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Lou Dobbs Moneyline
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Aired December 27, 2001 - 18:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ANNOUNCER: This is LOU DOBBS MONEYLINE for Thursday, December 27. Sitting in for Lou Dobbs, Jan Hopkins.
JAN HOPKINS, CNN ANCHOR: Good evening everyone.
By now, most Americans have heard the world's most notorious terrorist bragging about the attacks on the World Trade Center. In his latest taped appearance, Osama bin Laden talks about how easy it was to land a crushing blow to the world's largest economy.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
OSAMA BIN LADEN, AL QAEDA LEADER: They've shaken the throne of America and hit hard the American economy its heart and its core. We hit the most powerful military power on earth in its core.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HOPKINS: The latest bin Laden videotape was shown in its entirety on the Arabic Al-Jazeera TV news channel. In one excerpt, bin Laden says the hijackers used, quote, "the enemies schools and used the enemies planes to carry out their mission."
Al Qaeda and Taliban prisoners could be sent to the U.S. naval base at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba. Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld says those facilities would not be ready for a number of weeks, and he does not expect Cuba will have any objections. The U.S. military is currently holding 45 Afghan and al Qaeda prisoners. Many of them are being detained at the airport in Kandahar. Another 20 prisoners, mostly Yemenis, arriving at the airport -- they arrived last night.
Tensions between India and Pakistan continue to escalate. The standoff could create problems for the U.S. war against terrorism. India and Pakistan today banned each other's airlines from flying over their countries. U.S. Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld says flight restrictions could lead to problems for U.S. military planes using Pakistani airspace. Pakistan mobilized its entire army yesterday, but Rumsfeld says Pakistan has not yet moved any of its forces from along the Afghan border. Pakistan has been helping to capture fleeing al Qaeda and Taliban fighters.
For more on the Osama bin Laden videotape and the problems raised by the tensions between India and Pakistan, we're joined now by Nic Robertson. He is in Tora Bora tonight -- Nic.
NIC ROBERTSON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, the latest, Jan, from Afghanistan is from the defense ministry here. They say that Osama bin Laden is now in Pakistan, they believe. We've also heard that from local commanders here in Tora Bora who have been helping the dozens and dozens, perhaps even hundreds, of U.S. special forces who are in these mountains trying to search for clues from where the al Qaeda forces and Osama bin Laden were ousted in the last few weeks. Local commanders here say they have evidence to suggest that Osama bin Laden is, in fact, just across the border inside Pakistan in the northwest frontier province, perhaps around the border town of Peshawar.
The defense ministry inside Kabul suggests that he may be with a hard-line Islamic religious group inside Pakistan. That group, however, denies the charge. And it has to be noted that the local commanders here are also loyal to the defense ministry in Kabul because the head of Afghanistan's interim government, Hamid Karzai, says he has no solid information suggesting that Osama bin Laden is in fact inside Pakistan. So, some confusion there, and as we've seen in recent days, differences already within the new government inside Afghanistan.
Also, the head of Afghanistan's government coming under pressure from local tribal leaders here in eastern province areas. Those provinces have been hit by U.S. warplanes, one in a controversial convoy attack last week when the Pentagon said it attacked a convoy with al Qaeda leaders. Local tribal officials said that it was just tribal leaders going to Kabul for the inauguration of the new government. Hamid Karzai, the head of the government, met with those tribal leaders. They have asked him to ask the United States to stop its bombing runs here against al Qaeda. He has said will look into it and do what he can -- Jan.
HOPKINS: But they are still searching caves for Osama bin Laden, right?
ROBERTSON: Absolutely. The search is going on. This is a huge, huge area. The mountains behind me in the dark, they stretch for many miles, both east and west. And then, of course, about another 15 miles south of here to the Pakistan border. We've been in them. There are many, many cave complexes, many villages hit. We were here when the bombing was going on. There were multiple bomb bursts during any -- during any of the bombing runs. So there are many, many sites that have been hit in the mountains.
Local commanders here tell us U.S. special forces have told them not to bury al Qaeda dead that they find in the mountains because the U.S. special forces want to go through all the bodies, all the evidence on the mountains and try and figure out just what clues they can as to the whereabouts of Osama bin Laden, whether or not he's on the mountain or there's some information in some cave as to his whereabouts. So the search is still going on.
Last night, we were hearing helicopters flying in here. And, certainly, the only people capable of doing night flights, it appears, in this area without lights, and there certainly were no lights on these helicopters, would appear to be U.S. forces. So, again, they're very, very active in the area at this time -- Jan.
HOPKINS: Thanks very much. Nic Robertson live from Tora Bora.
And as we reported, some of the terrorists being detained in Afghanistan could soon be on their way to Guantanamo Bay in Cuba. Jonathan Aiken is at the Pentagon. Jonathan, are the prisoners definitely going to Cuba?
JONATHAN AIKEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, it's pretty much a question of when, not if. The officers at Guantanamo naval station, Jan, received a heads-up from the Pentagon to start considering, start drawing up plans to build a high security detention center for detainees. And the heads-up came in the form of what's called a warning order, which essentially tells the officials at the base to get the plans ready, have them approved by the Pentagon and hold them until ordered to enact them. So it definitely is coming.
