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CNN Wolf Blitzer Reports

U.S. Meets Stiff Resistance; Interview with Hosni Mubarak; Bloody Violence in the Middle East

Aired March 04, 2002 - 19:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
WOLF BLITZER, CNN HOST: Tonight on WOLF BLITZER REPORTS, heavy U.S. casualties as the biggest offensive of the war runs into stiff resistance.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD RUMSFELD, U.S. SECRETARY OF DEFENSE: They are dug in, they're well armed and their fighting fiercely.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: Is al Qaeda back on its feet? We'll go live to the Pentagon and the frontlines in Afghanistan.

And in the Middle East, a furious crescendo of violence. Bloody Palestinian attacks draw crushing Israeli response. I'll speak with Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak, who comes forward with his own peace initiative.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HOSNI MUBARAK, EGYPTIAN PRESIDENT: But to give the impression to both parts, to the people on both sides -- to the people in Arab in world -- that there is a window of hope.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: Good evening, I'm Wolf Blitzer reporting tonight from Washington. There was dramatic evidence today that the war in Afghanistan is far from over. At this moment, U.S. troops remain engaged in what's become their most deadly battle since the U.S. launched air strikes back in October. And the indications are this fight is far from over.

CNN's military affairs correspondent Jamie McIntyre has been keeping track of all of these developments. He joins us now live from the Pentagon -- Jamie.

JAMIE MCINTYRE, CNN MILITARY AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, the highest combat death toll of the war so far came when U.S. forces tried to insert a reconnaissance team into an area that was a hornets' nest of al Qaeda forces, armed with rocket-propelled grenades and small arms fire. The helicopter was returning to a site where earlier in the day it was believed another soldier was killed when a helicopter took a shot from a rocket-propelled grenade, and it was believed he fell out of the helicopter. That helicopter was able to limp away to safety, and it was only after they landed it was discovered apparently that one of the crew was missing.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

GEN. TOMMY FRANKS, COMMANDER, U.S. CENTRAL COMMAND: The helicopter was in fact struck, but was still flyable. As the pilot lifted the helicopter off, I believe one crew member may have fallen from the helicopter. I do not believe that was recognized immediately.

MCINTYRE (voice-over): Shortly thereafter, U.S. troops secured the area and mounted a successful rescue of the survivors. But more casualties are expected, especially with U.S. Apache gun ships and A- 10 assault planes conducting risky low level attacks.

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I think most Americans, and I hope these parents and loved ones understand the cause is important, and the cause is just.

MCINTYRE: The four-star general in charge says the combat deaths are to be expected as the war enters a more dangerous phase, in which air power alone can't get the job done.

FRANKS: The sure way to do -- work against the enemy is to put people on the ground. And that's what we've done in this case.

MCINTYRE: The mission in the snowy mountains has been dubbed Operation Anaconda, after the tropical snake that kills its prey by suffocating it in its coils. Some 2,000 troops, including more than 1,000 U.S., 800 Afghan and 200 coalition forces have surrounded a 60 to 70 square mile area, and have killed as many as half of the 400 or so al Qaeda troops believe holed up there in small groups.

RUMSFELD: They're obviously well organized. They're dug in, they're well armed and they're fighting fiercely. We knew they would resist strongly and anticipated a fierce fight.

GEN. RICHARD MYERS, JOINT CHIEFS CHAIRMAN: We knew that the al Qaeda and their supporters would have two choices, to run or stay and fight. It seems they have chosen to stay and to fight to the last, and we hope to accommodate them.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MCINTYRE: Asked if U.S. military commanders were caught off guard by the ferocity of the al Qaeda resistance, senior Pentagon officials insisted to CNN that wasn't the case. But two senior officials, including the chairman of the joint chiefs, made a point of saying it would be inappropriate to second-guess the commander in the field, especially after the senior leaders had been fully briefed and signed off on the plan --Wolf. BLITZER: Jamie McIntyre at the Pentagon. Thanks very much.

The battle is being fought high up in the mountains, and in the sky above our Nic Robertson joins us now by phone from Ghanzi, near the frontlines in eastern Afghanistan. Nic, give us the scene setting -- what's going on from your vantage point?

