ago today, a defining moment in our nation's history, the sneak attack against Pearl Harbor in Hawaii. Each year, we honor those servicemen that died on December 7, 1941, and those who survived.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
FRANKLIN DELANO ROOSEVELT, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: December 7, 1941, a date which will live in infamy. The United States of America were suddenly and deliberately attacked by naval and air forces of the Empire of Japan.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
DOBBS: This year's ceremonies take on new meaning in light of September 11. Eric Horng joins us now from Hawaii with a look at the day's events -- Eric.
ERIC HORNG, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Lou, I can tell you that the USS Arizona memorial here at Pearl Harbor takes on special meaning for veterans. It is the sight where nearly half of the 2,400 Americans who perished on December 7, 1941 died. It was a scene of profound loss 60 years ago, and today it was a scene of very poignant moments. Some 200 attended a closed ceremony at the USS Arizona memorial today. Twenty of those 200 people -- 21 I should say -- were survivors of the Arizona, many of them now in their 80s.
At 12:55 p.m. Eastern time, a moment of silence was observed; 12:55 p.m. being the exact time the attack on Pearl Harbor began 60 years ago. Following that moment of silence, a missing man formation fly-over by the Hawaii National Guard, flying over directly near the memorial itself. We were here as it occurred. It was very loud; four planes going over, honoring those 2,400 Americans, as I said, who died on December 7, 1941. Taking special meaning for the individuals gathering at that memorial. As I said, nearly half of those 2,400 were crew members of the Arizona.
The ceremony itself lasted about an hour, and perhaps one of the most poignant memories was toward the end, as a lone bugler played the traditional song "Taps" to honor those who were killed, and the melancholy strains of that tune resonated throughout the crowd, as there was also a 21-gun salute to celebrate those who had survived as well as to honor those who had died.
Now, hundreds of Pearl Harbor survivors from around the country arrived here and began arriving here in Hawaii last weekend. It really has been a week of solemn remembrance. All of those events culminating in the ceremonies today, the 60th anniversary taking on special meaning, given the fact that the veterans are -- many of them are in the 80s -- Lou.
DOBBS: Eric, thank you very much. Eric Horng.
President Bush this day commemorated the Pearl Harbor with a visit to aircraft carrier USS Enterprise in Virginia. The president compared today's fight in Afghanistan to the battle for freedom of World War II. Kelly Wallace traveling with the president, joining us now from Norfolk, Virginia -- Kelly. KELLY WALLACE, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Lou, President Bush back at the White House, but as you noted he used his visit here to the USS Enterprise to draw many connections between the attack on Pearl Harbor and the September 11 attacks. He also used the visit to personally thank the men and women participating in the military campaign against Afghanistan.
About 10,000 people, men and women of the armed forces and their families, gathering here aboard the flight deck of the USS Enterprise earlier this afternoon to cheer the commander-in-chief. The USS Enterprise, the aircraft carrier, one of the first to participate in air strikes against Afghanistan, returning back here to Virginia just about a month ago.
Also on hand, 25 survivors of the attack on Pearl Harbor. The president saying 60 years ago those attacks thrust the country into war. He said the same holds true today. But he said just like what happened after the attack on Pearl Harbor, the United States will not loose its resolve. And talking about the current military campaign under way in Afghanistan, the president saying dangerous work still ahead, but he said the U.S. is fighting this war to win, and in Mr. Bush's words, "win we will."
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Many terrorists are still hiding in heavily fortified bunkers in very rugged territory. They're said to be prepared for a long stay underground. But they're in for a sudden change of plans. Because one by one, we're going to find them, and piece by piece, we'll tear their terrorist network apart.
(APPLAUSE)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WALLACE: And the president also once again putting countries around the world on notice, saying there will be a day of reckoning for any country which continues to harbor or sponsor terrorists.
Lou, back to you.
DOBBS: Kelly, thank you very much. Kelly Wallace.
Coming up next, Fox hosting the Super Bowl this year, and Fox is banking on major revenues from those advertising sales on the biggest ad event of the year. But it's having a tough time finding sponsors, we'll tell you why.
More questions than answers in the latest discovery of anthrax at that federal reserve mail sorting facility, we'll have the latest for you.
