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Lou Dobbs Moneyline
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Aired December 17, 2001 - 18:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ANNOUNCER: This is LOU DOBBS MONEYLINE for Monday, December 17.
Here now, Lou Dobbs.
LOU DOBBS, CNN ANCHOR: Good evening, everyone.
Tonight in the war against terrorism, U.S. special forces, along with anti-Taliban troops, are searching caves and tunnels in the Tora Bora region where al Qaeda and Taliban fighters may still be hiding.
The Pentagon says U.S. war planes have been bombing those areas where they believe the fighters to be located. But despite the shrinking area now under al Qaeda control, there is still no sign of Osama bin Laden.
Five pro-Taliban fighters, including American Taliban John Walker, are now in custody. They're aboard the U.S.S. Peleliu, off the coast of Pakistan.
The Pentagon says as many as 100 Taliban and al Qaeda fighters are now being held by opposition commanders.
The Pentagon also said that it suspects some prisoners have been released by opposition forces as part of certain deals.
The Bush Administration still trying to figure out what to do with John Walker, the American who fought alongside the Taliban. So far, the White House has declined to comment on a Newsweek magazine report that says Walker admitted to being a member of the al Qaeda terrorist network, but it does report that Walker will not be tried in a military tribunal.
After saying Osama bin Laden was almost certainly in the Tora Bora caves last week, American seems to be less certain of his whereabouts today. A handful of prisoners loyal to bin Laden say they believe that he is still hiding in the mountains of Tora Bora, but at least one senior U.S. official says the world's most wanted man may have slipped successfully into Pakistan.
President Bush says either way, bin Laden will be caught.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We get all kinds of reports: that he's in a cave, that he's not in a cave, that he's escaped, that he hasn't escaped.
There's all kinds of speculation. But when the dust clears, we'll find out where he is and he'll be brought to justice.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
DOBBS: The president says the Pakistani government will help track down bin Laden in the event that he has slipped across the Afghan/Pakistani border.
For the first time in more than a decade, the American flag is flying high in the Afghan capital of Kabul. The Stars and Stripes were raised above the U.S. embassy today, and with the words, "We are here, and we are here to stay," James Dobbins, America's special envoy to Afghanistan, declared the embassy open for business.
Dobbins said the embassy's reopening demonstrates America's commitment to helping Afghanistan make the transition from war to peace.
A Marine who was injured by a landmine over the weekend has had his leg amputated. The Marine, as well as two others, were seriously injured when one of them stepped on a mine during a minesweeping operation at Kandahar airport. The Marine was transported from the medical unit at Camp Rhino to a hospital outside Afghanistan, where he is listed tonight in stable condition.
Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld was in Brussels earlier today. He met there with fellow NATO defense ministers. Just yesterday, Rumsfeld met with Afghanistan's new political leaders near Kabul.
Military affairs correspondent Jamie McIntyre is traveling with Secretary Rumsfeld and has this report.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JAMIE MCINTYRE, CNN MILITARY AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Rumsfeld arrived in Brussels with a caution: that while the Taliban have been toppled from power and al Qaeda forces are on the run, the war is by no means over.
DONALD RUMSFELD, U.S. SECRETARY OF DEFENSE: There are still a lot of Taliban in the country, and there still armed. And it's going to take time and energy and effort, and people will be killed in the process of trying to find them and capture them or have them surrender.
MCINTYRE: Rumsfeld told reporters traveling with him to Brussels that 30 or 31 al Qaeda or Taliban have been captured over the last 24 hours, as fighting continues in the White Mountains near Tora Bora.
The U.S. continues to bomb fleeing forces from the air, and U.S. Special Forces and Afghan troops are searching caves and tunnels for the elusive Osama bin Laden.
QUESTION: Did bin Laden escape from the Tora Bora area?
RUMSFELD: That presumes he was there.
QUESTION: Yes, it does.
RUMSFELD: Since we did not know that with precision, and we don't know if he's there now, it would be difficult to answer the question.
QUESTION: Are you saying you don't know where he is?
RUMSFELD: I am saying that it is a question mark as to his exact location. There are people who continue to speculate that he may be in that area, or may have been in that area, or that he may be somewhere else.
My feeling is, until we catch him -- which we will -- we won't know precisely where he was when we catch him.
MCINTYRE: What U.S. troops have found is more intelligence about al Qaeda, including large caches of Chinese ammunition -- raising the question of how it got there.
The U.S. is still trying to sort out who has been captured and who has been killed, and who may have gotten out of Afghanistan. At the airport in Kandahar, U.S. Marines are building a detention facility where some prisoners will be held until the U.S. can interrogate them.
One thing the United States wants to know is whether any opposition groups helped Taliban or al Qaeda leaders escape -- either as part of a surrender deal, or in return for bribes.
Rumsfeld warned if any new officials of the Afghan government were involved in letting terrorists or their backers get away, the U.S. would not, in his words, "be terribly friendly to their aspirations."
Jamie McIntyre, CNN, Brussels.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
DOBBS: Here now to help us assess the military success in Afghanistan and the ongoing hunt for Osama bin Laden and Mullah Mohammed Omar is CNN military analyst, General David Grange.
General, good to have you with us.
RETIRED GENERAL DAVID GRANGE, CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Good evening, Lou.