Guantanamo is located on the southeast tip of Cuba, just about 45 square miles of territory that's been held by the United States for nearly a century now. And it was chosen in part because it is a secure location. It's a good place to hold Taliban and al Qaeda leaders close to but not in the United States. It also gives the U.S. an opportunity to quickly get interrogators down to question these people and also makes any possible tribunals that may be held there relatively easy to conduct, though the Pentagon tells us no firm decisions have made about this.
It is not a perfect choice, however. There are some drawbacks to it. Guantanamo, in the 45 square miles that the U.S. owns, is basically an isolated spot on an island run by a government unfriendly to the United States. But in the eyes of Pentagon officials, it is not Afghanistan. And also, it's a lot closer than another alternative that was considered: Guam. But that was rejected because of public opposition and the logistical nightmare of moving detainees back and forth across the Pacific.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD RUMSFELD, SECRETARY OF DEFENSE: I would characterize Guantanamo Bay, Cuba as the least worst place we could have selected. It has disadvantages, as you suggest. Its disadvantages, however, seem to be modest relative to the alternatives.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
AIKEN: So, Jan, we're getting a little more information today on Wednesday's strike by B-52's and AC-130 gunships. And what the Pentagon says was a compound of the Taliban intelligence minister near the town of Ghazni, a southwest of Kabul. The Pentagon released some before and after pictures today, some before pictures showing the compound prior to this B-52 attack and then afterwards. You see the before shot there. It's located in the center of the screen. Afterwards, you'll see the arrows popping up on the screen to indicate where the buildings used to be. The bombing has been light over the past couple of days. But the targets that are being hit are targets of opportunity. And we're told that this was a time-sensitive target, that U.S. had information that, if not the Taliban intelligence minister himself, then perhaps other members of the Taliban leadership were actually in the location at the time that the attack was ordered, though exactly who died and how many, the Pentagon isn't going to know that for several days yet.
The other big concern being expressed here today, Jan, involves the ongoing tensions that are growing between India and Pakistan over Kashmir. There have been reports, partly confirmed by U.S. intelligence officials, that Pakistan has moved small numbers of troops from their positions along the Afghan border, making that border even more porous than it was prior. And there is also a concern that the United States may lose flyover rights in both countries, as both Islamabad and New Delhi pay more attention -- pay less attention to the war on terrorism and perhaps start spending more attention on making war with each other -- Jan
HOPKINS: Thanks very much. Jonathan Aiken at the Pentagon.
And on the latest videotape, Osama bin Laden calls for attacks against the U.S. economy. Bin Laden says that way, America will be too busy to bother with Islamic fighters.
Joining us for his perspective is Peter Bergen, CNN terrorism expert and author of the book "Holy War Incorporated" So, Peter, this strategy to really attack the U.S. economy, is this the first that we've heard of that?
PETER BERGEN, CNN TERRORISM ANALYST: I think it's the first time bin Laden has really articulated that -- I mean, he takes great joy in the immense damage done to the American economy. As you know, I think the estimates are somewhat between $100 billion and $300 billion in terms of lost goods and damage to buildings, et cetera. And bin Laden, you know, revels in this and calls for other attacks on American economic targets.
HOPKINS: What would you think might be an economic target? I mean, you've studied bin Laden, you've interviewed him.
BERGEN: It's a good question. I mean, previously, you know, Jan, they'd really confined themselves to strictly military targets in a sense U.S. embassies, U.S. warships, U.S. bases in Saudi Arabia. So the Trade Center was sort of a departure.
You know, honestly, I don't know what the answer is to that question. But, I think it is interesting on this video that bin Laden is calling for those sorts of attacks.
HOPKINS: He also says that whether he's dead or alive, the attacks would continue. Do you believe that?
BERGEN: Well, I do in the following sense. I mean, in the longer term, bin Laden's, you know, and the top leadership are obviously gone, I think, and also the terror training camps are gone. And that will impact the organization for the long term.
But in the short term, as we have seen with this gentleman, Richard Reid (ph) , who apparently may have gone to Afghanistan for training, in the short term there are a lot of people who cycle through the camps and learn certain skills and they may come and continue to do damage.
One of the hallmarks of the group is spending a lot of time planning attacks may be planning their attacks and there may be an attack in the pipeline that has been in there for sometime, even before September 11.
HOPKINS: You're saying that you think that the top leaders and Osama bin Laden are gone? You don't think they're alive anymore, or they're gone from Afghanistan?
BERGEN: When I say gone, I mean they are going to be gone very -- very soon. Mohammed Atta, the military commander is apparently dead. Bin Laden I don't it is going to be much longer, we don't know if he's dead or alive. But if he is alive it won't be much longer before he's captured or killed. And I think that will have obviously a huge impact on their organization because these are the people who have had the organizational skills.
A lot of these people have been involved in sort of para-military activities for decades. And they are the people who have put together the trans-national coalition in Afghanistan to attack the United States and it was very unusual situation which I don't see being repeated in the near future.
HOPKINS: One of the things that's been talked about is that Osama bin Laden died of natural causes. We see on the tape that he didn't look to be in particularly good health. Also there's conversation today, as we heard from Nic Robertson, that he may be someplace in Pakistan. What do you think?