Also, my next guest is critical of the Bush administration, on its stimulus package, on its tax cuts, and on just about everything economic. ANNOUNCER: Coming up, Lou speaks with economist Paul Krugman.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Congress struggling to come up with an economic stimulus package. There those who say this slowdown, this recession will only worsen if additional tax cuts are approved. And among those who say that is "New York Times" columnist, professor, economist, MONEYLINE contributor Paul Krugman, who joins us now. Good to have you here, Paul.
PAUL KRUGMAN, ECONOMIST: Good to be on.
DOBBS: We have a recession. We have a need for an economic stimulus package. What's the problem?
KRUGMAN: Right now there's just a huge philosophical gap, I guess, is the way to put it, between the Democrats and Republicans.
The Democrats feel basically that they were snookered into a huge tax cut most of which comes, you know, late in the decade, leaves them without, you know, basically.
DOBBS: Well, my goodness, Paul. I mean, with the recession starting in March where would we be if they had not done so?
KRUGMAN: Well, the part that we've actually gotten, which is the $40 -- $40 billion in rebates, was -- that was part of everybody's plan. What they're worried about is the -- the big tax cuts in 2006 and later, which they think are holding up long-term interest rates.
DOBBS: Well, now. These are long view-minded Democrats, aren't they, in the Senate to be worrying about 2006? Don't we have something more urgent in the immediate to worry about here?
KRUGMAN: Yeah. Actually, it's not the Democrats who playing the long game here. It's the Republicans. Because they want -- they want to accelerate those future tax cuts to lock them in so that they can't be repealed later on. You know, this is...
DOBBS: You -- your surely are not a proponent of larger government and more spending.
KRUGMAN: Actually, in this case that's not really the point. I mean, they -- the real sticking points are over how much unemployment insurance, how many unemployment benefits...
DOBBS: Right.
KRUGMAN: ...are going to be in, which the Democrats want, and how many business tax cuts are going to be, with the Republican...
DOBBS: Well, House Ways and Means Committee Chairman Bill Thomas says he's perfectly willing to go with the 13-week extension. They're very concerned about those unemployment benefits. Prepared to provide that. Prepared to offer a 50 percent tax credit for health care benefits. Isn't that helpful?
KRUGMAN: Well, there are other funny little things about that proposal. For example, the tax credit is worth almost nothing to most unemployed workers because they're, you know, not in -- in a tax bracket worth.
It's worth quite a lot if you're a well-off household and one of your members becomes unemployed temporarily. So you know, it's the kind of thing it's -- it's -- let's put it this way. Huge gap here.
I think, you know, if I try to be bipartisan, I'd say both parties want to make sure that this package sets them up for something later on. But the Republicans I think are the really intransigent ones here.
DOBBS: I'm always suspicious with you when you start being bipartisan, Paul.
KRUGMAN: I know, I know.
DOBBS: Let's turn to Enron if we may.
KRUGMAN: Yes.
DOBBS: This is a -- a debacle of immense proportions. The largest bankruptcy in corporate history. Give us your take.
KRUGMAN: You know, the thing that it makes me think of is the Asian financial crisis. You know, what -- what did we say about what was wrong with Asian companies? We said, you know, they're too highly leveraged. Their accounting is not transparent.
DOBBS: No transparency.
KRUGMAN: They rely too much on their political connections. Gosh. You know, Daewoo had nothing on Enron.
DOBBS: Well, in this -- this particular mess seems to have a huge ripple effect. It -- it seems that now there's a class-action lawsuit against Dynegy, which went in trying to be the white knight here.
KRUGMAN: Enron is a tar baby. If you -- if you came anywhere close to it, you're stuck with it.
DOBBS: Don't -- is it your sense that this is a failure of the regulatory agencies? What?
KRUGMAN: Oh, I think -- yes. I mean, this is a failure of -- it's a failure of the SEC, it's a failure of the accounting firms, it's a failure of -- you know they -- Enron got custom-made legislation, which meant that it was a essentially a financial firm not subject of the regulations financial firms face.
We are going to spend years picking over this one. DOBBS: You're -- you're making an interesting point. Because its financial dealings, if you will, in creating assets that were financial structures rather than hard assets, which is of course the norm in the energy industry. Even for those firms trading is remarkable. It worked for a very long time.
