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American Morning

John Walker Back in United States

Aired January 24, 2002 - 07:05   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: Up front this morning, John Walker back in the United States. Walker arrived last night at Dulles Airport. From there, the Taliban American was taken by helicopter to the detention center in northern Virginia, where he spent the night. In just a couple of hours, Walker has a date in U.S. District Court.

Jonathan Aiken is in Alexandria, Virginia this morning standing outside the courthouse. He joins us now with a preview of what we can expect -- good morning, Jonathan. What's going to happen first?

JONATHAN AIKEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, what's going to happen first is that John Walker is going to get settled into wherever they're holding him inside this courthouse, a holding cell. In the meantime, they're going to be preparing for a hearing that begins at nine o'clock this morning, a brief appearance. We'll get into the details of that in just a few moments. This will be Walker's first public appearance. His earlier appearance was a brief one as he was led shackled across an open field a few blocks from here and brought to the detention center under tight security last night. Walker was just shifted from that detention center back to the courthouse a few minutes ago, again, under tight security, which has been a hallmark of this whole operation since he arrived at Dulles Airport last night on board a military transport plane and then helicoptered the 25 miles or so to an open field about two blocks to my right and then he was whisked off to the detention center where he was kept overnight.

Walker's parents, Frank Lindh and Marilyn Walker, are here. They tried to see their son last night. As you saw just a few moments ago, were unable to do so. They were told he was in good health. They were accompanied by the attorney, the family attorney, James Brosnahan, who is already in a fighting mood.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JAMES BROSNAHAN: We're going to fight like hell to make sure that he gets fair treatment here. Unfortunately, I have to report to you that I have not seen him tonight, I have not seen my client. I've been asking since the 3rd of December to see him.

I might also mention to you that he has a right to be arraigned under a U.S. Supreme Court case called "Riverside" 48 hours after the charges are made. These charges were made last Tuesday. This is the following week. There's been no arraignment. (END VIDEO CLIP)

AIKEN: Just to recap those charges, Paula, Walker faces four of them, and he could get life in prison if he is convicted. The charges include conspiracy to kill U.S. nationals abroad. He faces two counts of providing material support or resources to terrorists and one count of engaging in transactions with the Taliban.

I wanted to mention, too, those pictures we saw of John Walker looking slightly different than he has to viewers who have seen him in those videos from Afghanistan. The hair is gone. The beard is gone, closely shaven and under tight security now.

This hearing that's going to be taking place in less than two hours is a very brief affair. It's called a first appearance. And in this appearance Walker will appear in court. The charges will be read to him. He'll be asked if he understands the charges. There will then be questions of legal representation and whether or not there will be bail or bond to be posted on Walker's behalf.

The legal team that was assembled by the Walker family and headed by James Brosnahan also includes several former federal prosecutors, including one, Paula, who used to work here in this building. And it's at this brief appearance that we're going to find out whether John Walker Lindh is ready to avail himself of the array of legal talent that his family is ready to provide for him -- Paula.

ZAHN: But he did indicate, did he not, in a letter that he was going to take the help of Mr. Brosnahan?

AIKEN: So it seemed, in a letter that Mr. Brosnahan mentioned last night in the statement to the press, and that was the first indication that we had that Walker was even aware that his family had retained counsel on his behalf. There had been some question yesterday, Paula, whether he knew that fact or whether or not he was going to allow, you know, Mr. Brosnahan and his team to accept him or would he accept a federal public defender issued by the court.

ZAHN: Jonathan, you mentioned a moment ago that some tight security is in place. Just how tight?

AIKEN: Well, security is tight around here. Compared to yesterday, when things were relatively loose, today it's very hard to find a parking spot around here and they've closed off several roads over to my left and behind me, behind the courthouse here.

The courthouse itself is under tighter protection. There are barricades set up and there's some wire that goes around in this area in the back. And over in the detention center a few blocks away, where he's being held, there's consistently tight security there. There's about 150 federal inmates, including about 13 who are facing charges, a variety of charges based on the war on terrorism. And among the 13 is Zacarias Moussaoui, the first person indicted in relation to the events of the 9-11 -- Paula.

ZAHN: OK, Jonathan Aiken, we'll be counting on you to guide us through this first appearance a little bit later there in U.S. District Court.

Thanks for that live report.

The question at this hour, will John Walker talk? With Walker now back on American soil and with the transfer of Afghan detainees to Camp X-Ray on hold for now, we're going to look at how interrogation works. What is the right approach?

Joining us now from Washington, former CIA Director James Woolsey. Good to see you again. Welcome.

JAMES WOOLSEY, FORMER CIA DIRECTOR: Good to be with you, Paula.

ZAHN: So what do you think is the best way to get information out of John Walker?

