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CNN Talkback Live
America Speaks Out: Free-for-All Friday
Aired December 28, 2001 - 15:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
DARYN KAGAN, HOST: Would you call these men accidental terrorists?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He had -- or rather, was targeted by some of the extremists who might have recruited him to do such dirty work.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I couldn't say at all that he had anything against the United States.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
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FRANK LINDH, JOHN WALKER'S FATHER: I don't think my son has done anything wrong. I think he used bad judgment.
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KAGAN: Also, profiles. One of the president's guard is kicked off a plane.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: If he was treated that way because of his ethnicity, that's -- that will make me madder than heck.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KAGAN: Would it make you mad?
And (UNINTELLIGIBLE).
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We should think about a soaring, monumental, beautiful memorial.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KAGAN: How do you view resurrection at ground zero?
It's the last Friday of 2001. Thanks for joining us, everyone. Welcome to TALKBACK LIVE, America Speaks Out. I'm Daryn Kagan, your host for today. It is -- get ready for this one, guys -- it is free- for-all Friday. Joining us today, a great crowd of talk show hosts, including with us right here in Atlanta Kevin Miller, he's a radio talk show host on WERC in Birmingham, Alabama. Lincoln Ware, host of the Lincoln Ware Show. Funny how that works, Lincoln? He does that at WBZ (sic) in Cincinnati.
LINCOLN WARE, WDBZ TALK SHOW HOST: WDBZ.
KAGAN: Oh, OK. Thanks for correcting me.
Rebecca Hagelin, a columnist and vice president of communications for WorldNetDaily.com. And also, from my hometown, Marc Germain, known as Mr. KABC, in Los Angeles. Welcome to all of you.
We are going to get started right away with a story that's been at the front of the news today by putting a face on terror, as the suspected shoe bomber is in court once again. Meanwhile, the mother of another accused terrorist makes her plea, and with all the latest on that let's bring in our national correspondent Susan Candiotti who's been with us much of this week and brings us up to date on the investigation. Susan, hello.
SUSAN CANDIOTTI, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hello, Daryn.
First of all, there was a detention hearing today in Boston for Richard Reid, he is known as the alleged shoe bomber, who allegedly tried to ignite some sneakers packed with explosives, allegedly, aboard American Airlines flight 63 just last week.
What happened today was that a judge, a federal magistrate, agreed to hold Reid without bond, ordering him to be -- or rather ruling that he is a risk of flight and a danger to the community. This is not a surprising development.
Also, prosecutors said that they have 30 days to convene a grand jury and possibly come up with additional charges. Right now, Reid faces charges only of inference with a flight crew.
So as that investigation goes on, we are also learning the following: According to a U.S. government official, Reid told the FBI once he was arrested that he himself made that bomb, by himself, and that he acted alone -- this according to a source. Now, sources say that the FBI doubts that this is true, given the highly sophisticated nature of the explosive sneakers -- Daryn.
KAGAN: Did they learn more about the explosive material, actually, Susan?
CANDIOTTI: They did. There was testimony in court today from an FBI agent who said that one of the key ingredients is something called TATP. Now, as we understand it, according to explosives experts, that would have been used as an explosives material used to detonate the sneakers. We also know from sources that the sneakers were said to contain something called PETN, another highly volatile explosive.
We also know, according to sources, that there was a safety fuse inside filled with black powder, that there was no metal inside the shoe which might have prevented moisture from entering the shoe. As you recall, Reid allegedly had trouble igniting the sneakers.
KAGAN: And thank goodness for that. As we have been telling you all week, Susan, every time you joined us, this is one of the favorite segments for our audience members, because they get to skip over the anchors and the hosts and get right to the correspondent with their questions. And the first question for you comes from John from Georgia. John, go ahead. I'll hold the mike, you ask the question, OK? That's the rules.
JOHN: Hi, Susan. I just wanted to ask about was there any discussion of the alleged link in Jerusalem where "The Jerusalem Post" indicated that he had been detained two or three months ago by security people in Jerusalem. Was there any discussion of some of these other places where he has been involved in such incidents as what happened in Jerusalem?
CANDIOTTI: Well, none of that came up in court today. This was strictly for the purpose of determining whether he would be held without bond. However, we have reported and have confirmed that officials for El Al Airlines tell us that when Reid was boarding a plane from an unidentified city, they won't tell us which one, on El Al to go to Israel back in July, he was indeed singled out, and they won't tell us why he was. But they did a body search, and they also removed his shoes and checked those as well.
Currently, the FBI and Israeli officials are looking into why Reid was in Israel for about 10 days or so last July. They are looking to see, for example, did he meet with anyone, and was he checking out security for the airline. Was he planning a future attack.
KAGAN: Meanwhile, we're starting to hear from some of the family members in this case, aren't we, Susan?
CANDIOTTI: Yes, we are. His mother -- Reid's mother -- remained in exclusion all day yesterday. However, today she came out and briefly addressed cameras with a lawyer at her side. And she said that she knew nothing more about any of this other than what she has read in media reports, and said that she is shocked about what happened, doesn't understand it, and is very concerned for her son and asked for her privacy at this time.
