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Interview With Mariane Pearl

Aired March 19, 2002 - 21:00   ET


LARRY KING, HOST: Tonight, Mariane Pearl, widow of "Wall Street Journal" correspondent Daniel Pearl and mother to be of their only child. Terrorist kidnappers murdered her husband, but she wants his legacy to be love and not hate. We'll spend an hour with an extraordinarily brave woman. She's next on LARRY KING LIVE.

We're in Washington with Mariane Pearl, the widow of murdered journalist Daniel Pearl. It's a pleasure, an honor to have you with us.


KING: And I thank you for spending this hour. We'll be taking phone calls later as well.

Some news today, free press. A division of Simon & Schuster has announced that it is going to publish a hardcover collection of "Wall Street Journal" articles written by Daniel Pearl and that you will write the introduction. The publication will also include memories of Danny from colleagues at the "Journal" and the profits will go to the Daniel Pearl Memorial Trust, about which we'll tell you later.

You happy with this idea?

PEARL: Yes, I like it. I like the idea that people can discover his work because they've heard about him, but, you know, not everybody has read what he wrote and they'll see that, you know, it makes sense.

KING: Because column -- people who write other than columnists at newspapers don't get well known by name.

PEARL: Exactly. Right.

KING: They cover stories. We read the story. We glance at the name, right?

PEARL: It is a good thing because it keeps you humble.

KING: Did he like that anonymity?

PEARL: Yes. I talked about him in the past tense and sometimes present tense...

KING: I understand. PEARL: ... so excuse me for that. But, yes, he likes being like second person these days. So he would be more of a writer.

KING: He didn't want to be a television broadcaster?

PEARL: Not that I know, no.

KING: How are you doing? Good days, bad days?

PEARL: Good days, bad days, of course. It is difficult. I mean, personally, of course, but also, I do have a lot of strength also.

KING: Where does that come from?

PEARL: That's a heavy question. Probably from -- well, I think mainly it comes from the whole experience we had in Karachi, which I can tell you about later. But it also comes from the conviction that I have that Danny, even though we went through a very difficult time, was not and never, like, submitted to his murderers. I am convinced that he kept his dignity until the end and that he never was like hijacked by fear.

KING: Don't think he ever like did confessions?

PEARL: No. I felt like -- that's what I felt when I heard the news about his death, is that they took his life, but they didn't take his spirit, you know. And so then I could not, you know, be also...

KING: Because you knew it was bravery.


KING: By the way, we thank you very much because we'll be showing throughout this hour pictures and home videos that have never been seen before of Daniel and his life, for which we appreciate this very much because I know this can't be easy for you. Yet you handle it with a -- are you kind of living above it, in a sense, the way you handle yourself?

PEARL: No. I'm trying -- you know, I'm a normal human being. So I have anger and I have all kinds of feelings, but I'm trying to overcome them because like the main goal that I have is that we should, you know, really stand up against terrorism and for doing that in a profound way, in a deep way, then we have to overcome something, I think, in ourselves.

KING: He's become a symbol of it now, hasn't he? Symbol of -- victim of reporting terror?

PEARL: Yes. I mean, like, if I get overwhelmed by anger, for instance, you know, where do I go with that? What do I do? You know, so if I succeed in overcoming it in myself and try to find real solutions to go on, also how do you go on?

KING: What was the wait like? There were how many days between you knew he was missing until you learned he was dead?

PEARL: About a month.

KING: A month. What was that like, not knowing? Not knowing is worse than knowing, isn't it?

PEARL: Not knowing. At some point, yes, it gets like that because, you know, the whole kidnapping didn't make any sense. Usually, you get kidnapped for a ransom or you get kidnapped for exchanging someone. In that case, we only had two e-mails that were really vague. The claims were really bizarre. And I had no news from Daniel. I had no idea, you know, whether he was alive. So I kept the faith. But by the end, you know, it was getting really, really difficult.

KING: How about that time when there were very high hopes? A reporter released that night. I spoke to the people at the "Journal" and they were ready to come on the day after, if it happened, it was that close. Were your hopes high there?

PEARL: Yes. Hopes were high when Omar Sheikh got arrested.

KING: And said he was alive?