DOBBS: As we closed out last week, the hopes were that Osama bin Laden had been identified in one area, and that he was about to be captured. Are you surprised by the developments over the weekend? GRANGE: Not really. It sounded like they were close to him, from radio intercepts or just the knowledge of the local Eastern Alliance fighters. They may have picked up indicators and are very familiar with the area.
But I think, like the Secretary of Defense stated earlier, they weren't sure he was there, so they don't know if he even escaped. And he could have been out a long time ago. He could be listening to our conversation right now from Pakistan or some other country. He may be in another complex south of Tora Bora. He may be dead under all this rubble, which will take days to find him during the search process.
DOBBS: General, as brilliant as the strategy has been in the deployment of as few ground forces, and the successes that they have achieved with these few U.S. ground forces, this also really highlights a serious weakness, and that is without sufficient U.S. forces there, it's very difficult to either interdict or to stop Osama bin Laden or Mullah Omar from fleeing, and to have any certain knowledge, right?
GRANGE: I believe you're right. I think the partnership between the anti-Taliban, anti-al Qaeda forces -- the Afghans that take up that fight against that enemy of -- common enemy of both of us -- and our forces are needed to accomplish the mission. And at times, it's questionable whether we have enough forces on the ground to do some of these things.
The tribal boundaries and the will to pursue an enemy -- depending on if they think their tribal objective has been met, and not maybe the Afghan objective or that of the international coalition -- may stop their pursuit in certain areas.
So it's probably very frustrating for our Department of Defense and for the international coalition involved when some of these things happen and we don't have enough forces to block, to pursue or to interdict.
DOBBS: At this point, do you -- we have talked about the use of further -- that is, additional ground forces in Afghanistan. The Pentagon has been circumspect, as one would expect, in declaring whether there would be more or fewer U.S. troops.
What is your best judgment?
GRANGE: Well, again, I'm sure they're not going to let any plans out.
I would think that definitely there's some planning going on. And again, of course, you and I are far removed from the fight. We don't hear explosions, we don't hear bullets zapping overhead. But it would seem to me that additional forces from the international coalition -- Brits, U.S., French, whoever -- would be needed in the area.
But then there's a balance of how far you push into the internal affairs of the Afghan people. Again, we're superimposing our mission of the al Qaeda destruction and the Taliban that protects them destruction upon this ongoing civil war that already existed. So it's a very delicate affair.
But I would think that we would need more troops, especially from the United States of America, in a final phase to reach our objective.
DOBBS: And as we assess this strategy that's been employed in Afghanistan, as we move to the next phase -- as the president suggests that we will -- although in what timeframe, he does not suggest -- moving the war against terror into other countries, do you have a sense of what form that part of the campaign might take?
GRANGE: I think we're in the first phase right now. The intelligence-gathering phase; reconnaissance and assessment teams that may be around the world in other places; coordinating with countries that are friendly to our initiatives -- which would provide, at least in the staging areas, a permissive environment before we go into hostile territory; or even some countries that would be non-permissive -- where we'd have to infiltrate covertly -- or, I should say, clandestinely, or force our way in overtly to do the mission -- I'm sure those plans are underway right now.
DOBBS: General, on a related and somewhat unique topic, "Newsweek" magazine over the weekend reporting a high-ranking U.S. officer had expressed some reservation about the possibility of being called upon to carry out an assassination -- or assassinations -- as a matter of policy: What is your reaction to that -- both the interview, the statements and the policy?
GRANGE: Well, very controversial subject. The -- is the cause just and the act to accomplish just is always debated.
I personally believe in preemptive action, especially to save our own citizens, against a enemy that we have determined was evil and wished us or our allies harm. And it's better to take the fight to the enemy than wait for them to attack us.
So I think that going out and targeting individuals that have been declared enemy is appropriate.
DOBBS: General, thank you very much.
General David Grange.
GRANGE: Thank you.
DOBBS: Well, as we reported, the area around Tora Bora in which al Qaeda forces remain has been reduced considerably.
Nic Robertson is in Tora Bora tonight. And today, in fact, he inspected some of the caves that Osama bin Laden was thought at one time to have been hiding in -- Nic.
NIC ROBERTSON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Lou, it's been almost 24 hours since we've heard any bombing in this area. And the local Eastern Alliance fighters here claim to have now overrun all those al Qaeda camps in the mountains behind me.
We did go up there, and in the caves there, we found one small cave that looked as if it was dug into the mountainside just for people to escape the type of intense bombing that was been going on up there in the last week or so.
Also, we found another cave there that was just jam packed full of ammunition. It was for heavy machine guns. It was all Chinese- made ammunition. There were also mortar rockets in there.
It looked as if Osama bin Laden was preparing that area for a long siege -- a long holdout. But yet, we didn't find any evidence outside the caves that they'd actually really dug in there and had a fight. It appeared as if they'd been bombed and they just fled and left their ammunition there -- fled deeper into the mountains. And that does correlate with what we've been seeing here in the last -- in the last number of weeks.
What isn't adding up at the moment are the figures. We've been told there could be as many as 2,000 al Qaeda -- or were as many as 2,000 al Qaeda hiding out in the mountains. So far, the Eastern Alliance has only shown journalists some handful of prisoners they've taken. They do include Arabs, and they do include Afghans.