KAGAN: And didn't his father say from England that he said that his son's is not a bad lad and that he must have been brainwashed, because clearly his son couldn't have done something like this, acting just as his son.
CANDIOTTI: Well, we do know according to a newspaper interview that Reid's father did -- with -- it's called "The Daily Mail" -- that indeed the father believes that his son was probably brainwashed. Now, his father, like son, both spent time in prison. Reportedly, the father said that he encouraged his son once he left prison to convert to Islam to try to turn his life around. And apparently, the last time he had contact with him, according to the newspaper report, was about three or four years ago, that's about the same time his mother had said she had contact with him, and at that time she said he was in Pakistan.
KAGAN: And you touched on this a little bit, but why will it be significant whether or not Richard Reid acted by himself?
CANDIOTTI: Well, because that might establish a terror link. Was he acting by himself or did he have other accomplices? The FBI did confirm today that as soon as the plane landed, of course, they had already checked the manifest. They interviewed all the passengers. And the FBI says it's convinced no one else on that plane was acting with Reid.
However, they remain thoroughly unconvinced that he was acting by himself, and they are trying to establish whether he had help. After all, he did a lot of traveling in the last six months. That's not cheap. He paid $1,800 cash to buy that plane ticket from Paris to Miami, and how did he pay for all of these trips, given the fact that he reportedly was doing very menial jobs over the past six months traveling through Europe.
KAGAN: Lots of questions and answers. Susan Candiotti, so informative as always, thank you very much. Thanks for joining us most of the week here on TALKBACK LIVE. Appreciate it. And a happy new year to you.
Let's go to our guests, our talk show hosts. Kevin Miller, you are here with us in Atlanta.
KEVIN MILLER, WERC RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: Yes, I am.
KAGAN: That you are. Do you think that Richard Reid acted by himself.
MILLER: No. As Susan pointed out, I mean, where did he get the money, the connections? Working very menial jobs, his education level not that high. And I'm just surprised that the passengers on that plane, in light of what happened, that Reid made it out alive. You talk about compassion. They had to sedate him. I'm surprised that people just didn't really just beat the hell out of him, personally. Trying to blow people up? I mean, that's the type of things we need.
KAGAN: You got a response there out of Don. Don, do you think that's a good idea on a plane if you think something is going on, just take justice into your own hands on the plane?
DON: No. I think in this day and age people who are flying in airplanes have to be willing and able, if something happens and they are called upon, to help, to be up, to get up and help out. And if attacks him and beat the hell out of them, that's the way it goes. KAGAN: You are OK with that, Rebecca?
REBECCA HAGELIN, WORLDNETDAILY.COM: Well, you know, one of the reasons that I'm comfortable flying now is not because I think airport security has been increased -- because I really don't think it has -- it's because of the fellow passengers. I know that I'm alert as to what is going on. And I know that people are going to take somebody down if they are a threat to the airplane.
I mean, a lot of what's been done in airport security has just been window dressing to make us feel better, and those strong measures that need to be taken have not yet been taken. And I think it's time for people to realize, just like the pilot on the American Airlines who was trying to protect his passengers from somebody he felt suspicious about, the Secret Service agent, it's time for people to take some measures and realize, you know, I'm going to have to protect myself and I'm going to be alert on this plane because so far our government hasn't done a very good job of increasing airline security.
KAGAN: Yeah, we're going to get to the topic of the Secret Service agent. Go ahead, audience, if you agree with Rebecca.
(APPLAUSE)
KAGAN: We're going to get to that topic of the Secret Service agent and getting kicked off the American Airlines flight in just a moment.
But Lincoln, let's bring you in here. Are you proud of those people on board that plane, that American Airlines flight going from Paris?
WARE: You have got to willing to virtually take somebody's life, if you have to, to save your own on a plane like that. What surprises me, if this guy Reid, if he had used the last name of Mohammed or Abdul, he never wouldn't have been able to get on that plane. So what they are doing now, they are profiling by names. If his name had been Ali or Abdul, we wouldn't even know about this. He never wouldn't have been able to get on the plane, don't you think?
KAGAN: Well, I don't know. I think there's a lot of people with names like that are still traveling. Again, we're going to get to the whole profiling issue in a moment.
First to our audience, and do you think if Richard Reid acted alone?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I definitely think he acted alone. If you go back and look at the other al Qaeda attacks and see how planned they were, and this guy, the way he acted and from what I understand the bomb would not even have been activated because there was enough moisture which had been absorbed enough so that the bomb would not have acted. And if he really had other inference and if this would have been really thought out, the bomb would have exploded. But from what I hear now, the bomb had even no chance of exploding. KAGAN: Like maybe the guy could have used a little of a help, perhaps. Thank goodness he didn't have it. OK. We want to know if our audience at home thinks that Richard Reid acted alone. You can call in, e-mail us or go right online to CNN.com and take our TALKBACK LIVE online viewer vote. CNN.com/talkback, AOL keyword CNN. You see the question right there. Do you think Richard Reid acted alone? So far, 87 percent think that he had help.
