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CNN Talkback Live
Free-for-All Friday
Aired February 01, 2002 - 15:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
KARYN BRYANT, HOST: It's free-for-all Friday. Today, unborn child or fetus? Does it matter what you call it?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This policy reveals this administration's real interest in having government make abortions illegal.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BRYANT: Also, a convicted felon gets a heart transplant at your expense.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They determined out of the patients that they had to choose from that this was the best candidate.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BRYANT: Is an inmate ever the best choice?
And looking for a state for the artist.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LENNOX LEWIS, HEAVYWEIGHT CHAMPION: Lennox Lewis is a fighter. Mike Tyson is a biter.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BRYANT: And how will you spend Super Bowl Sunday?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We got hot chicks in bikinis doing gross stuff.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BRYANT: Is it going to be play time or playmates?
Hello and welcome to TALKBACK LIVE. I'm Karyn Bryant. And we will begin our free-for-all in just a minute. First, there are conflicting reports about the fate of "Wall Street Journal" reporter Daniel Pearl who was kidnapped in Pakistan. An e-mail went out to news organizations today claiming he had been killed. CNN State Department correspondent Andrea Koppel has the latest -- Andrea.
ANDREA KOPPEL, CNN STATE DEPARTMENT CORRESPONDENT: Good afternoon, Karyn. We are all in a bit of a holding pattern right now, sort of waiting on pins and needles to see what U.S. officials are able to determine about this e-mail. I have spoken with State Department officials here, and my colleague over at the White House, Kelly Wallace, has spoken with folks over there, and they say they have the e-mail, they have seen it, but they have not been able to draw any kind of conclusion from it. Therefore, they can't authenticate it. They don't know if it's the real thing.
This would be the fourth e-mail in a week from the group alleging to have 38-year-old Daniel Pearl, the "Wall Street Journal" reporter in their captivity, somewhere, they believe, in Pakistan. Pearl was reporting in Karachi, Pakistan when he was abducted last week.
As things stand right now, the kidnappers have only communicated through the Western media by sending e-mails. Two of the e-mails had pictures of Pearl, but the one that went out yesterday and the one that came today did not have pictures. So right now we are sort of stuck waiting. U.S. officials obviously, Karyn, want to be very careful before they come forward with any kind of final information as to whether or not they think this is the real thing.
BRYANT: What about the group, Andrea, that demanded the ransom money? What do we know about them?
KOPPEL: Well, this is a separate case. Our understanding, according to Karachi police in Pakistan, is that there were some phone calls that came in today around the same time that the e-mail went out to Western news organizations, and the caller claimed to be yet another group that has Daniel Pearl in custody. And they said that they wanted a couple of million dollars in ransom, and they put a deadline of 36 hours out there for U.S. officials to meet. But again, we don't know if that's the real thing either.
BRYANT: All right, Andrea, thank you for your report.
And it's time now to start the free-for-all Friday here on TALKBACK LIVE. We have got some radio show hosts to join us today, and let's get and introduce them to you. In Miami, we have got Joyce Kaufman of WFTL Radio. We have got Dom Giordano, he's the host on Philadelphia's Talk Radio 1210, and he's going to be joining us in just a second. We also do have Monique Caradine, she's the host of "Mo' in the Midday" on WVON Radio in Chicago. And in Boston, I'm from Boston, Paul, yeah, it's wicked good, it's Paul Lyle, president of the Talk America Radio Network and a national -- sorry, the director of the National Association of Radio Talk Show Hosts.
Thank you all for joining us. And Paul, I may as well first start with you. What do you think about this whole situation with Daniel Pearl? Do we, you know, believe that the White House should take some action now?
PAUL LYLE, TALK AMERICA NETWORK: Well, I don't know if the White House will be able to take any action. Unfortunately, reporters and correspondents have always been in the front lines, all combatant situations since the beginning of recorded history. And I'll tell you something, Dan Pearl is a heroic individual for going over there, but that's his job. There's risk is involved in it, and I hope he's certainly not a victim.
However, if he is, it will not deter other reporters from going over there. And should the government get involved? Only to the extent that if we find the perpetrators of this, that they are brought to justice.
BRYANT: Joyce, what do you think? Do you think that all of our journalists should leave the country, leave Pakistan?
JOYCE KAUFMAN, WFTL RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: Absolutely not. We are in the business of reporting news, so we have to go where the news is. But I will tell you, Daniel Pearl, who has been accused of being a spy for Israel by the people who kidnapped him, his best hope is that the Mossad took that seriously. I think they are the ones with the best chance of rescuing him. If I had had to pin my hopes on American intelligence since September 11, my money is on the Mossad.
BRYANT: Monique, what do you think this says about Pakistan and the state of control over there right now?