Privately, some of those captured al Qaeda forces have told CNN that they believe Osama bin Laden was in the mountains as recently as Saturday, but it is very, very difficult to tell. Certainly Eastern Alliance commanders are saying they don't know where Osama bin Laden is, and they fear that he may have escaped further southwards through the mountains towards the border with Pakistan -- Lou.
DOBBS: Nic, as you point out, very difficult to assess the numbers of al Qaeda. The Pentagon acknowledges that it's almost impossible to make a reliable assessment.
But in the cave complexes that you inspected, is there a suggestion in terms of foodstuffs and materiel, beyond the ammunition and arms, that this was to have been a protracted engagement on the part of the al Qaeda?
ROBERTSON: At this location, we haven't seen stores of food supplies yet, but then we haven't been into what are suspected to be bigger cave systems higher into the mountains. Certainly in al Qaeda strongholds in other locations south of here at Kandahar airport, there were huge supplies of food.
What we have seen -- the ammunition stores in the caves we went into are perhaps indicative of a desire to use the Tora Bora area as a last stronghold, a last area to fight, because the ammunition there is not the type of ammunition you can put in a machine gun or a gun or walk down a high street in any capital around the world -- which as a terrorist -- or suspected terrorist organization that al Qaeda is, that would be their modus operandi up to now. So what else could that -- all that weaponry do but otherwise provide a last defense and a last stronghold and a last holdout?
But they don't seem to have used it. They do seem to have fled in advance of trying to do that -- Lou.
DOBBS: And in terms of the al Qaeda there, are they also -- as the opposition forces are moving through those mountains, are they also being joined by U.S. Special Forces? Have you run into U.S. Special Forces -- or Special Operations, to extend the branch of service -- in any noticeable numbers?
ROBERTSON: Well, we are aware that there are U.S. Special Forces and British Special Forces in these mountains. There are three different commanders in this area. We understand that U.S. Special Forces have been with one commander, British Special Forces with another commander in the mountains here, and that there have been differences between these commanders.
Now, we understand the Special Forces have been close to the front, that they have been helping guide and direct some of the precision bombing that's been going on here recently, and are very likely now to be at the forefront of the teams making the first initial assessment of the damage, of what's left behind, of who may be left behind in the caves, the potential information that could be garnered from prisoners when they -- when they're being interrogated -- so far, we're only hearing that they're being interrogated by Eastern Alliance forces.
But certainly they are here, they have been here. They do keep a very low profile, so it is difficult for us to see them. But they do, and are, still -- they do -- they have been and are still operating in the mountains here -- Lou.
DOBBS: Nic Robertson, from Tora Bora.
Thank you, Nic.
Well, on Wall Street today, a rally -- a rally driven by two big deals in entertainment and biotechnology -- Vivendi Universal buying the entertainment of USA Networks, paying a billion -- $10 billion, rather -- and biotechnology giant Amgen buying Immunex, paying $16 billion.
As a result, a rally. The Dow up 80 points, the NASDAQ up 34, gaining two percent on the day. The S&P 500 rose 11 points.
Coming up next here, the president has said this war against terrorism will not be a short one. Tonight, we'll tell you how long this campaign is likely to last. Some experts say maybe as long as the Cold War.
We'll also have a report for you on the high technology of this war -- high-flying birds of prey being used to hunt down, among others, Osama bin Laden.
And we'll take a look at what Florida's doing to bring tourists back to the Sunshine State.
All of that and more still ahead.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Four lesions have been removed from the president's face. The White House made that news public today, although those lesions were removed last week.
Two lesions on his cheeks were described as pre-cancerous, the other two as non-cancerous. The White House said such lesions are extremely common for men who have spent a lot of time outdoors.
Meanwhile, the White House is pushing hard for that economic stimulus package, urging Democrats to support the Bush plan that would provide tax credits to displaced workers.
For more on that, we are joined by senior White House correspondent John King, at the White House -- John.
JOHN KING, CNN SR. WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Lou, the president himself has been working the phones, reaching out especially to moderate Democrats in the Senate. The negotiations continue tonight. Still, though, no agreement on a stimulus package.
The president has said it is a major priority. He wants to sign that legislation before Christmas; says another 300,000 Americans could lose their jobs if there is not an agreement between the Administration and the Congress.
As the negotiations continue, the White House getting involved in a bit of a political debate with the Senate Democrats. The White House Press Secretary Ari Fleischer saying today there could easily be a compromise and a bill on its way to the president if the Senate Democratic Leader Tom Daschle would just let the legislation get to the floor.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ARI FLEISCHER, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: It's an important week to measure whether progress is being made in the Senate, and the president will continue to do everything he can to help the Senate to make progress on the policy front, particularly on the economic stimulus. The talks are underway on the stimulus, and the president remains very hopeful that a stimulus can be agreed to this week to help America's unemployed workers.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: Among those the president has been reaching out to is Senator John Breaux of Louisiana, a centrist Democrat in the Senate who also has been meeting with House Republicans. House Republicans thinking about bringing to the floor this week another compromise proposal of their own. Senator Breaux says he's not trying to carry the president's water, but he is trying to broker a compromise.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SENATOR JOHN BREAUX (D), LOUISIANA: Well, it's not cooperating with the White House. It's trying to bring everybody to the table to try and reach a compromise.