WOOLSEY: Well, I don't know how much more he has to give. He seems to have been something of a foot soldier. He has already given a statement and if that stands up as voluntary in light of the fact that he was given Miranda warnings, apparently, and -- or at least waived his right to counsel, that may be enough to convict him, at least of assisting the terrorists, not necessarily of conspiracy to kill Americans.

ZAHN: But that's a big if at this hour. According to ABC News, John Walker's attorneys will try to get any information that they got out of John Walker during the FBI interrogation thrown out.

WOOLSEY: Well, certainly they'll try. They'd be pretty poor attorneys if they didn't try, and they apparently are very skillful, with several former federal prosecutors among them. But also presumably the government knows how to get a conscious waiver of Miranda rights. Federal officials have been doing that for a long time.

I think also it's important that he spoke publicly on this, including on this network. I don't know whether what he said would be enough to convict him, but certainly he didn't have to do that.

ZAHN: That's interesting, because we spoke with the man who conducted that interview for CNN, a journalist named Richard Pelton. And he told us yesterday he thinks the government's going at this the wrong way, that he was able to get a lot more information out of John Walker than he believes the FBI has gotten out of him at this point.

Is there any truth to what he's saying?

WOOLSEY: I don't know, but skilled reporters can often get a great deal of information out of people. It may be true and maybe Mr. Walker now, in light of everything that's happened, has clammed up. But it's important to realize, I think, it looks as if he was a foot soldier -- for all the anger that a lot of us feel toward his allying himself with al Qaeda and the Taliban -- he may well not know a great deal.

ZAHN: Based on the charges that we just showed in Jonathan Aiken's report that John Walker faces, what is your guess? Will he be convicted of anything down the road?

WOOLSEY: Well, if the confession stands up and the waiver of Miranda rights, it looks pretty clear on the assisting terrorists charge. Conspiring to kill Americans may be harder to prove. Presumably they have some other evidence that has led them to make that charge and we just don't know what that is out here in the public yet.

ZAHN: Mr. Woolsey, I'd love to move on to the issue of the controversy surrounding the treatment of detainees at Guantanamo Bay. You, no doubt, have heard what some of our allies have said from Europe, very concerned about how the detainees are being treated. And yet we hear, have heard in reports from actual guards who are dealing with these detainees that they've been bitten. And how do you balance the pressure that you have on you from the international community and really what is at stake there on a day in and day out basis?

WOOLSEY: Well, I'm on Donald Rumsfeld's side on this. I think the criticism is, looks to me, from the foreign community, or some parts of it, as if it's ill informed or misinformed. There was this picture of the men kneeling and in shackles when they were first being put into the cells. But some of those types of precautions appear to have been necessary in light of exactly what you said. Some of them have attacked some of the guards.

And, indeed, some of these same people were ones who, in the prison in Mazir-i-Sharif, revolted and killed an American CIA officer, Mike Spann.

So some of these people really have to be dealt with in such a fashion that they're shackled and the like when they're out.

Now, what's important, really, here is whether they should be regarded as prisoners of war, in which case there are a number of restrictions that apply. They have to give only name, rank and serial number and the like. But I think the side of the argument the U.S. government is making really is far more credible here. There are four tests as to whether or not someone is an unlawful belligerent under the Geneva Convention or whether they are a prisoner of war. And clearly these people don't meet three of those tests.

They don't wear uniforms and carry flags. They aren't part of a structured hierarchy. They're not obeying the law of war. The only test they meet is apparently they carry their weapons externally rather than hiding them.

But these are, I think, much more like barberry pirates that we fought two centuries ago or terrorists that we have taken into custody in other circumstances. They certainly don't look to, I think, most objective observers as if they're part of some organized fighting force and, indeed, the ones that were, had allegiance to al Qaeda as distinct from the Taliban didn't have allegiance to a state at all. It was clearly to a terrorist organization.

ZAHN: And yet we have to acknowledge this morning that no official determination has been made of their status. So in the meantime...

WOOLSEY: Right.

ZAHN: ... what do you do to get information out of these guys...

WOOLSEY: Well...

ZAHN: ... at a time when some of the guards feel threatened and you've got this pressure on you to make sure you abide by the Geneva Convention, even though they haven't been officially declared prisoners of war and may not be?

WOOLSEY: Well, there will be some sort of hearing in which the decision will be made and some of them might end up being called prisoners of war. But I doubt if most of them will be. And as far as interrogation is concerned, obviously you can't use physical coercion and I don't think the United States military or the questioners will. Certainly you can persistently ask questions. And I think that some of them, doubtless, given the predicament they're in, may well start to cooperate and we hope it's some of the ones who were above the level of foot soldiers and actually knew something.

ZAHN: I hope you're right.

WOOLSEY: I do, too.

ZAHN: James Woolsey, always good to have you on A.M.

WOOLSEY: Good to be with you.

ZAHN: Delighted that you dropped by.

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