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CNN Sunday Morning

Interview with Jim Steinberg

Aired March 10, 2002 - 09:15   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
MILES O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: (AUDIO GAP) ... discussions with these leaders, there's a lot on the plate there.

JIM STEINBERG, FORMER DEPUTY NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER: Well, as you pointed out, this is an extraordinary trip, to send the Vice President on an extensive diplomatic mission like this really sends a signal about the importance that the United States attaches to these meetings.

And I think that the Vice President has two challenges. First, he's got to show that the United States is determined to carry forward the War against Terrorism, that right now we're focusing on Afghanistan, but there is a broader set of issues that we need to discuss with our partners.

The Vice President's got to make clear that the United States is determined, but we're also open to listening to our partner's point of view, and part of that point of view is going to be that they understand our commitment on terrorism and understand that importance. But they're right now focused on the violence between Israel and Palestine, and they want to hear from the Vice President that we're talking that into account too.

So what the Vice President needs to do, and my advice would be, to say, make clear that we're going to stay the course on the counter- terrorism fight, but also make clear that we're sensitive to why these other issues are important for them, try to develop a strategy that integrates both of those concerns.

O'BRIEN: So the carrot, if you will, would be engagement on the part of the U.S., perhaps more active engagement in the Middle East specifically?

STEINBERG: I think that's right. It's important for the United States not to suggest in any way that somehow the violence in the Middle East is an excuse for the terrorist attacks, but we also have to understand, to get the kind of support we need for a broad ranging campaign against terrorism, we need to take into account issues that are important to these leaders as well.

I think that's what the Vice President will be doing. His hand is strengthened by the fact that they've decided to send General Zinni back in, so he's going to have something to point to now. But they'll want to hear from him exactly what the U.S. strategy is to break the violence between the Israelis and the Palestinians.

O'BRIEN: All right, let's get e-mails. Let's go to one for you, Mr. Steinberg. Then we'll bring Mike Hanna in.

"We all look for a peaceful solution to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. Saudi Arabia's proposal for peace in that region is a step in the right direction. The United States has given billions in aid to both Israel and Arab nations over the past decades. Isn't it time for some of the wealthy Arab nations to commit to giving meaningful financial aid to Palestine, if a peace settlement is achieved?" That comes from Don. Good question, Don.

STEINBERG: I think it is a very important part of the overall strategy, but I think the priority right now is for the other Arab states to make clear that they are prepared to support a real peace, a peace that accepts the assistance of Israel, accepts the fact that there needs to be an understanding of the broader regional consequences here.

And so, they do need to support a Palestinian state, but they also have to make clear to the Palestinian leadership that they want a successful Palestinian state in the context of a real peace agreement that provides security for all the parties.

PHILLIPS: All right, Mike Hanna, we're going to direct the phone call to you. Karen's on the line from Atlanta, go ahead Karen.

KAREN FROM ATLANTA: My question is, with all of Israel's sophisticated military equipment, why do they continue to hit innocent civilians, especially schools, and they say it's collateral damage, or "oh, I'm sorry. It was a mistake?" Does the Geneva Convention not protect ambulances from being destroyed, like I've seen on the news? It's a disgrace.

MIKE HANNA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, that issue is a very sensitive and delicate one. Israel has used the might of its armed forces, particularly over the past week, after Ariel Sharon took a decision to ratchet up the military operations.

And also, the issue that you mentioned there of injuries and attacks on medical personnel in the midst of the conflict. Well Palestinians have been outraged by this. At least three medical workers have been killed in the past four days, and at least 10 have been injured in Israeli fire.

Now, Israel has said that weapons and explosives and possibly armed gunmen are being carried in ambulances in the areas of the conflict, this absolutely denied by the Red Crescent, which has pointed out that Israel has produced no evidence to this effect.

So it is a very, very serious issue. Among those who were killed in an Israeli fire in an ambulance was a United Nations worker, who was traveling in a well-marked U.N. ambulance, and the U.N. Secretary General has called on Israel to conduct an immediate investigation into this issue. So certainly, as this conflict reaches its heights, and when you have the array of weaponry that Israel has deployed in the field, weaponry that it says is necessary to fight terror activities against it, then certainly the degree of civilian casualties has been immense in terms of Palestinians who have been, either intentionally targeted by Israel, or who have been caught up in these massive Israeli operations.

So it is, whenever you've got a conflict like this being waged, with the intensity it is, then it does appear that you are going to get vast amounts of civilian casualties, particularly when the conflict is in highly densely-populated areas.