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, Through the night we've been able to hear aircraft flying what sounds like reconnaissance missions overhead, coming very low over this city. We're about 50 miles from the frontline, and across the high mountain plains here, about 7,000 feet up. We could see yesterday, just before nightfall, U.S. bombers and AWACS aircraft on missions towards the mountains, just south of Gardez where the offensive is under way. We could see plumes of smoke rising up from those mountains, and from a number of sorties, we could see flown during the day as we travelled into this region, it was clear there was an -- a heavy and very busy offensive operation going on.

And certainly in this area, as well, the situation here is much more tense than it has been in recent weeks. And certainly regional leaders are very cautious about what's going to happen here in the coming weeks -- Wolf.

BLITZER: From your understanding of the situation, Nic, how strong was the al Qaeda presence believed to be in this area before this latest U.S. military offensive?

ROBERTSON: Well, figures according to local officials go, as high as 5,000. And I talked to one regional political leader here last night, he told me that he thought perhaps the figures were even higher than 5,000. It is, of course, impossible at this time to get an accurate estimate. The estimates that there are pockets rather than large groups all in one area is perhaps a more accurate assessment.

This regional politician I talked to said in his province, Ghanzi Province, where we are now he said there are groups of al Qaeda that are forming in his province. He is concerned about it. He said along with the CIA, who's been conducting reconnaissance and surveillance missions over the last three weeks on those al Qaeda elements.

He also said that Australian special forces had been in the region with his fighters, as well, to (UNINTELLIGIBLE) the situation on the ground. And he said he was expecting in the coming days foreign offensive on the al Qaeda in his province, the (UNINTELLIGIBLE), where the current offensive is under way. And he says, the same regional politician says that he is concerned as spring approaches that al Qaeda will start launching guerrilla offenses -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Nic Robertson reporting live from near the frontlines in eastern Afghanistan. Thanks very much for that report. And this note, Nic will have a complete report on all of today's developments, that's coming up at the top of the hour 8:00 Eastern, "LIVE FROM AFGHANISTAN," here on CNN. Turning now to the situation in the Middle East, where there's been a series of devastating Palestinian attacks and a relentless response from Israel. More and more of the innocent are being caught in the middle.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

(voice-over): A weekend of bloodshed and heartbreak spilled into Monday in Israel and the Palestinian territories. As usual, combatants on both sides blamed each other. But between them, a disturbing number of casualties among civilians, including several children.

Israeli forces assaulted Palestinian targets in three refugee camps Monday, two in the West Bank, one in Gaza. At least 16 Palestinians were killed on Monday alone. The Israeli military apologized for one incident near Ramallah, where Israeli tanks shelled two cars, carrying a woman and her five children. All of them died. The target had been the woman's husband, a Hamas leader, who was not with his family. All of this was in retaliation for a series of Palestinian attacks over the weekend, which left at least 22 Israelis dead. Those casualties included an entire family of four, killed when a suicide bomber struck outside a Jerusalem synagogue at the end of the sabbath.

And late Monday, Israeli warplanes struck Palestinian security facilities in Bethlehem. Israeli missiles later hit Yasser Arafat's offices in Gaza, and near his compound in Ramallah, but he was not injured.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

One of the key players in the Middle East is the Egyptian president, Hosni Mubarak. He meets tomorrow with President Bush at the White House. Earlier today, I sat down with President Mubarak at Blair House, the official U.S. residence for foreign guests, right across the street from the White House. I began by asking him about Saudi Crown Prince Abdullah's recently floated peace plan, and why the Egyptian leader doesn't come forward with a plan of his own to end the violence.

MUBARAK: I suppose the peace initiative of Crown Prince Abdullah is not -- it is in context of the whole, of the resolutions have been mentioned before. We have so many proposals on the table, we don't need much more proposals.

BLITZER: But you are in a unique position. Egypt is the largest of all of the Arab countries, and you have a peace treaty with Israel. And you have good relations with the Palestinians. Why not try --

MUBARAK: And we have very good relations with the Saudis, also, at the same time, and good relations with the United States. Any proposal which is on the table is of great benefit. But the point is we have so many proposals, and the plan is well known. The withdrawal of forces, establishing a Palestinian state, normalization of relations with all countries. This is what Crown Prince Abdullah said, confirming what has been mentioned before. It's not a matter of new initiative or third initiative, fourth initiative. We have so many initiatives.

We have to do whatever possible to bring the parts on the table. Delivering initiative is something practical for these two parties to sit down with each other is of no way.

