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American Morning

Interview of Jessica Stern, Nuclear Terrorism Expert

Aired December 10, 2001 - 09:25   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: Over the past few days, we've been hearing reports that al Qaeda terrorists may now have the ability to deliver a "dirty" nuclear weapon to targets inside the United States. Experts say if a crude bomb with nuclear material exploded in any American city, only a handful of people would die immediately. It is the hundreds who would suffer later from radioactive sickness that concerns them most. Joining right now from Boston, we're going to try this again, is Jessica Stern of Harvard University, who has written extensively on terrorism and weapons of mass destruction. Let's see if we can hear you, Jessica. Just let me check in with you to make sure it's all systems go here. You can hear me?

JESSICA STERN, HARVARD UNIVERSITY: Good morning. Yes, I can.

ZAHN: All right. So, Jessica, the last time around, we only got to the point where we said Osama bin Laden, in a statement, declared that he could potentially use nuclear weapons as a deterrent, and I posed the question do you believe him, and you said no. What part of the statement don't you buy?

STERN: I think it's highly unlikely that he has an actual nuclear weapon that could be detonated. However, it's not unlikely that he would have the capacity to disseminate radioactive material, the so-called "dirty bomb."

ZAHN: And how easily done is that?

STERN: Well, unfortunately, it is relatively easily done, if the aim is to scare a large number of people. It's not so easy to use this kind of weapon to kill a large number of people. The radioactive material has to be disseminated in extremely high concentration, and it's also very dangerous for the perpetrator.

ZAHN: Let's talk a little bit about some of the -- what you would need to build this bomb. Uranium, of course, is a critical factor. There was a report just several days ago that Russian police confirmed the arrest of a half dozen men or so who were trying to sell highly-enriched uranium. How easy is it to get your hands on that stuff?

STERN: Well, again we need to distinguish between nuclear weapons usable material, which is what was just found in that smuggling case last week, and radioactive material. There have been approximately 14 cases of material that could actually be used to make a detonatable device that have been seized from the former Soviet Union. This is just the latest case. It's quite alarming, but most nuclear smuggling cases are actually scams. They're radioactive materials that couldn't be used to make a detonatable nuclear bomb, but could be used, potentially, to make a "dirty bomb," a radioactive dispersal device.

ZAHN: Let's move to any sort of relationship that can be established between Pakistani nuclear scientists and members of al Qaeda. You've heard reports of those linkages, and we know the Pakistanis have not allowed for kind of -- inspections of their facilities that some U.S. officials would want. What should that tell us?

STERN: Well, I don't think it should tell us all that much. The Pakistanis are deeply sensitive that U.S. officials might actually be spying on their facilities with the aim of having information that could be used to take those facilities out if necessary. There's no question that parts of Pakistan's intelligence agency, the I.S.I., are very sympathetic to the Taliban and even to al Qaeda, but it doesn't mean that parts of the Pakistani government aren't also trying to fight that trend. In fact the Pakistani --

ZAHN: Final question -- yeah, go ahead, go ahead.

STERN: Go ahead. Yeah the Pakistani --

ZAHN: I just wanted -- carry on. I know there's a little bit of a delay here. Finish your thought.

STERN: Okay. The Pakistani government has, in fact, asked for assistance. They realize they have a kind -- what we call an insider threat, the possibility that people working in their nuclear program who might be sympathetic to al Qaeda or the Taliban might not -- they might not be reliable. They might pass information or material to al Qaeda and they have actually asked for assistance in coming up with programs to help them prevent that kind of eventuality.

ZAHN: Final question for you this morning. There are folks out there who say if Osama bin Laden had the capability to make a "dirty bomb," wouldn't he have used it already? How would you answer the question?

STERN: Well, it's not easy to do this. I would not assume that the fact that he hasn't used a radioactive dispersal device means that his group is not capable of it. When comes to actual nuclear, weapon, however, I do think that we shouldn't be that worried about it. It's much harder than people commonly believe to make such a device.

ZAHN: Jessica Stern of Harvard University. Again, thanks for your patience. We were delighted to finally be able to hear you Again, appreciate your time this morning.

STERN: Thank you very much.

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