We also -- I think we should point out we have a very big business failure on our hands, first and foremost.
KRUGMAN: Yeah. I mean, this is -- you know, the worst thing I think you can say about Enron is it looks like a firm that was designed by a business guru. It had all of the slogans that were so popular -- or were so popular a month ago -- put into reality. And unfortunately it -- it busted pretty big.
DOBBS: Paul Krugman, always good to have you here.
KRUGMAN: Good to be here.
DOBBS: Thanks, Paul. Well, coming up next, U.S.troops after Osama Bin Laden. They are dropping bombs on Tora Bora, trying to drive him from hiding. We'll have the very latest for you on that.
We'll also take a look at the housing market. Despite the rapid pace of construction in this country, there are signs that the housing market is softening. We have that story coming up.
And the Super Bowl. As I said, it usually means millions and millions of dollars for the network broadcasting the game. In this weak advertising market, it's a tough sell for Fox. We'll tell you all about that and a lot more. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Tonight in Afghanistan, U.S. marines at Camp Rhino, near Kandahar, are on heightened alert again. Cobra helicopter gunships have been sent toward possible targets. Those ships flew the camp's perimeter but have reported finding nothing.
Those troops also have seen action over the past 24 hours, firing on Taliban fighters as they withdraw from Kandahar. Those fighters surrendering the city but not their weapons, and they are targets. As the Taliban flees, celebrations erupt in the streets. Anti-Taliban forces raise flags showing the colors of their deposed king, Mohammed Zahir Shah.
And U.S. fighter jets and bombers are continuing to pound al Qaeda caves near Tora Bora. Anti-Taliban troops have been fighting those forces on the ground and the United States now believes Osama Bin Laden remains in Afghanistan, that he may be hiding in those caves of Tora Bora.
But no one -- no one -- is certain where Mullah Mohammed Omar is tonight. The Taliban leader did not surrender today. Interim leader Hamid Karzai calls him a fugitive from justice. Today, a second round of tests were performed on a mail bin from the Federal Reserve processing facility. Just yesterday, that bin was found to contain anthrax. Also yesterday, the anthrax-laden letter sent to Senator Patrick Leahy was opened by a group of scientists. For the latest on that story, we go to CNN's national correspondent Eileen O'Connor in Washington -- Eileen.
EILEEN O'CONNOR, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Lou, it was some field tests in a bin of the Federal Reserve's mail that came back positive for anthrax, but the building itself, we're being told, does not contain anthrax. And that's according to the latest tests.
Now investigators say they don't know why that bin should have been contaminated because it actually had, in fact, was headed for the Federal Reserve. It showed that positive test result for anthrax exposure, but this was after it was already decontaminated.
They believe, perhaps, a dead spore may be causing the tests to show that positive result. Now nevertheless, they're going to go through this piece by piece, to determine which letter shows positive for anthrax. When they do, they will culture it and turn it over to the FBI.
So far, they say about 100 pieces of mail. They haven't gone through all of it, but they say so far, they haven't found anything. Now investigators believe if they're truly is contamination, it is likely due to some cross contamination with one of those anthrax-laced letters that went to Capitol Hill.
Now in terms of those letters, investigators say they are culturing the anthrax that they have extracted from the envelope of a letter sent to Senator Patrick Leahy. But they took very great care in opening that letter, some two weeks after discovering it in a batch of quarantined mail, as they wanted to preserve as much of the anthrax as possible to do some sophisticated tests, that could lead them to the source of the anthrax, at least that's what they hope.
They also carefully pulled out the letter, again to preserve the anthrax. It is identical to a letter sent to Senate Majority Leader Tom Daschle. Both of these men, of course, Democrats. With lines saying "death to America," "death to Israel," and "you die now," the FBI though believes those threats were made to make it look like an Islamic fundamentalist. They do believe, according to a profile they've mocked up, that this could be the work of a lone individual, much like one of those serial bombers you have in the past, like Ted Kaczynski, someone with a grudge for some reason.
Now they hope that the chemical tests they're going to do on that anthrax and the forensic tests on the letter, things like fiber samples, DNA, and fingerprints are going to help them narrow the lists of suspects -- Lou.