BERGEN: Well, there have been those conflicting reports of him being in Pakistan. My opinion, and that is simply my opinion, I think that Afghanistan is so much better place to hide than Pakistan. Topographically it is so much more mountainous, it is a large country. The Pakistani military is an extremely large force and the Pakistani government has made it abundantly clear that they're going after bin Laden.
So, I think that if I was bin Laden, which obviously I am not, and I was still alive, I would continue in a country which I know very well. Bin Laden has traveled in Afghanistan on and off since 1982, he knows the place very well. And I think it's logical that he would continue to be there.
But of course, I don't know where he is. We don't know if he's alive. The reports, as you mentioned, there was a report in a Pakistani newspaper that he died of lung disease this week, apparently. I think that's unlikely.
HOPKINS: Thanks very much. Peter Bergen, terrorism expert. Thanks,
Coming up next, mother nature dumps more snow on Buffalo. We'll tell you how the city is coping and what else could be in store. Then, "TIME" magazine's man of the year says farewell to New York City.
And U.S. Marines will not be taking part in the cave search for Osama bin Laden. We'll discuss the reasons behind that strategy when we come back.
ANNOUNCER: Next Jan talks with retired U.S. Army General David Grange.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HOPKINS: The White House calls the Osama bin Laden videotape more terrorist propaganda. The president is vacationing in Crawford, Texas. Major Garrett is there with him, and joins us now -- Major.
MAJOR GARRETT, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Jan, the best way to describe the White House reaction is short, blunt and dismissive. You summarized it very well, the White House only official comment on the bin Laden tape is that it is just more of the same terrorist propaganda the White House has seen before.
That stands in stark contrast the way the White House engineered a formal response back November 3, when the last bin Laden tape came out. At that time the White House dispatched a former U.S. ambassador to Syria, Chris Ross to appear on Al Jazeera, that's the Arab-speaking 24 hour news network to respond in Arabic to the bin Laden tape.
The White House debated that strategy this time and decided bin Laden wasn't worth it this time around. They see him as a much less menacing and much less persuasive figure on the world stage than they did even a month ago in large part because the Taliban regime in Afghanistan, which used to provide safe haven, has now been eliminated and the al Qaeda terrorist network, which used to operate training camps in Afghanistan greatly disrupted.
And for those reasons the White House decided bin Laden didn't merit a more formal and lengthy response -- Jan.
HOPKINS: Anything else going on there today at the western White House?
GARRETT: Well, the president is relaxing, as you said, trying to get a little rest and relaxation before returning to Washington early in January to prepare for, what promises to be a very tough legislative session, an election year legislative session.
He is also beginning work on the state of the union address. One more point I would like to make about the bin Laden tape, Jan, one thing and Peter Bergen and you just referred to that, there are serious questions among top Bush advisers as to whether or not bin Laden is still alive. One of the considerations being debated here is should the White House respond in real time to tape that is obviously several weeks old, and in fact be responding to someone who could already be dead.
The White House decided that was a risk they did not want to take, keeping their comments very brief indeed -- Jan.
HOPKINS: Interesting point. Major Garrett, thanks.'
As we reported earlier, U.S. Marines will not be joining the cave-to-cave search in Tora Bora for Osama bin Laden. Here with his perspective on that decision is CNN military analyst General David Grange.
So, General, is it just too dangerous or what?
BRIGADIER GEN. DAVID GRANGE (RET.), CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Oh, I don't think it's a mission that would be too dangerous for Marine Corp. I believe there's other tasks at hand. You know our air power hit a target, I believe it was southeast of Kandahar, the other day.
There's still a lot of hostile area in Afghanistan. And I believe that the Marines are quite busy out of their base camp interdicting and performing other tasks or on stand-by to perform certain tasks.
When you're in the military there is an expression known as "hurry up and wait." You get a mission, you get all spun up for it, you are ready to go, and -- well, we are not going to do that mission, get ready for another one. And it's because intelligence information changes, the intelligence you receive. The environment changes, situations changes, and so the units have to adapt to what happens that's unexpected. I don't think it's anything to do with whether they are not prepared for it.
HOPKINS: Also, Nic Robertson was just telling us that he heard aircraft and that had to be U.S. special forces. So the U.S. troops are standing by, right? And involved in some way, just not the Marines?
GRANGE: You can be assured not only the United States of America but some of our allies like Great Britain has raiding forces standing by to go in of any information they receive to do a strike. Whether to capture or kill any of our enemies that have been identified. So, yes, everybody, I'm sure, is on stand-by. But again, it's getting into very tough winter conditions.
Maybe the presence of a large allied force around Tora Bora is not necessary right now, and they want to rely on indigenous forces, but also showing some commitment with U.S. forces with these indigenous forces to show our resolve to go into dangerous areas and to hunt down these enemies of al Qaeda.
HOPKINS: We have been hearing today about India and Pakistan and the possibility that the gathering of troops and the hostilities that seem to be heightened there could have an effect on what is going on in Afghanistan. What do you think about this?
GRANGE: I'm sure it will have some type of effect. What we don't want is obviously hostilities to develop between Pakistan and India. It's probably in a world, one of the most dangerous situations due to the nuclear power capabilities that both countries possess.