MONIQUE CARADINE, WVON RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: I think it sends a very negative message, but I'm just hoping, I'm trying to remain optimistic, Karyn, that Mr. Pearl is still alive and well. I think that what we need to do is look at our journalists as individuals who are really putting their lives on the line to tell us these stories. We do need them there. I agree with that.
But I think that whenever you put yourself in a situation when you go in an environment where tensions are high, then these kinds of things are expected to happen. But there's some relationships that we need to begin to mend, not just with folks in Pakistan but all across the world as well.
BRYANT: Well, do you think, though, that the Pakistani government now has to mend relations with us? I mean, do they owe us some explanation, some help here?
CARADINE: Well, it's really a two-way street. I mean, the impression that I have received, at least to some degree, is that the Pakistani government is trying to see this thing through to a pretty decent ending. And so, I think there's still room for improvement, though, on both sides.
BRYANT: OK, Paul or Joyce, you guys you have anything else to add about this? Maybe, you know, should we really get in there and get serious with Pakistan, and make some demands for them to help us?
LYLE: Well, I would love us to go in there and make demands on Pakistan, but it doesn't work that way. As Monique said, I mean, this is a two-way street. There are third world countries out there, and these regimes only stay in power as long as they have the military on their side, or until the next terrorist group comes in and tries to disassemble any semblance of government that they have. So we have to walk on egg shells with this one.
BRYANT: Well, we do have Dom joining us now. Dom, what are your reactions to this? What do you think we should do?
DOM GIORDANO, TALK RADIO 1210 SHOW HOST: Well, I pretty much agree, I have a consensus on this, that I think it's very difficult to go into Pakistan and retaliate and do too much else. And I think what the U.S. government is doing right now is the policy that we are not going to negotiate with these folks, and we are waiting to see what the outcome of this is.
BRYANT: All right, Dom, thanks for joining us.
And we are going to move on now. That story, obviously, is going to take some more time to develop, but our next story is developing, has been developing for a little while now. We're talking about Enron and the White House. Now today, President Bush unveiled his plan to protect 401(k)s in the wake of Enron's collapse. Now, is the plan really about pensions, or is it more about politics and public relations? Let's find out more about that from CNN White House correspondent Kelly Wallace.
Kelly, first and foremost, can you lay out what the 401(k)s plans are from Bush?
KELLY WALLACE, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Absolutely, Karyn. You know, the president going to West Virginia today to the Republican retreat to unveil his ideas. Again, the administration saying it wants to do whatever it can to prevent what happened in the case of Enron from ever happening again.
Let's show you a graphic, a little bit of the president's ideas. Number one, he wants to give Americans a greater freedom to diversify. Americans would be able to diversify out of company stock and go ahead and invest in other stocks after three years. The president is also calling for a parity between the executives and the rank-and-file workers. This means during the so-called blackout periods, when employees are prevented from moving their stocks around in the 401(k)s, that executives would also be barred from doing the same thing.
Number three, he wants to give better information about pensions, wants more investment advice to go to the employees so they can do a better job managing their 401(k)s and pension plans. And finally, again, expanding access to investment advice, allowing employees to get advice from outside company people, other investment people out around the country, to, again, help Americans manage their 401(k)s and their pension plans.
And as you said, certainly policy, probably some politics and PR as well. You know this administration has been trying to react very quickly, to make the case that this president and Republicans are trying to protect employees, and that they're not too closely aligned with big business and corporations. And so, it was interesting that the president chose the Republican retreat in West Virginia to unveil this proposal. Again, he wants to make the case that this president and Republicans are working for those rank-and-file workers -- Karyn.
BRYANT: Well, would this have helped the Enron employees if this had been initiated a little sooner?
WALLACE: That's a very good question. We are relying on some great work by our colleague Brooks Jackson. His analysis really is, probably not. And here's why.
Number one, Enron employees really had control over 89 percent of the stock; 11 percent they could not sell until the age of 55, but they had control of 89 percent of their stock during all periods of time, except for that blackout period in the fall. And also, according to CNN's own reporting, there really were no Enron executives who were moving stocks around during that blackout period. Obviously, there's a question if executives were selling stocks earlier in the year. But during this blackouts period in the fall, apparently Enron executives were not moving their stocks around.
That being said, though, certainly getting more investment advice to employees, certainly allowing them to reach to talk to outside counselors, that could help. There is some talk, though, on Capitol Hill about going even further, though, Karyn. Some say the real goal here is try to put caps on how much stock, how much an employee can hold of that company stock in their 401(k) to prevent an employee from really losing their life savings if that company goes under.
So there's a proposal to sort of cap that amount to 20 percent or 10 percent. Also, some proposals to reduce the incentives, tax incentives for companies to give company stock to their employees, as opposed to cash, which employees could invest in other stocks. So pretty complicated stuff, but a bit of a debate going on here.
BRYANT: Wow! You just wore me out, Kelly.
WALLACE: I wore myself out.
BRYANT: All right, well, thanks for joining us.