We need your help. Stay with us.
Coming up, why was one of President Bush's security guards booted from a commercial flight?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
IBRAHIM HOOPER, COUNCIL, AMERICAN-ISLAMIC RELATIONS: They don't say, "get off the plane, you stinking Arab," they -- you know, there are other things that occur that indicate what's going on here. I think it's clear that if this person had been non-Muslim, non-Arab American, that there wouldn't have been a problem.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KAGAN: Was ethnic profiling to blame? And, when it comes to your flight, is profiling ever OK with you?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KAGAN: Welcome back to TALKBACK LIVE. We're going to do something today we don't usually do. We're bringing back a topic from yesterday, because it got such a huge response and people were still talking about it. So here we go, back with the story of one of President Bush's Secret Service agents. He was booted off of an American Airplanes flight earlier this week. That after the pilot questioned his credentials.
We should say the agent is of Arab American descent, and he was trying to fly from Washington to Texas. This guy's job is to protect the president of the United States at his Crawford ranch. The airline denies profiling this agent because of his ethnicity. They say it was the agent, who was carrying a gun, that the agent failed to fill out his paperwork correctly.
What is going on here and what do people think? We're going to go to Marc Germain in L.A., because, Marc, we didn't hear from you in that last segment.
MARC GERMAIN, KABC TALK SHOW HOST: Yeah, well, you know, it seems to me that the airlines are desperate to sell seats, and the idea that they would kick someone off just because of their ethnicity is...
KAGAN: Now, keep in mind, the airline says they didn't do it because of the ethnicity.
GERMAIN: I believe that they didn't. I believe that they had red flags being raised by a man with a gun who didn't fill out paperwork properly. And if I were the airlines, I wouldn't let that person on an airplane either. If I was a pilot of that airplane, I'd ask that person to leave too.
WARE: It would only take a phone call to clear the whole matter up. We have come to a climate now where if you are a person of color, you will be profiled, and I think that's a bad thing, because there's a lot of Timothy McVeighs out there lurking around.
GERMAIN: Do you really believe...
(CROSSTALK)
GERMAIN: Do you really believe that people of color aren't flying airplanes?
WARE: Say what now?
GERMAIN: Do you believe that people of color aren't being allowed to fly on airplanes? I mean, that's ludicrous.
WARE: They are being allowed, but they are being scrutinized more than your average everyday Tim McVeigh type person.
HAGELIN: You know what, we need to look at the facts here...
KAGAN: Hold on, I want to go to our audience. Here's Anna.
ANNA: Hi. I believe that there should be a very set and regimented procedure to go through in this instance, but the bottom line is that the pilot is responsible for every life, every person on that airplane and the airplane itself. So if he feels uncomfortable in any way, shape or form, he should feel free to boot him off the plane. Better safe than sorry.
KAGAN: Kevin Miller, what do you think?
MILLER: I think the pilot should be commended, and the problem we are talking about with profiling and this and that -- all it is a device of influence. What we are trying to do here is save lives. Thank God the pilot decided to do something. Somebody has a gun on a plane, you boot them off. I won't say the H word again, but you know what I'm saying. We are talking about saving lives here, now all of a sudden we're saying we're profiling. You know something? Look at the attack on the World Trade Center. Look at the attack on the USS Cole. What do these people have in common? We are in a war. It is time to end being politically correct.
HAGELIN: That's absolutely right.
KAGAN: We go to the phones now. And Dean is on the phone with us from Florida. Dean, go ahead, it's your turn.
DEAN: Yes, I agree with many of the comments that you have already said. In fact, I think in a time of war profiling is appropriate, and there's a common thread with the previous hijackers and the terrorists, and I think one other thing too: It does goes to show you that we need conformity and consistency in our security, and perhaps even using face recognition technology to perhaps even catch these people before they get on the planes.
HAGELIN: And I would like to offer up another term here. We call it "racial profiling." Let's look at the facts. Let's call it "hijacker profiling." One hundred percent of those that were involved in the World Trade Center met a certain profile. And that pilot of that plane...
KAGAN: But 100 percent of the people who look like that are not hijackers. Most of them are law-abiding citizens.
HAGELIN: That's absolutely correct. But when you come on a plane with a gun, especially if you are a Secret Service agent -- you know who is at fault here? It's the agent that didn't fill out the forms properly. To me, that pilot is a hero. The pilot is a hero.
KAGAN: We have a minute left in this segment. Let's go to our audience. Here's Diana. Diana, go ahead with your comment.
DIANA: Yeah, I fly twice a month between Detroit Metro and Atlanta, and I always pay attention to who they randomly pull out. One of the lady's comments about being scrutinized, and more often than not it is an ethnic person, and then they try and call up some Smith to observe or look at.
HAGELIN: Yeah, I have done a whole series of articles on WorldNetDaily.com on airline security and how there is just this appearance of security now. You know what we need are more pilots who take the initiative like that one that kicked this guy off the plane.
