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CNN Talkback Live

Polls Indicate People Disagree with the Way Church Leaders Handle Pedophilia; More Moms Staying at Home

Aired March 18, 2002 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ARTHEL NEVILLE, HOST: Hello, everybody. It is Monday. Welcome to TALKBACK LIVE. I'm Arthel Neville. It's been a dirty secret for too long now, and now the stories are coming out, scores of them, in Boston, New York, Connecticut and other cities across the country. It's a widespread sexual abuse scandal involving Catholic priests and children. And polls show most people are discouraged with the way church leaders are handling it. Sixty-four percent say they have done poorly. We'll hear from a woman who says she was abused by her priest in just a minute. And I want to hear from you, especially if you are Catholic. Give me a buzz at 1-800-310-4CNN and e-mail: talkback@cnn.com. Here's what we have going today.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

NEVILLE (voice-over): Forget the glass ceiling. More moms are heading to the nursery, ditching careers to raise their children. According to the 2000 U.S. Census, 45 percent of mothers now stay home with their kids, up four percent from 1998. And it's the first time the trend has gone that way since 1971. Are women headed back to the future?

Also, pedophiles and the Catholic priesthood.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm not about to send my kids to a church where there's a safe haven for pedophiles.

NEVILLE: It may not shake the faith, but many of the faithful are shaken to the core wondering if they can trust their pastors and bishops to practice what they preach.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

NEVILLE: Well, I can tell you these sexual abuse cases are a topic of conversation in Catholic households and churches all over the United States. And here to talk with us about it is Michael Fahey, professor of theology at Marquette University; Barbara Blaine, founder of the Survivors Network of those abused by priests. She has her own story to tell us about abuse. And Jason Berry is an investigative journalist and the author of "Lead Us Not Into Temptation, Catholic Priests and the Sexual Abuse of Children."

Thank you all for being with me this afternoon. And the first question, Barbara, why don't you go ahead and try to answer this. What is going on here? Why is it that this molestation seems to be so rampant in the Catholic Church?

BARBARA BLAINE, FOUNDER, SURVIVORS NETWORK: Well, I think part of the problem is because of the fact that the church leaders have left so many of these priest perpetrators in positions of ministry where they can abuse again. It wasn't bad enough that they abused some of us, but then they were allowed to remain in ministry for decades, some of them.

NEVILLE: Jason Berry, what do you have to say?

JASON BERRY, "LEAD US NOT INTO TEMPTATION": I think the problem is the power structure from Rome on down. The hierarchy is riddled with conflict about the dynamics of human sexuality that exists within clerical culture itself. And it is a power structure that is honeycombed with secrecy. Many of these bishops have turned a blind eye to various sexual behavior patterns in clerical life over the years, and as I've discovered in writing the book, that lenience, that mentality, has sadly extended to those who would violate the laws of the age of consent and have abused children. They keep recycling them. And the explosion of cases we're seeing now in the news media is because of this long build up of denial by the bishops.

Michael Fahey, everybody's mentioning secrecy and denial. What do you say?

FATHER MICHAEL FAHEY, MARQUETTE UNIVERSITY: Yes, there is a culture of secrecy and isolation among many of those who are making decisions within the Catholic Church. And this, unfortunately, has led to the phenomenon that's just been mentioned of simply relocating priests who are ill, who have a sickness, who are classic pedophiles. And this is most regrettable.

There's also been concentration on the priest rather than concentration and attention given to the victims.

NEVILLE: Mr. Fahey, let me -- excuse me for a moment. We're going to pause for a second. We're going to go now to Bill Hemmer in the newsroom with a news alert.

BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: Arthel, thank you very much.

We talked about the FBI announcement. Let's go to the Justice Department right now. Operation Candy Man is the Internet sting being announced now.

