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Judiciary Committee Expected to Vote on Pickering's Nomination

Aired March 14, 2002 - 14:04   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: Also on Capitol Hill, the Senate Judiciary Committee right now at this time starting to work their way into the room, perhaps again we anticipate they will take up the White House's nomination of Charles Pickering for the Federal Court of Appeals. This is a nomination that has come under heavy fire from Democrats on that committee. Jonathan Karl back with us to sort things out. Jonathan, hello again.

JONATHAN KARL, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Hello, Bill.

We expect that hearing to go under way any minute now. And if you remember, when they met last week and almost had a vote on this, right before the hearing started you had some very tense words between the chairman, Democrat Patrick Leahy and the top Republican on the committee, Orrin Hatch. This has gotten personal. And the reason why this has gotten personal is because Charles Pickering -- well, first of all, if he goes down as expected, if all Democrats do vote against this on party lines, it's the first defeat of one of President Bush's nominees, first defeat ever. He's had -- not had this happen yet.

Second, Pickering is from Mississippi, appointed to the 5th Circuit. And as a judge from Mississippi, he was the personnel choice of Senator Trent Lott, the minority leader here, the top Republican. And the way the Senate works on judicial nominees usually is that home state senators get wide latitude here, and this is seen as a personal affront to the president and also a personal affront to the top Republican in the Senate, Trent Lott.

So when this comes together, the only last-minute bit of drama is we know that Pickering, based on the public statements of the Democrats on the committee, will be rejected. What the Republicans will try to do, though, and the last-ditch effort you will see happen is they will try to say, OK, the committee voted against the nomination, but can they vote to have the fate of the nomination determined by the full Senate, not by the committee. Can they vote it out of committee so the full Senate can vote on it?

Democrats are expected not to go along with that. But if they did, the reason why Republicans want to do this is there are Democrats in the full Senate who support Judge Pickering. There are at least three who are on record saying that if they had a chance to vote on this nomination, they would vote yes. But none of the Democrats on this committee agree with that. He's considered controversial, especially in the area of civil rights. One case that got a lot of attention here in this hearing was a case involving a cross burning, it was decided in 1997 by Judge Pickering, and Judge Pickering was seen as trying to fight for a more lenient sentence to the person who was convicted of a cross burning, and this is something that civil right groups have cited as just one example of a record they think is not very hospitable to civil rights. There was also, if you remember, a 1959 article that Judge Pickering wrote where he actually defended or seemed to be defending laws banning mix-raced marriages.

So he has been controversial among Democrats at least here in Washington -- Bill.

HEMMER: All right, Jonathan, stand by there on Capitol Hill. We're going to move down Pennsylvania Avenue to Kelly Wallace, and once again the White House holding on the slim hopes that indeed something may shake free there, doesn't at this point any way, in that committee, Kelly, that they are going to get that wish?

KELLY WALLACE, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Exactly. Not a lot of optimism here. You know, we asked Ari Fleischer, Bill, the president's spokesman, why the president and his staff weren't making more calls. Fleischer said earlier the president, his staff making a call or two. Fleischer saying, look, there are only a few, quote, "swingable votes" on the Senate Judiciary Committee, so it doesn't really pay to call or lobby people who have already made up their minds.

The argument you keep getting from here just what Jonathan is saying, the administration saying that Judge Pickering has enough support of Republicans and Democrats if the full Senate were to vote on his nomination. So the big move or the argument is that this committee should let the nomination go to the full Senate floor.

Now, what you have, Democrats you see there, last week President Bush having Judge Pickering in the Oval Office. You do have some questions, Bill, some people wondering if the president kind of stepped into this a little bit late. But what Republicans and what White House officials are saying is, again, that Democrats are really playing politics with this one. They are also saying that there's likely to be consequences for this action. You have White House officials saying that, and you have some Hill Republicans saying that one possibility could be some retaliation, that Republicans could try to hold up Senate business to force Democrats in the Senate to act on future judicial nominees.

So while Pickering looks dead, you definitely see some lobbying going on both the Democratic and Republican sides for future battles when it comes to judicial nominations -- Bill.

HEMMER: All right, Kelly, we are going to continue to watch that room. In the meantime, though, let's continue our conversation here. Ari Fleischer talked about the INS flap. Again, today, several questions there. He called it "embarrassing," mimicking the president's words yesterday from his briefing, but he also said it was important right now to give this matter attention. What would the White House like done within this agency at this point?

WALLACE: Well, two things happening. One, of course, you know, the investigation. The president wants the Justice Department to get back to him within 30 days on this issue, just to see if this is a minor problem or if it's really reflects a systematic problem within the Immigration and Naturalization Service.

But you also have this administration saying that it thinks that the INS should be split into two parts; one part of the agency focused exclusively on enforcement areas, the other part focused on welcoming and helping immigrants into this country. You heard Fleischer say that the president believes in both the enforcement part and also the welcoming part not working, not working well enough. So definitely believing reforms are needed, Bill.

HEMMER: Kelly, another topic here. It was rock talk today a little bit, U2 was at the White House. We knew he was on Capitol Hill yesterday. He's been working, Bono has, for some time for third world debt relief. Did he get any assurances today from the White House?

WALLACE: He sure did. He also got a ride here with the president here from the White House to the president's speech, and the president unveiling an initiative, $5 billion over three years. White House officials saying the largest increase in U.S. history going to the development world. The president you see there with Bono at this speech. The president tying this aid really to countries to help them pave the way for economic and political reform, human rights. The president saying that this is a way to get the developing world moving forward. And Bill, we're expecting Bono to come out here at the White House and talk to us.

HEMMER: Yeah, well, say hello, will you?

WALLACE: It's a beautiful day, right?

HEMMER: Stuck in a moment.

WALLACE: OK.

HEMMER: Thank you, Kelly. See you a bit later.

Still watching that Senate Judiciary Committee again. The senators starting to file into that room, and once the talk is under way we will certainly bring it to you live, and certainly the vote that is critical as well.

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