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Technology Behind Tracing Bin Laden's Radio Transmissions

Aired December 17, 2001 - 10:20   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: All right. The hunt for bin Laden still centered around Tora Bora. We've had some reports this weekend that he fled the area. But there are also clues leading back to that mountainous labrynth. U.S. officials say they've intercepted radio transmissions of bin Laden issuing orders to troops near Tora Bora.

Let's talk more about this and how legitimate they may or may not be. Paul Ginsberg, radio detective and an expert in radio forensics. Paul, good morning to you.

PAUL GINSBERG, PROFESSIONAL AUDIO LABS: Good morning.

HEMMER: I didn't know people like you existed. But now I do. Good morning, nice to see you.

GINSBERG: Behind the scenes.

HEMMER: I got you. First of all, in a general sense, how do you make this determination?

GINSBERG: Well, there are a number of factors, of course. You try to take into account any intelligence that have you from the field, either from al Qaeda defectors or covert operatives as to the actual location. You want to know what the last known position was of the -- of the subject. The character of the intercepted transmissions. That, is, are they consistent with the type of transmissions that you know have been coming from equipment that is known to be in that area?

There -- there are a number of factors also, with respect to the actual voice, and voice identification can be done using electronic spectral analysis, and at -- at the best you can either make a positive identification, a probable identification, no determination, a probable exclusion or a positive exclusion.

HEMMER: Let me stop you just there. I want to get this straight here. Back on that -- that full screen graphic that we were just showing. Let's put that back up there. When we look at this, what's critical for your job?

GINSBERG: Okay, well, all of the information is really critical. I like to know everything I can about a certain -- either -- whether it's a tape that has come to me for analysis...

HEMMER: Sure.

GINSBERG: ...or a radio transmission. What do we know about the type of equipment that's in the area? How was it transmitted? Was there additional information available from people? And also, was this -- the bottom line is -- was this a red herring or an actual transmission? Sometimes, when somebody is desperate, he will use a radio transmission or make a statement where he might not otherwise. And we see this in the case of organized crime -- people and narcotics people -- where they ordinarily would not talk about what they're working on or what they're doing. The criminal activity...

HEMMER: So it is possible then, he could lead a trail of bread crumbs out there that aren't really legitimate, right?

GINSBERG: That's correct. Now, there is a -- tool or tools available to the examiner to determine whether a transmission is either taped or live. And it's possible that there could be a number of phony transmissions being made.

HEMMER: Sure. Sure. Paul, you brought some -- some communication devices with you today. Go ahead and show us those.

GINSBERG: I do. Okay. This is a familiar point-to-point walkie-talkie, consumer-type device that lots of kids have.

HEMMER: Sure.

GINSBERG: And this has range of up to two miles. It's just simply one unit to another unit. This one is a more sophisticated unit that uses a repeater. And, a repeater is a device that takes a small signal and amplifies it. Usually, it's on a high location, like a building top or a mountain top. And this would be give the user a range of several hundred miles. And, finally, of course, (AUDIO GAP) cell phone and satellite telephone system, a little bigger than this, would give the user worldwide capability.

HEMMER: Listen, Paul, I know you're in New York, you're not in Afghanistan, but we know that bin Laden has been careful about his communication. He knows he's being tracked. The surveillance is intense. Wouldn't it make sense that a man who wanted to avoid capture or the possible termination of his life would be a lot more careful than to talk on a radio?

GINSBERG: Absolutely. I would think that he would have anyone around him as his relay talker. Of course, again, if he becomes desperate or if there's something urgent or some information that he needed to impart or some coding or decoding that he himself felt that he alone wanted to be able to do, to retain control or for whatever reason, then he might slip and make a transmission.

HEMMER: And quickly here, you use some past voice examples to compare that voice I'm sure, videotape. Other things that may have been intercepted over the past several years.

GINSBERG: Absolutely. He has, of course, made statements that he wanted to disseminate, and so they are nice and clear and easy to use as exemplars.

HEMMER: Well, I hope our technology's better than that. Paul Ginsberg, many thanks. Okay, interesting study there.

GINSBERG: My pleasure.

HEMMER: Many thanks, Paul. Okay.

GINSBERG: Thank you.

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