DOBBS: Eileen, this obviously has to be extraordinarily frustrating for the investigators trying to determine who has committed these crimes. At the same time, we're getting some rather confusing evidence. Before the Senate yesterday, the suggestion that this anthrax strain, the Ames strain, had been eliminated, all but eliminated as being sourced from either the U.S. military or from the Russian military, and that Iraq was likely the source of the strain. And at the same time, the FBI's made it clear, as you report, that they suspect they, if you will, a domestic terrorism. Is there anyway to square this up?
O'CONNOR: No, there isn't. I mean, there's a lot of conflicting reports, Lou. But a lot of it is based on speculation of what we've heard about this anthrax. None of the really, really sophisticated chemical analysis that they need to do, in order to really, really try to pinpoint the source, have they been able to do. Because you know, a lot of the anthrax from the Daschle letter basically ended up in the air.
And that's one of the reasons they took such great care. They actually interviewed a lot of scientists and asked them what is the best way to do this, so we can get as much of this anthrax as possible? So I do not believe, according to scientists I've spoken to who are looking at this anthrax, that they have definitively ruled out either the Russian or the U.S. program, because they haven't been able to do those chemical analyses.
So they also, you know, you talk to someone like Alabeck (ph), who is very involved in the Russian program. And he says even after these chemical analyses, it still may be difficult to determine, I mean, whether it was stolen from these programs or whether it was someone who perhaps had knowledge, trained in one of these programs or was associated with one of these programs, who could be making it now. Or it could be someone who has just been able to figure this out by information that's out there -- Lou.
DOBBS: The frustration not likely to abate soon.
O'CONNOR: Not at all.
DOBBS: Eileen O'Connor, thank you.
The space shuttle Endeavour has now rendezvoused with the international space station, Station Alpha, and in fact, docked just a few hours ago. The Endeavor delivering a new crew to station alpha, relieving the three astronauts who have been there since August. The shuttle Endeavor is scheduled to return to Earth December 16, scheduled to land at the Kennedy Space Center.
Nine states are taking a harder line against Microsoft. Those states rejected the original settlement from the Justice Department. And if this new deal is approved by a federal judge, it will change the way Microsoft does business.
Steve Young has our story.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
STEVE YOUNG, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The maverick Attorneys General wrote a proposal they say will close loopholes in last month's settlement, tighten enforcement, and make Microsoft pay for breaking the law. Their proposal to federal judge Kollar-Kotelly would install a special master, instead of a three person enforcement committee.
TOM MILLER, IOWA ATTORNEY GENERAL: That person would be chosen by the judge. It wouldn't be a group of two or three. And it would be a person that would, we think, have the authority to act efficiently, effectively and quickly. And that's all very important in this sector, as you know.
YOUNG: To promote competition, the proposal also requires Microsoft to sell a basic version of Windows at a lower price. Forbids sabotage of competition products. Requires Microsoft to keep making the Office Suite for Apple computers. And because the courts found Microsoft used its web browser to illegally maintain its Windows monopoly, the proposal says Internet Explorer should be open source code available to all. That suggestion is most likely to upset Bill Gates.
RICHARD BLUMENTHAL, CONNECTICUT ATTORNEY GENERAL: Well it may hit Microsoft's hot button, but the real test is what the court thinks. And the principle is that the monopoly in this product is an ill-gotten gain, the result of monopolistic misuse of Microsoft's power.
BILL LOCKYER, CALIFORNIA ATTORNEY GENERAL: It's pretty simple. We want to have Microsoft's private secret codes made available when necessary, so that other people can write software that will run and compete with Microsoft in the general marketplace.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
YOUNG: Microsoft said in a statement it's committed to complying fully with last month's settlement. It called today's proposed remedies extreme and not commensurate with what is left of the case -- Lou.
DOBBS: Steve, thank you very much.
We want to go now to San Francisco. Jen Rogers telling us that the Hewlett and Packard family members controlling a significant amount of shares of obviously Hewlett-Packard, putting further pressure on that proposed acquisition of Compaq Computer -- Jen Rogers.
JEN ROGERS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi there, Lou.