BRUCE GEBHARDT, FBI EXECUTIVE ASSISTANT DIRECTOR: I'm Bruce Gebhardt, executive assistant director of the FBI with responsibility for criminal investigations and cyber crimes. Over the past 14 months, FBI agents across the nation have been working undercover to expose an international ring of pedophiles and predators devoted to trading and propagating pornographic images of children over the Internet. Today, we are announcing that this circle of criminals has been disbanded, and their illicit Web site shut down. Forty individuals in 20 states are now in custody with another 50 expected by week's end. They include members of the clergy, law enforcement officers, a nurse, a teacher's aide, a school bus driver, and others entrusted with protecting, nurturing and educating the American youth.

The investigative initiative called Operation Candy Man draws its code name from the electronic group on the Internet that it targeted. E-groups create cyberspace communities of like-minded individuals who seek to communicate privately on a single subject matter using e-mail and dedicated Web sites.

As its name implies, the Candy Man e-group had a single purpose in mind as well: To exploit and degrade children. Our investigation uncovered an estimated 7,000 members, including some 2,400 outside our borders using e-mail and the Candy Man Web site to post, download and share pornographic images of children. Other e-groups discovered throughout the course of our work are being investigated as well.

This initiative was spearheaded by the Houston division of the FBI, and each of the bureau's 56 field offices has participated. Parallel investigations conducted by these field offices will result in additional indictments and arrests in the coming months.

As Operation Candy Man demonstrates, the FBI is committed to protecting America's children from pedophiles and pornographers. The centerpiece of our efforts is our Innocent Images initiative launched in 1995. Today, 23 task forces nationwide made up of a vast array of federal, state, and local law enforcement officers work shoulder to shoulder sharing information and expertise in the fight against those who collect, distribute and produce child pornography online. Last year's Innocent Images set record highs in the number of cases, indictments, arrests and convictions.

I want to thank the men and women of the FBI, especially our agents and support staff in the Houston office for their outstanding work on this investigation. I also want to thank our many partners: the United States attorneys offices across the country, as well as the Department of Justice, criminal division, and the state and local law enforcement nationwide. It was truly a team effort.

Finally, I'd like to thank United States Attorney John Ashcroft for his support in not only this initiative but in all initiatives of the FBI. Thank you very much.

And now, I'd like to introduce, who actually needs no introduction, Attorney General John Ashcroft.

JOHN ASHCROFT, U.S. ATTORNEY GENERAL: Good afternoon. Thank you, Bruce.

I'm pleased to be able to be with you today and to be able to commend those individuals who have worked to make Operation Candy Man a success since this operation began in January of 2001. The work of the nation's law enforcement officers to make American's children safe now extends well beyond the physical world. It extends into electronic universe localities such as cyberspace.

Many Americans use the Internet, and the Internet e-mail groups has productive forums where like-minded individuals can stay informed of current events as well as to discuss things such as sports, travel destinations, occupational news, or even to discuss their favorite television shows.

Unfortunately, some in this country have used the Internet to exploit America's young people by creating e-mail groups to promote and trade pictures of children being sexually exploited and abused. It is clear that a new marketplace for child pornography has emerged in the dark corners of cyberspace. There, in e-groups, hidden in the vastness of the Internet, innocent boys and girls have been targeted by offenders who view them as sexual objects. These offenders have tried to use technology and anonymity of the Internet to trade child pornography, and these individuals must be stopped.

Today, I'm pleased to commend and thank everyone who's been working to stop this blatant abuse. Operation Candy Man demonstrates both the scope of the problem of child pornography in this country and the commitment of our nation's law enforcement officers to shut it down.

In the past 14 months, all 56 national FBI field offices investigated hundreds of individuals who were subscribers to the Candy Man e-group. These individuals are spread across the country, and some hold positions of trust by parents, you know, such as bus drivers, teachers, or other educational roles. Operation Candy Man is working to protect America's youth from those who would exploit the trust of children and parents.

When we pursue child pornography, the path often leads to evidence of real sexual predators who have abused real children. For example, in the days leading up to today's national arrest operation, the FBI has charged 86 people on child pornography grounds, and 27 members of the Candy Man e-group have been arrested who have admitted to molesting 36 children.