I think that Senator Daschle has said he is flexible on a number of areas, and I've taken those flexibilities and tried to put it into a package that we as Democrats could accept, but also a significant number of Republicans.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: Still unresolved issues over unemployment benefits -- extended unemployment benefits, not only to those thrown out of work by the September 11 attacks, but those thrown out of work dating back to the beginning of the recession in March. The biggest hang-up right now, just how to give extended health care benefits to those affected both by the terrorist strikes and the recession.
Again, the negotiations continuing tonight. The president hoping to move the ball tomorrow morning. He has coffee with the bipartisan congressional leadership here at the White House -- Lou.
DOBBS: Including, I presume, Tom Daschle.
KING: Including Tom Daschle. Little bit of contention in that relationship of late. Usually in Washington, the calendar forces a compromise. Congress wants to go home for the Christmas holidays. We'll see in the next day or so.
DOBBS: Yes, this is where we can safely say God bless the calendar.
John, thanks. John King from the White House.
Well, as we've been reporting, the hunt for Osama bin Laden is continuing tonight. But even if he is found, President Bush has made it clear that this war against terrorist is global and it will continue for many years to come.
Kitty Pilgrim talked with a number of geopolitical experts who say this war could last as long as the Cold War.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KITTY PILGRIM, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): President Bush has said repeatedly this isn't going to be a quick war or any easy one. He said it again on Monday.
BUSH: Osama bin Laden is going to be brought to justice. It may happen tomorrow, it may happen in a month, it may happen in a year.
PILGRIM: And in terms of defeating all terrorist threats, scholars are now drawing analogies to the Cold War -- a conflict that lasted decades.
The analogy because both are fought not over territory, but over ideological differences.
TOM NICHOLS, NAVAL WAR COLLEGE: It is just as important a conflict as the Cold War was because we're fighting for our way of life. There's no second prize here, and there's no second chance. Either our way of life is going to prevail or their way of life is going to prevail. Just like in the Cold War, this is about freedom versus tyranny, and we just can't afford to lose.
PILGRIM: Some Islamic experts say the United States has already made impressive headway in undermining the ideological underpinnings of al Qaeda by the show of force in Afghanistan.
For example, in his videotape, bin Laden makes the comment that if people see two horses -- one weak and one strong -- they will naturally be drawn to the strong one.
HILLEL FRADKLIN, ETHICS & PUBLIC POLICY CENTER: He's exactly correct. That's the way of the world, and it's especially so in parts of the world where more or less everything turns on power and force, as it does in many parts of the Muslim world. We have shown such considerable power and force, I think makes us the strong horse and on Osama bin Laden's own logic, many people will fall away from him and fall away from the terrorist groups.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PILGRIM (on camera): In terms of duration, most agree this will last probably for years. Now, in terms of cost, Cold War planners had to be ready for any number of conflicts around the world. In this one, so far, the United States has control over when and where to fight terrorism next -- Lou.
DOBBS: Kitty, thank you very much. Kitty Pilgrim.
Well, tonight, Americans living in Haiti are being urged to stay indoors. This warning follows a coup attempt against President Jean Bertrand Aristide before dawn. Armed commandos stormed the National Palace in Port-au-Prince. Five people, including one of the gunmen, were killed. President Aristide was not in the palace at the time.
The coup attempt angered Aristide loyalists who were protesting in the streets. They burned buildings, vowing revenge against those attempting the coup.
Well, despite bad weather and amidst heavy security, the space shuttle Endeavour returned home today. Endeavour touched down in Florida at 12:55 Eastern time. Heavy cloud cover over Cape Canaveral almost scratched the landing, but at literally the last minute, the shuttle broke through the clouds and landed safely. On board Endeavour, the three astronauts who witnessed the September 11 attacks against America from space.
And now, this word from space: The world's first completely made-in-space television commercial will air in Japan next year. This commercial will feature a Russian cosmonaut gulping down a Japanese sports drink called Fokari Sweat (ph). It's better than it sounds to the English ear. The commercial cost three-quarters of a million dollars to make. Japan's space agency chipping in for its production.
Still ahead here, the latest developments in the war against terrorism and the meticulous search for traces of Osama bin Laden.
We'll also have a report on the high-technology birds of prey being used in the war against terror. We'll tell you how they're being used in the hunt for the Taliban and al Qaeda fighters and Osama bin Laden.
Florida's tourism industry suffered, of course, after the September 11 attacks against the United States. We'll tell you how Florida is coping heading into the crucial winter tourist season. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Tonight, in the war against terrorism, the Pentagon says pockets of resistance remain in the Tora Bora mountains. American war planes have been bombing cave complexes and al Qaeda forces over the past 48 hours.
The Pentagon also saying a number of pro-Taliban prisoners have been taken into custody, and that five of them, including American Taliban John Walker, are now held in custody aboard the U.S.S. Peleliu, where they are being interrogated.
We will have the very latest for you in war against terrorism in just a moment.
Should he try to escape, Osama bin Laden not only faces incredibly brutal terrain, but the extraordinary and relentless use of high-flung technology day and night.
Steve Young has the story of America's birds of prey.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
STEVE YOUNG, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): He may run, but Osama bin Laden may find it hard to hide from the newest generation of pilotless reconnaissance planes.