Certainly further pressure. Just in the last hour, we have heard from the David and Lucille Packard Foundation. They control just over 10 percent of the outstanding shares. The 12-member board saying in a statement that they have preliminarily decided to vote against the proposed merger between Hewlett-Packard and Compaq. They went on to say that they understand that strategic moves that the board is trying to make, the Hewlett-Packard and Compaq boards, but they think that it is in their best interests that they do not proceed with the transaction. We have just gotten a statement from Compaq and Hewlett-Packard, saying that they are disappointed with Packard family's decision and the Packard Foundation's decision. They say over the coming weeks and months, that they intend to continue to communicate the merits of this deal to their broad share holder base.
In after-hours trading, we have Hewlett-Packard shares trading up about $1.00. Compaq shares losing ground. Analysts that I have spoken to say they're pretty surprised that the news came out right now. And they are saying that this severely handicaps the deal going forward, not that it is necessarily dead on arrival though -- Lou.
DOBBS: Not with that few shares, a significant amount of money, but still not enough shares to drive this, is it?
ROGERS: Well, not exactly enough, but 10 percent and other families, they have about seven percent. That makes 17 percent. And on the Hewlett-Packard, when they vote, they need 50 percent of these shareholders that actually go out and vote. And that doesn't mean that not everybody goes and votes. So the people who do vote, and obviously, these foundations and the children will be voting their shares. So they are a little bit more heavily weighted.
Also, people saying that they're so influential because so many people, employees and institutional investors, follow their lead -- Lou.
DOBBS: Jen, thank you very much. Jen Rogers from San Francisco tonight.
Just ahead, one of world's biggest sporting events. It's called the Super Bowl. We'll tell you why it's not likely to pay quite as much this for its host network. Unemployment rising to the highest level in six years. We'll take a look at what that means for recovery. Also, we'll take a look at Wall Street, where stocks slipped a bit on the day, but had a joyous week. All of that and more coming right up.
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DOBBS: A troubling sign, indicating just how long and deep perhaps this recession is likely to be. The unemployment rate, 5.7 percent in November. That's the highest level in more than six years. Much worse than most economists had expected. More than a million jobs lost over the past three months.
Kathleen Hays is here now to put this all into perspective. Kathleen?
KATHLEEN HAYS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: You know, I thought they had priced in worse than expected economic news, but it seems like people are stopping to think about this November jobs report, Lou.
Payrolls fell more than expected in November, down 331,000. That was on top of 468,000 in November. Look at that, four straight months of job losses. About 1.2 million jobs disappeared from the economy since July.
Let's look how November breaks down. Manufacturing jobs down 163,000. Over year of job losses there. Services down 164,000. Even construction lost 2,000 jobs.
Now that one month view is bad enough, but when you stand back and look, the cumulative effect is starting to look rather weighty. Again, let's look at the manufacturing sector, for starters, to see the total job losses there.
Down 1.4 million jobs since July of 2000. In fact, the service sector has lost 1 in 5 jobs since September of 2000. That's where about 80 percent of the jobs in this economy come from. There's about 1.2 million people unemployed 27 weeks or more. That number has doubled since July.
Take a look at that unemployment rate, because the trajectory, the upward move is starting to look pretty steep. We were in a cycle low of 3.9 percent about a year ago. In fact, as recently as September, it was 4.5 percent. So we've had quite a jump in that unemployment rate. And you can see in the last recession, we had that same kind of acceleration. So as a temperature taker for the nation's economy right now, Lou, people are looking for the recovery, but this report seems to tell us that right now, the economy is still weak and getting weaker.
DOBBS: And the unemployment rate is what kind of indicator?
HAYS: It's considered a lagging indicator, but the Bureau of Labor Statistics went out of its way today to say that payroll's number is a coincident indicator. It really tells us where we were now. Maybe it doesn't tell us where we're going, but we know where we were in November.
DOBBS: Coincidentally or not, sounds lagging to me. That's shocking, actually. Thank you, Kathleen.
Stock prices, as we've mentioned, lower today, capping off an otherwise winning week on Wall Street. The Dow today down 49 points. Weekly gains, two percent. The Nasdaq also lower today, but for the week, a 4.5 percent gain, a little better. The S&P 500 up 1.6 percent.
Christine Romans, Greg Clarkin, Jan Hopkins join Kathleen Hays and myself. Good to see you all. It's been quite a week.
Greg, let's start with the Nasdaq, because you've done so well over there this week. We were talking last week that it couldn't get any stronger. It just got stronger.