The FBI's efforts to initiate and to lead Operation Candy Man are not just appreciated by me, they're appreciated by every American parent. In particular, I would like to thank Bruce Gebhardt, the FBI's executive assistant director for his leadership and dedication to this effort, the Crimes Against Children unit, and the FBI's Houston field office that worked to shut down the Candy Man e-group and other cyber groups after the appropriate discoveries were made.

They also worked to coordinate the resulting field investigations. I should note that this operation is just one part of the FBI's Innocent Images national initiative to investigate child pornography and to investigate individuals who travel to commit sexual offenses against children.

HEMMER: Attorney General John Ashcroft and also the FBI assistant director there, Bruce Gebhardt, announcing Operation Candy Man to the public. At this point, they say 40 people in custody in 20 different states; potential now for 50 more arrests throughout the week here.

Candy Man e-group, they say, had 7,000 members, 2,400 of whom operated outside of the U.S. And some of the people now arrested as a result of this Internet porn crackdown. Quite disturbing. Members of the police, members of the clergy, a nurse they mentioned; also, a school bus driver, as well. That announcement from the FBI in Washington. You saw it live here.

We're going to get a break. Arthel Neville, though, back. She hasn't gone far. Back with TALKBACK LIVE after a quick break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

FAHEY: Sometimes they take advice from so-called experts who say that individual priests who have received therapy and treatment are safe to go back and work in congregations and parishes, which, unfortunately, is not the case in the vast majority of situations. And they've been poorly advised and they've made decisions in isolation without incorporating the views and the help of other people. So this cannot and will not continue now because people are alerted to the gravity of the situation.

NEVILLE: Barbara, how does that make you feel to know that offenders have been allowed to go back to work or go to a different parish?

BLAINE: I just don't see why we put children at risk. There is no reason whatsoever to put a child at risk again, and that's what we are doing in diocese after diocese, where priests who have previously abused children are still allowed to remain in ministry. And I would say that we need to err on the side of protecting the children. It's far easier to repair the reputation of an adult who is falsely accused than it is to repair the life of a child who is molested.

NEVILLE: You know, Boston's archdiocese had been one of the hot spots as well. And joining us now from Boston is CNN correspondent Bill Delaney -- Bill.

BILL DELANEY, CNN BOSTON BUREAU CHIEF: Thank you, Arthel. You know, it's a rare day here in Boston. We have two major newspaper in this town. A rare day that just one of them is carrying a front-page story today about a continuing sexual scandal in the Catholic Church. It's usually both newspaper and certainly all radio and television media. A deluge here traumatic in this city of two million Catholics.

Now the most immediate development we have here at the moment is that tomorrow, the Catholic Church will be turning over to the attorney general here in Massachusetts more information than ever before on victims, alleged victims, of alleged sexual molestation by Catholic priests. Over the past 50 years, this information.

Now it was several weeks ago that the Catholic Church was compelled to turn over the names of more than 90 priests accused of sexual misconduct with the young over the past 50 years, but the attorney general wants it more. He will get it now, information on precisely what happened in these alleged incidents, when they happened, and where they happened.

Now, also, roiling through the Catholic community here in the past couple of days, Arthel, information in a newspaper, "The Pilot," which is the Catholic archdiocese's newspaper. I said information. It was really an editorial, an editorial that broke real ground here because it was an editorial in this newspaper of the Catholic archdiocese, "The Pilot," calling for a much more open discussion than ever before about issues like priestly celibacy and ordaining women and gay priests.

Now this newspaper is usually published in an edition of about 25,000 and then distributed over the weekend in churches. It was published this week, an edition of 100,000, and by the time the weekend came along, there were no copies left. We were at Holy Cross Cathedral yesterday where Cardinal Bernard Law (ph) was saying mass. Not a copy to be found, a gauge of the interest here, of course, in all this.

Also over the weekend, Arthel, and finally, a blue-ribbon panel appointed by Bernard Cardinal law to look into all this, had its first meeting. They plan to make recommendations on all this in several months. But the church still facing many dozens of civil suits against it to come -- Arthel.

NEVILLE: That's right. And Bill, on that note, the church is paying out tens of millions of dollars in legal settlements to victims. And how is that affecting the archdiocese of Boston in particular?

