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American Morning

Interview of Bob Martinez, Edward Harrison

Aired January 30, 2002 - 09:19   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
JACK CAFFERTY, CNN FINANCIAL ANCHOR: The big question this hour, do criminals get better medical care than taxpayers? A life-saving heart transplant for a California felon doing his second stint in state prison for robbery is fueling a debate over costly medical care for an aging prison population. The operation took place earlier this month at the prestigious Stanford University Medical Center.

How did a convicted felon doing a second prison sentence for robbery take precedence over 4,000 non-criminal taxpayers in the country who are waiting for a donor heart, and should the taxpayers pay for what could total a million dollar medical bill by the time you figure out in the cost of medication and after care.

Joining us now from Sacramento, Bob Martinez with the California Department of Corrections. And from Chicago, Edward Harrison, the president of the National Commission of Correctional Health Care.

Gentlemen, nice to have you with us. Mr. Martinez, let me start with you. How is this even possible?

BOB MARTINEZ, CALIFORNIA DEPARTMENT OF CORRECTIONS: Well, it's possible because I think few people are aware in this country that just because someone in an inmate, someone is incarcerated, doesn't mean he doesn't have the right to medical care. In fact, the Supreme Court back in 1976 determined, I guess, to the surprise of a lot of people, that in fact, an inmate has a Constitutional right to medical care. And to deny an individual --

CAFFERTY: I don't think anybody is arguing the fact that people have a right to medical care, but the question that occurs to me is that -- and I mentioned in the lead-in, there are 4,000 people in this country waiting for a heart transplant. A donor heart becomes available, and it goes to a guy doing 16 years in state prison for robbery. I mean, is there something wrong with this picture, or is it just me?

MARTINEZ: Well, I think that's something that is a genuine and a legitimate question for the Biomedical Ethics Committee at Stanford Medical, but it is the organ center that makes that determination. We're bound by law to do whatever is necessary to maintain the medical health of an individual. We don't make that decision. We just carry out the law.

CAFFERTY: So, in effect, your hands are tied, is what you are telling me.

MARTINEZ: That's correct.

CAFFERTY: Mr. Harrison, weigh in on this. This thing, on the surface at least to me and to a lot of people here on "American Morning," when this thing came up yesterday, is one of these stories that defies the laws of gravity. Like, how could this be?

EDWARD HARRISON, NATIONAL COMMISSION OF CORRECTIONAL HEALTH CARE: Well, many Americans forget about the number of people we incarcerate. We release from jails and prisons each year 11 and a half, close to 12 million people. So, we're talking about a large number of folks passing through our correctional system, and health care among that group of people -- group that large, are going to find a variety of cases.

I think the representative from the California Department of Corrections is exactly right. There's an obligation to provide necessary care, not elective surgeries or cosmetic surgery, that type of thing. And as these cases come up, usually there's a checklist of criteria that you go to evaluate, to determine which are the best candidates for these procedures.

Stanford, I'm sure, had certain criteria, medical criteria, social criteria that they used, and they determined, out of the patients that they had to choose from, that this was the best candidate. So, it really is sort of the ongoing practice of care in corrections, although I must say transplants -- it's extremely rare for an inmate to get one. I'm not aware of any other case, but it sounds like the procedure that California followed is the proper one.

CAFFERTY: Would we be required -- "we" being the public in this country, would we have to do a transplant on an inmate, for example, who is on death row?

HARRISON: Well, again, the prison and the transplant center will develop its criteria. There's a variety of issues at hand here. One is the length of incarceration or the likelihood of patient success.

I understand that Stanford does about 40 to 50 heart transplants a year, and if there's a candidate that's brought to them and it's appropriate for the California Department of Corrections to have checklist of procedures to determine which candidates go -- not only for heart transplants, but for other procedures as well -- but once that happens, and Stanford would make its own judgment. You really should talk to the folks at Stanford about the ethics and the decision making process.

CAFFERTY: I read a letter earlier on "American Morning" from a fellow out in Kansas who lost his job, went to get his car fixed, fell down, tore the cartilage up in his knee. He has no health insurance, it is going to cost him $2000 to get his knee operated on, to get it fixed. He can't afford to get his knee repaired.

I guess the philosophical debate comes down to, here we got a guy who was working, paying taxes, can't get a $2000 knee operation versus a convicted felon who can get a million dollar heart transplant while he sits in some prison in California, and I don't guess we are going to resolve it here, but I appreciate the fact that the two of you were kind enough to come on the program and talk to me a little bit about it. Thank you very much.

MARTINEZ: Thank you.

CAFFERTY: Bob Martinez, the California Department of Corrections, and Edward Harrison, the National Commission on Correctional Health Care, joining us from Chicago.

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