They've grown up from the practice drones of decades ago to what are now called unmanned aerial vehicles, crammed with microelectronics and bristling with high-resolution cameras.
In Afghanistan, the military is using two UAV systems. This one, from General Atomics, costs about $4 million each. Northrop Grumman's can run more than $30 million apiece, depending on the accessories.
It can spot bin Laden in any weather, and even at night, if he moves above ground.
CARL JOHNSON, GLOBAL HAWK PROGRAM DIRECTOR: The infrared can be used at night to give a near picture-quality image from heat sources. And then, in the event that clouds come over, the synthetic aperture radar can penetrate the clouds.
YOUNG: It's flown on missions that can last more than 30 hours, unseen and unheard to those on the ground, because it cruises at a 12 mile high altitude. But from that great distance, it can zoom in on scenes as small as one square yard.
Predator missions to pick up bin Laden's trail are limited to shorter and lower flights.
THOMAS J. CASSIDY, PRESIDENT & CEO, GENERAL ATOMICS: The day color television cameras and the infrared cameras can certainly see people walking on the ground, they can see vehicles. You can almost read license plates, depending on your altitude.
YOUNG: The UAVs can be pre-programmed to do their search sweep, or a ground pilot can closely control the flight, using instruments and an out-the-windshield view.
(on camera): If anything, bin Laden has proved to be elusive, but if the UAVs do pick up his trail, those images will go live to Washington, command centers around the world and gunships flying over Afghanistan -- Lou.
DOBBS: Well, so far he appears to have alluded the UAVs.
YOUNG: The technology has not caught his trail yet.
DOBBS: And how many of these are being used now over Afghanistan?
YOUNG: We don't know. The manufacturer says...
(CROSSTALK)
YOUNG: The Air Force is the customer. And the Air Force is not telling us.
DOBBS: Bin Laden in the sights of one these, truly one yard?
YOUNG: That's what we are told.
DOBBS: OK. Steve Young, thank you.
After a sharp drop in air travel, Continental Airlines is showing encouraging signs today. Continental reestablished its service within Florida, a state whose No. 1 industry, of course, is tourism. With just eight days remaining until Christmas, Florida faces its crucial winter travel season.
John Zarrella reports on tourism in the Sunshine State.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JOHN ZARRELLA, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): George Leung said no. He wasn't going to let fear wash away his vacation plans.
GEORGE LEUNG, TOURIST: I just felt that I can't always be hiding. And I figure I need a vacation. So I'm taking the chance.
ZARRELLA: Leung, from New York, flew to Miami with his family to soak up the tropical sun and dig their toes in the sands of South Beach. The problem is, there still are not enough Leung families out there to jump-start Florida's No. 1 and most important industry: tourism.
Ask hotel owner Judith Berson.
JUDITH BERSON, HOTEL OWNER: We don't have heavy industry like the Northeast. And so it's very devastating when there are no tourists.
ZARRELLA: Berson's Edison Hotel is doing much better now than immediately after 9/11. But empty tables at cafes and restaurants are telling.
"Getting better," "looking up" are the most used phrases by tourism officials across the state. In Orlando, where hotel occupancy rates are down 12 percent from a year ago, an ad campaign called "Family Time, Family Place" has been hugely successful. The television and print ads target people living in markets close enough to Orlando that they can drive.
The $5 million campaign is, Orlando officials say, paying for itself thousands of times over just in tourism increases from Miami and Atlanta.
JOSE ESTORINA, ORANGE COUNTY VISITORS BUREAU: Those two markets combined, with that incremental level of visitation, translates to over $170 million of economic impact in our community.
ZARRELLA: For Florida tourism, the winter months make or break the industry. The Orlando theme parks are adding hundred of temps for the holidays, expecting decent crowds, but not magical. It's still not clear how the 9/11 events will impact the European and Latin- American travelers who have to fly to get here.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ZARRELLA: But most people in the U.S. will be driving. AAA says 79 percent of Christmas/New Year's travelers will get to their destinations by car. That's up 4 percent from a year ago. And it's been the drop in gasoline prices that has fueled the modest tourist recovery.
This is John Zarrella reporting live from Miami -- Lou.
DOBBS: John, thank you very much.
Coming up next here: the latest developments in the war against terrorism. We'll have an update for you on the search for Osama bin Laden and Mullah Mohammed Omar. Also, a French media giant expanding its reach in the United States: Vivendi paying more than $10 billion for USA Networks. And Barry Diller gets quite a job out of the deal. We'll have that story for you.
The Enron case heard on Capitol Hill -- my next guest will testify tomorrow. And he says another corporate disaster like this one could happen again. We will find out why next. ANNOUNCER: Next, Lou talks with a man who will testify before the Senate on Enron, Scott Cleland.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: In the war against terrorism tonight, U.S. special forces, anti-Taliban forces searching caves and cave complexes for al Qaeda fighters and, of course, Osama bin Laden. The Pentagon says it is anyone's guess where bin Laden is right now. President Bush says no matter where he is, U.S. forces will eventually get him.