DELANEY: The numbers are really mind boggling. The church has already paid out -- it's an estimated $30 million to $40 million. Just last week in the case of one priest alone, the church agreed to settle some 80 civil settlements for about between $20 million and $30 million. As I said, dozens of other cases remain.

It's now credibly estimated that the Catholic Church will have to pay out as much as $100 million to settle all this over the next several years. How will they pay for it? Not completely clear. There's talk of selling off church property. There's talk of wealthy Catholics writing checks, and one church spokesman has acknowledged that to some degree, small amounts will be taken from those Sunday collections that all Catholics, of course, are so familiar with.

NEVILLE: But, you know, Bill, here's the question. I mean, when you're passing out money and putting your money in the collection every Sunday, certainly, you don't want those dollars going to protect priests who may have molested a young boy.

DELANEY: Catholics we've spoken to here in the archdiocese are very bothered by that, and the church has been very muted on that subject. The information that possibly some money would come from collections came in a letter sent by a spokesman close to Cardinal Law that was sent around about a weekend or so ago. It was a 12-page letter addressing many issues, and that was mentioned glancingly. It has not been made crystal clear that collection money will be taken. It's a very sensitive issue here indeed. You will hear when you go out on the street and talk to Catholics, that's one issue that really bothers them, that their money would go to settle these cases.

NEVILLE: Absolutely, absolutely. Bill Delaney, thanks so much for joining us. And you mentioned that "The Pilot" paper in Boston, and we have -- we're going to talk about that when we come back. And one of the questions the editorial posed, which is: If celibacy were optional, would there be fewer scandals of this nature in the priesthood?

I'd like to know what you think about that. Think about it and give me a call or e-mail me after the break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

NEVILLE: Welcome back. We're talking about the sex abuse scandal involving priests in the Catholic Church. And before we move on, I'd like to pull up an excerpt now from "The Pilot," which is the Catholic paper in Boston, so we can discuss what it has to say, questions that must be faced. If celibacy were optional, would there be fewer scandals of this nature in the priesthood? And does priesthood, in fact, attract a disproportionate number of men with homosexual orientation?

Barbara, I'd like to start with you on the latter question, and that is: You defy the notion that it's only about homosexuality.

BLAINE: Well, I don't think that studies -- I mean, the studies show that homosexual men are actually less likely to abuse children than heterosexual men. But I think the issue is deeper. And if we look at the fact that approximately 1,400, maybe it's 1,600 priests have been named across the U.S. as perpetrators of sex abuse on children, and yet, only approximately 24 are actually -- have been criminally prosecuted and have served any jail sentence. So what we have is a situation where the Catholic Church has protected these criminals, and they've been allowed to not only remain in ministry, but to continue to abuse because of the protections that they receive from the church. And they aren't held to the same standard that other citizens are held to.

NEVILLE: Jason Berry, let me ask you the question. If there weren't this celibacy laws, do you think this would be a problem?

BERRY: I think if the celibacy law were made optional that we would see a rejuvenation of the priesthood. I think we would also see over the long term a power struggle between a hierarchy that has a great many gay priests in it and a movement of married priests, men and women, who would want to exert their own presence in the church.

I mean, let's face it. Power struggles happen in all institutions. But I think over the long term, yes, we probably would see a decline in the numbers of child molesting cases. And although I don't like to make any link between homosexuality and child sexual abuse because, indeed, most gay people do not molest children, the number of homosexual men in the priesthood is so large that many of these cases involve teenage boys.

And the perpetrators, again, a very small minority of priests, but the perpetrators tend to be psychosexually immature, almost regressive in that sense, acting out in an narcissistic way with youngsters who are about the age that they were when their maturing process stopped. So there's a serious problem in the seminaries, serious problems in the priesthood, and I think changing the celibacy law would be a very important step in moving beyond the very sad impasse where the church now is.

BLAINE: The other thing I felt...

NEVILLE: Barbara, give me a second here. I'd like to get Father Fahey in on this.

Father, what do you have to say about this?

FAHEY: Oh, I think that having a married clergy would be an enrichment for the Catholic Church, but I don't think it would directly affect this particular issue.

