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American Morning

Sound Off: Should Truth be a Casualty of the War on Terrorism?

Aired February 20, 2002 - 08:33   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: Time to move on to this morning's sound off. You may remember that Donald Rumsfeld in September assured reporters that they could rely on the Pentagon to tell them the truth.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD RUMSFELD, U.S. DEFENSE SECRETARY: I cannot imagine a situation. I don't recall that I've ever lied to the press. I don't intend to, and it seems to me that there will not be reason for it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ZAHN: Well guess what, now comes word that the Pentagon through its newly established Office of Strategic Influence is considering a plan to provide false information to the foreign press as a way to influence public opinion around the world. Should truth become a casualty of the war on terrorism?

Joining us now from Washington, Democratic political strategist Bob Beckel

Good morning, Bob.

BOB BECKEL, DEMOCRATIC POLITICAL STRATEGIST: Good morning, Paula.

ZAHN: Also with us this morning, his favorite sparring partner, Cliff May, President of the Foundation for the Defense of Democracy.

It's good to see you as well, Cliff.

CLIFF MAY, PRESIDENT, FOUNDATION FOR THE DEFENSE OF DEMOCRACY: Good morning, Paula.

ZAHN: All right, since you were introduced second, Cliff, you get to start off this morning and react to what Maureen Dowd wrote in the "New York Times" about this policy. She says our government shouldn't need to lie to justify its increasingly broad and intricate war against terrorism. And she goes on to say, besides, there's enough really bad stuff about the bad guys. Does she have a point here?

MAY: Yes, Maureen Dowd does have a point. I think Mark Twain's advice here is good: always tell the truth, there's less to remember. That said, I don't think the "New York Times" piece is necessarily accurate. I -- my sources tell me they got a little bit manipulated by bureaucrats in-fighting for turf in the Pentagon. I think look nobody can (UNINTELLIGIBLE)...

ZAHN: Wait a minute, because I'm not following -- I'm not following that, Cliff, what do you mean?

MAY: Look, that they're setting up a new office and so some others are -- don't want that office to be set up and they don't want their authority taken away so they're leaking stuff. That's the way this came out, this was not an announcement. What I'm told is that no disinformation campaign is being planned.

That said, let's be realistic about war. In World War II, we didn't want Hitler to know when D-Day was going to occur or where we were going to land. That kind of disinformation is justifiable and it saves lives, but that's about the only kind you should use. Other than that, you should tell the truth.

Frankly, government bureaucrats, government propaganda are not sophisticated enough to do disinformation well. If they could, you wouldn't be seeing it announced on the front page of the "New York Times." Really what they should be doing, and I would charge a lot in the private sector for this advice, let Bush be Bush, drive a very simple message to the world and a truthful message which is that America is a nation that defends its friends and defeats and destroys its enemies. You decide which camp you're going to be in. And by the way, the friends we've defended in recent years include Islamic societies in Afghanistan, Bosnia, Kosovo, Somalia and other places. That's it.

ZAHN: All right.

MAY: Repeat it often, and that should be our truthful message.

ZAHN: All right. Bob, you got a lot to react to. First of all, it's news to us that this disinformation campaign is not being planned. But first, react to what Cliff said that he thinks that the only time it's justified to not tell the truth are in cases where you don't want to tip off the enemy where you're going to strike. Do you -- do you agree with him on that note?

BECKEL: Yes, that's about it. I mean outside of that, that was a full twisting double circle gainer dive what he just -- Cliff went through on that one. I mean you can spin a lot of things, Cliff, but that was a good try. I'll give you that, good try.

I mean look, the idea -- the idea, first of all, that you're dealing with the Pentagon that's been suspect about their press relations since the Gulf War, particularly, No. 1. No. 2, it is justified if you're up against Adolf Hitler and the world is at war, but we're talking about now fighting at least now only in Afghanistan.

I mean I had a British reporter friend of mine say to me last night, he said, Bob, I never believe these guys anyway. Now what do you expect me to do after this? I mean it is -- it is probably the most -- the whole idea of (UNINTELLIGIBLE) office, I mean who are we kidding? It's just -- it's ridiculous. And when Cliff says let Bush be Bush, frankly this sounds just like Bush to me.

MAY: I don't (ph) -- no, Bush is -- Bush is simple and clear in his message and that's what I think he should be and will be. And I think -- I think the story does do damage, on that I agree with you, Bob, but I also don't think it's for real. I don't that anybody -- there is -- there is no point in this kind of disinformation campaign, and I don't believe it is genuinely contemplated.