GREG CLARKIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: We've got nothing but good things to say tonight, Lou.
DOBBS: Great.
CLARKIN: It was a pretty good week. The Nasdaq up 4.7 percent. More telling though, a couple of things that traders are really talking about. Cisco, Oracle, Sun, Intel all coming out this week with fairly positive things to say about their business, whether it's stabilized or more predictability returning, which Sun said. On top of that, you had the Nasdaq up, breaking through its 200-day moving average and staying above that with today's trading. And that's something a lot of guys are focusing on.
DOBBS: And the big board?
CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: They didn't get through the 200-day moving average. That's something that a lot of people are keeping their eye on. A little bit more timid there, the gains are, but still a two percent gain for the week. Transports were up more than four percent. Small caps up were up more than four percent.
So there is some strength. There's money going into different sectors.
DOBBS: Money going in. What's the driver?
ROMANS: Well, nobody wants to be, you know, the last person on the ship that's going to sail. You know, that's what you keep hearing over and over again. They don't want to miss a recovery next year.
DOBBS: And you guarantee this will sail?
ROMANS: Well, that's the question. That's why they see the data like they did today and some people got a little bit nervous and said, "OK, I've made some bets. I'm going sit here and just see how it pans out for the next few days, next few reports."
CLARKIN: Lack of alternatives as well.
ROMANS: Right.
CLARKIN: These stocks still looking pretty attractive.
DOBBS: Jan?
JAN HOPKINS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: People do want to own stocks, it seems, at least until the end of the year. Bond market today sold off quite sharply and has for the last three days. It's down a half a percentage point in like the last three days. So that doesn't provide a lot of support for stocks. The other thing, Halliburton was down 40 percent today. It's just above $10. And a lot of people are expecting that Halliburton might have to file Chapter 11 bankruptcy because of asbestos claims. So this is one to watch next week.
DOBBS: Halliburton, the company that Vice President Dick Cheney was running up...
HOPKINS: That's right. And this is a problem with a subsidiary of Dresser. This was a deal that Cheney did.
DOBBS: And the fact is, it's -- this has not been a good few weeks here for the state of Texas and the energy industry. HOPKINS: That's right.
DOBBS: Your thoughts?
HAYS: This rise in bond yields has got to be frustrating for the Federal Reserve, because think about it. The key short-term rate, the Fed Funds rate, goes from 6.5 percent to 2 percent in less than a year. And long-term rates have been volatile, but you know, with the 30-year bond back well up into the mid -- what 5.50?
HOPKINS: That's right.
HAYS: The 10-year note back up around 5 percent. They want to get the long-term rates down, to keep the home refinancings going, to keep the corporate borrowers able to borrow at low rates. These aren't so high, but the long end is not helping the Fed.
DOBBS: What happens Tuesday?
HOPKINS: Fed cuts.
ROMANS: 25 basis points.
CLARKIN: Quarter.
HAYS: 25.
DOBBS: No 50s? I'll throw in a 50.
HOPKINS: Bob Reager (ph) at Reed Fund is with you on that one. He said he wouldn't be surprised by a 50 basis point cut.
DOBBS: Terrific. Thank you all, as always.
HOPKINS: Thank you.
DOBBS: Coming up next, to many viewers, the commercials during the Super Bowl are just as interesting as game, well to a few viewers, not too many. Many advertisers are passing on one of the biggest TV, nonetheless. We'll have that story next.
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DOBBS: A lot of pressure building on Fox Sports to sell Super Bowl ads. Some media buyers saying up to a third of that commercial time still unsold. Fox says the ad recession makes even the world's biggest sporting event a tough sell, insisting however, that up to 80 percent of the game is sold out at $2 million per 30-second spot.
Susan Lisovicz with the story.
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SUSAN LISOVICZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Even during the so-called Super Bowl of commercials, EDS captured viewers' attention with this spoof of Pamplona's famous running of the bulls. But the Texas-based information technology company won't be returning to grid iron's greatest event this season.
DON UZZI, EDS: We felt that the opportunity to go to the Olympics was a better event for us. It gave us 17 days of coverage. It gave us the tonnage to truly get our message across, versus a one- day shot on the Superbowl.