And the situation you have right now is that you have anything from a terrorist attack, kidnapping, a raid on a parliament building, whatever the case may be, a car bombing, up through unconventional warfare, guerrilla warfare, to conventional fighting between combat aircraft and tanks, and infantry and artillery on the ground, to a nuclear exchange.
I don't believe that there would be a nuclear exchange as a result of immediate hostilities. I think that would happen only out of desperation if one side was losing drastically. However, it's something I'm sure our government is cognizant of as well as our allies and dealing and talking diplomacy with both of these countries in light of the Afghanistan issues that are going on, it's a delicate situation that's being worked very hard.
HOPKINS: Thanks very much, General David Grange. Thanks for joining us.
GRANGE: Thank you.
HOPKINS: When you think of Huntsville, Alabama, maybe the last thing you think of is rockets. But this city of 160,000 people is the heart of the U.S. defense industry, the place where most of this country's smart bombs are manufactured. Fred Katayama has more on Rocket City.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
FRED KATAYAMA, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Simulation software used to plan the war on Afghanistan.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... allows analysis of attack operations against critical mobile targets.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KATAYAMA: Just one of the technologies born in one of the poorest states -- Alabama -- in high-tech oasis called Huntsville, population: 158,000.
AL SULLIVAN, COLSA: From the ballistic missile defense that we are trying to build, or umbrella that we are trying to build for the nation to ensure that we are not at risk from that particular threat, down to the tactical missiles that are being used today in Afghanistan, that technology was developed here, nurtured here and fielded from here.
KATAYAMA: Once known more for fields of cotton, Huntsville today is to missiles what Detroit is to cars. It is home to the Redstone Arsenal, developer of U.S.'s first heavy ballistic missile, and NASA's Marshal Space Flight Center. Every U.S. rocket that has blasted astronauts into space was developed here, as was the Hubble Telescope.
(on camera): What transformed Huntsville into a high-tech mecca was a Hitler connection. The United States wanted to jump start its rocket program, so it lured Germany's top missile designer, Werner Von Brown, and his team of scientists.
Then eventually settled in Huntsville in 1950. The team went on to develop rocket engines that blasted man into orbit and onto the moon.
(voice-over): Von Brown's presence lured many entrepreneurs like Mark Smith, the founder of the telecom equipment maker Agran.
MARK SMITH, CHAIRMAN & CEO, AGRAN: There was the technology and NASA was the attraction, the reason that NASA and technology was here if you go one step further, was due to Werner Von Brown.
KATAYAMA: The city's biggest asset -- brain power. One of every 13 people is an engineer and it is home to 35 retired generals, such as Jim Link at Teledyne, and Al Sullivan at Camber. More than 60 percent of the companies here were spun off by former employees of the arsenal and NASA.
This talent pool has also lured big guns like Boeing, Lockheed Martin, and Raytheon, and Northrop Grumman. About the only down side companies groan about, Huntsville's last name.
NANCY ARCHULETA, CEO, MAVATEC: One of the biggest drawbacks is that most people, when at the think of Alabama, think of some backward state.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
KATAYAMA: That aside, the city is strong financially, boasting a double A bond rating from Standard and Poors. Unemployment is a puny 3.1 percent, nearly half the national rate. Sales tax receipts are expected to grow 5 percent this year. And since the city isn't dependent on tourism and engineer pay is high, the economy is proving resilient. With defense spending expected to rise, economists say Huntsville should grow next year as well -- Jan.
HOPKINS: Thank you very much. Fred Katayama.
Still to come, the latest developments in the war against terrorism. We'll also tell you why a new Web site has some of the country's farmers really upset. Then, more snow for Buffalo -- three feet so far, and it's not over yet.
And, whether you're afraid to open your mail, or just too busy, there's a company that will do it for you. That story and more, when we come back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) HOPKINS: Tonight in the war against terrorism, Osama bin Laden says the attacks against the U.S. were easy to carry out and that they crippled the world's largest economy. Bin Laden made those comments on a videotape which aired in its entirety on the Arabic news channel Al Jazeera.
The Pentagon says it has no idea where bin Laden is hiding, or whether he's still alive. The Pentagon did confirm that U.S. warplanes carried out a bombing raid against a compound near Ghazni (ph) , where Taliban leaders were believed to be hiding.
A secret service agent of Arab descent was asked to get off an American Airlines flight at Baltimore-Washington international airport. The agent was on his way to join the president's security detail in Crawford, Texas. American Airlines says the pilot was troubled by what he considered to be inconsistencies in the paper work required to carry a weapon on the aircraft.
The man who will likely be best remembered for his leadership following the World Trading Center attacks said farewell today. Mayor Rudy Giuliani leaves office in four days. Today he praised the city and the nation for coming together after the worst attack on American soil.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RUDOLPH GIULIANAI, MAYOR, NEW YORK: This war will go on for some time to find the terrorists, to eliminate terrorism, to eliminate terrorists. I don't know how long it will go on. It will go on probably for longer time that we would like. I hope you realize that we have already won it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HOPKINS: Giuliani served two consecutive terms as mayor after beating out incumbent mayor, David Dinkins in 1993.