The pilots in America and even in the world are the most professionally scrutinized, psychologically scrutinized group of professionals in the country. They have to report tickets, they have to go under psychological profiling, they are an extremely intelligent group of people. Over 50 percent of them have military training. Every day they get on the plane they put their lives in their own hands and those of hundreds of people on the plane, and we need to start empowering them. I think we should even move to arming pilots, personally.
(CROSSTALK)
KAGAN: Marc, I need to hold on. It is a hot topic. We are going to keep it going after the commercial break. Right now, we do need to get a break in. We'll get to the phones, also to our audience and also to Marc Germain in L.A. Right now, a quick break.
Still ahead, making peace at ground zero.
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MAYOR RUDY GIULIANI, NEW YORK CITY: We have to be able to create something here that enshrines this forever, and that allows people to build on it and grow from it. (END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KAGAN: Welcome back to TALKBACK LIVE. The conversation continues about what happened to the Secret Service agent on board that American Airlines flight. Let's listen once again -- President Bush had a news conference today, a small news conference at his ranch in Crawford, Texas. He talked about the situation. Let's listen to what the president had to say.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BUSH: I talked to the man this morning. I told him how proud I was that he was by my side. He's here on the ranch, and he's guarding me. And of course I was. We'll let the facts -- you know, they are going to get the facts out, there is an inquiry going on as to specifically what took place, but if he was treated that way because of his ethnicity, that's -- that will make me madder than heck.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KAGAN: President of the United States from Crawford, Texas today. We go to the phones. Mike in New York, go ahead.
MIKE: Yes. I have a two-fold point. One is, since there was no hijacking in over a decade I think we the people let our guard down and fell asleep. And that incident where they just threw off the agent should have never happened, because number one, the pilot shouldn't have opened the cockpit. He just opened the door, left it open. And also, if this man was allowed on as a Secret Service agent, this man has passed more stringent guidelines than anybody else because he protects the president of the United States.
KAGAN: Mike, thank you very much. We go back to our audience. Nish (ph), go ahead.
NISH: Well, I agree exactly with what American Airlines said and what the pilot did, because what the pilot did was looking out for the other 100 people that were on the airplane. Bottom line is that we are at war right now, and there's a group of people out there that are out to get us. It's better safe than sorry.
And also, it would make more sense if -- well, traveled twice this year so far since all of this has happened, and we have a lot of family that's traveling, and it's almost like everyone is overcompensating as to make sure that we are not feeling like we are being racially profiled. And you know, if this happens now and then, I feel much more comfortable with a guy with a gun being off the plane that hasn't been cleared by security than with a guy with a gun on the airplane.
KAGAN: (UNINTELLIGIBLE) go ahead.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I really like what the president said. If it was done on the basis of his ethnicity, something is wrong. We are based a nation of laws, and I'm a Presbyterian minister from an Arab American heritage. I did the memorial service after September the 11th, and the most thing that moved me was a man by the name of Abdullah who came after the service and said, my grandfather was a U.S. veteran. My father is a U.S. veteran and he is a U.S. veteran, and work all his life in CDC.
Simply because his name is Abdullah and simply because he's an Arab American, he's out of the picture? No. The United States of America is a nation that have people from more than 180 nations. That's the beauty of America, and that's what makes America beautiful more than any other nation.
KAGAN: Go ahead. Lincoln, go ahead.
WARE: He's right. And all I was saying, you know, we are in a state of war that one person just said. We are in a state of war, let's treat everybody like they could be the potential enemy. Let's not concentrate on one.
MILLER: And we have done that.
WARE: No, we haven't! No, we haven't.
MILLER: If you look at people going to -- going to airports and stuff. I have traveled three times. You have Marine Corps soldiers, Marines being frisked down. You have 3-year-old children going through the metal detectors. This is ridiculous and absurd, to keep about racial profiling and being politically...
HAGELIN: Absolutely. It's crazy, my 9-year-old daughter was searched.
(CROSSTALK)
WARE: You know, we look at Timothy McVeigh...
MILLER: Timothy McVeigh did not blow up the World Trade Center! What he did was horrible...
(CROSSTALK)
MILLER: ... how come we didn't stop the man who wanted to blow everyone up with his shoes, really?
HAGELIN: Yes, what we have are common-sense measures that are not being taken. And for anybody, even the president of the United States -- as much as I think he's doing a good job -- but for anybody to fault that pilot for following his gut instinct with the information that he had, and sending a man with a gun off the plane that fit a hijacker profile, I'm sorry, but I have an issue with people who are faulting that pilot.
(CROSSTALK)
KAGAN: OK, now we are getting to the point where we are repeating points. So we are going to move on, move on to the next topic. We call this "Free-For-All Friday." So it's free.
So we are moving on to New York City and talking about what should happen where the World Trade Center used to stand. Do you rebuild the towers, as Rudy Giuliani has suggested, and create a memorial? What do you do at ground zero to honor the dead, the heroes and the moment in time that marked this collective horror?
