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American Morning

U.S., Afghan Bomb Victims Meet; Somalia Next?

Aired January 15, 2002 - 09:05   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: In a United Nations-sponsored trip, families of those killed on September 11 are meeting in Afghanistan with families of those killed by the U.S. bombing campaign -- a uniting of victims.

CNN's Michael Holmes is standing by in Kabul and joins us for more on this.

Welcome.

MICHAEL HOLMES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Paula. Greetings on chilly evening in Kabul.

After a heartwarming day, four Americans arrived at the Bagram Air Base, about 15 minutes from here, this afternoon, on a special mission: They are here to try to cultivate understanding, a special kind of understanding -- each of those four people lost a loved one on September 11. They are here to visit people who also lost loved ones, innocent civilians, innocent victims of the War on Terror at this end, in Afghanistan.

I think it is important, perhaps, just to pause for a moment and give you a bit of an idea of who we are talking about. Daryl Bodley (ph) -- he's 56 years old, he's a professor of music, he's from California; he lost his 20-year-old daughter, Diora (ph). She was on United Airlines Flight 93, which crashed in Pennsylvania.

Also here is Eva Rop (ph), a 28-year-old from Washington. She's actually the stepsister of Diora Bodley (ph).

Rita Lazar (ph), 70 years old, has made this long journey, and it is a long journey to get here. She's made the journey too. She lost her brother, Abe Zelminogis (ph). A lot of people might remember his story. He was on, I think, the 23rd or 21st floor of the World Trade Center, and he could have gotten out, but he didn't; he stayed with a paraplegic friend of his who could not get out, and he died there, in the World Trade Center. His sister is here.

Kelly Campbell, a 29-year-old from Oakland, California, whose brother-in-law, Craig Amundson, was killed in the Pentagon.

They have started off very quickly. They went from the air base. They went to visit a man that we spent a few hours with this afternoon. His name is Mohamed (ph). He's a father of four. His wife is pregnant with their fifth child. They had a nice house here in Kabul, a nice upper middle class house, living a nice life. A U.S. bomb crashed into that house on October 17, destroying it. His wife received brain damage from it. Fortunately, the kids were out the back; they were not hurt. And Mohamed (ph) was at work; he was not hurt.

I tell you, he's an extraordinary man; he forgives, he says it was an accident -- I understand that, it was fate. He is at this moment meeting with those four Americans. We will be bringing you a report on that later. An extraordinarily emotional day, and a unique visit by these four Americans, Paula.

ZAHN: How long do the four Americans plan to stay in the region?

HOLMES: They have got a busy time while they are here. They are here until Sunday our time.

Tomorrow, they will be meeting with a fellow called Abdul Mohamed (ph). He lost five members of his family in an accidental bombing, what the military likes to call collateral damage. They will meet with a man who lost his 5-year-old daughter. That will be emotional for Daryl Bodley, who told us today that he expected that to be emotional, having lost a daughter of his own.

The list goes. There will be more families. They will be visiting hospitals. They are going out to a demining site about an hour from here, and they will be looking around there, the demining program still continuing here, of course. And they will also be visiting children who were victims of cluster bombs. When those cluster bombs dropped, there were all those bomblets that didn't explode. Of course, a lot of children here picked them up, thinking they were toys, and have lost limbs and been injured otherwise. They will be visiting them.

There is even talk that if they have time, they might help clean up or perhaps start to help rebuild one Afghan family's home.

It is going to be a terrific visit -- Paula.

We look forward to seeing some of that video when the uniting of these families happens over next couple days.

Thank you, Michael Holmes. Appreciate that report.

It is 101 days now, and still no sign of Osama bin Laden. Is the U.S. military perhaps considering a change in strategy? The latest bombing of a large al Qaeda terrorist camp in eastern Afghanistan destroyed dozens of above-ground structures and closed the entrances dozens more caves. Now the Pentagon says it is time to look elsewhere for the bad guys.

Joining us now from Chicago is CNN military analyst Gen. David Grange, who is going to help us understand what that means.

Welcome back, General.

GEN. DAVID GRANGE, CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Good morning.

ZAHN: So where are we talking about looking for these bad guys? If it is not Afghanistan, where are we going?

GRANGE: Well, I think that the statement may mean within Afghanistan, itself, as well as globally. Within Afghanistan, it seems that we have been very sequential in the search and destruction of different complexes. Maybe putting more boots on the ground that will simultaneously look at several complexes, so you who don't a chance of the enemy going from one place to another or escaping. And I think part of the challenge is that we don't have that many people on the ground to do that right now.

ZAHN: When you talk about putting more boots on the ground, are you suggesting the United States increasing the size of its Special Force operation in the region?

