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American Morning
Henry Kissinger Discusses John Walker; Bomb-Sniffing Dogs May Do a Lot of Work to Improve Airport Security
Aired December 20, 2001 - 08:20 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: Walker is one of two men who might be considered among America's most hated. The other, Osama bin Laden, has a $25-million price on his head. Now Walker could face the death penalty if he's charged and convicted and there has been a lot of discussion about what to do with bin Laden if he's caught. For his perspective on all of this, we are joined by former Secretary of State Dr. Henry Kissinger. As always, good to see you.
DR. HENRY KISSINGER, FORMER SECRETARY OF STATE: Good to be here.
ZAHN: What do you think should happen to John Walker?
KISSINGER: I - if he fought against Americans, then I think the treason charge as indicated. If he went over there before this started, I think he should be dealt with severely, but it should not look as if one is pending the punishment because of our present outrage and even though I find him a revolting (INAUDIBLE).
ZAHN: Well we begin to see the faint lines of defense, I think being thrown out there, one of the defense attorneys spoke to "The New York Times" yesterday suggesting that Americans don't know all about this man, that they need to - don't know. In the interview he told our CNN reporter that it wasn't his intention to fight America. He was fighting the opposition he said in Afghanistan. So ...
KISSINGER: But he fought a murderous group that was misleading (ph) women that was defeating (ph) the heritage of cultures of thousands of years, and that governed in the most oppressive way and then he wound up fighting Americans, so he doesn't deserve any sympathy.
ZAHN: I think all of America would agree with that assessment. Let's move on to the issue of political assassinations. We've talked a fair amount here on the show about the president lifting a ban that prohibited political assassinations. Would you like to see Osama bin Laden killed if we find him?
KISSINGER: Yes I'd like to see him killed if they find him, because I think if he's in an American prison, we will have years of hijackings, dozens of demonstrations, and we would lose American and other lives in order to keep him in prison. So I think it is not desirable to have him in prison.
ZAHN: So ...
(CROSSTALK)
KISSINGER: I don't like assassination publicly (INAUDIBLE) and in fact I was in office when it was prohibited. And I agreed with it strongly to prohibit assassinations. But (INAUDIBLE) in which the president could lift that restriction and this is one of them.
ZAHN: So you're not in support of lifting this for ...
KISSINGER: I don't think it's a blanket rule we should have assassination as a regular tool. It is something that we should do in cases like this or in cases if you know there's a murderous (ph) band of people that have been killing Americans, then I can understand that we track them around the world and eliminate them, and I really would like to see it from case to case. I would not delegate (INAUDIBLE) authority to assassinations to the CIA or any other group.
ZAHN: I wanted to move on to a different policy and that's the issue of shuttle diplomacy, a phrase that you credited with creating. How is the administration doing as it wages the war on terrorism; it fights in Afghanistan; it tries to have some sort of impact on the peace process in the Middle East.
KISSINGER: I think the administration is doing extremely well. It is achieving its fundamental objectives in Afghanistan, in the sense that it's destroying the Taliban and destroying the al Qaeda network and even though some of the top people of al Qaeda have gotten away, they have to hide. They can not surface operationally and no country can admit having them. So sooner or later, unless they hide in some village and never emerge again, which (INAUDIBLE) bad for them, they will be destroyed.
On the Middle East, one has to remember, the administration came in after a year of peacemaking efforts that make the situation progressively worse because it tried to shoehorn (ph) a solution into a complete overall settlement that exacerbated tensions. I think they're now reaching the point where both sides are beginning to realize the limits of what can be achieved by the present procedures, and I think especially the Palestinians have learned and should have learned in the last few weeks that this idea that the (INAUDIBLE) will gradually break Israel's back and get us to impose their solution on Israel isn't going to work.
Once that realization exists, then I think something along the lines of the Mitchell Report can emerge and I would expect the resumption of American diplomatic initiatives in the new year just as soon as the - as Arafat has carried out his promise to put the terror groups out of business.
ZAHN: Before we let you go, have you given up on Arafat?
KISSINGER: I think it isn't up to us to choose the Palestinian leader. He has (INAUDIBLE) component. On the other hand, he has the following, and if he would to take the steps that are needed, however reluctantly (INAUDIBLE) he could probably do it. But I don't think we or Israel should designate who the Palestinian leader should be.
ZAHN: We're going to close this interview on a more joyous note. We're going to show a picture of you sliding into homebase at Yankee Stadium.
(CROSSTALK)
ZAHN: I understand it was a lifelong dream of yours. Here you go. You appeared in this ad to promote tourism in New York City. Now did you have any idea electronically what they were going to do to you there doctor?
KISSINGER: No, I knew exactly what they were going to do. I knew that.
ZAHN: Yes.
