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Operation Anaconda Enters Transitional Phase

Aired March 14, 2002 - 14:21   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: The war in Afghanistan, now Martin Savidge reporting Operation Anaconda in a transitional phase. We need to warn you about this next story, though: Some of the pictures in this piece are graphic. Here's Martin Savidge from Bagram.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MARTIN SAVIDGE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): As Operation Anaconda closes in on the two-week mark, the largest military action of the war in Afghanistan shows no sign of ending. But it does seem to be moving into a new phase.

BRYAN HILFERTY, U.S. ARMY SPOKESMAN: We now have a light infantry on the (UNINTELLIGIBLE) and in the Shah-e-Kot valley area doing what we call a sensitive site exploitation, looking for information, looking in the caves, looking in the area.

SAVIDGE: New troops have been airlifted into the lower Shah-e- Kot valley. Among them, close to 500 Canadian soldiers. For Canada, it is the first combat operation for ground forces since the Korean War half a century ago.

LT. LUC SHARRON, CANADIAN ARMY SPOKESMAN: We're proud to take part of this war against terrorism with our coalition brothers, and we're making history here.

SAVIDGE: History is also the word used to describe the Taliban and al Qaeda fighters in the Eastern Afghan Valley.

MAJ. GEN. F.L. HAGENBACK, OPERATION ANACONDA: We've rid the world of hundreds of trained killers who will now not slaughter innocent men, women and children.

SAVIDGE: General Hagenback said the number of those Taliban and al Qaeda forces still alive in the area is less than 100, down from a peek projected force of close to 1,000.

At one point in the battle, military sources say they learned al Qaeda commanders put out a call for hundreds of coffins, and vehicles to transport the dead. Reportedly, they never arrived.

But were Osama bin Laden or Taliban leader Mullah Mohammed Omar thought to be among those killed? UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We do know that we've killed some second and third tier level al Qaeda leadership. We've gotten that information from some of the detainees that we've picked. The big names that you and I are most familiar with, however, indications are that they were not in this valley.

SAVIDGE: Just to be sure, coalition forces are said to be taking DNA samples from some of the dead. Even when Operation Anaconda does end, military officials say the hunt for terrorist leaders will not.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If I was an al Qaeda leader, I'd sleep with one eye open.

SAVIDGE: Martin Savidge, CNN, Bagram, Afghanistan.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

HEMMER: Let's talk more about the military now. Our analyst, Major General Don Shepperd back with us in Washington. Good afternoon, Don. Good to see you.

MAJ. GEN. DONALD SHEPPERD, CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Hello, Bill.

HEMMER: Exploitation phase. Define that a bit better for us.

SHEPPERD: The exploitation phase is basically cleaning up this area in the Shah-e-Kot valley, finding out what is left there in the way of people, in the way of information, and trying to exploit that information so we can find other places that these al Qaeda forces may be hiding in Afghanistan, and other places around the world, so we can go get them, Bill.

HEMMER: What do you make of the fact 500 Canadians right now on the scene there in eastern Afghanistan? How significant?

SHEPPERD: I think it's very significant. It's significant for Canada. It's a statement about Canada's role in the war against terrorism and their seriousness about it as a Western nation. The Canadian forces are very, very good, and this is their first action since the Korean War -- first combat action since the Korean War. It's very significant for them and for us, Bill. The more coalition forces, the more people we get involved in this, the more places all of us can go over the world to get the terrorists.

HEMMER: Don, I don't know if you saw some of the reports that came out earlier today. "New York Times" reporting on this and a few other outlets about why the Pentagon is reluctant right now to talk about casualty numbers. We haven't heard that in several days. Why is that? And what makes the military hold back on that front?

SHEPPERD: Very good reason, Bill. When I first heard talk of estimated body counts, I shuttered, because my memories went back to Vietnam, where body count become a measure of success. It became exaggerated. They kill 100 Americans, so we had to kill 150 of them. That's not the case here. We must not, as a nation or as a military, get into the business of making body counts a measure of success. We don't know how many people we're fighting. That was an estimate. We don't know for sure how many people we've killed. That's an estimate. We get these estimates by looking at gun camera film and film from our sensors, reports from people on the ground. We add them up, and we make estimates.

The important thing is to make sure that the al Qaeda is gone from the Shah-e-Kot valley, and that they are gone from other places in Afghanistan and around the world. And, again, estimating body counts -- we must understand that it's only an estimate and a guess, and never get tied down into actually counting them, because we'll never be able to do that.

HEMMER: And I think, general, the flip side of that is you may not know, the military may not know, the Pentagon may not know how many got away. Is there any way to determine that if indeed the situation that we see in the Shah-e-Kot valley does not reappear, whether it would be in Afghanistan or possibly across the border in Pakistan when these al Qaeda fighters who possibly have escaped from there regather and regroup again?

SHEPPERD: Not only do we not know for sure how many we are fighting or how many we killed, we don't know how many got away or how many will show up against across the world. The important thing in Afghanistan right now is to, if at all possible, produce the condition so if foreign al Qaeda fighters come back in, the Afghan people mass against them and throw them out, and security is spread across that country, which is going to take many months and perhaps several years for that to happen. Again, this is an opening chapter of a long war in many places.

HEMMER: I'm curious from a military standpoint, when you hear the commanders on the ground saying to the al Qaeda fighters, make sure you sleep with one eye open?

SHEPPERD: Yeah. If I were an al Qaeda fighter, I would be on the run. And the other important thing is that the message has gone out is if you are supporting al Qaeda forces or terrorist forces anywhere, if you are around them, you yourself are at risk, even if you are a woman or a child or a family -- anybody who supports these people, if you're in the area, you become a risk. It's an important message to everybody. They need to be on the run, and they need to know that no matter where they go, no matter how long it takes, we are going to be after them -- forever, Bill.

HEMMER: Major General Don Shepperd. Thanks, Don. Appreciate it. Talk to you again tomorrow, OK?

SHEPPERD: Good day.

HEMMER: Good deal.

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