PEARL: And said he was alive. So hopes were high at the time. But until the end, I did not give up my hopes that he was alive.

KING: Who told you he was dead?

PEARL: It was the head of the investigation team.

KING: In Pakistan?

PEARL: In Pakistan, so it's the Pakistani policeman.

KING: Did he call you?

PEARL: No, no, no, not at all. He's a remarkable person and has been so close to me. He's someone who has like a pledge to me, you know, that he will find Danny. So he really gave his whole life to...

KING: Oh, really? He got wrapped up in it?

PEARL: Completely, 100 percent. You know, so that day came, he was just exhausted by nights without sleep. And he was just like...

KING: Did he have to say anything or you knew?

PEARL: I knew when I saw him, but he was crying also when he came into the room.

KING: The only way they knew was from that tape which no one has ever seen. Right? You haven't seen it?

PEARL: No, I haven't seen it.

KING: Do you ever fear that someone is going to get hold of that tape and somebody is going to run it somewhere?

PEARL: Well, you know, of course. But, you know, if this person -- if anybody broadcast this tape, you know, I just want, you know, him to have the courage to face me or face his parents. You know, that's all I can say. You know, it's for nobody to broadcast. So, I'm hoping that...

KING: Do you ever think why did they do this? I mean, when you ask yourself the question. You know he wasn't with the CIA. Why did they do this, do you think?

PEARL: I think they did it because they're launching some kind of campaign, you know. They did it for different reasons. But one is political, you know, put an obstacle to Musharraf's alliance with Western countries and crack down on terrorism.

KING: So it's definitely opposed to Pakistan policy.

PEARL: Pakistan policy. They want to send a message to the West, you know, beware, you know, we will be ready to do anything. Leave our country. They want hatred to be stronger so people don't go to the east or, you know, they want fear, you know, people to fear.

KING: Did you know that Daniel was tracking a big story?


KING: Did you have any fear when he said, I'm going out to meet this guy?

PEARL: Not really, no because we had been in Pakistan for almost since September, not 11th, but a little bit later. And that's what we'd been doing. You know, we'd been reporting. We've been seeing people who had different opinions and reporting on this.

KING: So this was just another day, another story?

PEARL: Yes, kind of. I mean, like I knew it was a big story because it was related to Richard Reid, you know, the shoe bomber. So I knew it was a big story, an important one. But for -- like usually we spend a lot of time together, with Daniel, we report together. So that day, because I'm pregnant, you know, I was sick. So I said, I'm not going to go but I would have gone with him.

KING: You would have?

PEARL: Yes, of course. Yes.

KING: Mariane Pearl, who is pregnant, she will give birth in May to a boy.

PEARL: A boy.

KING: Her first. Mariane Pearl is our guest. We'll include your calls later. This is LARRY KING LIVE. By the way, I didn't mention that there is a Daniel Pearl Foundation. It supports a memorial trust and the foundation. For all information about it, go to

We'll be right back. Don't go away.


KING: Before we relive the event, do you think any of this had to do with Daniel being Jewish?

PEARL: I think, you know, Larry, that they try to use him as a symbol of something, right? It doesn't make any sense to me. Like, they used it as first of all he was a journalist, the journalist became a spy, then he became a symbol of being an American, which he is an American, but then he's also so many other origins and he didn't live in America. So being Jewish, whatever, I would say. You know, they used anything that could fit their hatred goal. And being Jewish because...

KING: Certainly leaves a lot of hatred.

PEARL: A lot of hatred because it's a lot of ignorance. So people associate it with the Middle East and without knowing anything.

KING: But when the wife is thinking of all the reasons, is that one that entered your mind?

PEARL: Honestly, at first, you mean before I knew anything?

KING: Yes.

PEARL: Well, you know, the second email which had been sent to us mentioned that. But to me...

KING: Saying what?

PEARL: Saying -- I'm sorry -- saying that we discovered he's not a CIA agent anymore. He's like a Mossad agent now.

KING: Israeli Secret Service.

PEARL: It didn't mention Israel but it said he's a Mossad agent. It was so ridiculous the whole thing, the whole crime was, you know, stupid that, I thought that they could have picked whatever.

KING: How did you first learn he was missing?