The city of Buffalo, New York is shut down tonight, buried under more than three feet of snow. Offices, businesses and the airport are closed. Motorists are being urged to stay away from the city, where streets are clogged with packed snow. This storm is being fed by moisture from Lake Erie. And by the time it ends tomorrow, some parts of Buffalo could be looking at four feet of snow, or more. All of it coming just since Christmas eve.
In Australia, wildfires are still raging out of control, threatening one of the largest cities in the world. A thick haze hangs over Sydney. More than 100 fires are burning around the city. More than half of them, police say, started by arsonists. The fires have destroyed homes and wildlife. They've caused more than $10 million in damages. Investigators say there is no sign the fires will end anytime soon. So far, no deaths or serious injuries have been reported.
In Morocco, heavy floods turned deadly. At least 15 people were killed, and hundreds of families left homeless, as floods swept through parts of central Morocco. Among those who died were six passengers in a taxi which was swept off the road by the rushing waters. The floods, which were caused by heavy rains, have caused close to $2 million in damages.
Back in this country, a Web site that has posted the amount of subsidies received by farmers across the country has started quite a rift. As Steve Young reports, some of the big recipients on that list are very well known.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
STEVE YOUNG, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): From Illinois to New York, to Maryland, many farmers would like to plow under a Web site run by A Washington, D.C. Conservation group. Neal Farms, in Federalsburg, Maryland usually raises corn, wheat, and soybeans. But right now, farmer Wheatly Neal is raising cane.
That's because the Web site shows he received $642,393 dollars from the government between 1996 and 2000. That's more than any of the other 632 farmers receiving subsidies in Caroline County.
WHEATLY NEAL, FARMER: I feel it's confidential information. If you're going to show these numbers you just as well show them your whole income tax return. Because a lot of times, what money we get from the government is the only chance for profit that we got.
YOUNG: Since going live last month, the environmental working group web site has received more than 11 million hits, and sparked a debate about the farm subsidy program as Congress struggles with the $170 billion farm bill.
The non-profit group says it's not against subsidies but it doesn't think it is fair that 250 recipients out of a couple of million are getting 70 percent of all the money.
ANN KEYS, ENVIRONMENTAL WORKING GROUP: We are getting e-mails in support. A lot of farmers are saying this is great. I've always wanted to know what Joe Farmer was getting down the lane from me. And There are some farmers, I think the big fat cat farmers, who are saying, take that information down, it is causing me problems.
YOUNG: Recipients in the database include media mogul Ted Turner, former Chase Manhattan Bank chairman David Rockefeller, and stock broker Charles Schwab.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
Farm subsidies now total about $20 billion a year. A lot of working farmer say they are helping many gentlemen farmers, but not the family farmer, whom the subsidy program was supposed to save -- Jan.
HOPKINS: Thanks, Steve.
The anthrax scare has subsided for now. And the ongoing investigation appears to have yielded few answers. But the threat of anthrax has caused big changes in the way mail is handled in this country. For some companies, it has also created an unexpected business opportunity.
Bruce Francis has that story.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BRUCE FRANCIS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): When you play guitar for Willie Nelson, you're on the road again and again. Jackie King was home just seven weeks last year.
JACKIE KING, MUSICIAN: I have missed important pieces of mail. For example, there was a renewal application, I believe, for California Arts Council that I missed because there was a deadline on it.
FRANCIS: That's why King has become one of the early users of Paperless P.O. Box, a service that opens, scans and forwards e-mail images of your mail.
Here's how it works. A consumer changes his mailing address to a regular post office box. Mail is collected from that box by paperlesspobox.com. High speed machines then open the mail, which gets scanned into computers. Then an image of the letter is sent via e-mail to the original recipient.
The original mail can be stored or discarded, depending on what the customer wants.
(on camera): Paperless P.O. Box originally intended to target frequent travelers like Jackie King. But then came the anthrax scare.
(voice-over): The deaths of two women raised the possibility of cross-contamination of mail. The company found that fear can be powerful marketing.
DAVID NALE, PAPERLESSPOBOX.COM: There's been a significant increase in business since the anthrax attacks. The corporate customers that we were talking to before, at first they were mostly interested in the service just for their traveling customers. But now, many of them are looking at this as a solution for their whole company.
FRANCIS: If the anthrax scare gave the start-up a boost, the firm certainly needed. Founder Nale was scheduled to give a major funding pitch on September 11, just a few hundred yards from ground zero. But the company is betting that most users will be like Jackie King, not too worried about anthrax. He just wants to make sure that his mail finds him on the road.
Bruce Francis, CNN Financial News, New York.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HOPKINS: Just ahead tonight, more on the new videotape of Osama bin Laden. The terrorist leader has an ominous warning about future attacks.
September's attacks decimated an already weak airline industry. We'll take a look at the current state of the business. And we'll also have a look at the markets and the latest changes in mortgage interest rates, and the most important investing lessons of the past year. All coming up.