One of the things, however, is the fact that so many of the Catholic clergy are not married, the vast majority of them are not married except in the eastern churches, means that they don't have the direct experience of parenthood and they are not perhaps as sensitized to the needs and the need to protect children that married men and families would have. So that's another consideration. But as has been pointed out, the question of pedophelia is quite separate from whether one is married or not. And unfortunately the statistics show that this is more prevalent among married persons.

NEVILLE: Definitely.

BERRY: Just one second, I would like to if I may...

NEVILLE: Jason, I am going to hold you over for the next break. I have got to take a break at the moment. I want to say goodbye and thank you to Barbara Blaine. Chris is standing with me here. I am going to get your comments when you come back, and your comments from home and we are going to meet a victim who had to live with a dirty secret who was a victim. Back in a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

NEVILLE: And welcome back. We are talking about sexual abuse by priests in the Catholic church. Joining me now is Lee White. He has filed a lawsuit over abuse he said happened when he was 14 years old. Lee, tell us your story.

LEE WHITE, PLAINTIFF IN SUIT ALLEGING ABUSE BY PRIEST: Well, I was abused in 1970 when I was 14 years old IN Newport, Rhode Island by a priest named Father James Silva. At the time I repressed the memory and didn't recover it again until 1992 when I went into therapy. At that time I filed suit about 6 months after the memory was recovered.

And my case unfortunately has been pending in the Rode Island legal system since 1993 and we are nowhere near settling the case or having it even go to trial.

NEVILLE: Lee, I want to ask you this, and that is, you know parents are always telling their children not to let anyone touch them in the wrong place or touch them in any kind of improper way. But this was the priest. So you as a young boy, were you confused? Do I say something? I know this is wrong but he's the priest. I'm not supposed to say anything.

WHITE: Well, the thing is if you go to, as I did, I went to catholic school, so it's drilled into your head that the priest is basically God on earth so you can imagine how confused you are when you are in your early teens and the person you consider God on earth is doing something like this to you, telling you not to tell people, doing it more than once. I mean, your mental system basically shuts down. You are not able to deal with it. That's what happened to me.

NEVILLE: How do you feel today?

WHITE: Frustrated. Very frustrated. We filed our case on St. Patrick's day nine years ago and the diocese of Providence, Rhode Island refuses to even consider settling the cases with us. I don't understand why a diocese that's thirty-five miles from Boston can't do exactly what Cardinal Law did which was turn over the records to the authorities, settle with us and let us move on with our lives.

NEVILLE: You know recently CNN and "TIME" magazine conducted a poll which would I like to share with everybody at this point and one of the questions posed was sexual abuse charges make you feel more negative towards the Catholic church. Among Catholics, 24 percent said yes; 64 percent said no.

And the next part of the poll would I like to share with you now: it says Catholic priests accused of sexually abusing children. Again, among Catholics 50 percent of them said this was -- the cases were isolated, then 40 percent of them said this is a larger pattern. Chris, I would like to ask what you think about this.

CHRIS: I think it's probably an isolated incident. You have had priests, this is forever they have had a vow of celibacy and a vow to be married to church and to God and I think over all, that's probably the case. Celibacy does not necessarily go hand in hand with pedophilia. I just don't think that it's going to be -- it's going to change it very much if they allow the priests to marry.

NEVILLE: Thank you, Chris. You are saying that if in fact priests were allowed to marry, then that would not necessarily change anything. We were talking earlier, if you could stand up for me, Angela, I know you want to weigh in on this particular comment.

ANGELA: Right. I do believe that me being as a Catholic and the priest suggesting himself that a vow of celibacy, perhaps another division of the church, could enrich the priesthood. It would enrich being a Catholic. And I as well was always brought up to believe that a priest was married to God. So where is that whole -- fit into the whole philosophy of the Catholic church now in this modern 21st century? NEVILLE: Father Fahey, would you like to address that?

FAHEY: That is a way of speaking. But in another sense the priest is also married to his congregation. He's committed. It's a metaphor, but he is not married to an individual. He doesn't have his own family, and one is not married to God in the strict sense except in a highly metaphorical way.