The Pentagon says warplanes have been concentrating on cave and tunnel complexes in the Tora Bora region, where they believe hard-core al Qaeda fighters may still be holed up -- the Pentagon also saying it hopes to gain intelligence from some of the Taliban and al Qaeda prisoners taken in recent days. Five of those prisoners, including American John Walker, are being held on the USS Peleliu off the coast of Pakistan.
The State Department says an envelope containing a white power was opened today in an office belonging to Deputy Secretary of State Richard Armitage. Officials have not yet identified that powder. A senior State Department official says there was a Texas return address on the envelope.
Meanwhile, "The Washington Post" is reporting that genetic fingerprint studies suggest the anthrax mailed to Capitol Hill is identical to stocks kept by the U.S. military since 1980. And those stocks were also derivated from the U.S. Agriculture Department.
Well, my next guest will testify tomorrow on Capitol Hill, testifying before the Senate Commerce Committee in the Enron case. He says there was what he calls a near conspiracy against investigators, leaving them no hope at discovering the truth behind Enron's financial condition.
Scott Cleland is the founder and CEO of the Precursor Group, an independent research company, joining us tonight from Boston.
Scott, good to have you here.
SCOTT CLELAND, CEO, The PRECURSOR GROUP: Thank you, Lou.
DOBBS: A near conspiracy?
CLELAND: Well, I think that's a little hard.
I think what is going -- we have a system that is rampant conflicts of interest, where company interests are put ahead of investors. And we have auditors that are not necessarily looking out for investor interests. We have a system of research analysts that are not looking out. And we have a system of pro forma reporting, of accounting that is a problem as well.
DOBBS: I think a lot of people would have been thrilled if Enron would have let them have some pro forma accounting, don't you? Even that would have been better in many cases.
CLELAND: The problem here, Lou, is, is that the system, the watchdog system, the early warning signals that we're suppose to get -- Enron should have been discovered in '97, '98, '99, or in 2000. But almost all the early-warning systems that we have failed us. And why did they fail us? It's because those critical internal controls weren't looking for out investors, but were looking out for other financial interests.
DOBBS: Well, in point of fact, the SEC is there to look out for investors. So are the state regulatory agencies.
Enron, I think it can be fairly argued, made it pretty clear there was a lot of smoke here, if not fire, because they were well known on Wall Street for not divulging financial information. It is easy, it seems, in one respect, to blame the audit function, to blame the regulators. But Wall Street bought into this so-called trading concept hook, line and sinker.
CLELAND: Exactly.
And that's because the investment research system is driven by banking interests, which are founded by the companies. There is very little objective research that is done. There is very little objective audits. The system is designed to have checks and balances, much like our political system, where we generally don't want somebody reviewing their own work, grading their own papers, hearing their own appeals. Generally, you want checks and balances in the system.
And what problem is, is that, almost at every level, those solid internal controls have been eroded.
DOBBS: All right, we have this situation, Scott. Let's assume -- you're testifying tomorrow. You have Enron, whose investment bankers, J.P. Morgue Chase, Citibank, are also investment bankers. They're also bankers, also standing in line for credit, in the case of one of those institutions. How do you fix that? That is just business in America today, isn't it?
CLELAND: Well, one of the reasons is, is our investment system pays for all of this with commingled commissions. Essentially, banking trading and research is all paid with the same dollar. And whenever you commingle things, the most profitable business drives it. And the most profitable business is banking. And so research is a weak sister to banking. And it does its bidding.
DOBBS: Now, I think that there is plenty of room here, obviously, for oversight and great oversight. But when I look an Enron, I see a business failure: a company run with one model. It didn't work. It came up against market conditions. It came up against its own business model. It had sent signals for at least three years to Wall Street that this is going -- you are going to be playing on the edge if you are buying Enron stock.
CLELAND: I would disagree with you, Lou in the sense that...
DOBBS: OK. We will permit that, Scott.
CLELAND: Yes.
Yes. There were signals that in '97, '98, '99 and 2000, that if somebody was knocking on the door, digging, that this could have been brought to light. And there was no need to have this breathtakingly swift collapse. If you identify problems early -- and that's what system is supposed to do -- is, it doesn't need to collapse if people figure out problems early enough. That is where the system failed us.
DOBBS: Well, the system, looking back -- we begin that process now on Capitol Hill. It ought to be a wonderful adventure, and -- at the same time while the employees and the investors of Enron are left where they were: out of luck.
CLELAND: Well, our motive here is, is that more Enrons will happen if the system doesn't look for them. And they are out there. And we need to strengthen the systems to find them and fix them before they melt down, because
(CROSSTALK)
CLELAND: Thank you.
DOBBS: Scott Cleland, good to have you with us. And thank you.
CLELAND: Thank you.
DOBBS: And good luck tomorrow.
CLELAND: Thanks.
DOBBS: For the fourth year in a row, General Electric is the most respected company in the world. Once again, the now-retired Jack Welch is the most respected leader. The "Financial Times" surveying more than 900 around the world -- the biggest selling point: business strategy, return to investors. Following GE on the list: Microsoft, Sony, Coca-Cola. Rounding out the top 10: Toyota, Nokia, Wal-Mart, Intel and Citigroup.
Still to come, we're going to tell you about a Diller of a deal: Barry Diller selling USA Networks to Vivendi Universal, $10 billion. We'll tell you what this means for Vivendi and, of course, Mr. Diller.