BLITZER: You don't think if you invited the prime minister of Israel and the president of the Palestinian Authority to sit down with you, and to try to get the end of violence, that would have an impact?

MUBARAK: Look, I made this initiative, and I asked the prime minister of Israel to come to Sharm el-Sheikh (ph) at that time, after the (UNINTELLIGIBLE) in our country. On condition that I could invite Arafat, not to solve the problem but to give impression to both parties, to the people on both sides, to the people in the Arab world that there is a window of hope, we have to work on it. We will discuss some points so as to make that atmosphere that much far better. Then after that, they can continue discussions on the level of ministers or lower than ministers, but it's a matter of good impression or hope to the public opinion in Israeli and in the Palestinian.

BLITZER: But do you have confidence in both Prime Minister Sharon and Palestinian President Arafat, that they can make the tough decisions that will get the peace process going again?

MUBARAK: It is difficult to say that. From the side of Arafat, we can push him, but I don't know Mr. Sharon's going to respond to that or not.

BLITZER: Do you ever talk to him?

MUBARAK: I had two times telephone calls, once after has been elected, he phoned me, just maybe one minute. The last contact was after the crown prince initiative. He had the long talk with me on the telephone, and I told him, after I sent him a message to come to Sharm el-Sheikh. He told me I would like to sit with you bilaterally. I told him I have no problem with you, there's no problem between Egypt and Israel. The main problem is the Palestinian problem and the violence which is going on. Your people are effected, all the Palestinians are effected, let us give the people some hope that peace could prevail. That's my intention, and that I'm -- to ask Arafat and Sharon to come and sit.

We're not going to solve all the problems in one meeting, just as a change, to change the atmosphere. To see the people, that both are sitting with each other. They have never met with each other. Then after that, with the help of the United States, I think it could move forward. He apologized, but he asked me to arrange a second meeting with Crown Prince Abdullah to understand for him the initiative. I know it is a very difficult question. So I told him all right, I'm going to just pass by this message.

BLITZER: Did you send that message to Crown Prince Abdullah?

MUBARAK: Yes, I sent the message.

BLITZER: What did he say?

MUBARAK: I sent the message to Crown Prince Abdullah.

BLITZER: What was his response?

MUBARAK: I just said that Sharon said so and so. But I don't think that Crown Prince Abdullah, the country with the holy places will be able to meet with Sharon unless there is peace.

BLITZER: As you know, the secretary of state of the United States, Colin Powell, and the president of the United States, George W. Bush, say the primary responsibility right now is on Yasser Arafat to stop the terrorism against Israeli civilians, and then they will get more actively involved, but they say Arafat must take the first step.

MUBARAK: Look, with all of my respect to President George Bush, he's a friend; Colin Powell; who I know him before, since the Gulf War; I could tell you if Arafat can control some of his people, he's not -- he's unable to control those who are making the suicide bombs. These suicide bombers are from people who are desperate in their life.

BLITZER: So there's nothing Arafat can do?

MUBARAK: No, he can do -- he can control some of his people, but he can not control others. I would imagine I'm sitting surrounded by tanks in my village, I can not send my children to school, I can not do that, I can not move. What do you expect me to do? I'm not earning money.

BLITZER: But you can't blame the Israelis for responding in the face of these suicide attacks.

MUBARAK: Who am I going to blame?

BLITZER: Well, I'm asking you.

MUBARAK: No, you told me that you can not blame the Israelis.

BLITZER: No. You would do...

MUBARAK: Who can I blame?

BLITZER: ... the same -- you would do the same thing if this were happening in Egypt. Wouldn't you? To fight terrorism?

MUBARAK: I think both parts should sit. That's what they can do -- Not to blame this and to blame that. Come and sit.

BLITZER: Would it be a useful idea, for you, to visit Israel?

MUBARAK: If my visit to Israel could solve this problem, I would have done it before. But the --

(CROSSTALK)

BLITZER: Why haven't you...

MUBARAK: For the sake...

BLITZER: ... gone?

MUBARAK: ... of visiting Israel, for the sake of doing a favor to Sharon, I'm not ready to make favors, unless found something to help the people on both sides. The civilians are being killed without any reason.