WALLACE: Sure.
BRYANT: All right.
Now, Dom, I want to start with you. What do you think? Do you think that the government already has too much control about what people do with their own money?
GIORDANO: Well, absolutely, Karyn. I think what the Democrats want to do, my sister state, the former head of Goldman Sachs, Jon Corzine, he wants to make it, I believe, 20 percent that you can invest in a company like CNN. I'm an employee of Viacom by extension. I believe in the company. I'd like to invest whatever I want in this. And I think the president did a good thing today, as your reporter just said, I don't know that the Enron scandal is just about this. I think it ought to be called the Enron-Anderson scandal because of the accounting firm and their involvement.
And these reforms today, though, I think are a good thing. We don't want to restrict freedom. Americans know how to invest. By the way, the Democrats, I think, Karyn, are trying to use this as a wedge ultimately to defeat the idea of privatizing Social Security. That's what's behind some of this.
BRYANT: All right, well, we'll get into that later. Joyce, though, you believe that Americans -- we couldn't do better with our own money. Is that true?
KAUFMAN: Well, I think we have proven that there are a lot of Americans out there who still don't understand the stock market. They look at it much the same way they look at Las Vegas. You know, nobody was complaining at Enron or Global Crossing or at K-Mart when the stock was going up. They couldn't own enough of the stock. But then when reality set in and people realized that stocks do go down, and their portfolio were decimated, they all acted surprised.
Now, the president is saying, well, get some outside help, and let these people have an education. My goodness, you have multiple television stations that run wall to wall financial programming, radio programs, all of the public broadcasting...
BRYANT: Well, it's a lot to process. You know, there's a lot going on there.
KAUFMAN: It's your money. If you care about it, then obviously you should educate yourself. I have a 401(k), and it offers me a lot of diversification. So did the Enron 401(k). The only thing was, people got greedy. And we have a right to be greedy in this country.
BRYANT: All right, Monique, I saw you shaking your head there. What are your thoughts on this?
CARADINE: Well, Karyn, I first want to answer your earlier question: Is it politics or public relations with the proposal being unveiled and everything. And I think it's definitely public relations. I do appreciate the expediency with which this proposal was offered, but I have to question the sincerity of it. It sounds all nice and warm and fuzzy and everything, what the correspondent said earlier, and that's all well and good.
But let's get to the root of this. If anything, I want to see President Push unveil a proposal that sends a clear and unmistakable message to unscrupulous corporate executives so that they can know that this should never happen again. It is they that need to be held responsible for this, because I don't know where everybody is still afraid to call this a crime, but that's exactly what it was. I know there are investigations going on. But this was a crime. And those people, once it's found out what exactly happened, need to be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. BRYANT: All right. Well, I love to see your passion about this, Monique. It's great. I'm sorry to say, we have to break away from this topic for just a second. We have to check in with Daryn Kagan. She has got an update on some news -- Daryn.
(INTERRUPTED FOR CNN COVERAGE OF BREAKING NEWS)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm David Brentford (ph) from Boston University. I don't think President Bush is trying to help pregnant women, I think he's just trying to outlaw abortion.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BRYANT: Welcome back to TALKBACK LIVE. Here's a loaded question: What happens if you call a fetus an unborn child? Now the White House says it will allow the fetus to qualify for government- funded health insurance designed for low-income children. It's urging states to reclassify fetuses as unborn children so that poor pregnant women can qualify for prenatal care under the children's health insurance programs, also known as CHIP. But abortion rights activists say that it's a thinly disguised attempt to make abortions illegal.
Paul in Boston, I'm going to start with you. What do you think of this? Is it shady? Are they really just trying to make an end run around Roe v. Wade?
LYLE: Well, of course they are trying to make an end run around Roe v. Wade. I mean, if you are going to get health insurance benefits to poor women, then you just give it to poor women, whether they're pregnant or they are not pregnant. I have no idea why they have tried to introduce this language in there, other than the fact that the right to life groups are putting a lot of pressure on President Bush and it was part of his initial platform.
But I still believe in a woman's right to choose, end of story. So this is all just -- well, it's political posturing. That's all it is.
BRYANT: Well, we've got a couple of women. Monique, what do you think?
(CROSSTALK)
CARADINE: ... when you see situations like this, where the status of a fetus is elevated above that of the woman that's carrying that fetus. I agree. I think that this is indeed an attempt to bring about more anti-choice rhetoric. And if you are going to extend benefits, you don't have to reclassify the status of a fetus, just extend the benefits.
GIORDANO: Well, Monique, I have to interrupt and ask you: How is this challenging the right of a woman, putting a fetus over a woman? That's not true. It's just saying that this is a person along with a woman. It's not -- this is rhetoric that's way out of bounds for a simple change in a federal regulation.