Then, Tom Cruise takes on a Rat Pack and "Harry Potter." We will tell you who came out on top over the weekend.
Our next guest says there is an economic light at the end of the tunnel. He'll tell us why and when next. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: The French media company Vivendi Universal today coming to terms with Barry Diller on a $10 billion deal that will expand Universal's distribution of product in this country.
Peter Viles reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
PETER VILES, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): A deal that was months in the making, but French media giant Vivendi Universal is finally buying back the television assets that Edgar Bronfman Jr. sold to Barry Diller four years ago.
JEAN-MARIE MESSIER, CHAIRMAN & CEO, VIVENDI UNIVERSAL: Putting together Universal Studios Group and USA entertainment assets is an obvious move for both of us, is a natural fit. So if that is obvious and natural, let's do it.
VILES: The price: $10.3 billion. But $7 billion of that is stock Vivendi already holds in USA Networks. In return, Vivendi gets what it sorely needs: distribution for Universal products in the U.S. via Diller's USA Networks. Vivendi last week bought another distribution channel: a 10 percent stake in the satellite provider EchoStar. And Diller will once again run a major Hollywood Studio, Universal, though he took issue with the notion that he is returning to the ranks of media moguls.
BARRY DILLER, Chairman & CEO, USA NETWORKS: I didn't think I really went very far away, to be honest with you. But you all can have your own little ideas about that. I've been reading about all that and it makes me laugh every time I see that.
VILES: Diller can afford to laugh. He is now running two companies, because a big chunk of USA Networks will be renamed USA Interactive and remain independent, with Diller at the helm. That empire includes the Home Shopping Network and Ticketmaster, with a projected revenue of $4.3 billion next year and projected operating cash flow of $620 million.
CHRISTOPHER DIXON, UBS WARBURG: I know it sounds very complicated. But, at the end of the day, the new USA is effectively a much smaller, share-based company with much faster-growing assets. And for Vivendi, they now have a bona fide platform to operate in the television market in North America.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
VILES: This, in many ways, an unusual deal: Barry Diller will be running two separate entities. And at Vivendi, he says he has no employment contract, will be paid no salary, though he will own a $300 million stake in that Vivendi entertainment decision -- Lou.
DOBBS: He sold the car, kept the keys.
VILES: Yes, he did, and has an interest in the car as well: $300 million.
DOBBS: Vivendi gets to ride along. That's a beautiful thing.
VILES: Yes. And he is a good driver.
DOBBS: And he is a heck of a driver and a heck of a deal driver as well.
VILES: Yes, he is.
DOBBS: Pete, thanks.
A solid rally on Wall Street today: two multibillion deals boosting investor confidence, one in entertainment, the other in technology -- the Dow up 80 points, the Nasdaq surging 30 points, gaining 2 percent on the day; the S&P 500 up 11.
Christine Romans at the New York Exchange, Greg Clarkin at the Nasdaq marketsite -- Christine.
CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Lou, not a bad way to start the final full trading week of year. We have a shortened week next week and the week after as well. So, folks are buying stocks here today.
And, after the bell, some news from GE that might help things tomorrow: General Electric actually closing up 65 cents on the day -- a lot of folks waiting for Jeff Immelt to come out with his outlook of 2002 and 2003. And he even surpassed Wall Street bulls expectations. He says he expects double-digit earnings growth for GE in 2002 and 2003. And he confirmed Wall Street expectations for 11 percent profit growth this year in 2001.
Also, he says GE Power Systems is acquiring two business from Honeywell. They are disclosing the financial terms of that deal. But General Electric shares, Lou, are up another 35 cents in after-hours trade. Watch that one tomorrow.
DOBBS: Well, the Nasdaq surging almost 2 percent, as I said -- looked at my biotech shares -- Greg Clarkin.
GREG CLARKIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Lou, I will tell you, those mergers really kind of set the stage for a nice rally today. We have the Vivendi/USA deal -- also the big biotechnology buyout. We had Amgen buying shares of Immunex. Take a look at how those stocks performed on the day: Amgen up nicely, Immunex up better than 13 percent. There is USA Networks. It gained $1.20 to close over $25 a share. And Microsoft also one of the big-name technology winners today.
So while we saw every major sector higher today, some of sectors that really were hammered last week, including the networking stocks, semiconductor stocks, they came back nicely today. The Nasdaq made a run for 2000 late in the session, came up a little bit short. But, still, most traders say this was a pretty positive development -- Lou.
DOBBS: Absolutely. Thanks.
CLARKIN: Sure.
DOBBS: Well, as stocks went up, bonds went down. When that happens, we bring in Kathleen Hays -- Kathleen. KATHLEEN HAYS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, and, of course, one of problems with the bond markets is, money is leading bonds for stock. The sell off has been dramatic the past two months. It has really accelerated the past two weeks since December 4: the 10-year note going from something like $4.60 up to $5.40 today -- again, betting on recovery, watching the people shift their allocations.
We got some economic news today that sets us up for tomorrow. The National Association of Home Builders has a housing index. It jumped some 16 percent to 57. What does that mean? Well, it means the home builders expect better sales. And they see some good buyer traffic on their home building sites. Tomorrow, we get housing starts. Expected to decline a little bit, staying near a healthy level.