GRANGE: Well, Paula, not just Special Forces, but including some of the 10th Mountain Division or 101st Airborne Division of Marines to assist Special Forces in search of more areas simultaneously, as well as airstrikes simultaneously throughout the area. Just to keep the enemy off balance, keep the pressure on, and, hopefully, keep some of them from escaping that may be moving from one place to another are into Pakistan itself.

ZAHN: Have you been given any indication from your Pentagon sources that there is talk of increasing forces on the ground there?

GRANGE: No, I have no Pentagon sources. This just my own personal evaluation of probably how maybe some of these people are getting away. I think we are still looking for six of the eight hardcore lieutenants of bin Laden. Then bin Laden and Omar himself. And just to keep the pressure on and hopefully keep them off balance, instead of being sequential.

ZAHN: But we know, General, you still friends in the Pentagon. You just don't want to talk about them this morning.

Let's move on to some of the criticism that is being waged against the United States. There was a report that surfaced in a French newspaper basically saying that the warlords are manipulating the U.S. military by telling them Osama bin Laden is in a region to get U.S. bombs to bomb their enemies when, in fact, they know he is not there. Can you shed some light on that? Do you think this is the case?

GRANGE: This is a country in which deals are made all the time. And some of the civilian casualties -- which incorrectly was called earlier collateral damage; collateral damage is destruction of facilities, not people -- and people is more personal than that, so that civilian casualties was a mistake if they were hit. And it would not surprise me that there is some conniving going on on targeting to get rid of other tribal leaders or families where feuds have happened in the past. It is very difficult to determine what intelligence is accurate and what is not. And even though it is vetted with several sources, this not an easy task. Sometimes you are criticized because you don't attack quick enough, and then you are criticized if you attack too quick and hit the wrong people. So it is a very difficult thing to sort out. It takes a lot of information, a lot of intelligence means, to do it.

ZAHN: We are going to be counting on your expertise to help us guide us through the next 100 days as we try analyze the next stage of military planning.

Gen. Grange, always good to see you. Thanks for dropping by this morning.

GRANGE: Thank you.

ZAHN: Jack.

JACK CAFFERTY, CNN ANCHOR: Thanks, Paula.

As we heard, the United States appears to be winding up its latest campaign in eastern part of Afghanistan, against suspected al Qaeda camps there. So what happens next? U.S. military planners busy considering the next target, or targets, possibly, in other parts of the world.

The site of U.S. warships and aircraft patrolling around Somalia, making people in that country uneasy. Somalians insist they are not harboring terrorists. They urge the united States not to bomb them, but suggest instead the United States help to rebuild that country.

CNN chief international correspondent Christiane Amanpour joins us by videophone from Mogadishu.

Christiane, what you can tell us?

CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Jack, Somalia is just the kind of lawless place with no central government that the U.S. and other governments say could potentially provide perfect protection for al Qaeda or other terrorist organizations. And to that end, as you have mentioned, U.S. warships are patrolling the extremely long Somali coast; there are also U.S. surveillance aircraft periodically in air over Somalia, along with French and British aircraft as well, trying to establish some kind of view of what may or may not be going on here.

Now, the Somalis themselves feel, they told us today when we were out in the streets, they feel that they are under some sort of what they call psychological warfare. They know -- they read in the newspapers, they listen to radio and television reports -- that at last the word is out that Somalia may be a next likely target.

From our vantage point and more and more interviews and talks with those international officials, and here in Somalia, it does not seem likely that U.S. bombing of Somalia will take place. At least not any time soon. But Somalis are telling us, at least those here in Mogadishu, that they feel very afraid. And what they are saying, extraordinarily, despite being responsible for one of the most devastating U.S. policy debacles, if you like, in modern times, that killing of 18 U.S. Special Forces back in 1993, Somalis in Mogadishu tell us that U.S. forces and/or others would be welcome back here in Mogadishu -- not to conduct bombing raids, but to help try to reconstruct the country.

It sounds incredible because this has been a traditional base of anti-American sentiment, but what we are being told by senior aid officials and others that is that Somalia -- quote -- "has matured over the years." They realize that they need reconciliation, and nothing yet has brought them that; they want an end to the endless civil war that has been going on for the last 11 years, to warlordism, to weapons rife on the streets, to poverty and joblessness. So they are hoping, paradoxically, that this crisis point brought on by September 11 may, as it did in Afghanistan, work in their benefit. That may seem a long shot from the U.S. point of view right now, but that is what many people here in Somalia are telling us -- Jack.

CAFFERTY: Christiane, thank you very much, Christiane Amanpour, reporting live from Mogadishu, Somalia, on a videophone.

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