CARADINE: It's simply a smoke screen, and I don't think that anyone should fall for this. This is clearly a smoke screen. Again, if you want to extend benefits, you can do that without reclassifying a fetus as an unborn child, or whatever they want to do. Just simply extend the benefits.
GIORDANO: It's not an extremist position, though, I don't think. I think it's the national women's groups that have been extremist, Monique. They are saying that this is un-American what the president has done. I don't get it.
BRYANT: Joyce, what do you think?
KAUFMAN: Well, I think that first of all, how does this unborn child get to the doctor's office? Obviously, this -- what are we now considering the mother a vessel, a taxi cab that escorts the unborn child to the doctor's office? The mother's health is what will determine the health of the child. Give health care to poor women in America, not just because they are pregnant but because it's the right thing to do, and stop pretending that you are taking care of children when what you are trying to do is undermine the right to choice.
This is not thinly disguised. This is an overt attempt to take away the right for American women to have an abortion. It's that simple.
(CROSSTALK)
GIORDANO: What has changed today when this regulation goes in? There's nothing that will be changed. Abortion still will be widespread, even partial birth abortion.
(CROSSTALK)
KAUFMAN: What we are saying is that it's the beginning of a slide down a slippery slope.
CARADINE: Exactly.
GIORDANO: Well...
KAUFMAN: We are saying that as soon as you qualify this as a human being, then it's going to be murder if you have an abortion as of the second day it's conceived. And that's the problem people are having.
(CROSSTALK)
GIORDANO: The answer is, I often have people to my right, the NRA, they say the same thing about slippery slopes, and I think they are kind of wacky about it. And I think the extremism of the arguments today show how tenuous the arguments are around us. KAUFMAN: You know, this is simply tit for tat. There are a lot of people out there on the right who are very upset with the stem cell research decision. So now the administration has to do something to appease them. And this is exactly what appeases them. It's an absolute victory for the anti-abortion people in this country, and you know it is.
BRYANT: Paul, a question for you, Paul. If this happens now, will contraception be considered now child endangerment? I mean...
LYLE: Well, there you go. There's an interesting question. Will that be considered child endangerment? It could well be, and I'm sure there will be test cases. The real problem is here, the health care system in this country is broken, and we've got to fix it. We've got to extend health care benefits to women, to children, to people who fall below the poverty line. I mean, we have got selective medicine that's being practiced now. We've got HMOs that are out of control, managed health care. The system stinks.
CARADINE: This whole conversation scares the heck out of me.
BRYANT: Well, you know what, this whole conversation, unfortunately we can't even wrap the subject up. This is something people are going to be talking about all weekend long about.
So we're going to move on to something else on our free-for-all Friday. We're out of time on that. We've got lot to cover, though, so watch this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BRYANT: Welcome back to TALKBACK LIVE. I'm Karyn Bryant with you.
And a lot of folks on organ waiting list might wonder why a precious heart went to a convicted felon in California. Now, you can bet there are a lot of taxpayers wondering why they're paying up to $1 million for the inmate's medical care.
Now, he was near death and considered the best candidate by transplant doctors at Sanford University Medical Center. They say inmates are treated like any other patient. This guy has got a $1 million heart.
Joyce is really not pleased at this. Joyce, should the prisoner have gotten the heart?
KAUFMAN: Well, you know, what is really amazing about this is, it follows on the heels of a discussion where we needed to change the language so that a pregnant woman could receive health care and the government would pay for it. But the government has no compunction about paying for a $1 million heart transplant for a convicted felon. Now, where are our priorities in this country?
BRYANT: Well, we paid for it. It was taxpayer money that paid for the heart. KAUFMAN: Well, it would be taxpayer money that would pay for the prenatal care of these unborn children/fetuses. And if you ask any American who better served, I think they would all agree that the pregnant woman deserves the first chance at the pool of money.
And, in terms of organs and people waiting for organs, I know people now who are on lists and have been on lists for years. I have known people who died. And I seriously resent giving an organ to a prisoner, unless there was absolutely no other living human being that could have taken that organ.
BRYANT: I hear one of you guys wants to jump in.
GIORDANO: I agree with Joyce.
And I think it's not so much the money. It's the precious nature of a small amount of organs, and the heart in this case. And I think this has happened before. The proposal I would have, Karyn, is that people should have the right to say no. I don't want to give my heart to a guy who is in a prison in California.
BRYANT: Yes, but, Dom, now you are saying this guy deserves it more than this person. We're talking about morality.
GIORDANO: That's right.
BRYANT: Are people in a position to judge morality
(CROSSTALK)
GIORDANO: I think, if it's my organ, I think that I am. And already I think
(CROSSTALK)
BRYANT: But you are dead, because that is how you could give the organ up.
GIORDANO: I think in advance we could. Certainly we could.
CARADINE: I disagree with both
(CROSSTALK)
GIORDANO: You're not getting my heart.
