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CNN Wolf Blitzer Reports

American Taliban Receives Indictments; Is Daniel Pearl Still Alive?

Aired February 05, 2002 - 19:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
WOLF BLITZER, WOLF BLITZER REPORTS: Tonight, on WOLF BLITZER REPORTS, THE WAR ROOM:

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOHN ASHCROFT, ATTORNEY GENERAL: As today's indictment sets out, John Walker Lindh chose to train with al Qaeda, chose to fight with the Taliban, chose to be led by Osama bin Laden.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: A legal tug of war over a Taliban American, but his attorneys want him set free pending trial.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MARIANNE PEARL, WIFE OF DANIEL PEARL: Please make contact with me, you know, I'm ready.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: Pleas from Daniel Pearl's wife and colleagues, silence from his kidnappers. Is there hope he's still alive? I'll ask Frank Smyth, a veteran journalist who once spent 18 days in Iraqi captivity.

Is the Iraqi leader ready to change his ways? I'll ask the former U.N. Chief Weapons Inspector, Richard Butler, as we go into THE WAR ROOM.

Good evening, I'm Wolf Blitzer, reporting tonight from Washington. It's been a day of dramatic developments in the case of American Taliban fighter John Walker Lindh. His lawyers want his freed on bail, but he remains at a northern Virginia jail at this hour, and that's precisely where the U.S. Government wants him.

Late this afternoon, a federal grand jury indicted Walker Lindh on 10 counts, accusing him of being a terrorist trained by al Qaeda. CNN's Susan Candiotti joins us now live with the latest -- Susan.

SUSAN CANDIOTTI, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, the indictment including six new charges, comes on the eve of a hearing in which Walker Lindh will try to go free, pending trial. Through the Freedom of Information Act, CNN obtained a new photo of Walker Lindh. It was taken just after his arrival at a jail in Virginia last month.

Walker Lindh now faces multiple life terms plus another 90 years, if convicted of all 10 charges, including Conspiracy to kill Americans overseas. The Justice Department says Walker Lindh chose to be led by Osama bin Laden and his terrorist network.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ASHCROFT: The reasons for his choices may never be fully known to us, but the fact of these choices is clear. American who love their country do not dedicate themselves to killing Americans.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CANDIOTTI: In the newly filed motion, Walker Lindh's lawyers argue their client should be released until trial because he won't flee and poses no danger to anyone. They also argue that Walker Lindh's statements to the FBI should be inadmissible and are highly unreliable.

In part, they insist that is because Walker Lindh for at least two to three days before he was interviewed by the FBI, was taped to a stretcher, blindfolded and naked. And then they go on to say the following:

"When Mr. Lindh asked for a lawyer he was told there were no lawyers there. Mr. Lindh believed that the only way to escape the torture of his current circumstance was to do whatever the agent wanted. It was at this point that Mr. Lindh allegedly voluntarily waived his right to remain silent and his right to counsel and answered questions by the FBI interrogator."

Now there will be that detention hearing first thing in the morning, and Walker Lindh's lawyers say his parents are expected to be there -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Susan, what are the chances according to experts in this area, that he might be freed on bail?

CANDIOTTI: Most experts, in fact every expert we talk with say it's highly unlikely that he would be released, and today the Justice Department emphasized that because of the serious nature of some of these charges, all of these charges, they also believe it is highly unlikely that a judge would go along with pre-trial release.

BLITZER: Susan Candiotti, thank you very much for that report. And turning now to the case of the American journalist, Daniel Pearl. He was abducted two weeks ago in Karachi, Pakistan.

While there's word police may be a step closer to identifying the kidnappers, there's been no word recently from the kidnappers themselves who had earlier threatened to kill the Wall Street Journal reporter.

Joining us now live from the State Department is our correspondent there, Andrea Koppel. She's been talking to officials. She has some late developments -- Andrea.

ANDREA KOPPEL, CNN STATE DEPARTMENT CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, that's right. A couple of important developments that have just come through. The first is that U.S. officials tell me that they are very optimistic that Daniel Pearl, the 38-year-old Wall Street Journal reporter is still alive. One official told me, we think he's still alive and we are very optimistic.

The second development is that officials believe they have identified two key players, two key individuals in the kidnapping, one of whom is a man by the name of Sheikh Omar Sayid (ph). He is the member of a radical Pakistani Islamic group.

He, if our viewers remember back in 1999, was freed as part of a hostages-for-prisoner release that was done following the hijacking of an Indian airline plane back in December of 1999. Since that time, Mr. Sayid has been on the lamb, and he is so this evening.

