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American Morning
Friday Media Roundtable: The Bin Laden Video
Aired December 14, 2001 - 08:43 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: Welcome back, the world is weighing in this morning on the Osama bin Laden tape, with outrage over its chilling contentand questions about its authenticity.
Time now for our Friday media roundtable. Joining us is Michael Kramer from the "New York Daily News", Rich Lowry from the "National Review" and Michael Elliot from "Time". Welcome all.
I wanted to start off by playing a small portion of the interview now, where Osama bin Laden makes some sort of reference to dreams. And I want to hear your analysis after we all listen together here.
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(END VIDEO CLIP)
ZAHN: So let's talk a little bit about visions this morning, and the relevance of what Osama bin Laden say -- all of you are laughing, you are scowling -- look all three of them are laughing out loud.
MICHAEL ELLIOT, "TIME": You want the Freudian or the Jungian?
ZAHN: I'll take either one of you here this morning. You want to start?
ELLIOT: I thought it was one of the most interesting people in the whole tape. It was kind of like, my dreams bigger than your dream. And hey, you should hear Doud's dream. You know and then eventually bin Laden had to say, enough with the dreams all ready; you know. I mean, it was very -- I mean in a tape that was often chilling and disgusting, and just kind of made everyone kind of suddenly pull up short to realize the horror of it, there was some truly wacky moments. And the dream -- the dream sequence was one of them. I don't know what it means. I don't know the significance the dream plays in Islamic thought or what have you, but I was -- I was fascinated by it.
RICH LOWRY, "NATIONAL REVIEW": I don't think anyone expected the tape to be so psychedelic. It kinds of makes you wonder, what's the Arabic word for "Dude." It was very, very strange. But you know, I don't think we should necessarily be surprised at how self-satisfied he was.
Because his guys had carried out this operation in a way that was a spectacular success. And terrorists from the beginning, way back in the 19th century, they talked about the propaganda of the deed. And that's what this was for Osama bin Laden. It was a way to dramatize our weakness and our strengths, so I don't think we should be surprised that he was extremely proud of it.
ZAHN: Now did you find him cynical in this tape, because we had some Arabic scholars on this morning. Now let me ask you this. And they said, when they actually listened to this tape in Arabic, that they felt he, in fact, showed respect for the hijackers. And the other interpretation we've heard of this tape is that Osama bin Laden showed great contempt for them, that he made it quite clear they didn't know they were going to become martyrs.
MICHAEL KRAMER, "NEW YORK DAILY NEWS": This is right up the alley of the difference between Arabic and English, across a bunch of statements. We have this discussion every time we have to talk about Yasser Arafat, and what he really said, and what he really meant.
Who are we to fault, you know, the Arabist scholar who says that it really should be interpreted that way? From an American point of view, and I think we were one of the audiences for this, cynicism is exactly the right way to receive it.
But I think there were other audiences, at least for the release of it. I think as the war moves on now, to a second stage, it is very important to make sure that the coalition such as it is hangs together. So there is the Arab part of the coalition, that you want to believe the worst about bin Laden. There's also the Europeans, who are going to have to be doing a lot of police work and crossing a lot of boundaries in their own countries. And they need to realize that this guy is as bad as everybody says.
ZAHN: Do you think this tape proves that?
ELLIOT: I think Michael's point is an extremely important one in that regard. And I think the tape, coupled with something else, really goes some way in kind of convincing the Europeans and others that this is a bad guy. And what he's doing really has to be resisted. And the other element that is important is that he's a loser in the war.
Because we are fighting and winning, and have nearly won this phase of the war. So, I think the tape is a message that he's a mass- murderer, which is extremely important to get across to our European friends and to moderates in the Arab world, the Islamic world. Coupled with the idea that he's a loser.
LOWRY: That's the most important geopolitical point here, and I think Michael, it goes to your point about the coalition. The coalition will stick with us as long as we are winning and successful. Prior to the War in Afghanistan, Pakistanis were saying, you can't topple the Taliban. You know, our domestic politics will explode here in Pakistan. Well, what's happened?
There are no longer any pro-bin Laden protests in Pakistan or anywhere else in the Arab world, because he looks so weak. Because he looks like a loser, he's had to run and hide.
KRAMER: And he said so himself in the tape -- wonderful, wonderful line where he said, if people have a choice between a weak horse and a strong horse, by nature they like the strong horse. We're the strong horse here.
LOWRY: That's why, if we decide to go after Iraq and go after Saddam Hussein and are actually successful, the Arab world will except it just fine.
ZAHN: Can I move you on another issue? This is an issue I know, that upset you greatly when you were covering Desert Storm. There was always a battle about how much access you give the journalists. I want to play a quick soundbite from Tory -- what is Tory's last name ...
KRAMER: Clarke...
ZAHN: Thank you, very much -- who -- who will talk about her understanding the concerns of journalists here. I'll read it to you.
"We owe you an apology... The last couple of days have revealed severe shortcomings in our preparedness to support news organizations in their efforts to cover U.S. military operations in Afghanistan." Victoria Clark, Pentagon Spokeswoman.
KRAMER: That is putting it mildly.
ZAHN: How bad has it been out there for journalists?
KRAMER: It's been bad enough, I think, that some journalists have felt that they had to go out in search of the story without any protection, and some of them have gotten killed. I think this is just a shortsighted and counterproductive policy, both for them and for us.
I think for the government it has the effect, among other things, of doing away with any good will we might have for the military. And there are times when things go rough in war, or rough in politics or rough in government when you really need to turn to the press, if you're in the government. And say, "hey guys, just believe us on this one." That's gone.
And number two -- just let me make this quick point -- for us it not only increases the us versus them mentality, but it causes us to do these kinds of wacky things. And I just think it is ridiculous.
ZAHN: We have merged two NBC news stories here together. NBC announcing it is going to run liquor ads for the first time in many years. They will air after 9:00, they will use actors over the age of 30. Katie Couric, allegedly, about to sign a new contract. You want to merge those two together, Michael? What's going on here?
ELLIOT: You don't think these have anything to do with each other, do you?
ZAHN: I know nothing. I see no evil, I hear no evil. ELLIOT: The absolute Katie Couric joke. I actually don't have any great objection to liquor ads after 9:00, or maybe even before 9:00. But, Michael said, just because you're European ...
KRAMER: No, I said you're a Brit.
ELLIOT: Brit, that's right (UNINTELLIGIBLE). It seems to me that, you know, we're grown up enough to be able to have liquor ads on TV.
ZAHN: What about this, what about this new contract?
LOWRY: I want to go back quickly to Michael's point. If journalists aren't going to be sympathetic to the military now, they never will be. On the alcohol ads, I agree with Michael. You know, the networks are selling sex after 9:00, so why can't they sell alcohol or even cigarettes for that matter?
ZAHN: What do you think of this new contract, Michael? You've about six seconds to weigh in on that?
KRAMER: I think the only thing wrong with it is, that you deserve more?
ZAHN: I knew I always liked you, Michael Kramer.
KRAMER: Can we come back?
ZAHN: You can all come back, same time, next week. Thank you, all. It's nice to have all of your perspectives this morning.
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