CARADINE: Karyn, $1 million, give me a break. That's a drop in the bucket when you look at the entire state. One million dollars is pennies. But I think it's important that we look at situations like these on a case-by-case basis.
Here's a guy who is 31 years old in prison for robbery. We are not talking Charles Manson here. So the bottom line is that he's a human being. And if he's the best candidate for this heart under these circumstances, then absolutely he should get it.
BRYANT: All right, we have got a caller on the line.
(CROSSTALK)
BRYANT: Hold on. We're going to take a call right now from South Carolina.
Jill, go ahead -- Gerald.
CALLER: Yes, I agree with your guest. I just don't believe that many law-abiding heart transplant patients that we have got, that we need to be spending the money on convicted felons. I feel for these guys. I do. I feel for them, but I still believe it should go to the people that are law abiding, the taxpayers.
BRYANT: Thank you for your call, Gerald.
Paul, though, part of that question is, though, that he's in prison. He's a ward of the state now and we have to look out for him because he can't go out and earn a living to pay for his medical care.
KAUFMAN: That's his fault. He could have been a productive member of society. He chose to be a felon and he got convicted.
GIORDANO: He's got his own money, let him pay for it.
LYLE: There you go.
BRYANT: Moakley, what do you think of that?
CARADINE: It's absurd. That's absurd.
Again, I still say that this man eventually has an opportunity to reenter into society. And, as a justice system, the key word is justice. It is our duty to administer punishment where necessary. But it is not up to us to determine whether or not a person should live or die. Again, he's a human being.
LYLE: Well, we do it all the time. It's called the death penalty.
CARADINE: I don't agree with the death penalty.
GIORDANO: Monique, this guy is a two-time loser, though. I did some research on him. He got out of jail once for burglary. Eight months later, he was back in on the robbery charge. So this isn't the first offense with this guy.
CARADINE: That matters not. He's still a human being.
GIORDANO: Oh, sure it does.
(CROSSTALK)
CARADINE: If look at the bigger picture at why he resorted to those actions, maybe that could
(CROSSTALK)
GIORDANO: He wanted to rob to get a heart. He was going to rob to get his heart.
BRYANT: Well, I tell you, yes, maybe he stole something to get to jail to get the health care. But we're not going to go there right now.
We're going to Dan here in the audience -- Dan.
DAN: Yes, I agree it might not be the fairest way to determine who gets the hearts. Even though he is jail, he's still considered a human being. I think, if you just let him stay in his jail cell and intentionally know he has heart problems, I think that's cruel and unusual punishment to let him die in his jail cell like that.
BRYANT: Well, cruel and unusual punishment is in fact a criteria -- it was the decision made by the Supreme Court. And they said that if you don't give them care, it is cruel and unusual.
Monique, Joyce, guys, Paul, you want to comment on that? Is it cruel and unusual punishment
(CROSSTALK)
LYLE: How much health care do you give him?
KAUFMAN: Why don't we give him a mechanical heart and do some of these experimental procedures that are being done all over the world now? I would rather use him as a guinea pig.
CARADINE: Treat him as a guinea pig? Absolutely not.
(CROSSTALK)
KAUFMAN: Somebody has to do the research.
BRYANT: Well, that's amazing. I know some people who would agree with you right here in the audience. And they believe that the patient -- the prisoners should be
(CROSSTALK)
LYLE: Let him take out a loan. If any bank will give him a loan, fine. But the taxpayers aren't going to co-sign for it.
BRYANT: All right, thank you.
That is it for this subject, again another hot one. And it is "Free-For-All Friday," so we have to move on.
Our next topic could leave you a little bit punchy. Still ahead on TALKBACK LIVE's "Free-For-All Friday": Tyson-Lewis, is this one bout destined to stay outside the ring?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) LEWIS: He attacked me at a press conference the other day. And then he takes a bite out of my leg. So you have to ask him if he wants to fight me. It doesn't seem like he wants to fight me at the moment, so he's doing everything to stop it.
MIKE TYSON, PROFESSIONAL BOXER: I'm going to fight him every time I see him in the streets.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BRYANT: And where is that going to be?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm Josh Schneider (ph) from Boston University. And I think that Mike Tyson should be banned from boxing and shipped to the WWF.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BRYANT: All right.
We have been talking about the Tyson-Lewis nonfight for a couple weeks now. Mike Tyson didn't get the OK to fight in Las Vegas this week, so now the main event is looking for a place to happen.
Dom, should this fight take place?
GIORDANO: Oh, absolutely. I like the guy's line that was on just before me, your person in the audience: the WWF with Mike Tyson. But Mike Tyson has done this, Karyn, for years. And the funniest thing is that Las Vegas suddenly has realized that, Las Vegas, of all places, trying to ban him. He is a guy who is out of control. But that's what boxing is about. And I think the fight will take place somewhere.
CARADINE: That's what boxing is about?