Rudy Giuliani gave his goodbye speech yesterday. Let's listen in to what he thinks should happen at that site.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GIULIANI: I really believe we shouldn't think about this site out there right beyond us right here as a site for economic development. I think we should think about it this way. We should think about how we can find the most creative minds possible, who love and honor America, and can express that in artistic ways that I can't, but they can.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KAGAN: This is going to get a little bit heated, because the new incoming mayor, Mike Bloomberg, has a different opinion. He's talking about some mixed use, where you would have some economic development there.
Marc Germain, you're in L.A. What do you think should happen?
GERMAIN: Well, you know, city planners and architects will tell that you that land is so valuable that the idea of just leaving it as some kind of an open park really isn't realistic.
KAGAN: Well, yes, what if you are the developer, Larry Silverstein, and you own this zillion-dollar -- you have the rights, the lease on this, and you're just going to make it a park?
GERMAIN: Look, the property didn't do anything wrong. The buildings didn't do anything wrong. The terrorists did something wrong when they attacked those buildings with airplanes. And there's no reason why they can't rebuild buildings. They probably won't rebuild what was the Trade towers at 110 stories, but probably -- probably one or two 50-story buildings is appropriate.
KAGAN: And you're OK with that?
(CROSSTALK)
KAGAN: Kevin Miller, what do you think about that? What if that was your wife or your father or your son that was killed there? Would you want someone putting an office building on the place where that loved one died?
MILLER: No, not at all. And we talk about commercialism and money. Tell that to the families. Tell that to the people that have been to ground zero that are working there every day. There's more important things in life than money. Certainly, the worst tragedy that happened to this country is one of them. We are not building speedboat ramps at Pearl Harbor. Why should we build buildings at ground zero?
(APPLAUSE)
HAGELIN: I think the situation is a little different. First of all, we do need to take into account what are the wishes of the person who owns the land. Yes, can there be some memorial there and should there be? Certainly, there should be.
(CROSSTALK)
KAGAN: Well, it's not a person. It's the government authority that owns it. And it's a person that has the lease rights to it.
HAGELIN: Exactly, who owns the lease rights to it.
But I don't think -- there's no reason why there can't be a combination. Those people who worked in the World Trade Center were capitalists. Many of them believed in the capitalist society. And I think to take away an entire economic center of New York City is kind of serving what the terrorists want to do: destroy the economy. I think we can come up with something that serves the purpose of what this nation is all about, freedom, freedom to pursue your dreams economically, and also memorialize those people who were hurt. There is no reason we can't do that.
KAGAN: We are going to go to our audience right now. And we have two viewpoints from two different generations, first from Violet, who is 94. And then we are going to hear from Rachel, who is 14.
Ms. Violet, you go first.
VIOLET: I think that they should build the new ones even higher, just to show them we are not afraid, than they had the old ones.
(APPLAUSE)
KAGAN: You go, Violet. Very good.
Rachel, what do you think?
RACHEL: No, because twice as many people who died in Pearl Harbor did. And that's wrong. That's disrespecting the dead.
KAGAN: There you go. You have the two different generations, Violet and Rachel.
WARE: If you don't rebuild, the terrorists win.
KAGAN: Final word from Lincoln here.
OK, coming up next, we move on yet again, take a break, but come up next and move on to the next topic. A convicted kidnapper apparently repeats her crime. Didn't 5 1/2 months in jail teach Sheila Matthews a lesson? We'll find out. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MARCELLA ANDERSON, MOTHER OF JASMINE: I'm grateful for everyone, the news, "The Milwaukee Journal," all the newspapers, everyone who had anything to do with the safe return, especially the family members who were brave enough to come forward and had a really good heart. And God bless everyone who helped. And thank you very much.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(APPLAUSE)
KAGAN: All right, we move on to our latest topic. Baby Jasmine, kidnapped from a Chicago Greyhound station on Christmas Eve, has been found safe. That's the good news in West Virginia. We are working on getting our correspondent up, Jeff Flock. He has been following the story.
Meanwhile, we go to our guests.
Lincoln Ware, as you were following the story, did anything just seem strange to you?
WARE: Well, at first, she sort of reminded me of Susan Smith.
KAGAN: The mother.
WARE: I had flashbacks of Susan Smith. Remember her?
KAGAN: Yes, she was the mother who drowned her two sons in the lake in South Carolina.
WARE: I'm glad everything turned out. But I'm trying to figure out, if you kidnap someone and you only get five months in jail, I can't understand that one.
KAGAN: OK, let's get more on the facts of the case and find out about this.
Jeff Flock in Chicago -- Jeff, I understand you have some new information for us. Go ahead.
JEFF FLOCK, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Daryn, if you can hear me here out at Midway Airport.
We are at a hangar, the ATA hangar, where we await 16-month-old Jasmine Anderson. And we are told she will be here in about now two hours, running a little bit late -- so, as you can see, perhaps, all of the folks that are gathering here for this happy ending to this story.
