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American Morning
Does Priestly Celibacy Contribute to Sexual Misconduct?
Aired February 15, 2002 - 09:08 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: "Up Front" this morning, sex and the priesthood. It's a subject the Catholic Church normally prefers to keep under cover, but a number of sexual abuse scandals involving clergy have forced it out in the open. Does the demand for priests to remain celibate contribute to sexual misconduct? In a moment, we'll be talking to a bishop and a former priest about that.
But first, CNN's Bill Delaney in Boston with a story of one priest who took a different vow, the marriage vow.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BILL DELANEY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: When Father Ron Ingalls' priestly vestments go on, it is an act of rebellion from the heart and soul. When he performs the sacrament of marriage, the Catholic Church doesn't recognize it, because Ron Ingalls himself is married.
RON INGALLS, MARRIED PRIEST: The two people in the relationship actually marry each other. They confer the sacrament, the wholeness. I can't do with any kind of official recognition, but in my own belief, and my own faith, and in their faith, I think a true sacrament happens.
Ordained in 1960, Father Ron is one of an estimated 110,000 Roman Catholic priests around the world who, in the past 25 years, married. In Ingalls case to Sheila. How many married priests still practice their priesthood, no one is sure.
(on camera): What is for sure is that here in Boston, the issue of married priests and celibacy, for and against, is again being talked about among Catholics, with new intensity in the wake of sexual scandal within the church.
(voice-over): In the wake of former Boston area priest John Geoghan being convicted of indecent assault, still facing rape charges. The archdiocese of Boston turned over to local district attorneys names of dozens of other past and present priests with histories of pedophilia.
Public pulse-takers, like talk radio hosts, say as Catholics search for reasons why, the issues of priestly marriage and celibacy keep coming up.
MARGERY EAGAN, TALK RADIO HOST: For regular, run-of-the-mill, in the pews Catholics, what are you supposed to do about this?
DELANEY: Former priest, now psychologist Richard Sipe doesn't believe celibacy in itself leads to pedophilea. A tradition of secrecy concerning priests and sex, though, he says, creates a secure atmosphere for pedophiles.
RICHARD SIPE, PSYCHOLOGIST: The denial, to avoid scandal, has become the greatest source of scandal in the church itself.
DELANEY: The Catholic Archdiocese of Boston acknowledges mistakes over its handling of pedophile priests. Boston's arch bishop, Bernard Cardinal Laws, now announced a tough new zero tolerance policy toward pedophilia. Father Ingalls, though, says what is needed as much, greater openness in general towards sexuality, or, he believes, pedophiles could continue to exploit the church's shadows.
A former close friend of Father Ingalls at seminary and for many years afterward, was Reverend James Porter, convicted and jailed in the early 1990's of molesting 28 children in the 1960's.
INGALLS: I've taken walks with him. Played cards with him. Never have I ever had an inkling that he was a pedophile. Never.
DELANEY: 40 years ago, Vatican II praised the joy and fulfillment of sexuality in marriage, and currently at least 100 married converts to Catholicism, former Protestant ministers, are officially sanctioned Catholic priests. But the Catholic church says unmarried priests must remain unmarried, as a sign of the priest's commitment to be free to serve God and his people.
Still, Father Ron Ingalls asks why the joy and fulfillment and insight he found in marriage should disqualify him.
Bill Delaney, CNN, Boston.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ZAHN: So, should the Catholic Church change its code of celibacy? Joining us now from San Diego, Richard Sipe, a retired priest, and Bishop Joseph Galante, the bishop of Dallas, Texas.
Welcome, gentlemen. Delighted to have both of you with us this morning.
SIPE: Good morning.
JOSEPH GALANTE, BISHOP OF DALLAS, TEXAS: Good morning.
ZAHN: Bishop Galante, has the time come for the Catholic Church to change its stand on celibacy?
GALANTE: No, I don't believe so. What I do believe is that we need to grow in our presentation, particularly for candidates for the priesthood, and for the faithful in general, to understand the meaning of celibacy. Celibacy should not be looked upon as a negation of something, but rather it is a positive response to every human being's call to be loving.