KISSINGER: I did not know the - I didn't know the impact it would have. I was - I landed in Japan (INAUDIBLE) airport and a Japanese came up to me and went like this. I hadn't seen the commercial at that point. I didn't know what he was doing.
ZAHN: He was saluting you. You made a homerun at Yankee Stadium.
(CROSSTALK)
KISSINGER: I guess so. That's it.
ZAHN: Good job on the field there.
KISSINGER: Paula, good to see you.
ZAHN: Dr. Kissinger, always good to see you. Thank you for your time this morning.
KISSINGER: Thank you.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ZAHN: The government only yesterday turned down a plea by the U.S. airline industry for more time to improve baggage security screening. The carriers had been lobbying to extend the January 18th deadline enacted by Congress in November. Well the law requires every piece of luggage to be checked and matched with a passenger. Some of that work may be done by bomb-sniffing dogs and it's going to take a lot of dogs to do that. CNN's Ann Kellan joins us now from Lackland Air Force Base in Texas with a tale of those four-legged bomb- sniffers. Good morning Ann.
ANN KELLAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning Paula. This is the only place in the U.S. that is allowed to train FAA bomb-sniffing dogs and a new group has just graduated. I want to introduce you to one of the handlers. Policemen come from across the country to learn this. This is Brian Porter and Bona (ph), who is your new dog after 11 weeks. Hi Brian. BRIAN PORTER: Hi. How are you?
KELLAN: You're with the port authority of New York, New Jersey.
PORTER: Yes.
KELLAN: And I know and I'm sorry to say that you lost a few colleagues on September 11th and it sort of changed your life.
PORTER: Yes. Sure.
(CROSSTALK)
KELLAN: You became a dog handler because of this.
PORTER: Yes. I thought it was a good way to go. So you know we're here and see how we make out.
KELLAN: Yes, well I'll wish you luck because we're going to put you to the test now.
PORTER: All right.
KELLAN: We have those explosives and some luggage back here and you've been through the course now.
PORTER: Right.
KELLAN: So you know how to do this and Bona actually helped train you - right? She's ...
(CROSSTALK)
KELLAN: ... the experienced one - right?
PORTER: Oh yes. She - you know you just basically learn how to watch her behavior and see how she changes and it's - she's just really that good. I mean I've been fortunate.
KELLAN: OK. Go for it.
PORTER: OK.
KELLAN: Find the explosives, and while they do that, I would like to talk to Master Sergeant John Pierce (ph) who is heading up the FAA training program. The handler basically has to do what - keep the dog going or what - what do they do?
MASTER SERGEANT JOHN PIERCE, FAA TRAINING PROGRAM: The handler's job in this case is to present productive areas to the dog where the dog can encounter explosive ...
KELLAN: Oh she found it. Way to go. OK, now I think there's more explosives.
PIERCE: Yes ma'am. KELLAN: And they will sit when they find it - right?
PIERCE: Right. That's the dog's final response. The key to this is the handler puts a dog in areas that the dog can actually encounter explosive odor and then upon the dog reaching or encountering explosive odor, it has a change of behavior - indicates to the handler that it's picked up explosive odor. The handler has to then allow the dog to work and come to source and give a final response.
KELLAN: Oh. Oh. What's he doing there? So it's kind of tricky because they have to sort of stay clear of the dog. They don't want to interfere with the dog doing its work, but they want to make sure it sticks to task - right?
PIERCE: Yes ma'am.
KELLAN: Now Bona has worked airports before.
PIERCE: No Bona hasn't been in an actual airport. We've had - we've had Bona here in training. She's received about four weeks of training prior to Officer Porter arriving here for class and then we matched the team together based on their personalities and work ethic and we have a good team here.
KELLAN: She found another one and she's right. Also fuelsalage of a plane, they also go get training there. What you're seeing behind us and behind Brian is the fuelsalage, but we also had Brian go through a plane. I don't know if we have video of that, but you can see they are trained to go high and low. There's a systematic search that they go through, again, to find explosives. There are how many teams that will be graduating, John?
PIERCE: There'll be 13 teams that graduate tomorrow (INAUDIBLE).
KELLAN: Congratulations to all of them. Twenty-five more airports around the country will be getting these dogs and there will be courses going on throughout the year. Back to you Paula.
ZAHN: Boy I can't imagine how much labor that involves, training those dogs. This once again is the only place in the country where this kind of training is done?
KELLAN: Well there are other areas that train dogs, but for FAA this is the only place in the United States that trains FAA certified explosive-sniffing dogs.
ZAHN: Well give that dog a biscuit from us. We thought he did one fine job. Thank you so much Ann.
(CROSSTALK)
KELLAN: A big round of applause and by the way ...
ZAHN: Yey.
(CROSSTALK)
KELLAN: ... great little treats - they get great treats. They don't get food treats. They get little plastic toys and praises.
ZAHN: They deserve them. Thanks Ann.
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