Her mother flew out to West Virginia this morning and is coming back on an FBI aircraft with this girl. We have got the latest pictures, I think, Daryn, just in to CNN of the little girl with a, I think it's a blue FBI cap that she's wearing there -- obviously, the FBI having a big role in cracking this.
But, really, the break in the case came from the relatives of this woman, the presumed kidnapper's boyfriend. This woman apparently went to the bus station on Christmas Eve desperately seeking a child, because she told her boyfriend that she was pregnant and had his baby while he was in prison. He was out and wanted to see the child. And so she needed a child, very desperate to get one on Christmas Eve. And it was Jasmine Anderson, 16 months old, her mother somewhat harried from an already long trip, who let this woman watch her 16- month-old baby for a short time.
And that's where it all went wrong. So that's where it stands here. Obviously, we are preparing now for a reunion with the rest of the family. That will include her father, Greg Knowles, as well as Jasmine's mother, the grandmother -- and so everybody very eager to see them back here in Chicago -- Daryn.
KAGAN: Jeff, what more can you tell us about the woman who now is accused of doing this kidnapping?
FLOCK: Yes. You know, I don't know if you mentioned this earlier. You may have. I wasn't hearing -- that she had been arrested and had plead guilty to kidnapping back in 1988. It was a case in Seattle, Washington, where she abducted a 2-1/2-year-old-girl from their parents. She was sentenced to 5 1/2 months in prison and 12 months of supervision.
And that's the only one we can nail down. But this woman's grandmother, when interviewed by reporters, said, well, you need to throw the book at her, because she's done this twice before -- so an indication that perhaps there was at least another incident as well that we haven't really nailed down yet -- so clearly a ticking problem there.
KAGAN: And where is she. Where is the suspect right now?
FLOCK: She is in West Virginia. She appeared before a magistrate this morning in West Virginia, apparently very distraught. In Charleston is where the appearance was made. Her next appearance is January 3. She has been turned over to the care of the U.S. Marshals and will be in custody until that next court appearance.
So, as Marcella Anderson, the girl's mother, said yesterday, "I hope she's learned a very valuable lesson, because I certainly have. And asked what that lesson was, it was, "Don't trust anyone, even on Christmas Eve."
KAGAN: Yes, sad that it has to come to that. We are looking forward to the reunion pictures and seeing little baby Jasmine there with you at Midway.
Jeff Flock, thanks so much for the latest on that.
FLOCK: Thanks, Daryn.
KAGAN: Let's go to you, Kevin Miller. What should happen to a woman like this? If it indeed is true that she has a history of abductions like this, is this somebody who should be thrown -- the book thrown at her, or is this someone who is mentally ill and needs help?
MILLER: Either or. She shouldn't be allowed back outside. Jeff was saying that her grandmother said: Well, this is the second time; we should throw the book at her.
The book should have been thrown at her the first time, so there is no second time or third time. Lock her up and send her home.
(APPLAUSE)
KAGAN: Lincoln, does it concern you that there's people out there on the streets? Here was a young mother traveling with two little kids, so stressful on Christmas Eve. And all she did was turn to a stranger, who was saying that she would help her. And look at the nightmare it turned in to.
WARE: And, hopefully, this is a lesson to all women who are traveling with children. Do not give -- trust anyone with your children. And she said
(CROSSTALK)
KAGAN: And how about a lesson to dad that dad should have been traveling with the mom so it wouldn't be so stressful? How about that, ladies?
(CROSSTALK)
WARE: I think if a dad had seen somebody walking away with their child, they would have knocked down everybody in their path.
HAGELIN: Oh, come on. Don't make this into a male-female thing. That's ridiculous for you to make it a male-female thing.
(CROSSTALK)
HAGELIN: The book should have been thrown at the woman to begin with. She clearly has some problems. Society needs to be protected from her, while we figure out what is going on in her head, not to excuse her behavior, but to help treat this woman.
I think there's a whole body of science out there about how the brain works and how people are involved in criminal behavior. And we need to take that information and apply it, not just to this case, but to others to prevent this type of thing from happening in the future.
MILLER: The treatment should be 20 to life.
HAGELIN: Absolutely.
WARE: Who was the judge who spanked her on the wrist? Who was that judge?
(CROSSTALK)
KAGAN: Let's get that judge on the phone.
Meanwhile, though, let's go to the audience. And Chris has Pelavi (ph).
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think that lady was really wrong, because, instead of just going and taking a baby she doesn't even know off a bus, she could have just adopted one and not be accused of taking it. And she could keep her for the rest of her life, instead of just -- instead of stealing one.
KAGAN: And hurting somebody else. Pelavi, thank you. How old are you, Pelavi?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'm 10.
KAGAN: Ten. From a 10-year-old, more wisdom than from a grown woman.
Let's go to the phones. Mike, you take it from here.
CALLER: Yes, Daryn. In regards to the entire situation, No. 1, parental irresponsibility: I mean, a woman that is a mom should know well enough that you don't trust anybody, especially in a bus station.
