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American Morning

Visualization Can Help Americans Shape Their World

Aired December 17, 2001 - 09:44   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: We're going to take another look, now, at the Osama bin Laden tape. We couldn't help but notice how many references there were to visions and dreams. Seven separate references by one count, but bin Laden never mentions his own dreams, he refers only to the dreams and visions of others.

We're going to take a look at that tape one more time to note some of those references. First, he mentions a dream about a soccer game where the players on his team show up as pilots. Then an unidentified man off camera talks about a vision he had before September 11th of a plane crashing into a tall building. A Saudi man also, then, refers to visions one person had of a plane that was long and wide. Then bin Laden said he started worrying the terror plot could be -- quote -- be revealed if everyone starts seeing it in their dreams.

So, is there any substance to any of this? To help us answer that, two women who have written extensively about visualization. From the Detroit area, Marianne Williamson, author of "Healing the Soul of America" joins us. Good to see you again.

MARIANNE WILLIAMSON, AUTHOR, "HEALING THE SOUL OF AMERICA": Hi. Nice to see you too.

ZAHN: And from San Francisco this morning, where it's much earlier there, Shakti Gawain who wrote the most well known book on the matter in 1978 called "Creative Visualization." Nice to see you as well.

SHAKTI GAWAIN, AUTHOR, "CREATIVE VISUALIZATIONS": Thank you.

ZAHN: All right. Mary Ann, I want to start with you this morning. What do you think the importance is of these dream references, and specifically the fact that Osama bin Laden never refers to his own, he refers to other people's dreams.

WILLIAMSON: Well, I don't think that really means anything. I mean, Americans have dreams too, obviously. We just don't make it a part of our social dialogue, perhaps the way those people do. I think what's an important conversation for us, though, is not the dreams while we sleep, but the fact that through a kind of conscious dreaming, the use of our consciousness and imagination, we can dream of a world in which there is no terrorism, and I think that that's the significance of this conversation. That the American mind can expand to the realization that there are other modes of awareness than just a left brain rationalistic perspective, that there are worlds, as it were. You know, we're told that we only use 90 percent of our brain cells. So, conscious dreaming, imagining, prayer, meditation on a world at peace is, I think, a much more productive and substantial conversation than, you know, the terrorists happened to dream that there would be this horrible event.

ZAHN: Yeah, maybe a more productive conversation, but if you were to take what you just said seriously, then you'd also have to confront the reality that Osama bin Laden and his gang could just as effectively try to initiate negative things through that same process.

WILLIAMSON: Well, I think, in fact, they have. I mean, I think that that is the point here. You know what terrorism is -- is a phenomenon where an emotion, in this case hatred, has been harnessed. It has been harnessed as a political and social force, albeit wicked. And I think the point is that we can do the same with love, we can do the same with peace.

Our yearning for peace, our yearning for a world at peace, can be harnessed, and turned into a political and social force just as other people's yearning for vengeance has been harnessed, and in ways, harnessed by visions in theirs. By the way, I think that the fact that many people dreamed in that part of the world of the disasters of September 11th doesn't mean that people didn't dream in this part of the world that something terrible might occur. Not dreaming as in hoping.

ZAHN: Yeah, Shakti, take that on for a moment, because, first of all, you know, no doubt, there are going to be people in our audience today that don't believe in this visualization stuff. Is there any scientific evidence that would support the fact that this does work?

GAWAIN: You know, I believe there have been studies about it, but for me, it's a matter of being proved in my own life, and for, you know, 25 years working with thousands and thousands of people all over the world, using this technique. And basically, it is just imagining what you want as if it were already true, and people use this for their own individual personal goals, dreams, and desires, and it seems to be very, very effective. And, we can also, as Marianne is referring to, use it in a collective way as well, to imagine and to dream and vision the things that we want to create in our personal lives, and in our collective life, and in the world.

ZAHN: Now, I know you both passionately believe in this. Marianne, what could you point to scientifically for the doubters out there today, that visualization works. I mean, we've seen best selling books on inner-tennis and inner-skiing and all basically pushing the idea of using visualization to enhance any kind of performance.

WILLIAMSON: I think we are outgrowing a perspective which says that, if you can't prove something scientifically, that it doesn't exist. I can't scientifically prove to you a love between a married couple or love for our children. That's not my field, but it's also not my sense that I have to in order to show something as a meaningful phenomenon. Something doesn't have to be scientifically quantifiable to be real, and people know this.

I also think it's true that many people watching your show right now, already employ basic creative visualization in their lives. They'll go to a therapist or they'll have a friend say, well, tell me about the kind of job that you want. Tell me about the kind of relationship that you want. Tell me what kind of money you would like to have in your life. And people recognize that there is great power in articulating what you want, as opposed to just always trying to fight what you don't want. That's what we're really talking about here.

We live, unfortunately, often in a reactive mode where our energies are often going towards fighting what's not working, and when we live out of a vision of possibility, there is great power here, and what Shakti was just saying is that we already know this as individuals, largely because so many of us read her book "Creative Visualization" years ago, but -- and many people watching this program know that. What we're talking about now is taking the next step, to do this collectively, to envision the kind of world that we want, the kind of society that we want.

ZAHN: All right.

WILLIAMSON: Because peace is more than the absence of war. It is a positive condition.

GAWAIN: May I say something?

ZAHN: Shakti, you get the last word this morning. Absolutely.

GAWAIN: Okay. Well, I think the most important thing that I would like to convey is that just as in our own personal lives, when we have tragic, traumatic events, it's a terrible thing to go through, yet we can learn from these experiences. We can -- they can help us sort out our priorities in life. What really matters, what's really important. What do we want to put our attention to, and we can do that both individually and collectively, so we can learn from these terrible, traumatic events that have happened in our world.

We -- and as individuals, it's helping us get clearer about what do we really want to put our energy into in our life. I know a lot of people are finding they want to be closer to their families, they want more meaningful work. We want to be able to contribute somehow toward making this a better world for all of us, and we can use visualization, once we understand, once this kind of event has caused us to look more deeply in ourselves and in our lives, and we know what we want to create, then we can use these types of techniques to help us create our own vision.

ZAHN: Well, we appreciate both your coming along, Shakti, and Marianne as well.

WILLIAMSON: Thank you. ZAHN: Thank you both --

GAWAIN: Thank you.

ZAHN: -- for coming into the studios early and in your time zones.

GAWAIN: Yes.

ZAHN: Delighted to have both of you with us this morning. Take care. Thank you.

WILLIAMSON: Thank you, Paula.

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