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Attorney Discusses Yates Murder Trial

Aired March 12, 2002 - 14:02   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: Jurors in the Andrea Yates case are about to begin deliberations after hearing closing arguments from prosecutors and defense attorneys today.

Back to Houston, with Ed Lavandera now outside the courtroom once again, with us.

Ed, good afternoon.

ED LAVANDERA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good afternoon, Bill.

It's been nine months since Andrea Yates drowned her five children in the bathtub of her suburban Houston home. At this moment, we suspect that jurors are returning to the courtroom, after an hour- long lunch break, to begin their deliberations. And of course, everyone we speak with around here has no idea how long that might take.

We heard dramatic and powerful closing arguments today from both the prosecution and defense attorneys in this case that has lasted 17 days -- more than three weeks of testimony in this case -- the prosecution laying out how Andrea Yates knew what she did was wrong when she drowned her five children. Last summer, they say that it was her choice and that no understanding of her mental illness, that that had no bearing on what she did last summer.

At one point, the prosecution was saying that there is no accountability in society if you find Andrea Yates not guilty by reason of insanity.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KAYLYNN WILLIFORD, PROSECUTOR: Andrea Yates is responsible. Andrea Yates made that choice. She made the choice to have Mary. She made the choice to fill the tub. She made the choice to kill those five children. She knew it was wrong. She called the police. She told what she did. She knew it was a sin. She told Dr. Deitz she didn't do it on her first opportunity because she wasn't mentally prepared. When she refers to the children in the statement, when officer Sgt. Nel asked her what did you do with Noah's body, read it -- it's chilling: I left it in there. That's how she refers to Noah: "it."

Hold her responsible. She's the one that's accountable. (END VIDEO CLIP)

LAVANDERA: That was prosecutor Kaylynn Williford, making her prosecutorial closing arguments this morning.

On the defense side, George Parnham, Andrea Yates's attorney, saying that if Andrea Yates isn't insane, isn't psychotic, then who is, and allowing, putting the pressure on the jury, saying that whole world is watching and don't allow the horrific circumstances of this crime to cloud your judgments as you go into the deliberating room. Defense attorneys want this jury to focus squarely on the matter at hand and the law at hand.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEORGE PARNHAM, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: There's an opportunity for this jury, and it's not one of sending a message to mothers don't kill your children, or you are going to end up being prosecuted. If that's the message that the state wants to send, then I hope you're not the messenger.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LAVANDERA: As we made our way out of the courtroom this morning, after 2 1/2 hours of closing arguments, I had a chance to speak with Russell Yates briefly. His family visibly expressed a lot of disgust as the prosecution was laying out its closing argument, saying that they found it insulting that the prosecution didn't take the time to get their facts straight as they were making their closing arguments. And Rusty Yates saying that anyone who has a mental illness or knows anyone who has a mental illness should have been offended and should have taken exception with what the prosecution did this morning.

Bill, back to you.

HEMMER: Ed, thanks. Ed Lavandera, reporting there in Houston.

Again, we do anticipate deliberations to start this afternoon, any moment, really, after a lunch break there inside the courtroom.

Let's go back to Houston now and talk more about the Yates trial with a criminal defense attorney. Rusty Hardin now joins us to analyze this from a legal perspective.

Rusty, good afternoon to you.

RUSTY HARDIN, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Good afternoon.

HEMMER: I know you're a defense attorney. Cynthia Alksne last hour, a former federal prosecutor, essentially hammered away at the prosecution for not being tough enough or being coherent enough throughout this entire four-week trial. Did you see it the same way?

HARDIN: Well, no, I really didn't. You know, actually, my only experience with death penalty cases was as a prosecutor, where I tried about 14 or so of them, and I've not defended one. So I tend to look at them from the prosecutor's viewpoint.

I think this is always such a difficult case for a prosecutor. They're used to street crime, they're used to drug cases or so. And the motions turning down is something you naturally into when you have got someone here who is not heinous herself; she just did a heinous crime. They probably had to find their pace. But I thought closing argument set it out very well.

HEMMER: Listening to your argument there, would it not work the same way for both sides. Defense attorneys, I know a lot of attorneys have not had much exposure to cases like these.

HARDIN: That's right, except the defense in this case, from the very first, had a very sympathetic person who had done a horribly unsympathetic event. Both of these two lawyers are excellent lawyers, and it's a natural personality slip for them to be as they were, to be very reasoned, very calm, and compassionate. Prosecutors have to sort of switch over, and sometimes it takes them awhile to find their pace.

But again, today, I did not get the sense that the prosecution was out of line at all today. I thought they did a good job.

HEMMER: Listen, put yourself in the seat of a juror right now, if you could: What evidence did you see and hear during this four- week case that may lead you or someone else to believe that indeed Andrea Yates was not insane at the time she took the life lives of her five children?

HARDIN: I think the state in final argument mentioned it. What you have is that the contrast that you have here is intellectual argument the defense making: She knew what she was doing wrong in the eyes of society, but it was right in her own mind. That's a subtle argument. The state's side is the very planned, organized, detached but still very deliberate way she went about killing the children, allowing them to die after she began the activity, struggling with them, and then the way she related it to others.

And one of the things they mentioned in final argument is is that she did not say she did to save them from the devil at the scene. That is something that later become what she told psychiatrists.

HEMMER: That hit home with you, apparently?

HARDIN: Not necessarily with me. If you put me on that jury, I find her not guilty by reason of insanity. Btu on the other hand, it is something that may resonate with some of the jurors.

I think the main thing about this case has always been it is the right vehicle for a jury. I don't think we lawyers or judges should be making the decision. I think 12 people needed to hear this in a litigated, adversarial context, to decide what is the appropriate resolution when a woman, who by all evidence was previously a loving mother but committed a horrible act in this case.

HEMMER: I'm curious to know: I know across the country this case has gotten a whole lot of attention. Despite the events that are taking place in the Middle East and in Afghanistan, this has really come to the forefront time and time again. What's the sense in Houston, Texas, while this case has been unfolding there?

HARDIN: It's the same here. I've never seen a case -- I've been a lawyer for 26 years, I've practiced both in criminal and civil courts, in all this experience over the years -- I've never seen one that polarized people, but not in ways that you would ordinarily expect. Many people unanimously condemn Rusty Yates; whether right or wrong, they feel very strongly that he has much of the blame here.

In addition, you see people who ordinarily don't believe in the death penalty. I went to a basketball game one night during the trial with a woman who I knew had always opposed to the death penalty, with three children; she would give the death penalty in this case. On the other hand, people like myself, who grew up as prosecutors in the system, look at it and decide that is a person we would not give the death penalty to.

So it's crossed all lines, racial and gender and age. I've not seen a case grab the attention quite like this one, because there's no black and white answer. That's why it's right for a jury to decide.

HEMMER: Interesting perspective. Rusty, thanks. Rusty Hardin there, outside the courtroom there, in Houston, Texas.

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