One of the most important reports of the week on Thursday: new claims for unemployment benefits. Why? Because it fell sharply on Thursday. Somewhat of a rebound expected. If it continues this downtrend, Lou, it will be another sign we are nearing recovery. Friday, the other big number: consumer sentiment from the University of Michigan. It's not back to the post-September 11 levels yet -- or pre-September 11, I should say -- but it has stabilized. It is starting other move higher a little bit. So that one will be closely watched as well.
DOBBS: When we get there, we will all be saying, well, it's just one weekly number. But we will find out.
HAYS: We will see.
DOBBS: All right, Kathleen, thanks.
My next guest sees reason for optimism, pointing to some bullish signals in this economy. And for that, we turn to economist and "MONEYLINE" regular Lakshman Achuthan.
Good to have you.
LAKSHMAN ACHUTHAN, ECONOMIC CYCLE RESEARCH INSTITUTE: Good to be here, Lou.
DOBBS: Let's get to the good news.
ACHUTHAN: Good news. Well, some other weekly numbers in the weekly leading index.
DOBBS: Well, if it's good news, then a trend they do make, right?
ACHUTHAN: Yes. We have got seven weeks moving up. Now, we haven't said that in a long time -- in the weekly leading index.
DOBBS: And tell everybody what these indicators are.
ACHUTHAN: Well, they are things -- some that Kathleen mentioned, the claims for unemployment insurance, commodity prices, quality spreads in the bond markets.
DOBBS: What is a quality spread in the bond market?
ACHUTHAN: Its' the difference between what the U.S. government pays and what a corporation pays. And, so, for the same duration, debt. So the U.S. government -- the spread between the two shows the risk that the market sees in the corporate debt. And if that spread is narrow, there is less risk, the corporations are likely to be doing better in the future.
We put all these indicators together because all of them can all give us false signals. And together they are showing up that there is some signs for optimism. If it continues, if we get about 10 weeks straight up, then we are going to be looking for recovery in the first half of 2002.
DOBBS: If seven weeks is enough for you to bring it to our attention, 10 weeks to say you feel pretty comfortable with the direction.
ACHUTHAN: Three P's: How pronounced, how persistent and how pervasive is the rise?
DOBBS: How perfect?
(LAUGHTER)
ACHUTHAN: Four P's, there you go.
So, you have got pronounced. You have got pervasive. We're looking for persistence. And we are getting there. If it keeps going, then we are going to be talking about an upturn. Then we have to start talking about what kind of an upturn. And that will be certainly on everybody's mind going forward.
DOBBS: Then once again we can start talking about profit.
ACHUTHAN: Well, hopefully. That will be part of it.
DOBBS: Lakshman, thank you very much. We will be watching very carefully over these next three weeks. We'll be keeping our fingers crossed for your weekly indicators.
ACHUTHAN: Got it.
DOBBS: Thanks.
"WOLF BLITZER REPORTS" begins in just a few minutes here on CNN. Let's go now to Wolf in Washington to find out what is ahead -- Wolf.
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Thank you, Lou.
Has Osama bin Laden slipped out of Afghanistan? Where could he be? We'll have the latest in the search. We'll go live to our correspondents in Tora Bora and Eastern Afghanistan and to the White House. And what is next in the war against terrorism? I will ask former CIA Director James Woolsey, investigative journalist Seymour Hersh and terrorist expert Paul Bremer -- all next here in the CNN "War Room" -- Lou.
DOBBS: Looking forward it to, Wolf. Thank you.
Coming up next here, we'll take a look at your thoughts and some of what to expect tomorrow. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Tomorrow, we'll have a read on the housing market. November housing starts will be reported -- quarterly results are from 3Com, Micron Technology, Best Buy, Circuit City and Scholastic, the publisher of the "Harry Potter" books -- and the Senate International Operations Subcommittee holding a hearing on the global reach of the al Qaeda network.
A disputed call in the final minute of play helped the Jacksonville Jaguars defeat the Cleveland Browns yesterday. But the Browns fans had the last word. Fans in the Dawg Pound section of the stadium started hurling plastic bottles, some filled with beer, onto the field. It caused a 30-minute delay in play. The officials tried to stop the game. Paul Tagliabue says no, finish it. They did, 48 seconds worth. The NFL says it will not take action against the Browns coach nor the owner for the fan's action, citing freedom of speech.
Now, about that call, taking a look at your thoughts: Jamil says he received the following e-mail from a friend. He passed it on. Here's an excerpt: "No more free e-mail. We knew this was coming. Bill 602P will permit the federal government to charge a 5 cent charge on every e-mail sent." Jamil writes in, wondering, asking if this is true.
No, Jamil, it's not true. This is one of the old Internet hoaxes that we thought had gone away.. Bill 602P does not exist. Congress is not considering a 5 cent e-mail tax. The U.S. Postal Service has long said it would not support such legislation, by the way. And if you receive an e-mail regarding federal bill 602P, it's a hoax. And please don't bring this up again, just in case someone down in Washington begins to thinks it is a good idea.
Send us your thoughts anytime: MONEYLINE.CNN.com. We always appreciate hearing from you. Include your name and address. For tonight, that is MONEYLINE. Thanks for being with us.
I'm Lou Dobbs. Good night from New York. "WOLF BLITZER REPORTS" begins right now.
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