PEARL: Because he didn't come home. We were staying with my friend.

KING: Did you think big trouble when he didn't come home?

PEARL: Yes. I mean, like I know we have all these codes between us, right? So like especially when we were in Pakistan, if one or the other is going to an interview, every two hours we check with each other, we call.

KING: We should say you're a journalist, too. PEARL: Yes. So after an hour and a half, I actually called. I was a little worried. Then the phone was off. That told me something is wrong.

KING: Because his phone was off.

PEARL: His phone was off, which we never do also. So then I knew something was wrong.

KING: Did you contact the police right away?

PEARL: Not right away because I didn't want to be too...

KING: Alarmed.

PEARL: So I waited what was reasonable, and by 2:00 in the morning I called the U.S. consulate security services at the U.S. consulate and told him something was wrong. But at first we tried not to panic, you know. We just tried to do the right things.

KING: How did you hear from the culprits? What happened?

PEARL: So the next day when he evidently had been kidnapped, we had all police coming into our place. Danny and I were visiting a friend Astra in Karachi. And so all the police came. So they were from all different agencies, intelligence agencies.

KING: American?

PEARL: Pakistani at first, only Pakistani. But all kinds of people and asking questions and all these things. And also the American security officer came and asked questions. For about four days we were looking for him, but what happened is...

KING: Still hadn't heard anything?

PEARL: Still hadn't heard anything. But what happened was a little bit peculiar is that we had all the -- I had a lot of data, because I had Danny's computer. I knew who he was meeting. So what happened is that this house became the headquarters of the searching, of the investigation.

KING: Central point.

PEARL: Central point. And so we worked. And it was pretty unusual because you have four journalists and then anti-terrorist policemen. U.S. Pakistani, FBI also. But then we became the center of this investigation because we have much more data than anybody else. As it was progressing, before we heard anything, it was pretty obvious that we were getting into a network, a big network of terrorists.

KING: Did you ever think during those early days that he might have been killed, just outright killed?

PEARL: No. No. No, I had the feeling right away that he was in the hands of terrorists.

KING: And what was the first word from them? When did you get that?

PEARL: Got an e-mail, somebody called from L.A., from the "Wall Street Journal"...

KING: The e-mail was sent to them?

PEARL: The e-mail was actually to you, to CNN.

KING: To CNN, right.

PEARL: And other publications, other TVs. So somebody from the L.A. Bureau of the "Wall Street Journal" called us and said we received this e-mail, could it be Danny? Because there was a photo attached. That's how we know.

KING: Remember your first thought when you learned that?

PEARL: Well, the first thing I saw was the photo with their gun pointing at his head. I mean, it was alarming, but again, you know, I was focusing on trying to find him.

KING: And your hopes were always high or did you have days where you were really down?

PEARL: You know, in that kind of situation -- first of all, we were working, like we were looking for him, for Danny. So it is not like I was sitting at home and waiting. We were discovering more and more things about this murky network of terrorists, nexus. So that helped me, the fact that I was actually active, collaborating so strongly with the Pakistani police and the FBI.

We actually -- my journalist friends and I really made everything happen, like the coordination between the law enforcement agencies, obliged people to talk to each other, to collaborated, because the Pakistani police had great methods and they are really good policemen, very good human beings, but they had no resources whatsoever. So we had to buy a printer for them to...

KING: Really? And this detective who eventually told you, he was on it from the start?

PEARL: From the start. He's somebody I trusted right away. He was with me completely. He had no -- you know, he was not trying to hide anything because we were journalists or because he didn't know about us. He was like so keen since the beginning to find Danny. I really trusted him since the beginning. Then I realized that he didn't have a printer, as I said. But we bought them a phone so they could communicate. The had one car that you had to push you know, for it to start.

KING: Did they keep you posted of stories as they heard them?

PEARL: Everything, everything. yes. KING: We'll be right back with more with Mariane Pearl. She's with us for the full hour. Don't go away.


KING: We're back with Mariane Pearl. Everyone who has known him and has talked to us, personally and on the air, said that one, Daniel was not the type that would have been a foreign correspondent, that wanted to go cover wars. He was more of the gentle side. And that he was a very gentle soul. Both those statements true?

PEARL: Both statements true. That was the man I married.