ANNOUNCER: After the break, Jan talks with Mark Klee, technology analyst at American Fund Advisers.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HOPKINS: A 16-month-old baby girl who was allegedly abducted from a Chicago bus station on Christmas Eve was found this evening. The FBI says the child was found in Williamson, West Virginia. And a woman is in custody, charged with one count of federal kidnapping. The child's mother says she entrusted her daughter to a woman while she got in line to buy a ticket at a Chicago bus station on Monday -- I think it was actually to return the tickets. The mother says she looked back and saw the woman and her baby disappear into a crowd. Tonight, the toddler is safe and unharmed.
In the war against terrorism, Osama bin Laden brags that the attacks on the U.S. were easy to carry out and they'll continue even if he dies. Bin Laden made that comment on a videotaped which aired on Al-Jazeera TV.
Meanwhile, captured al Qaeda and Taliban members could be heading to the U.S. naval base at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba. The Pentagon says it's issued a warning order to military officials in Guantanamo to be prepared to receive as many as several hundred detainees.
Authorities say that suspected shoe bomber Richard Reid traveled to several European countries, including the Netherlands, Belgium and France in recent months. Israeli security services say that airport personnel were alarmed when Reid tried to pass through airline security in that country in July. During that check, Reid was asked to remove his shoes.
Passengers are steadily returning to the skies. And today is expected to be one of the busiest air travel days of the year. But 2001 will long be remembered as the worst in airline history, most importantly because of the loss of life from terrorism and aviation accidents.
The Air Transport Association says the U.S. airline industry will likely report losses of up to $10 billion this year with more than 80,000 jobs lost. Allan Chernoff has the story.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ALLAN CHERNOFF, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Airlines were already heading for a bad year. Then September 11 happened. For the bulk of three days, the nation's air traffic system was shut down.
GORDON BETHUNE, CEO, CONTINENTAL AIRLINES: The three-day shutdown, we estimate, caused a loss of more than a billion dollars. It's a staggering amount. That's $15 million an hour.
CHERNOFF: When airports reopened, much of the public was afraid to fly. Airlines responded by canceling one out of every five flights, laying off about 100,000 workers and delaying orders for new aircraft. Executives went to Washington to get help.
LEO MULLIN, CEO, DELTA AIR LINES: We have had an excellent response from the White House on all elements of the package.
CHERNOFF: A $15 billion package; $5 billion in cash grants, $10 billion for loan guarantees. On November 12, more tragedy: a deadly crash in Rockaway, New York. Though investigators believe it was an accident, the disaster made it even harder for airlines to get passengers back into the sky. Bargain fares are helping, proven to be an attractive lure. Traffic is gradually improving. Still, the financial cost is huge.
BRADFORD RICH, CFO, SKYWEST: In spite what has been, you know, some economic slowdown throughout the country, our passenger volumes have stayed relatively constant.
CHERNOFF: At year's end, the only profitable airlines are Southwest, Alaska Air and some regional carriers that are taking over short-haul routes. The trio of tragedy, terrorism and recession is causing the industry to report record losses likely to top $8 billion for the year.
Washington has already handed most of its grant money. Soon, only the federal loan guarantees will remain as a safety net for struggling airlines. The widespread fear in the industry is that the events of 2001 will force some airlines into bankruptcy in 2002. Allan Chernoff, CNN financial news, New York.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HOPKINS: One of the biggest expenses for airlines is jet fuel, airlines spend about $40 billion on supplies each year. Right now the industry is benefiting from lower oil costs. But crude oil prices have been rising this week, ahead of Friday's expected cut in oil supply by OPEC. This would be the fourth cut in production this year. The U.S. benchmark crude today gave back some of yesterdays strong gains, down 37 cents but over $20 dollars, $20.90 a barrel
Stocks advanced today on light volume. Dow industrials adding 43 points, the Nasdaq gaining 15. The S&P 500 up seven. We have complete coverage with Christine Romans at the New York Stock Exchange and Greg Clarkin at the Nasdaq marketsite. Let's begin with Christine.
CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: You know, Jan, it was a really interesting day, believe it or not, the Dow up 40 some points and trading was in yesterday's trading range, but did manage to eke out a closing four month high, also technicians are pointing out that the Dow closed above a 200 day moving average. The S&P is not quite there yet, but they're saying that this trend still looks like it is moving higher, even amid light holiday trade. We'll take a look at some of the winners here at the big board: Advanced Micro Devices up about 50 cents, Merrill Lynch thinks AMD's fourth quarter lost won't be as bad as it earlier expected, now it sees a loss of maybe 15 cents a share; Micron Technology another up side leader in chips, on hopes it will ink a deal with Hynex (ph). IBM, the only Dow component to move at least a point in either direction, the fortunes of the Dow really hinging on this one much of the day, every time it was up more than a dollar, the Dow was firm as well. And Target up $1.19. Some of these retailers actually doing a little bit better on the idea, Jan, that next year is just got to be better for the economy and consumer spending.
HOPKINS: Christine Romans, thank you.
Investors are picking up some technology stocks. Greg Clarkin is standing by at the Nasdaq market site, he has those details -- Greg.
GREG CLARKIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: And Jan, it was another one of those days of modest gains, you know, we're in between that period between holidays, where there is really little in the way of corporate news or research notes to drive trading. So we saw the Nasdaq in the early going up about 22 points, and again that was in about the first half hour of trading, after that a really quiet trading pattern, it ends up with about 16 point gain.
