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CNN SATURDAY
Interview With Rick Allen, Dr. Emile Hiesiger
Aired February 23, 2002 - 18:15 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
CATHERINE CALLAWAY, CNN ANCHOR: Improper use of America's top selling narcotic painkiller, Oxycontin, is gaining some national attention. And this past week, a Florida doctor was convicted of manslaughter for prescribing the medication to four patients who eventually overdosed. Dr. James Graves now facing up to 30 years in prison.
And in Missouri, an arrest warrant has been issued for a man accused of receiving Oxycontin under the state's Medicaid program. Police say that Clinton Settles (ph) then sold the pills on the street. Official documents indicate that he received the painkiller prescription from Dr. Stephen Segall, who denies knowing of any wrongdoing.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DR. STEPHEN SEGALL, PRESCRIBED OXYCONTIN: We are not psychic. And we don't really know exactly where the medications go.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CALLAWAY: We're going to take an in-depth look at this drug for a few minutes here. We are going to start by taking a look at the street value of it, and on the phone with us now is Rick Allen. He is the deputy director of the Georgia Drugs and Narcotic Agency here in Atlanta. Rick, thanks for being with us today.
RICK ALLEN, GA DRUGS & NARCOTICS AGENCY: You're welcome.
CALLAWAY: First tell me, you know, where are you seeing this drug used the most? I know it's been called the hillbilly drug, but why?
ALLEN: I believe it started up in Appalachia, up in West Virginia, the eastern part of Kentucky and then it sort of spread nationwide from there.
CALLAWAY: Is it being used more in the rural areas than the heavily populated areas?
ALLEN: Yes, it started out in the rural areas, but now here in Atlanta we've seen it coming to Atlanta, and it's become a big problem here.
CALLAWAY: Rick, how big a problem is this?
ALLEN: It's as big a problem as we've seen probably in the last 20, 25 years.
CALLAWAY: And some of the people that were using drugs like Diloted (ph) are turning to Oxycontin, right?
ALLEN: Right. We see the old timers that would pay $65, $85 for a tablet of Diloted (ph) now take Oxycontin over Diloted (ph) anytime.
CALLAWAY: Why do they like it so much?
ALLEN: They get a better high. They say it's a cleaner high. And they just like it a lot better.
CALLAWAY: What about young people?
ALLEN: Young people are turning toward it. We don't believe they really know what they're getting. The equivalent of taking maybe eight to 16 of Percodan or percastetic (ph) at one time, and they crush it up or snort it, or they crush it up and inject it. A young person injecting, say, eight Percodan, it's going to kill them.
CALLAWAY: And it has indeed killed them, hasn't it?
ALLEN: It has indeed killed them.
CALLAWAY: In Georgia, are you seeing it running rampant in the city now?
ALLEN: Yes. In Atlanta, it's rampant in the city. We're seeing it everywhere from the small town of Georgia to all over the Atlanta area.
CALLAWAY: Let me ask you quickly before I leave you. You did say that you could take one Oxycontin and you would get the same high when you crush it up and inhale it or inject it as you would if you used how many Percodan?
ALLEN: Yes, 40 milligram Oxycontin is equivalent to eight Percodan, or 80 milligrams of Oxycontin is equivalent to 16 Percodan.
CALLAWAY: That's a strong drug.
ALLEN: It is.
CALLAWAY: And do you think this is going to continue to get out of hand?
ALLEN: We're hoping to get a handle on it, but we're doing what we can.
CALLAWAY: All right. Rick Allen, thank you very much for giving us an idea on how popular this drug is.
ALLEN: You're very welcome. CALLAWAY: And we have more information on this medication and its uses. Let's bring in Dr. Emile Hiesiger -- excuse me, it's Hiesiger. I apologize for mispronouncing your name. You are a neurologist at New York University. You're author of a book called "Your Pain is Real." There's the book there. Thank you, doctor, for joining us.
DR. EMILE HIESIGER, NEUROLOGIST, NYU: Thank you for having me.
CALLAWAY: You heard Rick Allen say how popular this drug is, but it has to have, you know, some reasons for being on the market. And indeed, there's some use for this drug for people who are indeed in chronic pain.
HIESIGER: This is a very important drug. It's not the only one of its type, but it's a long-acting drug that lasts eight to 12 hours. If you -- the gentlemen before used the word Percodan. Percadon lasts four hours. You take a pill like that, it takes 45 minutes to work, and it wears off in about four hours. If you have chronic pain and you need some form of narcotic to get through the day, you need to take something that covers the entire day. Imagine if you took Percodan at night -- you'd have to wake up in four hours and take another one, wait 45 minutes for it to work.
And this would be sort of a seesaw arrangement of pain relief and wearing off of the drug. Oxycontin gives you an eight to 12 hour period of pain relief, very smoothly. So it definitely has a very important role in the treatment of chronic pain.
CALLAWAY: Doctor, I know there's other long-lasting drugs out there. Why do you think this one is being abused so much?
HIESIGER: I'm not sure. The same company that makes Oxycontin 10 years ago or over 10 years ago came out with a similar drug, which was derived from morphine, a sister drug to the narcotic in Oxycontin. And that was not abused, although to some extent that is also beginning to be abused. It's not clear to me why Oxycontin has become such a favorite today. It's not clear at all.
CALLAWAY: Perhaps it's just easier to get. The company is making more than $1 billion a year on this drug alone.
HIESIGER: More narcotics are being used in this country for the treatment of pain. But please understand that pain still, chronic pain is still under-treated, and narcotics are the most effective and, in the long term, the safest drugs for the treatment of someone who has chronic debilitating pain.
CALLAWAY: Would you...
HIESIGER: Yes, more narcotics definitely are being used for the treatment of pain, as well they should. I think the problem with this Oxycontin issue is that drugs that should be used for the treatment of pain should continue to be used for the treatment of pain. They should not be diverted and the pill should not be bastardized, that is crushed up, and injected for the purposes of getting high. CALLAWAY: Well, something has to be done if it's as big a problem as we've heard Rick Allen say. There's some talk about it being taken off the market.
HIESIGER: Well, that would do close to 15 million Americans a tremendous disservice. There are about 15 million people in this country that need that kind of medication. People with chronic pain who don't have cancer. There is a group of people that have cancer that very much need these kinds of drugs.
And unfortunately, if you take Oxycontin off the market, you will do these people a tremendous disservice. And please understand that by taking this off the market you will not solve the problem of addiction, because the same people that use Oxycontin have used other drugs in the past, such as Valium, have use Diloted (ph), as you heard earlier. Are you going to take all those drugs off the market as well?
CALLAWAY: Yeah, an abuser is going to find a way to get high no matter what.
HIESIGER: That's quite correct. This is a law enforcement problem and it's a social problem. I think we really should not be mixing apples and oranges. The people that need the narcotic are not the ones that abuse it. There are people on the street or in small towns that certainly do abuse this drug, and they are the ones that have to be dealt with. To take the drug away from the pain patients that need it is a totally inappropriate and outrageous suggestion.
CALLAWAY: Dr. Emile Hiesiger, thank you so much for joining us today. I'm sorry you're having so much trouble with that IFB. We apologize for that.
HIESIGER: Oh, that's all right. Thank you very much for having me.
CALLAWAY: Thank you.
HIESIGER: Thank you.
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