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American Morning
Activists Cliff May, Bob Beckel on Next Presidential Election
Aired February 13, 2002 - 08:44 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: Did the Gore speech signal a start of a political comeback? Let's get reaction to this and more from our "Sound Off" guests.
From Boise, Idaho, Bob Beckel got up early for us this morning, Democratic political strategist.
We love you for that, Bob.
And in Washington, Cliff May, president of the Foundation for the Defense of Democracies.
Welcome back to you, Cliff.
CLIFF MAY, PRESIDENT, FOUNDATION FOR THE DEFENSE OF DEMOCRACIES: Good morning, Paula.
ZAHN: Before we talk of the substance of what the former vice president had to say, is he running or isn't he, Cliff?
MAY: I think there's a better and better chance that he is at least contemplating that very, very seriously. I would be surprised if he didn't, frankly. I was also pleased to hear what he had to say. He certainly sounded more like President Bush than he did like Tom Daschle.
ZAHN: Does this sound like a more moderate former Vice President Gore, Bob, than the man you remembered?
BOB BECKEL, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: I'm sure Cliff liked what Gore had to say. The only missing thing is he (UNINTELLIGIBLE) like to launch nuclear strikes. But no, nothing political about what Gore did last night. Oh, no. Now, do we think we would have heard the speech from Gore two years ago? No. Yes, it's politics. Yes, that means he's in the mix. Yes, he wants to keep his options open.
I don't know whether he's going to run. Nobody knows. But I like to hear Cliff say that because you know what they're thinking: Oh, we would love to have Gore again.
ZAHN: Is that what you're thinking this morning, Cliff? I don't think.
MAY: No, I'm thinking about the axis of evil line, which I think was an elegant and simple way of explaining what this War on Terrorism is all about. What Bush was saying with this line -- and I don't understand why this is hard to grasp -- he was saying that the terrorists that we are fighting today, the jihadists, are the direct descendants of the evil empire, the Soviet communists we fought in the Cold War, and the Axis power, the Nazis and fascists that we fought in World War II.
How are they the same? Very simple. The communists and the Nazis wanted to destroy Western democracies and had nothing but hatred and contempt for Christianity and Judaism. The terrorists we are fighting today, the jihadists, they want to destroy Western democracies, and they have nothing but hatred and contempt for Christianity and Judaism.
It's the same kind of war. Bush takes it just as seriously. What's more, there is one difference between the communists and the Nazis and the jihadists: The communists and the Nazis never managed to kill thousands of Americans on American soil, and our enemies today, they have done so.
ZAHN: Bob, how critical is it that Secretary of State Colin Powell made a further distinction yesterday in his talks before Congress about basically separating Iraq from Iran and North Korea in this equation?
BECKEL: Well, I think it was important for Powell to do that. You always notice Bush and these people shoot off on these things and then Powell comes along to clean up behind the horse.
The fact of the matter, is calling them an evil axis is a great applause line. I mean even my friend Cliff could give that line and get an applause -- maybe. But the point is once you give the line, then you've got to follow up.
(CROSSTALK)
MAY: Bob, address what I just said.
(CROSSTALK)
BECKEL: I'd be happy to address what you just said. First of all, what you just said, Cliff was you said Christians and Jews. That's nice. You left out about 2 billion Muslims in the world. Number one.
Number two...
MAY: Understand -- let me be very clear on this. The Islamists, the jihadists, they're also against moderate Muslims; 100,000 moderate Muslims have been killed in Algeria by these same Islamic fascists. But their particular contempt is for Christianity and Judaism. We know that, Bob. But this is not about Islam, this is about Islamism.
(CROSSTALK)
BECKEL: Excuse me for a second. Here's the point. You start to saber rattle. And you wonder why the world reacts the way they do? Yes, it's a good line, but if we go into Iraq and try to get Saddam Hussein -- a job, by the way, that another generation of Bushes might have wanted to get down 12 years ago, but that's OK -- we're going to go in and take care of this. Maybe.
You have named three countries. If we go into Iraq, what do you think the North Koreans are going to think? They may be coming here.
(CROSSTALK)
MAY: Bob, I hope they'll think it's a real danger...
(CROSSTALK)
...to develop weapons of mass destruction and show hostility to America. What we have to show in the world that we're a nation that protects and defends its friends and destroys and defeats the enemies, that's the main communication. What we're saying to North Korea, Iraq, and Iran is you're going to change your ways, or we'll change you. That's an important message. We haven't given that message in the past. We have show that we're serious. If we had been serious in 1993, after the first World Trade Center bombing, we might not have had the second.
BECKEL: Cliff, you make me want to sing "God Bless America."
ZAHN: Bob, a quick final thought on that, and then I want to move you on to something involving the Clintons. A quick final thought on that, Bob.
BECKEL: The point is that when you say these things, they may be domestically politically a good line, but you have consequences. And the consequences here are that you start talking about this, and we don't have to worry about the missiles from North Korea, Cliff, but the Japanese and the South Koreans do. You think they'd feel happy about this axis of evil? No. You know we're not going to North Korea. We've done that once, remember?
ZAHN: In closing this morning, I want to move you both along to the controversy over Giftgate and the Clintons. A new congressional report is out among other things saying the Clintons information, saying that the Clintons departed the White House with more than $400,000 worth of gifts in January of 2001. The committee also went on to say that included $360,000 of big ticket items, as well as additional gifts worth $40,000 that were not disclosed, were undervalued, or were too small to trigger public disclosure. That coming from Rep. Doug Ose, heading up this investigation. What do you make of that, Cliff? How damaging is this?
MAY: When presidents leave the White House, they ought to take memories; they probably ought to leave the silverware behind. If that wasn't clear to the Clintons, I hope we'll make it clear to future presidents. It's tawdry.
ZAHN: Bob? BECKEL: You know, for the right wing, the Clintons are the gift that keeps on giving. If they didn't have these people, they'd have into invent them. Now, look, I defended Clintons for eight years. I feel like the fire hydrant at the Westminster dog show. Does it matter? No, I think most of them take things out of there. If they took the silverware, the guy never had a house before that. You have to put some stuff in it.
ZAHN: Oh, come on, you've defending this, Bob Beckel? You think this is an OK thing, to undervalue items?
(CROSSTALK)
BECKEL: I'll get serious. Let's talk about Nancy Reagan and her designer dress that cost $15,000 to $20,000, and they ended up in Nancy's closet. Until somebody made a big deal about it, and they came out of Nancy's closet.
MAY: I wish she had left those dresses, you know, possibly for Bill Clinton or Al Gore or somebody in the future.
BECKEL: You know, Cliff, sometime I wish they had left you back with your mama.
The point is this is another line. It's going to keep another network -- not ours -- another network going for a year and a half or two of a reality show. Who got the silverware, who got the china? Come on. We're talking about war here and you want to talk about Clintons again? I'm telling you I'm getting tired of it.
MAY: Bob, our good friend Paula brought it up.
(CROSSTALK)
But Paula, I want to say about Bob Beckel, he's the last man in America still trying to figure out what the meaning of "is" is.
ZAHN: You know what I have to do? I have to bring both of you back. Because there's another investigation going on, about the vandalism at the White House. You come back later this week and we'll discuss that as well.
(CROSSTALK)
ZAHN: Thank you both.
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