BECKEL: Well I mean but...

ZAHN: Bob, do you disagree with that? I mean Cliff seems to have evidence that this is not going to happen but every single report we've seen over the last several days basically suggests it will happen. What do you think, Bob?

BECKEL: Well I don't want...

ZAHN: Do you think this was a story leaked to the "New York Times" to hurt -- to you know to -- because of some power play within the White House?

BECKEL: I don't know. It's an awfully good story. I mean got -- far be it for me to question Cliff's sources, however right they may be, but the point is it doesn't matter now, does it? I mean they've said it. They're scrambling around trying to cover it -- cover it up and say different things to "The Wall Street Journal" now and this and that. Nobody's going to believe them after this.

Who in their right mind, whether they have an office or not, they canned the whole idea, who's going to take their word on anything now and that's the problem? Once you start down this road what are you going to say, OK, we were going to lie but now we've decided not to lie so we're going to tell you the truth? You're out there, you're a reporter, you listen to these people tell you something, what are you going to think, you know?

MAY: In a sense I have to agree with Bob, your credibility is the -- is the coin of the realm and you should spend it very wisely. And look, CNN could get a tremendous audience tomorrow by announcing they had exclusive coverage of a martian landing. If it turned out that martian landing didn't happen, on Thursday and Friday you wouldn't have such a great audience anymore. It's very important that the -- that the Pentagon does tell the truth, but there will be occasions, let's keep this in mind, when disinformation is called for. Those are very, very few situations in which you want to do that.

BECKEL: You know, Cliff, I may after listening to this explanation of yours, it made me think the martians landed this morning, but -- and we get a good audience anyway. But the point -- the point is you...

ZAHN: We don't need martians, Bob,...

BECKEL: I mean there's no way (ph)... ZAHN: ... we've got you and Cliff.

BECKEL: Yes, well I know which is -- well let's not go there too far.

But you know the point is still -- I still get back to this point that the Pentagon did not have much credibility around the world anyway. And now the CIA, by the way, is much more involved in this war and more openly so than we've seen ever, and so the idea that somehow there's going to be a way to talk your way out of this and get people to believe you is just wrong. I mean it's -- you know it's like, well never mind,...

MAY: Yes.

BECKEL: ... I was going to say something about my ex-wife but I won't say it. It's a -- I'm telling you...

MAY: Talk about (ph) (UNINTELLIGIBLE).

BECKEL: I'm telling you, this administration is putting it -- they keep talking about different places they're going to invade, not invade, and then somebody says something, they back off. It may well be turf battles, I'm sure it probably is, but turf battles like this are what cause people to make bad decisions like a disinformation campaign...

MAY: Basically (ph)...

BECKEL: ... and get Cliff to try to explain it.

ZAHN: You get the final word, Cliff.

MAY: No, yes, the truth is our friend. We should be telling the truth. For example, we went into Afghanistan, not because we want resources or land, we went there to stop terrorists and liberate the people. The only time you want disinformation is if you're going to attack Tora Bora tomorrow, you'd like people to think you're not going to do that. That's the only possible usefulness for this. And yes, the people who leaked this did a lot of -- a lot of damage and they should be slapped hard.

ZAHN: All right, Cliff May, Bob Beckel, for the record, we know nothing about any martian landing expected later today.

BECKEL: Oh that's right, I forgot, sorry about that.

MAY: (UNINTELLIGIBLE).

ZAHN: (UNINTELLIGIBLE), all right, all right.

BECKEL: OK.

ZAHN: See you later in the week.

BECKEL: Thanks, Paula. MAY: All right.

ZAHN: So, Jack, you know remember the line from "Alice In Wonderland," it gets, what is it, curiouser and more curiouser every day?

JACK CAFFERTY, CNN ANCHOR: Curiouser and curiouser, yes.

ZAHN: So you know this Office of Strategic Influence, what is it anyway?

CAFFERTY: I don't (ph) -- I don't know.

ZAHN: We're going to have to figure that -- I mean that was interesting, Cliff May absolutely says...

CAFFERTY: But the point -- the point that one of them made that said all right, we've decided not going to do this. Well who's going to believe that now?

ZAHN: Yes.

CAFFERTY: It's out there, you know.

ZAHN: Whether it was leaked or not,...

CAFFERTY: Yes.

ZAHN: ... it's out there for public consumption.

CAFFERTY: You mean the martians are landing?

All right.

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