Here's some of the movers on the day: Sun Microsystems, the best of the big caps, was up 5 percent. Yahoo! wins a takeover battle for Hotjobs.com, that stock rose about 26 cents. And Atmel, this is a chip company, that makes chips for DVD Players, for cell phones, A.G. Edwards upgraded the stock to a strong buy, that stock rose 87 cents. And then finally Edison Schools, late in the day, a Pennsylvania judge cleared the way for Edison to run the Philadelphia schools, and that stock rose 34 cents on that news at 18.84. So again, Jan, light volumes, slightly ahead of yesterday's volume, but still modest very gains on quiet trading -- Jan.
HOPKINS: Thanks, Greg Clarkin, at the Nasdaq market site.
Thirty-year mortgage rates dipped just slightly this week while rates for 15-year mortgages held steady. But the trend in long term borrowing rates has been upward, in the past several weeks, on the belief that the recession will be short lived. Kathleen hays is here with a look at what may be pushing those rates higher or lower in the weeks ahead. Kathleen, which way?
KATHLEEN HAYS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, that's the key question isn't it Jan? And of course for anybody looking to buy a home, refinance a mortgage this is very important. And you had better pay attention to some of these forces pushing interest rates around, a 30- year fixed mortgage rate in the latest week 7.16 percent according to Freddie Mac -- on par almost with 7.1 a week before, although well above the low of 6.4 hit in early November. In fact that was a three- year low. Now you might say why are rates rising if we're in a recession?
Well, one reason, is that people are still buying homes. People have been flocking to the housing market. In fact, the mortgage bankers' purchase index, a weekly number, hit its highest level since they started tracking these numbers in 1990, this week. People say this is yet another sign perhaps of the economic recovery being at hand. Now, of course, most economist say definitely next year we'll be in recovery, some say second quarter, some people even say the first quarter. But again, that's another reason why interest rates are moving higher.
Some hints, though, that maybe some of this optimism is a bit premature. ABC/Money Magazine consumer comfort index this week hit a five year low. The conference board's help wanted index edged lower in November. It's barely half the level it was a year ago. Not too much improvement in the labor market. In fact, unemployment is expected to keep rising in 2002, so there's a big interplay of forces here. But some people, Jan, even think there's scope for after the first year if it isn't quite as robust as they think, maybe the stocks pause for a while, maybe the bond market does better, then maybe we'll see a little bit of relief in those mortgage rates, and that would be a good time for people to get off the dime and go to sign on the dotted line.
HOPKINS: Thanks, Kathleen Hays.
And as we approach the end of the year, our next guest says that one of the most important investing lessons of 2001 is actually the first rule of investing, and that's diversification. Fund manager Mark Klee joins us now. Mark, you run a technology fund, how do you diversify within a technology fund?
MARK KLEE, AMERICAN FUND ADVISORS: You just use it as a part of the portfolio, obviously I can't do that. Although, I can amongst the different sectors of technology. We all think of technology as this one area. But it really is comprised of a number, but I think for the average investor that really is the critical thing. What happens, the tendency is to -- whatever was hot, that's what I want to own. And I think in 2000-2001, you saw that technology wasn't the place. Now lately it has been bonds, its been value, that's where the money is flowing, that may not be the proper strategy either.
HOPKINS: So do you think technology -- technology has done well, since the end of September. Will it continue to do well into the new year?
I think it will do quite well, but not nearly at the pace it's done. And technology investors almost become a different world. They think that everything should happen and happen immediately. I think they'll find in the year 2002, everything is going to slow down. I think volatility is going to slow, I think market returns will slow. I think technology will out perform, as will most of the softer cyclicals, the ones that have economic influence, but don't need tremendous economic strength but slower returns.
HOPKINS: So if you bought Cisco at the high, you're not going to see see it go back to that level in a while.
KLEE: It will be years, in my opinion. And the truth is if you bought Cisco at 60 and 70, and you saw it go down to 11, yes it has doubled off the bottom, doesn't make you feel a whole lot better. And if it goes up 50 percent in the next year or two, which would be an unbelievable return, you're still not going to feel a whole lot better.
HOPKINS: So what areas of technology look particularly good to you, next year?
KLEE: I want to be involved in the areas that are more economically sensitive. Because I really do believe the economy will start to show signs of improvement, as we move into the spring and the summer. So therefore semiconductors and related capital equipment, software, not particularly the large ones, but the second tier, and contract manufacturers -- all of whom benefit from increased utilization.
HOPKINS: Just name a couple of them.
KLEE: OK, in the semiconductor it would be things like Taiwan Semiconductor. Contract manufacturers, Flextronics would be a good example. Mercury Interactive, in the software space. And then actually one of my favorite stocks is CNN's parent, America Online.
HOPKINS: Thanks.
KLEE: My pleasure, Jan.
HOPKINS: Mark Klee. And just ahead, an initial public offering of sorts, the National Zoo of Washington shows off its newest edition. And a duck that has customers flocking to a health insurance company.