BLITZER: What will you tell President Bush when you meet with him tomorrow? About the peace process, what the United States --

MUBARAK: We have to do something. We have to bring -- this is certain -- violence, retaliation, killing, retaliation, it will continue. Everybody is losing, the two parties are losing. The whole area is losing. The United States is losing. So we have to do something, whether we like it or not, we have to bring the two parties on the table. At least force them to come to the table. Let them discuss and we have to help.

BLITZER: As you know, the president of the United States refuses to meet with Arafat.

MUBARAK: That is not the point to meet Arafat or not to meet Arafat, I want to calm the situation in the area first. Then after that I think it would be -- the ground would be laid for a meeting with Arafat.

BLITZER: The Bush administration openly supports what they call regime change in Baghdad, to get rid of Saddam Hussein.

MUBARAK: All right, regime change should be done by the people themselves. I think George Bush, the father, during the war, the Gulf War -- there was a plan, Saddam Hussein. I told him George, take care -- it would be a black spot if you went to Baghdad and killed Saddam Hussein on the hands of American forces there.

BLITZER: How much of a terrorism problem from Islamic fundamentalists, al Qaeda networks, supporters, exist in Egypt right now? Because, as you know, several of the high ranking al Qaeda officials are Egyptians. Mohammed Al Zawarhi.

MUBARAK: You find only Mohammed Al Zawarhi?

BLITZER: Well, Mohammed Atef.

MUBARAK: Tell me about the name of any country in the world who have no fanatics, any country and any religion. It's not only Muslim --

BLITZER: They represent a threat to your government, just as much as they represent a threat to the United States. MUBARAK: We have dealt with these kind of people in our country, and now they're on the fringe of the country now. We are doing much more in the past 20 years just reforming economy, giving chance for young people to work to avoid all this extremists. But these fundamentalists are in so many countries.

Those who commit a crime in our country, they fled away and they want -- given asylum to European countries and in the United States.

BLITZER: Mr. President, thank you so much for joining us. I appreciate it very much.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

And up next, now that federal authorities are in charge of airport security in the United States, they are not pinching pennies. But are they making the skies any safer? Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Welcome back.

New bomb screening machines are on the fast track, as the U.S. government moves to strengthen airport security. Along with those machines, the government also is looking into a new system that was used at the Salt Lake City Olympic Games. CNN's Kathleen Koch has more on the story.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KATHLEEN KOCH, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): They have been the million-dollar quandary in aviation security, machines that screen checked bags for bombs, machines Congress told the government to put in every airport by the end of the year. But the two approved manufacturers couldn't make the 2,200 needed, and it will cost more than $5 billion. Now the government says it's signed agreements with other suppliers.

JOHN MAGAW, TRANSPORTATION SECURITY ADMINISTRATION: We can use some of these other companies, and now these other companies are looking at, you know, how many they can build in a certain period of time.

KOCH: But they don't have much time or money, their entire budget just $2 billion. So the government is also considering cheaper technology, so-called trace detection systems used to check bags during the Olympics. Some lawmakers believe that would meet the December deadline to have explosive detection equipment in all airports.

REP. JIM OBERSTAR (D), MINNESOTA: What I envision is totally in keeping with the law, explosive detection systems, trace detection and enhanced x-ray technology that, taken together, will speed the process of screening checked luggage.

KOCH: Even supporters caution the focus must be not just on getting technology, but making sure it works.

MICHAEL GOLDFARB, FORMER FAA CHIEF OF STAFF: The danger would be to rush technology to meet a congressionally imposed deadline, as opposed to designing technology to protect the public.

KOCH (on camera): Getting the equipment in place come December will mean that for the first time, all checked bags will truly be screened for explosives. Critics say the nest issue: determining better ways to respond to threats once they're identified.

Kathleen Koch, CNN, Washington.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: And up next, the latest U.S. military assault in Afghanistan. The fighting turns deadly for U.S. troops. We'll have an update. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Welcome back.

At least eight U.S. troops have been killed in intense fighting in eastern Afghanistan. That's the highest number of Americans killed in combat since the war on terrorism began. The latest fighting is centered on a mountainous area around Gardez. U.S. and allied forces and Afghan troops are attacking al Qaeda and Taliban forces hiding in caves and tunnels.

That's all the time we have tonight. Please join me tomorrow twice at both 5:00 and 7:00 p.m. Eastern.

Until then, thanks very much for watching. I'm Wolf Blitzer in Washington. "CROSSFIRE" begins right now.

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