ZAHN: But Bishop, you have also said while celibacy is a good ideal, you also recognize that, in fact, priests are human beings, and they have the same kind of urges that all human being do. How do you reconcile those two thoughts?
GALANTE: Well, I reconcile that by saying that every human being is a sexual being, either male or female, but that every human being is called to exercise self-control. In marriage, the spouses certainly have -- have to exercise self-control with regards to other than their spouses. The celibate priest, who is called to the gift of celibacy, also has to exercise the same kinds of self-control that others are called upon. All of life require -- and all of loving, especially, requires sacrifices, giving up of one's own self desires and concerns.
ZAHN: Mr. Sipe, do you think, having been a retired priest, that it is realistic to expect priests to remain celibate their whole lives.
SIPE: Well, the fact is that many priests do not remain celibate. Celibacy is a tremendously high ideal, and a great service to religion, if it is practiced. The problem is not celibacy. The problem is the fact that celibacy is not practiced by many people. For instance, in the current controversy, celibacy does not cause pedophilia. However, 6 percent of priests do get involved with minors. That is non-celibate behavior. The whole question has to be opened for discussion, and that's the problem, that it can't be discussed, that the whole area of sexuality in which the church is losing credibility among the faithful, is damaged because it can't be discussed. Should there be married priests? There are many priests who would love to both be married and to be priests. I'm not one of them, but there are many out there. If marriage were open to the priesthood, about four times as many people, men, would go into the priesthood. It would be a ground-breaking change for the church. But it's one that is possible. And it should be discussed, and should be opened up, and not be handled in this way, yes or no, absolutely. But would it improve pastoral care? Yes. I think it is in the destiny of the church to open the church to the ordination of women, to the ordination of married priests, but it will change the whole structure of the church, I believe for the better.
ZAHN: Bishop Galante...
GALANTE: Yes.
ZAHN: Do you concede anything of what Mr. Sipe is saying here this morning, that at least the Catholic Church needs to confront these very tough issues and if they do, does it shake the very foundations of the church?
GALANTE: If I may say, on several levels, first of all, we do confront sexuality. One of the criticisms we get sometimes is we talk too much about sexuality, but we don't. I happen to live at seminary here in Dallas. In all formation for priesthood, there is, certainly today, a thorough reflection on, discussion of sexuality, of what humanity is. Grace builds our nature. We have always taught that, and we are all sexual beings.
That doesn't mean that our sexuality must always be expressed through our genitality (ph). That's a difference, if you will. We are sexual beings, and we do discuss it, we do look to integrate into men (ph). Often times, a major problem, I would say, is psycho-sexual development, which is a human problem and concern that is not limited just to priests. I think the gift of celibacy is rooted in one's relationship with Jesus, and also one's relationship with the people. But if there is not a maturing in this, both spiritually, and psychological, and psychosexually, then we have problems. But I don't --
ZAHN: All right. Sorry, sorry. I didn't mean to interrupt you, bishop.
GALANTE: I was going to say -- I was going to say, there's also, in the Catholic Church in the East -- in Eastern Europe, there's been a long tradition of ordaining married men to priesthood, along with having celibate, and most of the bishops are celibates, so the church has a long tradition of facing and living in that reality of -- in the one hand, a married priesthood in the Eastern church. In the Western church, the discipline developed over the centuries, and the Western church, the Latin church, has continued, with exceptions, as was mentioned in the earlier piece of former Protestant ministers, Anglican priests, who have become ordained priests in the Roman Catholic Church, but I think we have not, contrary to what popular opinion is, we have not shied away from -- from a dialogue, from a reflection, from a consideration and, also, from continuing formation in the integration of a man's sexuality into his whole being.
ZAHN: All right. Bishop Galante, we're going to have to leave the debate there this morning. Richard Sipe, always good to see you, and we would love to have both of you come back as we continue to cover this controversy.
GALANTE: I'd be delighted to. Thank you. I'd be delighted.
SIPE: Thank you.
ZAHN: Thank you, for both of your joining us this morning.
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