GIORDANO: Oh, absolutely. That's what boxing is about.
(CROSSTALK)
CARADINE: Boxing requires skill. Boxing requires technique. Boxing does not require some maniacal individual that breaks all the rules that's obviously on the edge and could possibly kill somebody. That is not what boxing
(CROSSTALK)
GIORDANO: I don't know how many fights you have been at ringside, but that is what it's about, at the heavyweight level, particularly. That is what these guys do to each other.
LYLE: It's about two people trying to kill each other in the ring.
CARADINE: I haven't been to a single boxing match and don't care to attend one.
GIORDANO: OK.
CARADINE: But I do know this. Mike Tyson has, no pun intended, put a black eye on the sport of boxing because he does tend to break all the rules. And if he doesn't get out fast, boxing is going to be worse off than it already was.
GIORDANO: Monique, Don King is the biggest promoter in boxing. And he's a convicted killer. He's a convicted killer. So, come on.
(CROSSTALK)
CARADINE: What does that have to do with it? He's not in the ring either.
KAUFMAN: That's a completely different matter.
GIORDANO: It's that type of sport, though. He controls the money of that sport. He is one of the principal figures.
CARADINE: I'm talking about the technique. I'm talking about what happens when you are in the ring. And Mike Tyson has proven time and time again that he is a man on the edge. Yes, he's always done this, but he's also gotten progressively worse. So they better catch him and ring him in before it's too late.
KAUFMAN: This man needs to be sent to a psychiatrist. There's no doubt about it. And I'll tell you something else.
GIORDANO: I would love to be that psychiatrist.
LYLE: Anybody who gets in the ring ought to be sent to a psychiatrist.
(CROSSTALK)
KAUFMAN: The biggest shame would be that if New York or Los Angeles or any other city went ahead and allowed this guy to box there, I think that would be extremely embarrassing for those two cities, because when Vegas stands on principle over profit, that's a pretty heavy statement.
(CROSSTALK)
BRYANT: I'm going to break in here for a second. We've got a caller on the phone actually from California, one of the places the fight may take place. Let's go to the phone call.
CALLER: Yes, this is Bob.
BRYANT: Hey, Bob. What are you thoughts on the whole Tyson issue? CALLER: Mike Tyson is a gladiator. He's been brought up that way. This is the way he makes his living. He should be allowed to fight. He's -- his whole life depends upon this. Right now, I believe he doesn't need psychological. He needs to be taken off the anabolic steroids and all the steroids that he's on. He's on outrageous steroids.
BRYANT: Well, if his whole life depends on it, then maybe he shouldn't have screwed up so much. Maybe he should have played by the rules.
(CROSSTALK)
GIORDANO: What did he do here that was so bad that he hasn't done before? You knew this was going to happen. These two guys were going to after each other.
KAUFMAN: But if he's a gladiator....
(CROSSTALK)
CARADINE: I have got the greatest idea. Why do you need that kind of hype when you have two of the biggest and best boxers in the industry? People are going to watch a Lennox-Tyson fight.
(CROSSTALK)
KAUFMAN: Here's the pay-per-view of the year. I will pay a pay- per-view event if you can get Mike Tyson to do a death match with Osama bin Laden, OK?
(CROSSTALK)
BRYANT: Who wouldn't pay for that, Joyce?
LYLE: I have got Osama in that one.
BRYANT: I've got a question to throw out to the four of you. What about the theory that Tyson is just plain old afraid of Lennox's upper cut -- if that would be an upper cut? What if he's just plain old afraid and doesn't want to get in the ring because he thinks he's going to get beaten, so he's now hiding?
LYLE: He's going to get $17.5 million for stepping in the ring, win or lose. He's going to get in the ring with him. And don't think that the people in Las Vegas, the gaming commission, is being high and mighty and standing on principle. They'll be just as much money bet on the fights. The only thing that isn't going to take place is the fight there.
And I got news for you. When Tyson is in town, the big high rollers don't come in. So Las Vegas won't lose a nickel.
BRYANT: All right, we have got a comment from Jason here in the audience.
Jason, go ahead.
JASON: I know boxing is a rough sport. There are standards you have to abide by. There are certain precautions. He was trying to get his license back and he went up and screwed up again. So, obviously, something is wrong him in his head. So you might need to look at that.
BRYANT: Right, but maybe he just needs psychological help.
KAUFMAN: Wasn't he married to a psychiatrist?
LYLE: No, she's a medical doctor.
KAUFMAN: He was married to a psychiatrist.
BRYANT: Should Mike go back to jail to get psychiatric help?
KAUFMAN: No, he should go on medication.
GIORDANO: I think anybody that dates Mike Tyson needs psychiatric help.
LYLE: You got that right.
KAUFMAN: If you don't date him, he rapes you. You have to date him.
BRYANT: Oh, that's below the belt. That was below the belt.
