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American Morning

Both Israelis and Palestinians Increasing Their Firepower

Aired February 11, 2002 - 07:32   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: We have been telling you this morning about an escalation of the violence in the Middle East. Both Israelis and Palestinians are increasing their firepower, just as Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon returns from talks with President Bush.

For his views now, let's turn to Richard Butler, our ambassador- in-residence -- good morning.

RICHARD BUTLER, FORMER U.N. CHIEF WEAPONS INSPECTOR: Good morning, Paula.

ZAHN: So what do you make of this round -- whatever you would call it -- in the last 12 to 18 hours, four major airstrikes in Israel?

BUTLER: Well, it's very deeply disturbing -- very disturbing. Prime Minister Sharon was here, had a talk with the president only on Friday, has arrived back, and of course, there was a shocking Palestinian attack. But he seems to have responded very, very sharply, and the talk is of war. I'm not sure that that's the correct term, but we won't go there. That gets into some issues that are quite complex.

Israel obviously has to defend itself against these attacks, but I think what we should be concerned about is that Prime Minister Sharon may have decided that the way to solve this 50-year-old problem with the Palestinians is to do it through war. Paula, I don't think that will work, and I think it could harm us greatly -- very deeply.

ZAHN: What do you think the U.S. role should be at this juncture?

BUTLER: The U.S. has got to get more deeply involved in this problem. Remember, in the initial period of this administration, they didn't want to touch it. Leave it to the two parties. That didn't work. Then, they started to become engaged, most recently in sending General Zinni there. General Zinni has been pulled out now, because of this increasing violence.

I think the United States -- no, Vice President Cheney, of course, is going there in a few weeks' time. I hope that's soon enough. We have got to find a way to make clear, I think, to Israel that a solution through war is probably not going to work. It will escalate. It will get worse. And we have also, I think, got to be involved from the point of view of our own interests.

You know, there are a lot of people in the context of the war on terrorism after the axis of evil speech, there's a lot of disturbance about that. There are a lot of people, a lot of countries, who think that the Israeli tale is wagging the American dog, and that's not good for us. And we can only deal with that by getting directly involved with the problem.

ZAHN: Well, let's talk where one of our allies is today. And you've got France now calling for the immediate declaration of a Palestinian state in advance of even any cease-fire being worked out. What do you make of the timing of that?

BUTLER: I can be very economical about this. It's a joke -- a joke. I mean, you can't leap over the issues of what state, what borders, what people? You know, the refugees issues? Which capital? Jerusalem or not, part of it, all of it. I mean, the French are extraordinary.

ZAHN: So what's the point of the gesture then?

BUTLER: It's grandstanding, and maybe it's not unconnected from the fact that President Chirac has now formally announced his candidature in the forthcoming presidential elections.

ZAHN: Ah!

BUTLER: There you go -- a little domestic politics.

ZAHN: That piece of the puzzle makes sense.

BUTLER: Yes. And you know, there is a fairly -- what shall I say -- deepish well of anti-Israeli sentiment in France, and I think he is fishing in that well. But, Paula, it's a joke. You can't just leap over this problem by declaring a Palestinian state. That's what has been at issue in the whole thing.

ZAHN: Well, let's move onto the issue of Iraq now. You have Saddam Hussein actually sending out a letter to a Turkish official demanding that U.S. hostility towards Iraq stop, no mention of any -- well, actually I guess the letter isn't so subtle. It says, we are not going to allow weapons inspections. What do you make of that at the same time now that you have President Putin of Russia saying...

BUTLER: Yes.

ZAHN: ... the U.S. cannot go it alone?

BUTLER: Great question. This is really, you know, also a subject that is developing fast, and we'll see a lot more of in the weeks ahead. The Turkish prime minister wrote to Saddam Hussein saying he'd like to help solve the Iraq problem. Saddam has now replied to him saying, you know, I'm a good guy. We want to solve the problem too with talks and so on, but made no mention of the absolute core issue of getting weapons inspectors back into Iraq. So...

ZAHN: Well, by not mentioning that...

BUTLER: Well...

ZAHN: ... it's a complete nonstarter.

BUTLER: One Arab official said that he thinks that the way he handled the issue doesn't actually shut the door. I don't believe it. He is not going to do that, Paula, and that makes it a continuing serious problem.

Now, in this context, President Putin of Russia in an extraordinary interview in "The Kremlin," where he covered many things, but he sent a very clear signal to the United States saying you've got a free pass on Afghanistan. We understood what you did there, because of the attacks of 9/11 and so on, and the role of the Taliban and giving (UNINTELLIGIBLE) to al Qaeda. But you won't get a free pass on Iraq. That's a much bigger problem, and if you want to take action against Iraq, you'll have to first talk with us, and maybe it would be better if you also went to the Security Council of the U.N. and got, you know, them on board.

Interestingly, he didn't rule out entirely some military action against Iraq, but what he is saying is not without us, not without international legitimacy, not alone. And...

(CROSSTALK)

ZAHN: The U.S. shouldn't be surprised by this, though, given the amount of money that Iraq owes Russia right now, right?

BUTLER: Absolutely, but also this. Russia has watched NATO expand. It has watched a lot of things happen at the end of the Cold War that have reduced its role as a kind of co-equal superpower with the U.S. The one place in the world where they have that kind of influence that they had in the past is actually in Baghdad. And I think that's what he's also defending.

ZAHN: Richard Butler, we covered a lot of territory this morning.

BUTLER: Good.

ZAHN: Appreciate your dropping by -- see you same time, same place tomorrow.

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