Officials are looking for him. They believe that he is the ringleader behind the kidnapping of Daniel Pearl, Wolf. And in addition to that, officials say that as a result of recent arrests that were made in Pakistan in the last day or so, they believe that they know, in the words of one senior official here, "who's on first and who's on second." But again, one official cautioning saying, "this is a very delicate stage in the investigation -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Obviously very good cooperation between the U.S. and Pakistani governments in this particular case. But just to clarify one point, there's been no word from the kidnappers in the last few days, no pictures, no e-mails, basically no nothing?

KOPPEL: That's absolutely correct; nevertheless, U.S. officials are confident and optimistic that Daniel Pearl is still alive, based on the debriefing and some of the information they were able to get from recent arrests made in Pakistan.

And for that very reason, Wolf, the United States, the Wall Street Journal, Pakistani officials are all calling upon the kidnappers to prove that Daniel Pearl is still in their captivity and is still alive by sending another e-mail with new pictures.

BLITZER: Andrea Koppel of the State Department, thank you very much. Let's hope that optimism is justified. Meantime, Daniel Pearl's French-born wife Marianne has made another plea for his release, this time in an interview with the BBC.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

PEARL: Even though I'm like really suffering, I do not give up on the idea that, you know, that making innocent people suffer would not help in any way. It would be like me saying oh, the Pakistani are holding my husband prisoner, you know, if I was making a general statement. And it's the opposite, you know.

Since I've been in Pakistan, I've learned so much about the people. I've learned so much about Islam, you know, their religion. Even my own opinion has, you know, (UNINTELLIGIBLE) and so I have a lot of respect for these people.

So I won't be afraid to talk to them, you know. On the contrary, there are so many issues. The first thing I would tell them is don't harm an innocent man, you know, because you're just going to like create more and more, one more misery, use Danny as a symbol and all of this is completely wrong, completely wrong, you know.

But I can argue that, you know. So that's the first thing. There are so many issues that we could talk about, but the main thing is that this dialogue still can go on and we can't like give up on that. That's what I would say mainly.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: And in the interview, Marianne Pearl, who's pregnant with the couple's first child, offers to exchange herself for her husband.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PEARL: I'm the one who's more affected by Danny's disappearance. So if anybody's going to give his life to save him, it's me, right, and I have asked like, you know, please make contact with me. You know, I'm ready.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: And in an open letter, the Wall Street Journal Managing Editor, Paul Steiger, has appealed to the kidnappers to communicate privately, perhaps through one of Daniel Pearl's friends, so that a dialogue can be established.

So is there hope for Daniel Pearl? Will the international outcry over his kidnapping bring results? Joining me here in the CNN WAR ROOM, Frank Smyth of the Committee to Protect Journalists. He's reported from Latin American, Africa, and the Middle East, and after the Gulf War, he was detained in 1991 for 18 days by Iraqi troops who executed one of his colleagues.

Remember, you can e-mail your WAR ROOM questions to us. Go to my Web page, cnn.com/wolf. That's also where you can read my daily column.

Frank, thanks so much for joining us. Why were you spared and your colleague Gad Gross (ph) killed?

FRANK SMYTH, COMMITTEE TO PROTECT JOURNALISTS: Gad ran off toward some houses with an armed Kurdish guerrilla named Baktiar Abdulla Ruman (ph) and we were separated under heavy fire, and myself and a French photographer, Alan Bout (ph) dove into a ditch and Gad and Baktiar ran towards the houses.

Iraqi forces were camped all around us throughout the night. In the morning, they captured two people from the houses. We weren't sure who they were. We heard them execute one. We heard a scream and then a second execution, and then we later saw Iraqi soldiers walking away with Gad's camera bag, so we knew it was them.

We thought at that point we would be found shortly and killed. They found us an hour later. They were going to kill us, but a Baath party intelligence officer intervened and he wound up eventually arguing with Iraqi Army Special Forces officers. They wanted to kill us because they knew that their soldiers had killed one of our colleagues, but the intelligence officer insisted that we be saved for interrogation.

BLITZER: You were held for 18 days. Daniel Pearl is now almost 14 days. You've been in his shoes basically. Walk us through what was going through your mind during that eight-day period of captivity.

SMYTH: Well, it's a mixture of fear and guilt and anxiety. If you think of the image of water in a well, and the water is all the love that you've received in your life. Now is the time where you will dip into that well and draw upon that water to sustain yourself.

I'm sure that he is thinking about his family, and most of all, his wife Marianne, and trying to just get through the day. And I would think that -- when I was in that situation, every hour, every day that you're still alive, you feel like you're ahead of the game.

BLITZER: What should we be doing on the outside? Is it productive to do what we're doing, provide all this publicity, this international outcry? Or is it better to just be quiet?