CARADINE: Those are allegations. Innocent until proven guilty.
KAUFMAN: He was.
BRYANT: Ding ding ding ding. End of the round, people. We have got to move on.
Up next: It is sex and the Super Bowl. Stay with us right here on TALKBACK LIVE.
Up next on TALKBACK LIVE's "Free-For-All Friday": Where will you be at halftime when the bunnies take on the bands? Would you call this a Super Bowl ratings buster?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hi, I'm Randy Brosier (ph) from Boston University. And to tell you the truth, I'm probably going to be paying more attention to the commercials than the halftime show. But if I had to choose, I'm going with U2. And by the way, go Pats!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(APPLAUSE)
BRYANT: Welcome back.
Sunday: the Rams, the Patriots and the Playboy Playmates. For a lot of guys, it doesn't get any more super than that. We are going to talk about sex in the Super Bowl in just a minute.
However, first, we are going to check in with CNN Sports Illustrated reporter Josie Karp in New Orleans.
Josie, I hear that this is going to be the most secure game the world has ever seen.
JOSIE KARP, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, most people are saying, involved with the security effort, that the safest place to be on Super Bowl Sunday is at the Louisiana Super Dome.
I can just give you a little bit of a taste of what we have had to go through just as reporters here. Starting today, you have to show a key just to get on to your hotel floor. I had to go to a live shot earlier today. And first I had to talk to a Secret Service agent and then I had to get frisked. Then I had to go through a metal detector. Then they had to go through my bag. And then I had to get wanded with one of the handheld metal detectors before I was just allowed to get anywhere near the Louisiana Super Dome.
So that is what is starting today. And it is only going to get tighter and tighter as the game approaches. What they are saying is, they are asking fans to come as soon as possible. So the gates to the Super Dome are going to open about five hours before kickoff. Security people are also asking fans who are coming to bring as little as possible. Just show up with your clothes on your back and your ticket so you can get in and enjoy some pregame festivities and be in your seat through the security by the time kickoff rolls around at 5:30.
BRYANT: Josie, have you spoken to any of the ticket-holders? How do they feel about the fact that they can't bring the big foam finger in and they can't bring the signs and banners?
KARP: Well, the feeling that I'm getting most people is that this has become the necessary evil. And everyone is trying to go along with the program, do what they are asked And, within the confines of that, still have a good time. This is New Orleans after all. I'm not trying to suggest, by any means, that people aren't having fun, because they are.
You're just walking along Bourbon Street and seeing National Guardsmen and National Guard vehicles and things like that. But people are still out in force and still having a good time.
BRYANT: All right, well, why don't you get to go in and having some good time yourself there, Josie? Thanks for joining us. Go, Patriots.
And that's what I'm saying, go Patriots. I can't help the fact that I'm a Pats fan. Now, while the powerhouses are out there on the gridiron on Fox, it turns out there is going to be some counter-programming going on over on the other channels. NBC, for example, is going to be doing an episode of "Fear Factor" featuring Playboy Playmates. I got the thumbs up from the camera guy. Was that for the Playmates? I don't know. Maybe it was.
But, Dom, I want to talk to you about that. Dom, do you think that that's a good thing to do, to stimulate the ratings, to steal the ratings from the football game?
GIORDANO: Absolutely. You used the perfect word there, stimulate. And I think that's what I'm going to be watching. I one of the few honest American males. I want to see the "Fear Factor" with Playmates.
And, you know, there are proposition bets that go on with the Super Bow, all kinds of weird bets. I'm betting on the overall score vs. the I.Q. of the average Playmate. It's going to be a heck of a bet going on.
(LAUGHTER)
BRYANT: I agree with you.
We've got somebody in the audience. Tip from Maryland, what are your thoughts?
TIP: I think it's appealing to the lowest common denominator. And I think that there should be programming that appeals to a higher standard than having Playboy Bunnies with "Fear Factor."
GIORDANO: PBS will still be available for you, trust me.
(CROSSTALK)
KAUFMAN: And what is highbrow about U2?
BRYANT: Well, Joyce, in defense of U2, they are a political band and they have said in press conferences that they are very proud about being part of this very patriotic day, that day. And they are going to really do their best to unite people there.
KAUFMAN: Wait a second. This is the political band that, last year, when Bono spoke at Harvard to the graduating class, he was virtually booed off the stage for saying, "Now, I don't want you guys to go out there and become these hardened capitalists who are going to run roughshod over all the Third World countries," blah blah blah.
This is the most patriotic guy we which find?
BRYANT: Exactly. It's just -- the halftime show, in that case, should maybe just be about the music.
Monique, what do you think of this whole thing.
(CROSSTALK)
CARADINE: Bring on my girl, Mary J. Blige.
KAUFMAN: Alicia Keys.