So I think it's just unbelievable that these cases drag out so long and how regrettable and how difficult it must be for somebody who has had this experience, recalled it after a number of years and then to see it drag on year after year in the courts. And one wonders if any amount of money could ever repair the damage done to a person emotionally and psychologically by this.

NEVILLE: I would imagine not. Nicole in D.C., what do you have to say -- Nicole?

CALLER: Hi. I just think it's absolutely ridiculous that TALKBACK LIVE or any media would try and address the question, does the Catholic church need to change. That's a question that his holiness has to answer. That is a question that the clergy has to answer and the parishioners have to answer after hours and hours of prayer, with no disrespect to the victims.

These issues need to be handled privately because handling them in a public forum like TALKBACK LIVE only enhances the pain and separation people feel for their church. We are talking about the Lord's church, not Hollywood scandal.

NEVILLE: Nicole, are you Catholic?

CALLER: Yes. And I am Catholic.

NEVILLE: Father, Nicole feels like this should be a private matter. Perhaps that's been the problem that is has been held such, in such a private manner -- in a manner. What do you say to that?

FAHEY: The holy father, you know when he's talking about the need for conversion of all people in the church recognizes that this is a public issue and when he goes to Jerusalem he makes a public gesture of apology to the Jewish community and the Jewish religion for what Christians have done to Jews.

I think it is appropriate that these be handled in the public forum. Should be done with respect, but obviously there is a need for conversion and we can only do that by facing these issues in a public forum.

NEVILLE: David, quickly do you think this should be held in a public forum?

DAVID: I think that the whole situation, going back to what she was saying about betterment of the ministry, I think as a minister myself I think there are more issues at hand for the congregation even as the priest was saying a minute ago, that it's a big issue. And there are many issues within our congregations that need to be met and having an understanding of family and children I think enhances one's opportunity to minister to people.

NEVILLE: Thank you, David. This is certainly a complex issue here, one that will continue to be discussed. Lee White, Jason Berry and Michael Fahey, thank you so much for joining us -- Father Fahey.

Up next, why would a woman choose children over career? Let's see if we can find out why a growing number of women are heading home. Also the editor of "Working Mother" says day care can be better than mom care. Say what? I bet you have something to say about that. We'll be back right after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

NEVILLE: And welcome back to TALKBACK LIVE. According to the 2000 census, women are beginning to reverse a trend that's been in place since 1971. What they are doing is choosing their children over their careers. More than half -- 55 percent of mothers -- still work outside the home, but that's down from the 59 percent high in 1998.

Now it may not seem like much, but there may be something to talk about here, something going on. And here to talk about it are Rebecca Hegelin (ph) vice president of communications and columnist for worldnetdaily.com. Tomorrow's column, by the way, encouraging moms to stay home is called "be a quitter." She is a mother of three children and works from home. Also with us, Sharman Stein, the articles editor for "Working Mother" magazine. She has two boys and has always worked outside the home. Hmmm.

Who do we start with? Rebecca, how about with you? Tell us your story and when did you decide to stay at home?

REBECCA HAGELIN, MOTHER OF THREE: When I got pregnant with my first child in 1987 I decided that I was going to be with my children, that there was no greater call for a woman than to be a mother and to raise productive citizens in society. I know that children have needs that only a mom can meet and I'm committed to doing that.

Mothering is a process that takes place through our whole lives once we become a mother, but there are specific formative years where we have a very limited time to influence their lives, to teach them value and virtue and unconditional love, and I'm committed to doing that. And with modern technology we can...

NEVILLE: Let me ask you this, was it a difficult decision emotionally and financially to make to stay at home?

HAGELIN: No. Not at all. I mean, to me it was never a question. I was going to be there to raise my children no matter what. Now financially there was a sacrifice. And there continues to be, even though I'm an executive with worldnetdaily.com and Internet News Company, I do give up certain things to be at home with my children full-time and work there.

Now I will say with modern technology, more women can do both but the priority has got to be on the kids, on the children.