SMYTH: No, it's absolutely imperative to get the word out and to get the word out not only in the United States, but internationally. We're encouraged by the number of statements we've heard, for example, from Muhammad Ali, Usef Islam formerly known as Cat Stevens, as well as statements that a number of leading Pakistani journalists, along with the Pakistani Journalists Union have made on his behalf.

BLITZER: And the whole notion of the U.S. Government negotiating for the freedom of Danny Pearl, how does that stand with you?

SMYTH: Well I don't think the United States Government can do much of anything. Clearly, the issues are separate. They are raising a number of issues in terms of the prisoners that are detained in Guantanamo Bay.

The reason that they know about the treatment of those prisoners and the conditions they're being held in, is because of reporters like Daniel Pearl.

Anything the State Department would do in terms of being too proactive about this might only encourage the captors to believe that, in fact, believe their own claims, which are bogus, that he is a western agent.

So I think what we need is a community effort by the press and by others to make an appeal independently of the United States Government.

BLITZER: There have been some suggestions Danny Pearl might be moved around from place to place. Were you moved around during those 18 days?

SMYTH: We were moved from northern Iraq to a safe house in Baghdad, and then we were moved to a prison. I believe it was Abu Grade Prison (ph) west of Baghdad where we stayed about 15 days.

BLITZER: And how did you finally get released?

SMYTH: Iraqi Ministry of Information officers came to the prison, right before midnight on Ramadan, the end of the Muslim Holy month of fasting, and they said that we are -- the release had been ordered personally by Saddam Hussein.

BLITZER: So you think in this particular case with Danny Pearl, it might take a very, very high level decision on the part of whoever's holding him to get him released?

SMYTH: Well certainly the captors will have to make the calculation and hopefully they'll realize that any violence against him will only work against them, and hopefully they'll realize that it's in their interest to release him.

BLITZER: OK. Frank Smyth, I'm glad you're here with us. Thanks for joining us, sharing some of your personal experiences with us as well, underscoring the dangers facing our colleagues who are out there in dangerous areas.

SMYTH: Thank you, Wolf.

BLITZER: Thank you so much.

SMYTH: Sure.

BLITZER: And remember, I want to hear from you. Go to my Web page at cnn.com/wolf, and click on the designation for comments to me and my producers. We'll try to read all of those comments and answer as many of them as we possibly can.

And when we come back, is Saddam Hussein feeling the pressure? We'll have reaction to word from Iraq that the Iraqis are now ready to talk to the United Nations. I'll be joined live by Richard Butler, the former Chief U.N. Weapons Inspector. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Welcome back. Following U.S. saber rattling, Iraq has sent out feelers about resuming a dialogue with the United Nations. The last meetings ended a year ago with no progress on issues such as a return of U.N. weapons inspectors. The U.N. has reacted coolly to this latest Iraqi proposal, and so has the United States.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

COLIN POWELL, SECRETARY OF STATE: The inspectors have to go back in under our terms, under no one else's terms, under the terms of the Security Council resolution. The burden is upon this evil regime to demonstrate to the world that they are not doing the kinds of things we suspect them of, and if they aren't doing these things, then it is beyond me why they do not want the inspectors in to do whatever is necessary to establish such activities are not taking place.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: President Bush, as you know, has referred to Iraq, Iran, and North Korea as an "axis of evil", and Secretary Powell today said the United States is watching all three of those nations very closely.

So is there a chance Iraq will allow U.N. weapons inspectors once again to come in and see for themselves what's going on? Is there anything to talk about?

Joining me now from New York is Richard Butler, the former Chief U.N. Weapons Inspector. Ambassador Butler, thank you very much for joining us. So the bottom-line, have the Iraqis blinked now by offering this initiative to the U.N.?

RICHARD BUTLER, FORMER CHIEF U.N. WEAPONS INSPECTOR: By no means clear, Wolf. In the intro you said that maybe in response to the State of the Union Speech. I'm not sure that that's true. Iraq and Russia have been talking for a couple of weeks now in a fairly vigorous way about trying to fix the Iraq problem.

Now so maybe they brought it forward in the last 48 hours as a consequence of the "axis of evil" speech, but this has been cooking for a while. Wolf, in substance, there's something that suggests to me that there's not much going to come out of this, which is that Iraq has said that it wants to come and have these talks without preconditions.

Now that's nonsense. They are under conditions and it's called international law, and the Secretary General of the U.N. referred to this in responding to the Iraq proposal. He said, "I'll talk with you about your compliance with the decisions of the Security Council, in other words, international law.

So there's a gap between Iraq saying, "we'll come if there are no conditions," and the Secretary General pointing out quite rightly there are inherent conditions here, namely that you are in breach of the law, and that's what I want to talk with you about, meaning getting inspectors back into the country.