CARADINE: I agree with your audience member. Television is constantly reaching an-all time low. But, unfortunately, that's what sells: sex and gore. So if that's what you want, that's what you get.
LYLE: Well, not Al Gore.
(CROSSTALK)
LYLE: Turn it off.
(CROSSTALK)
GIORDANO: There are 100 channels on that day, Monique.
CARADINE: It's most important whatever you want to watch. But I question the character of those who will sit there and watch the Playmates on the "Fear Factor" show.
(CROSSTALK)
LYLE: This is a character test now, all right.
(CROSSTALK)
KAUFMAN: By the way, could we just make sure that someone is sitting next to the president and doesn't allow him any pretzels during this game?
(CROSSTALK)
GIORDANO: Which channel will he be watching?
LYLE: Can we make that venue secure for the 100,000 or so people that are going to be there? They are doing the very best job they can. I used to live in New Orleans. I've been at many events at the Super Dome. They are going to a phenomenal job. That's what we should be concerned about, the people there.
And, look, if you are a Patriots fan -- I was born and raised in Boston. I think the Pats will win.
BRYANT: Me, too.
LYLE: People from St. Louis and L.A. are going the other way. That's what we should be concerned with. All the other stuff, this is all extraneous. If they want naked girls at halftime, let them have them. Who the hell cares?
GIORDANO: Karyn, I have one other point, though, something that I think is interesting. The Super Bowl adds, there will be two anti- drug ads this year that the White House is putting out for $3 million. KAUFMAN: With my money.
GIORDANO: That's a bust.
(CROSSTALK)
BRYANT: We're going to talk to Jason here in the audience. Jason, what are your thoughts?
JASON: Well, they got Playmates on "Fear Factor," but they didn't even get top Playmates. There's no Playmates of the year. I would tune in if there was quality.
(CROSSTALK)
BRYANT: What do you think about the fact -- OK, the president of NBC -- his name is Jeff Zucker -- he has come out and said we are going to do this halftime thing. We are winking more than you guys. It's just been a tough year. And we are just going to have some good clean fun. Do you think that's the right attitude from a network executive?
(CROSSTALK)
JASON: ... and making money. That's the bottom line in anything. They have to sell. And it's going to be hard to beat the ratings of the Super Bowl. I'm just not crazy about seeing -- as gorgeous as these women are, they are going to be eating crickets or put in awkward positions, that's just not attractive.
BRYANT: What do you guys think?
Dom, what do you think about that? Is Jeff Zucker correct in taking that position?
GIORDANO: Well, I do think he's correct in trying to counter- program against this. I just don't want him to be highfalutin now a few days later talking about NBC in some kind of highbrow way. This is like a scene out of "Network. " This is what TV often is. And it's a brilliant counter-programming move. We're talking about it.
LYLE: Yes. No one at GE called up and said don't do it.
GIORDANO: Yes, exactly.
KAUFMAN: Well, what are the women supposed to watch?
BRYANT: Well, you know, Joyce, I personally will watch football, because, like Paul, I'm from outside of Boston and I'm a huge Patriots fan. I might be one of the only women watching football.
KAUFMAN: I'm going to the mall.
BRYANT: Go to the mall. And maybe there's some "Murder She Wrote" on one of the channels or Disney on Ice or something like that.
We have got a phone call.
LYLE: Hey, there will be "Three Stooges" marathons, if you want them.
KAUFMAN: I want naked men in "Fear Factor."
BRYANT: Let's take a phone call. Go ahead.
CALLER: Hi. Yes.
I wanted to agree with Paul and say that ratings are important no matter whether the Super Bowl is on or not. And if that's the way to get ratings during the Super Bowl, then that's what they have to do. And I'm going to watch the Playboy special.
BRYANT: Well, what about in general?
We have some got some claps over here.
You guys are too young for the Playboy stuff over there.
What about television in general, though? This past year NBC was also the first major network to add hard liquor adds. They say that the sexual references in television shows are becoming more and more frequent. Is television on the moral decline?
CARADINE: Absolutely, it is. And when you talk about -- the hypocrisy is amazing, especially when you consider all the money that the president wants to be thrown at abstinence-only programs. You are telling kids on one side not to have sex, but then when they turn on the television, that's all they see.
So there are some problems there with consistency. And I think we have to decide how we feel about this thing. Either we like it or we don't. And if we are OK with it, then we need to be willing to have some open and honest dialogue with our children about it.
(CROSSTALK)
BRYANT: The parents have got to watch the game.
You know what? Thank you to all of you. We are out of time. That is our "Free-For-All Friday." I thank all our guests here.
(CROSSTALK)
BRYANT: Thank you. And thank you too, for watching.
I'm Karyn Bryant. I've had a lot of fun hosting this week here. "TALKBACK LIVE: America Speaks Out" will be back on Monday. Have a great weekend. Enjoy the Super Bowl, regardless of what you watch during halftime. I'll see you later.
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