NEVILLE: Now, I'm going to jump in here and play a little something advocate. Don't like to use the devil word. But anyway, you know, some people may say, well, Rebecca, good for you. You are at home but you are still working. So, really, how much can you pay attention to your children while you are on the Internet doing your job?

HAGELIN: You know what, that's where the key come in. Children at six months old have different needs than they do at seven years old or six years old. And you need to have a focus as a mother that allows you to evolve in your work and have your primary focus your children.

If I could say one thing to the women that are watching this -- maybe some of them are watching it during their lunch hours across America -- it's change your paradigm of thinking. Make your children be your priority and let your work be the extra thing that do you in your life, and you will be very happy for that.

NEVILLE: Ms. Stein, Rebecca says guess what, your priorities are all wrong if you are a working mom. What do you say about that?

SHARMAN STEIN, WORKING MOTHER OF TWO: Well, I have no intention of getting into a fight with her about that. My children are my No. 1 priority and children are the No. 1 priority of all working mothers, but most women who work have to work. They need the financial income that comes from it. A lot of women need to work for a feeling of self worth.

Men have always felt that way, and there's absolutely no wrong with women to feel that way. When women feel that way, they bring more to being a parent. I have been as close a loving, giving mother as it's in me to be. I spend dinner with my children every night. I'm there for every school occasion when they need me. I have found a work life that doesn't keep me away 80 hours a week.

But most women do not work 80 hours a week. They have found a work life that allows them to be a good mother.

NEVILLE: Here's a question: a lot -- or a statement -- some women feel that if they don't work, they give up their careers, then suddenly they are dependent on men if the word divorce comes into play. What do you think about that? We'll talk about that after this break. Don't go anywhere.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

NEVILLE: And welcome back to TALKBACK LIVE. I am Arthel Neville, we are talking about stay-at-home moms versus working-moms. And Supria (ph) , you are a little bit of both, aren't you?

SUPRIA: Yes.

NEVILLE: What do you do, you drop-off the kids? Tell me your story. SUPRIA: I'm a dietitian, so I drop off my kids, my husband really supports me, he's a cardiologist, so he can do it. I drop the children at school. Sometimes he takes them and I go to work. I see my clients and then when it's time to pick them up, I come back and do the whole chauffeur thing on different classes. I make supper and then my husband comes home. It's working out great.

NEVILLE: Now, before I went to break I posed the question or the comment that some women say you know what, I have to work because come mad day, if the word divorce comes into play I need to have my own money. What do you think about that?

SUPRIA: If people have to work and they feel about divorce, I hope I never get divorced, but I think I have enough money.

NEVILLE: You have some cash stashed?

SUPRIA: Lots.

NEVILLE: Go ahead on, Supria. You got to have it -- you got to have it. OK.

HAGELIN: Can I address that question?

NEVILLE: Who is that? Rebecca? Go ahead.

HAGELIN: This is Rebecca. See this its where we need to have a paradigm shift as a culture. To enter marriage as a commitment. To enter motherhood as a commitment to those children, those precious children that God has placed in our hands. Childhood is very fleeting. It passes just like that.

I have a 10-year-old, a 13-year-old and a 14-year-old and you can barely remember when they were babies. It's not a dress rehearsal. You have one chance to do it right.

NEVILLE: I understand what you are saying but I have to let Sharman get in there for 30 seconds. Sharman, what do you have to say to what Rebecca just said?

STEIN: We are all for a world in which companies allow women to lead a very flexible work life that allows them to be home and do what Rebecca does. Every year we publish our 100 best companies list for working mothers in October. And we talk about he best companies in America and the best ones are allowing men and women to work at home, to flex their hours, to come back gradually after they have a baby, to take a very good maternity leave after giving birth because we support women's right, everyone's right.

NEVILLE: You are right. You know what, this is a topic that women will be debating forever. Rebecca Hegelin and Sharman Stein, thank you both for joining us today. That's all the time we have for today. You know would I love to see you guys in the studio audience or call me for free tickets -- they are free -- 1800-410-4CNN, and I'll be back tomorrow at 3:00. See you tomorrow.

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