LISOVICZ: Pepsi, Hot Jobs, and Levi Strauss are among the companies that believe Super Bowl XXXVI is a good fit, and are willing to pay upwards of $2 million per 30-second spot. Fox says the first half of the game, traditionally the most desirable, is completely sold out. But even an event expected to draw 140 million viewers, dwarfing the Oscars and the Olympics, has made advertisers think twice. And even Fox has cut back pre-game on one of its most prized programs.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Last year it went from noon till 6:20. Six hour and 20 minute pre-game. This year, at least as it stands now, I think they reserve the right to change their mind, the pre-game starts at 3:00. So they've cut off three hours. And that's due largely, I think, to the softness in the economy. They just simply can't sell three hours of pre-game. It's tough to sell it in any economy and it's especially tough to sell it in this economy.
LISOVICZ: Not so for Anheuser-Busch, returning for a 14th consecutive year and buying 10, 30-second spots.
TONY PONTURO, ANHEUSER-BUSCH COMPANIES: It's basically half the population. We obviously look for it for the 21 plus population. And it not only brings in the sports fan, but it brings in the non-sports fan. And that's unique as well.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
LISOVICZ: So what's the scorecard on Super Bowl XXXVI? It's the latest date ever, February 3. Fox says it's pretty comfortable this far out, but even in better economies, the inventory typically doesn't sell out until a couple of weeks before kickoff. A lot of nail biting -- Lou.
DOBBS: And this price has dropped significantly.
LISOVICZ: Fox says it's holding firm. It hasn't gone up, but it's the second half of the game. You remember last year, it was a blowout?
DOBBS: I've been saying that -- I thought that the number was something around $2.5 million last time?
LISOVICZ: $2 million is what it's going for.
DOBBS: Right.
LISOVICZ: There's no inflation this year.
DOBBS: OK, Susan, thanks a lot. And the co-founder of Home Depot taking on new improvement project. Arthur Blank has agreed to buy the Atlanta Falcons, a professional team, $545 million the price. The Falcons have been one of the least successful franchises in NFL history, making it to the Super Bowl only once since they were founded back in '65. The NFL must approve the deal.
(PREVIEW "WOLF BLITZER REPORTS")
DOBBS: Coming up next, we'll take a look at your thoughts and a bit of what to expect next week. It's going to be a big week. Stay with us.
ANNOUNCER: Monday on LOU DOBBS MONEYLINE, the stadium naming curse. Companies once flush with cash pay top dollar to put corporate logos on stadiums across the country, now find they need the capital more than ever. Monday on LOU DOBBS MONEYLINE.
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DOBBS: Next week, Fed policymakers will be meeting in Washington to determine the direction of interest rates. We'll know their answer at 2:15 Eastern Tuesday. Other news on the economy next week, including the Producer and Consumer Price Index Reports. And Oracle will be reporting, amongst others, quarterly results.
Taking a look at your thoughts, Margaret Lindsey in Farmbill, Virginia writing in to say it's unbelievable no one spotted the problems at Enron before the company fell apart. Margaret places a great deal of blame on Enron's accountant, Andersen, writing into say, "Arthur Andersen should have its license to practice public accounting stripped. Those of us who worked very hard to earn the designation C.P.A., feel our names are being dragged through the mud."
William Carpenter in Niagara, Wisconsin also wants to put the "P" back in C.P.A. He writes, "Lou, based on Enron's errors, how are we to trust other corporate financial statements?" Enron's collapse has once again brought up the question of conflict of interest in accounting firms, often make more money selling clients advice than auditing, a so-called full service relationship. And the fact is, all of the major accounting firms now addressing the issues surrounding Enron.
Scott Hunter in San Antonio, Texas wants to know, "When watching a CEO interview, what exactly should I be looking for? Each answer appears to be well-rehearsed, almost never addresses the question." Scott asks, "How am I supposed to be looking for certain inflections, gestures, eye movement, etcetera?"
Well, Scott, there are very few secret codes we're aware of. I assure you we've been looking for a very long time, but as an investor or potential investor, we suggest you keep your eye on both the management and the bottom line.
That's MONEYLINE for tonight. We thank you for joining us. Please send us your thoughts to moneyline@cnn.com. I'm Lou Dobbs in New York. Have a very pleasant weekend. Good night from New York.
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