And, also, in regards to Lincoln's comment, hear, hear, buddy. Had it been my kid being walked away with, I would have knocked down everybody, gotten ahold of that woman by the nape of the neck, and she would have been in real problems right then and there.
KAGAN: There's probably a lot of moms who would have done the same thing.
HAGELIN: That's right.
KAGAN: And a lot of moms asking a question about why that woman didn't lunge after the woman when she saw her walk away with her baby.
We want to go back to our audience and Ann from California.
ANN: Hi.
I'm from Modesto, California. And I don't know if people realize the anguish that family members go through when someone is missing, may it be a small child like this or an adult like we have missing from Modesto, Chandra Levy. And I think that, if you think about the anguish that that family went through, five months, five years, is too little time for that woman to ever serve in prison. She should have the book thrown at her.
(CROSSTALK)
KAGAN: In terms of having the book thrown at her, Catherine here in our audience has a different opinion about that.
It's not so simple? You just can't throw the book at them, Catherine?
CATHERINE: I object to this gentleman's viewpoint.
MILLER: Kevin Miller.
CATHERINE: Kevin Miller -- throw the book at her for 20 years. But what happens while they are in prison? When she comes out, she just is going to go back and do the same thing again, if that is what she has a need to.
GERMAIN: Prison is not the place for someone like this.
(CROSSTALK)
HAGELIN: I was going say that that's my point in all of this.
MILLER: I wanted her to finish her statement. I think she was talking to me.
The bottom line is, she doesn't get out. That's it. I don't care about treatment. Let's get rid of her so she doesn't harm anybody else's kid. Why do we care so much about the criminals and not the victims? That's the problem in our society today.
(CROSSTALK)
CATHERINE: But when you put people out into the society, you just don't let them have the same mentality as when they went in. You should -- there is some way you should be educating them, treating them. She's a victim herself, if she has this disease.
(CROSSTALK)
MILLER: She needs to be put away. Rehabilitation is not going to work on this one, ma'am.
KAGAN: All right, we move on.
WARE: Notice she picked a biracial child, because her boyfriend was black. She knew what she was doing. She's not sick.
(LAUGHTER)
KAGAN: Well, she might be sick and smart all at the time. She was thinking.
Here's Toshal (ph).
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I want to know that -- if someone does something wrong in that plane, they are held out at the airports and there is all this profiling going on. If a child is getting kidnapped, why are we now letting these people out? These people should be profiled as well. These people need to be held indoors or a safe facility somewhere where they are not going to come and harm the children of the society.
(CROSSTALK)
HAGELIN: Crimes against children are the worst crimes in our society. And people who commit crimes against children and kidnappings need to be locked away for a very long time. And, at the same time, we need to use the body of medical evidence that we have discovered through the research on mental illness and find out why people do what they do so we can prevent future crimes as well.
KAGAN: All right, we haven't gotten any e-mail in all hour, so I just want to get this one down.
Danielle in New York says: "This woman is not fit to be a mother, but she did not deserve to go through the trauma of kidnapping. I question whether she should keep custody of her children" -- some harsh words for Marcella Anderson, the woman who turned over her child in the bus station.
We are going to continue "Free-For-All Friday." And get your warm thoughts together, because we have a lot of friends in Buffalo, New York who are having a difficult time. We are going snowbound after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KAGAN: All right, welcome back to TALKBACK LIVE.
Once again, we are sending warm thoughts and lots of shovels off to our friends in Buffalo, New York.
Let's bring in Mike Latella, a meteorologist for WGRZ, hopefully, all bundled up with -- there you are. Now, Mike, why aren't you wearing a hat?
MIKE LATELLA, WGRZ METEOROLOGIST: Oh, Daryn, it's not that bad out here. Come on, this is Buffalo.
KAGAN: Yes, we have heard. Tell us about all the white stuff behind you.
LATELLA: Well, what we are looking at now, Daryn, is a little bit of a break here in the downtown area. But we want to pan up and show you a very impressive cloud bank sitting just to the south of us.
Not many folks are too familiar with lake-effect snow. If you have ever been in a thunderstorm or anything -- and I think most folks have -- it's an intense band of rain. And if you can imagine that being snow and having it happen for four days straight, that's what we are talking about right down the road from here. And, as you can see, the only real vehicles on the road as we speak are plows and basically some snowmobiles, too.
KAGAN: OK, cut to the chase, Mike. How much snow are we really talking about? And folks who not used to Buffalo think, well, it's supposed to snow a lot there. So what's the problem?
LATELLA: It is, but it's an unprecedented amount of snow. We've never had such a snowy December. We have had now almost 80 inches of snow actually in the last four or five days. And that's about 75 percent of our total snowfall for the entire year in four days. So, even for Buffalo standards, this is quite a bit.
KAGAN: Wow. And I hear more on the way, a little break and then three days of snow.
LATELLA: It is true. And, in fact, we have the Olympic torch coming here for New Year's Eve.
KAGAN: Oh, it's going to freeze, Mike.
LATELLA: I think they are going to be riding snowmobiles with the torch.
KAGAN: Just to get through.