ANNOUNCER: Next, Jan talks with Daniel Amos, chairman and CEO of AFLAC.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HOPKINS: The insurance business is hoping for a strong comeback after the worst year ever. Despite the weak conditions, one company, AFLAC, is projecting double-digit growth for the next two years. AFLAC is one of the largest sellers of supplemental insurance in the U.S. and it's a leader in Japan. Also helping the company grow, a series of well-known television commercials.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, ADVERTISEMENT)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hey if we get hurt -- whoa -- good thing we've got that insurance.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What's that?
VOICE OF DUCK: AFLAC!
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What did you say?
DUCK: AFLAC!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HOPKINS: The latest commercial is part of a new campaign that's set for launch during the Super Bowl. Joining us tonight is Dan Amos. He is chairman & CEO of AFLAC. Everybody knows the commercial. They know the duck. Does it really help sell insurance?
DANIEL AMOS, CHAIRMAN & CEO, AFLAC: Well, it's made a tremendous difference for us. What happens is most people in America, if you say, I want to talk to you about insurance, a wall goes up, and people say I don't need any insurance. But when you turn around and say, oh, I'm with AFLAC, they say, oh, you're the one that has the AFLAC duck commercial. And the wall comes down. Now great salespeople can climb the wall, but it's much easier if the wall is down. So it has made a tremendous difference and we've seen that reflected in our sales for the last several years.
HOPKINS: Now what has happened after September 11? Are people more interested in having more insurance, just in case?
AMOS: Well, what we've seen is is that right after September 11, everyone lost interest in just about everything except what was going on in the world. But it is gradually come back, and in fact, we're back on target. And we will end up this year with above a 25 percent increase in new sales. So it's moving back and people are more interested in insurance, I believe, because they're worried about their safety and want to make sure they're insured properly.
HOPKINS: But we're in a time of recession. And this kind of insurance is usually done by companies. Companies are cutting back at this point. Isn't this kind of an additional expense that they might be cutting?
AMOS: Well, no. In fact, the employees pay 100 percent of the cost of the insurance. It's offered through payroll deduction. We have over 200,000 payroll deduction accounts here in the United States. To give you an idea, there are 5.5 million accounts in America that are under 500 in size. And then we have large accounts, too. We recently enrolled Wal-Mart. So we have a wide range of customers and accounts. And with the employees paying for it, it help fills those voids in the insurance coverage that they have.
HOPKINS: You do a lot of business in Japan. And Japan, we hear now, a post-war record high for unemployment in Japan, 5.5 percent. What do you see going on there? Is there a bottom to this recession?
AMOS: Well, there's no question, it's a very difficult environment. But it's been that way for several years. And everything tends to be cyclical. And so, at some point, it will improve. Our projections are for it to stay in the range that it is today. But certainly, we look for it to improve at some point here.
HOPKINS: Thanks very much. Dan Amos, the chairman and CEO of AFLAC.
AMOS: Thank you.
HOPKINS: And "WOLF BLITZER REPORTS" begins in a few minutes. And for a preview, let's go to Wolf in Washington -- Wolf.
WOLF BLITZER, "WOLF BLITZER REPORTS": Thank you very much, Jan. We're standing by for a FBI news conference in Chicago. That 16- month-old girl allegedly abducted Christmas Eve at a bus station in Chicago has been found. We'll go live to the news conference when it happens. Also, Osama bin Laden's latest videotape: We'll have excerpts and explore what it means here in our CNN WAR ROOM. It's all ahead at the top of the hour -- Jan.
HOPKINS: Thanks, Wolf.
The National Zoo in Washington today showed off its newest addition. It's a Sumatran tiger cub. It's called Berani. Berani, whose name means brave in Sri Lankan, was born September 11 -- rather 18th -- but it made its public debut today. More than 1,000 visitors came to see the 20-pound cub. Sumatran tigers are endangered species. Less than 500 live in the wild, 170 live in zoos.
Coming up next, a look at your e-mail and some of what's coming up tomorrow.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HOPKINS: Tomorrow, reports on the economy include consumer confidence, durable goods orders, new and existing home sales and weekly jobless claims will be reported tomorrow. The government holiday delayed the report by one day. OPEC holds a special meeting in Cairo, Egypt to talk about whether to proceed with a 1.5 million barrel a day cut in production.
Now for a look at your thoughts. From Chris Connolly (ph): The number one issue to be addressed by a stimulus package is jobs. We need to get people back to work -- he says -- not keep them on welfare longer. Most Americans want to work.
Gus writes in with a question on bonds: I would like to invest in a bond index fund. He says, "Are there ETFs -- that's exchange traded funds -- that track the bond market?" Stock ETFs, like spiders and triple Q's, have become very popular. They allow investors to trade baskets of securities like individual stocks. But tradable bond funds are still in the planning stages. Eric Jacobson at Morningstar says one reason they haven't taken off is that they're not as exciting or attractive as their stock counterparts. For instance, a lot of advantages in equity ETFs don't translate to the bond market. Right now, Jacobson says they're more evolutionary than revolutionary. But if you're looking for exposure in bonds, consider conventional bond index mutual funds.
E-mail us at moneyline@cnn.com. Please include your name and address.
That is MONEYLINE for this Thursday evening. Thanks for joining us. I'm Jan Hopkins in for Lou Dobbs. Good night from New York. "WOLF BLITZER REPORTS" begins right now.
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