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American Morning
Sound Off: Unlawful Deportation, Ashcroft, Libya
Aired January 23, 2002 - 08:45 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: Should detainees be deported to their country of origin without the proper legal process? That's just one of today's hot topics we're going to sound off about.
Joining us now to sound off, from Washington, Democratic political strategist Bob Beckel and former RNC Communications Director Cliff May.
Haven't seen the two of you together in awhile. Welcome back.
CLIFF MAY, FORMER RNC COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR: Good to see you.
BOB BECKEL, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: You too, Paula.
ZAHN: All right, Cliff, I'm going to start with you first. Oh that was a little redundant. I'm going to start with you. The Attorney General John Ashcroft said in the very beginning of this process most of the people being held are being held on questionable immigration status. Their cases will be evaluated case by case. Should they be forced to go to their original homes?
MAY: Some of them obviously should. We've got a problem here, Paula, we've got about eight million people who are in this country illegally. That's a city about the size of New York of illegal aliens. And tens of thousands of those people, tens of thousands, are from the same countries that are sponsoring acts of terrorism against us. So most of those people are probably good, honest people who want to do no harm. But out of tens of thousands, between 50,000 and 100,000, you could have hundreds or even a few thousand who are here as sleeper agents, who are here as terrorists, who are here to do damage to Americans and to American property, to kill people, to engage in terrorism.
We need to have immigration to this country. It needs to be legal immigration. People have to come here on visas. We have to know why they're here, what they're doing. They can't come here on a student visa, never attend school, go to flight school where they learn how to take off on airplanes but not land. We -- if we're going to defend this country, we have to defend our borders, and right now we're not doing that.
ZAHN: All right, we were just looking at pictures of the detainees in Cuba, which are not the folks who we're talking about right now. But, Bob, do you acknowledge this remote possibility that hundreds of these people being held could be in some way connected to a sleeper cell and why shouldn't they be deported to their place of origin?
BECKEL: Well, first of all, let me -- let me try to get calm here because it makes me so mad I can't stand it. This is the worst form of profiling. It's, again, Ashcroft stepping on the constitution he swore to uphold and defend. It's only convincing me every day that John Ashcroft is a threat to this country.
Now let me say this, the answer is absolutely no. There are processes in place. This man had final appeals. He didn't get those final appeals. Why, because of some rumor that maybe he was or maybe he wasn't or somebody with the same name, and now these families have been split up. You saw those little kids. I mean why is it that we -- we're so worried about somebody named Kahn and we don't stop -- you ought to look at Aer Lingus every Friday night coming into Boston with 400 tourists from Ireland and leaving with nobody on board.
MAY: Let me -- let me...
BECKEL: Or the Canadians who try to...
MAY: ... try to -- let me try to respond to that. One of the reasons is that al Qaeda is...
ZAHN: You want to respond to the John Ashcroft diatribe first?
MAY: Well, no.
ZAHN: I saw you kind of rolling your eyes when Bob went off on that tangent.
BECKEL: (UNINTELLIGIBLE).
MAY: Yes, because Bob Beckel just wants to demonize John Ashcroft, who is trying to do his job, which is to see to it that people who are here illegally and who may want to do us harm are at least questioned before they can do so.
ZAHN: God, now you got him going.
MAY: And there's nothing unconstitutional about saying that people who arrive in our country and live here, should be here on a legal basis. There is no Constitutional right for anybody from anywhere to live in America as long as he or she wants under any circumstances. We can have more legal immigrants if we have fewer illegal immigrants. And particularly people from countries sponsoring terrorism, we have to -- we have to know what they're -- what they're doing here and why they're here.
ZAHN: Okay, I'm going to move you two on to two other subjects because you obviously made it quick clear where you fall on that one.
What, Bob Beckel, do you make of the report in "USA Today" that the U.S. and -- U.S. and Libya are talking about taking Libya off the list of nations that sponsor terrorism in exchange for Qaddafi paying some $6 billion in compensation to those family members who lost folks in the downing of the Lockerbie flight?
BECKEL: Well I mean it's the worst kind of bribery that I've ever seen. I mean you know this reminds me of Iran-Contra where we traded arms for hostages. Well, Gaddafi is been -- we tried to bomb this guy. Let's not forget this. It was only about, you know 13, 14 years ago that Ronald Reagan sent planes to kill the guy. This guy has sponsored terrorism.
You talk about -- you send this poor guy back who's got two kids in this country and you're cutting a deal with one of the great monsters of the Middle East?
I mean the idea that this Bush administration would trade $6 billion and then they say, "Oh, but wait a minute, he helped us with intelligence on an al Qaeda -- al Qaeda sect in his -- in his country." Yes, they were trying to kill Qaddafi. Now I would provide intelligence too if somebody was trying to kill me. It's a sham. It's a fraud. It's disgraceful.
MAY: Well we have to do...
ZAHN: Cliff, is there any justification for this...
MAY: Yes, there is.
ZAHN: ... to happen?
MAY: Yes, we need to have a carrot as well as a stick approach, particularly in Islamic countries. If Qaddafi hasn't -- Qaddafi was bombed by Reagan and that seemed to have had an affect on his psyche. He has not, according to our intelligence, sponsored any anti-American terrorist activities in 10 years. He is evidently assisting us with intelligence. If he is reformed, if he has changed, we have to say that those who change, we will support. Are in the world.
What we have to say now is if you're supporting terrorism, you have a choice, change or be changed. But those regimes that actually do change, and I leave it up to our intelligence officials and I leave it up to the highest ranks of the Defense and State Department to say if he has, if there is change in these -- in these regimes, then we have to recognize that or there is no way they are going to behave the way we want them to. If you haven't sponsored terrorism...
ZAHN: Bob Beckel doesn't buy that one at all. He about fell off his chair when you talked about the carrot and stick approach.
MAY: If he hasn't sponsored terrorism in 10 years, if he's assisting us in the war on terrorism, if he's changed his mind about the Arab-Israeli conflict and he's not adding fuel to those fires, then sure, we can deal -- we should be able to deal with him.
Same I would say even for Sadat.
ZAHN: Those are some big ifs.
MAY: If Sadat... ZAHN: Those are some big ifs to contemplate.
MAY: If Sadat won't change, we have to change him. But if he will change, fine.
BECKEL: Well if he -- that's like...
ZAHN: All right, Bob Beckel,...
BECKEL: That's like saying...
ZAHN: We've got to leave it there. Hey, hold that thought, Bob, until the next time you come on, and I promise I'll start with you the next time.
BECKEL: Unbelievable.
ZAHN: Cliff May, good to see you with us again. Thank you, gentlemen.
MAY: Good to see you.
ZAHN: Always delighted to have you...
BECKEL: Bye.
ZAHN: ... sound off on a whole range of subjects.
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