Return to Transcripts main page
American Morning
'New York Times': No Evidence Bin Laden Got Nuclear Ingredients
Aired February 26, 2002 - 07:02 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: We are going to move on to the latest on Osama bin Laden now. The U.S. has been saying for months that Osama bin Laden wanted to obtain the ingredients to make nuclear devices. But this morning, "The New York Times" reports that U.S. officials now say there is no evidence bin Laden got those ingredients, and the report goes on to say that bin Laden may have been duped into thinking he was actually buying nuclear material.
Let's turn now to one of the experts on weapons of mass destruction, Richard Butler, our ambassador-in-residence -- good morning.
RICHARD BUTLER, FORMER U.N. CHIEF WEAPONS INSPECTOR: Good morning, Paula.
ZAHN: I'll tell you, this story brought a great delight to many this morning.
BUTLER: I am sure.
ZAHN: Because it has now been proven that Osama bin Laden got duped. What do we know?
BUTLER: Paula, we're only a couple of years into the 21st century, but this guy already looks like the chump of the century. It's truly...
ZAHN: Good.
BUTLER: Absolutely. It is a belly laugh. Remember that videotape, where he was talking with some other sheikh, and he was explaining what happened on September 11, the World Trade Center events, not the Pentagon, where the planes flew into the two towers. And he was posing as some kind of scientist or engineer saying, it would work like this with the fuel and the velocity and so on, you know, blah, blah, blah. Osama the scientist. Well, Osama the scientist has been exposed as a complete fool.
He sought to get radioactive materials on the black market. God knows what he paid for these canisters, but what we now know is that he got cans -- canisters, which had skull and crossbones crudely painted on them, not even the internationals symbols of radiation, which sent a Geiger counter off presumably. Why? Because they had been dipped in low-grade medical waste or something like that.
The metal in the cans was so thin, not the lead that they would normally be made of. Whoever had handled those canisters had they had real nuclear grade materials in them would have been fried. And this guy bought this stuff presumably in the belief that it could help him make nuclear weapons.
ZAHN: So that's literally all there was?
BUTLER: It's like buying the Brooklyn Bridge, you know. It's ridiculous.
ZAHN: So it was -- all it was, it was dipped in this medical waste, and that's what set the Geiger counter off.
BUTLER: That's right.
ZAHN: So presumably when they purchased this stuff, they tested it, and all these little...
BUTLER: I mean...
ZAHN: ... sirens went off.
BUTLER: Yes, and they said we now have what we have been looking for. It boggles the imagination to think of these guys sitting around in their cave. And remember, CNN actually, I think Christiane Amanpour, found some drawings in a building in Kabul, where they had rather crude drawings of a nuclear device and so on. So you've got to imagine this. Here are these guys in their medieval clothing and their long beards sitting around with these canisters saying, we will now make the atomic bomb. And so, Paula, this is the biggest belly laugh I have heard for a long time.
ZAHN: So...
BUTLER: And we should be grateful...
(CROSSTALK)
ZAHN: Well, absolutely. So while we laugh at the ludicrousness of this all...
BUTLER: Yes.
ZAHN: ... the fact remains you can't rule out the possibility, though, that the al Qaeda network somewhere in its arsenals has some radioactive material.
BUTLER: That's right. That's right. To, unfortunately, leave the joke and get serious for a minute, yes, you can't rule that out. And indeed, what this tells us yet again is that there is a black market network trying to sell this stuff, and in particular, based in Russia. It is verified that nuclear weapons grade materials have been stolen and have disappeared in Russia, and presumably these are the guys who sold Osama his can of waste. ZAHN: But yet another study comes out showing the vulnerability of Russian nuclear power plants...
BUTLER: That's right.
ZAHN: ... and the vulnerability of their supply networks. How concerned should the United States be about that?
BUTLER: Well, the director of Central Intelligence, George Tenet, has said we should be very concerned about it, and I agree with him. And there is also in the background the possibility that some fully fabricated small nuclear weapons have disappeared and been offered for sale on the black market.
There is that old saying, "caveat emptor: buyer beware." I mean, people should obviously be aware of these sales, but it is a serious matter. And in that context, a very interesting report today that Russia is being brought closer into NATO, not the actual final decision-making process. That wouldn't make sense, as NATO is basically an alliance to help, among other things, defend against the Russians. But to bring them in in consultation on issues like terrorism, safety of nuclear materials and so on, and that's a pretty good direction.
ZAHN: And on relations with Iraq.
BUTLER: Yes.
ZAHN: That there is a new story that some Iraqi officials are expected to come here...
(CROSSTALK)
BUTLER: Exactly. Well, you know, there is the old saying, "the Russians are coming," as we were just talking about the Russians.
ZAHN: Now it's the Iraqis are coming.
BUTLER: Next week it's the Iraqis are coming to New York next week.
ZAHN: And what do they want, pray tell?
BUTLER: Well, I think they are trying to put off the evil day, Paula. They are going to come here, and they now indicate that they will be prepared to talk about the resumption of arms control inspections in Iraq.
ZAHN: Oh you're not -- you're holding your breath about that one, are you?
BUTLER: No, I'm not. Presumably so that they can say, hey, we are cooperating, so to the U.S., you know, don't come and bomb us or seek to remove Saddam. The crucial acid test, to use the scientific term, will be what kind of inspections? Will they be real, or will we have the same old roundabout that we had three years ago. ZAHN: Which you lived through...
BUTLER: Indeed. We will see.
ZAHN: ... as you were in charge of that whole program. All right, Richard Butler, thanks for bringing us up to date on the Russians and the Iraqis and Osama bin Laden and...
BUTLER: And all that terrific stuff. But what...
ZAHN: I have never seen such glean in your eyes, when you talked about Osama bin Laden getting duped.
BUTLER: Oh, what a (UNINTELLIGIBLE). Yes.
ZAHN: All right.
BUTLER: OK.
ZAHN: Thanks, Ambassador -- see you tomorrow morning.
BUTLER: See you.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com.