So, explain to us this weather pattern: a little break, and then when is it going to dump again?
LATELLA: It looks like actually the snow band has now moved down to what we call ski country, which is the southern three counties in our viewing area. And it's all dependent on the wind. It's almost like a garden hose. If you think of a garden hose, when you take the nozzle off and the garden hose just goes wild swinging all over the place, that is what has been happening with our lake-effect snow.
And it's a very good analogy of what lake effect is. It's almost like a garden hose aimed across 200 miles of wide-open water aimed right at Buffalo. Buffalo is in the worst place to have a city, where you have a lot of people living within these conditions. The lake snow is just continuing to pile in here. And once the wind shifts, like I said, right over my shoulder, somebody down south of us about 10 miles is getting snow at the rate of six inches per hour.
KAGAN: Really? Right now?
LATELLA: Right as we speak.
KAGAN: So, why aren't our cameras there, Mike?
(LAUGHTER)
LATELLA: Well, I have a show to put on in about an hour. I would love to get down there. But we've seen plenty of snow up here already.
KAGAN: I'm sure you have.
LATELLA: They can have it down there.
KAGAN: Help us with the travel arrangements here. We have some folks that are stuck in Buffalo -- well, not stuck. I mean, they have had a very nice time there, I'm sure. But they might like to get home. So what are the airports like? And what does it look like? LATELLA: Well, the airports, they have been closed. And I think they will remain closed for quite a while. But things have cleared out.
And if you look over my shoulder, we're seeing a lot of these guys here, these bulldozers, who are actually picking up the snow and putting them in back-loaders. And further back to my right, these two gentlemen here on these snowmobiles are actually heading down to the local fire houses, where they will be helping to deliver medicine to some of the folks who need it who can't get out of their houses.
KAGAN: Oh, that's good news.
Give us a perspective, for those of us who are not familiar with Buffalo. This is the main drag where you are standing, right? What should it really be looking like at this time of the day?
LATELLA: Daryn, this is equivalent of New York City's Fifth Avenue. And we are getting very close to rush hour now.
KAGAN: Rush hour with snow plows.
LATELLA: The only thing down out here is snow plows and snowmobiles. It's unbelievable.
KAGAN: And we gathered some love. We've got some love and some warm thoughts for you. We go to our audience.
Steve is from Rochester. So he can feel your pain.
LATELLA: Oh, yes.
STEVE. We moved from there in 1987. And that's exactly why we moved.
(LAUGHTER)
LATELLA: No joke, I actually moved to Florida for two years. I was in Rochester for four years. I moved to Florida for two. And I missed this. So I came back.
KAGAN: No. And how is your therapy going now, Mike?
(LAUGHTER)
LATELLA: Seriously, Daryn, this is like our Super Bowl. This is what meteorologists live for. And this is exciting. Although it is dangerous, it is, for a scientist, very exciting.
KAGAN: That is true. I can appreciate where you are coming from there. Well, like we said, we are showing you some love.
Marc Germain, I want to bring you in here, because you are Mr. KABC in Los Angeles.
(CROSSTALK) KAGAN: This like the Wilshire Boulevard, to put it in perspective for you, of Buffalo. Give Mike the weather report for L.A. today.
GERMAIN: We have zero snow. We won't have any snow in Los Angeles. And we invite Mike to come out and visit.
LATELLA: Well, I think I may -- after this week, I think we may all need a little break from the cold weather. One more thing. About four days ago, our seasonal snow total was 1.6 inches. And we also had our first ever zero-snow November.
KAGAN: Well, that's the thing.
LATELLA: So all this, it has really been a big slap in the face from Mother Nature, all in four days.
KAGAN: People were wishing for a little bit. And a little bit too much of their wish came true.
LATELLA: Everybody was wishing for a white Christmas. And about a week before Christmas, we were saying -- myself and I, our morning meteorologist, Pat Freedman (ph) -- we were all saying, we are going to get it. Didn't think it would be this bad, I have to admit. But Mother Nature certainly cooperated with our computer models.
KAGAN: Absolutely. Well, Mike Latella from Buffalo, thank you very much for bringing us that report. We hope things stay a little bit dry for you and safe. And, again, we send warm thoughts to you and all the folks in Buffalo.
LATELLA: Thanks, Daryn, very much for having me on.
KAGAN: Thanks very much. See, all the warm thoughts sending up to you in Buffalo.
LATELLA: We need it.
KAGAN: Real quick, we have to do something personal here and say goodbye to someone who is a favorite of us here at TALKBACK LIVE.
We got you, Susanne (ph). Susanne Minuet (ph), 12 years at CNN.
She's not used to being on camera. She's on her way out.
(APPLAUSE)
KAGAN: So, bye, Susanne. Thanks for all your service to CNN.
Thank you to all our guests, Kevin Miller here, also Marc Germain, Lincoln Ware, and Rebecca Hagelin. Thank you, everybody.
Happy New Year to all of you. Thanks for joining us for "Free- For-All Friday." I'm Daryn Kagan. We'll see you next week.
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