O'BRIEN: All right, let's go back to Mr. Steinberg with an e- mail. I think this one comes from Pennsylvania, from our viewer there:

"I think that if Israel would pull or get out of all Palestinian land or territory, there might be a chance for peace. How would we like to live under siege, like the Palestinians are? Then Arafat must stop the suicide bombers and the gunmen."

Mr. Steinberg, what this person is alluding to is essentially a land-for-peace deal, and also I'd like you to just comment a little bit as to how much you think Arafat controls, to what extent does he control the suicide bombings?

STEINBERG: Well, the issue of the settlements has always been one of the most contentious issues involved in the negotiations between Israel and the Palestinians. As you know, during the Clinton Administration, former Prime Minister Barak made a number of proposals to substantially return the territory of the Palestinians to the pre- 1967 borders, with some compensation to protect key settlements, which would be very difficult to dismantle.

This idea is also behind the heart of the Saudi proposal. But I think it's clear that any final resolution is going to require an adjustment of the territory. It was certainly contemplated throughout the Oslo Negotiations. Whether it's possible to get back to the pre- '67 borders completely and all the settlements dismantled, I'm quite doubtful. But there is a core of the idea here, which is essential to the ultimate resolution of this conflict.

At the same time, the Israelis are not going to be prepared to do that without some confidence that they could have real security, and that's where your second question comes in. How much control does Arafat have? And I think that it's always been understood by U.S. administrations, Republic and Democratic, that probably he doesn't have complete control, that there are obviously forces like Hamas which are not fully within his ability to totally suppress.

But at the same time, it's pretty clear that there are steps that you can measure and judge as to whether an effective effort is being put into it. The formula is perhaps not 100 percent success, but 100 percent effort. And as we've seen just recently in the last two days, the decision to arrest one of the individuals involved in the attack on the Israeli cabinet minister shows that there are further steps that Arafat could take.

And I think that if he were to make clear he is prepared to take those steps, he can begin to get the kind of support from the Israelis and perhaps some gestures from the Israelis that would further strengthen his position. It's a kind of virtuous cycle, as positive steps create confidence and conversely, as the violence goes on, it's a negative cycle in which confidence is destroyed and it weakens both sides' ability to bring down the level of violence.

PHILLIPS: We've got time for one more e-mail, gentlemen. Hopefully, both of you can weigh in on this, especially Mr. Steinberg. I'd like to know what you think with regard to balance, when it comes to breaking news. Here comes the question:

"It is amazing that when you report your news, I see you saying Breaking News with concern to Israelis dying, but when it comes to Palestinians dying and getting tortured, even the ones who are innocent, you keep that news in hiding until your next News Break, after which you a give a two to three-minute segment. This is nothing short of biased reporting." That comes from Hassan in Toronto. Do you want to start, Mike.

HANNA: Yes, indeed. I can assure the viewers and all viewers that in terms of policies like that, our Breaking News is precisely that. It's Breaking News.

Whatever the event that's happening on the ground, if it is of a magnitude that does require that Breaking News logo up, then we will do it. It is not a political decision. It is not one of bias. It is one of news that happens all the time. That is our policy. That's the way we operate it from here, and that's the way we will continue to operate it.

So, I deny any accusation that we use that as editorial opinion, where in what we doing is reporting the news as it happens, where it happens, and the intensity with which it's happened.

O'BRIEN: And I should point out that that e-mail is reflective of a lot of e-mails, but I should also point out that there's an equal number of e-mails who say we're biased in the other direction, which a lot of journalists would tell you, that means we're doing something right. Mr. Steinberg, what's your general sense of media coverage of this event, of the ongoing events in the Middle East here in the U.S.? Do you get a sense of balance?

STEINBERG: In a situation like this, as volatile as this, it's difficult to try to make a judgment one way or the other. I think the American media has been very straight. I think it's a real contrast with some of the media we see in the region, which covers only one side, some of the Arab outlets of just covering one side of the conflict.

But I think the American press has been there. They've been covering this very effectively, and I think it's been brought home to the living rooms of the American people how dangerous a situation we're facing. PHILLIPS: Former Deputy National Security Adviser, Jim Steinberg, our Mike Hanna from Jerusalem, gentlemen thank you so much.

O'BRIEN: We appreciate it. All right, we're going to take a break. We'll be back with a little bit more in just a moment, and thank you all this morning for your excellent e-mails and phone calls. We do appreciate it.

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