BLITZER: As you know, there are some experts, some current U.S. officials and I've spoken with them who don't want U.N. weapons inspectors actually to go back to Iraq because they believe the Iraqis will just give them the runaround for a long time, won't be allowed to really do any serious inspection, and will simply delay what they want to see, which is the start of U.S. air strikes against Iraq. You've heard this argument.

BUTLER: Right. Yes I have, Wolf, and there are two parts to it. Let's take the first part first. What kind of inspections would be at issue?

Now I can't see into the future, but I'll have a side bet with you, Wolf, that what the Iraqis will do if they actually get to the U.N. and have these talks, is that they will talk endlessly about the form and the methodology of the inspections basically to insure that they haven't got a snowball's chance in hell of finding anything, and that would be very, very disturbing.

Now to the second part of your question, yes I guess it is true. I think there are some senior people in Washington who hold the view, and who knows maybe they're right, that this is a merry-go-round that we're about to see start again.

Phony inspections, endless discussions, and that the gut reality is that you've got a dictator in Baghdad who is something akin to a terrorist, who is in breach of the law as far as weapons of mass destruction are concerned and inspections of his country, and as Colin Powell has pointed out, if they've got nothing to hide, why don't they have inspectors back? And that maybe we should just stop this merry- go-round and go and deal with the problem.

And some of those voices are strong and I don't think they'll take kindly to, you know, what is now being proposed, a further round of talks at the U.N.

BLITZER: You know, there was some tough talk from the Iraqi Vice President Taha Hussein Ramadan...

BUTLER: That's right.

BLITZER: ... in a Russian newspaper today. I want to put up on the screen an excerpt of what he said about the United States. He says this: "The United States has toughened even more the policies that were the reason for the events in New York and Washington. Its policy has become even dirtier. If nothing changes, America will draw even larger fire on itself. Something even more dreadful than the events of September 11th may happen." That sounds like a threat from Baghdad.

BUTLER: That's right, Wolf. I mean how can we possibly interpret these people. On the one hand, they send poor (UNINTELLIGIBLE) to the head of the Arab League in to see Kofi Annan yesterday with a message from Saddam Hussein, talking about, saying we will have these unconditional talks.

On the other hand, the deputy to Saddam is making a bellicose statement, a threatening statement, the one that you just put on the screen. I mean how to figure these people out, it almost beats, defies the imagination.

But one other thing I want to put to you, Wolf, an interesting report has come in from Israel that points out that about a month ago, Israeli and United States military personnel conducted exercises together in order to practice shooting down incoming missiles. This was with the Arrow and Patriot systems. In other words, they are already practicing against the eventuality that if there is a military move against Iraq, which I strongly suspect there will be, that as a last gesture, if I can call it that, as a last action as Saddam goes down, he might fire some of the Scud missiles he has at Israel.

So, you know, this is a very complex and very serious picture, and I'm not sure that what is being proposed now for further talks at the U.N. gets to the core issues.

BLITZER: Very briefly, Ambassador, do you have a rough number how many of those Scud missiles the Iraqis might still have in their arsenal?

BUTLER: I'm not sure, Wolf. I think it's probably up to 20. But I tell you this, three years ago when they threw me and my inspectors out, one of the things that I put on the table was the need for us to get a final account of what remaining missiles they had with that range, and the fuel to fly them and some spare rocket engines, and it was one of the reasons they threw me out, was that they said "we're not going to give you those things."

So I have to conclude, and I know the intelligence authorities believe, that they do retain some such missile capability, maybe about 20 of them.

BLITZER: OK, Ambassador Butler, thank you very much for your insight.

BUTLER: OK, thank you, Wolf.

BLITZER: And this note -- thank you very much. Jane Araaf will have much more on Iraq in her special report, "LIVE FROM BAGHDAD." That's right at the top of the hour. And we'll be back in just a moment with a quick check of the top stories this hour.

Battling the bio threat, we'll have the latest on the President's plans. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Checking the headlines now in our "News Alert": President Bush turns his focus to the threat of bioterrorism. On a visit to a University of Pittsburgh research center, Mr. Bush promoted his plans for a big increase in spending on defenses against biological attack. The new Bush budget seeks $6 billion for biodefense.

And one day after deciding against appearing at Enron hearings on Capitol Hill, former Enron chief Ken Lay is being subpoenaed. There's word from Lay's attorneys that their client will appear before the House Financial Services Committee, and a Senate Commerce Subcommittee probably next week. It remains to be seen if he will refuse to testify or take questions, only answer questions citing his Fifth Amendment protection. That's all the time we have tonight. Please join me again tomorrow twice at both 5:00 and 7:00 p.m. Eastern. Until then, thanks very much for watching. I'm Wolf Blitzer in Washington. "CROSSFIRE" begins right now.

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