KING: So what got him into this kind of situation of intrigue, which seems the opposite of what he was?

PEARL: Well, first of all, we were in Pakistan, you know, and not in Afghanistan during the whole war. And he used to say like, you know, it takes more courage not to go there -- to Afghanistan because you have to cover the war. So, no, we stayed there and also because I was pregnant. So we decided not to be in Afghanistan.

Now, you know, it is also somewhat -- he's not a Rambo in that sense, he's not a cowboy or anything. But he's also like a genuine journalist that would go for the big stories also. So he became more and more -- I mean, the situation made it like that also, because Pakistan became such an important hub for terrorists, you know. And --

KING: Did you have a desire as a journalist and expectant mother, to say, maybe we ought to go back to the states or something, or go to India, go somewhere else?

PEARL: You know, I think we like as a couple we also had made a choice, like we wanted to change the world. We had this thing.

KING: Idealistic.

PEARL: Idealistic. I think like we were not idealistic in the sense that we would go for danger just for the sake of danger. That's not us. We are not like this but we had this commitment of, yes, we wanted to make some difference. And our tool is journalism.

KING: Your parents are both gone now.


KING: Your father was Dutch and your mother was Cuban. Daniel's parents were Jewish. Did that work right away for the two of you?

PEARL: Perfect.

KING: That's a good mix?

PEARL: Yes. Perfect.

KING: Were you going to raise the boy in my particular faith?

PEARL: No, I mean like -- everybody gets to choose. I'm a Buddhist also, I didn't tell you that.

KING: This is a real mix.

PEARL: So no. Danny is like really respectful of his origins, you know? So he would share with me the cultural part of being Jewish, and I would share with him the cultural part of being a Buddhist. No, we wouldn't have But you know --.

KING: That was not part of the discussion?

PEARL: Yes, we talked about it like circumcision, for instance, you know?

KING: Will he be circumcised? In the United States he has to be.

PEARL: He has to be, really? OK, he'll be born in Paris so they don't necessarily do it.

KING: You have a name for him, by the way?

PEARL: Not 100 percent sure.

KING: But not Daniel?

PEARL: Not Daniel.

KING: Because that would be?

PEARL: That's a little bit heavy. I mean, I don't want like -- he's also an identity by himself. An entity by himself so I don't want too much pressure on him.

KING: He's going to learn a lot about his father, isn't he?

PEARL: Yes, he will. Definitely.

KING: Boy. Let me -- would you tell us how you met?

PEARL: Danny and I?

KING: Yes.

KING: Before we talk about the situation there.

PEARL: We first met in Paris in front of the Paris de Plaise (ph), that's where the president of France stays. And he was -- we were -- I was dancing with my mother. My mother and I would dance a lot together, because of our Cuban origins. So he started dancing also, and then we met because we were both journalists. So we were introduced to each other. And he was at the time actually going out with a lady that was my opposite, a tall, blond, blue-eyed girl. And so we didn't like -- we just like wrote each other for a long time about our trips. He was traveling in the Middle East and Iran a lot. And I was traveling to Cuba. So we would write about the countries.

KING: Who were you writing for?

PEARL: I was doing radio at the time. I was hosting a show on migrations, international migrations.

KING: So when did it come that -- huh, huh, huh, you became romantic?

PEARL: Romantic, a few months later he came to visit me in Paris and I came one morning and made him a big omlette, sun-dried tomato omlette. And I fell in love.

KING: And how long after that were you married?

PEARL: About a few months. Yes. We got married like -- as soon as we met, you know, we were mates.

KING: Did you want to have children? Was that discussed early? Because both traveling journalists, maybe he said we'll put it off for a while?

PEARL: I decided to have a kid with Danny because I loved him. It was not like part of my agenda, that I was going to get married and have a child in my life. You know, I was open. I didn't know what to do. But because it was him, then I decided that I would do that.

KING: And married life was like what with him?

PEARL: Oh, it was great. You know, Danny's like this kind of character that has a lot of imagination and that he likes to be like silly and, you know. So at the same time we laughed a lot. We had like a friendship, you know. But also he was -- we were challenging ourselves a lot. For instance, we were living in Paris in a beautiful place where you could see the Eiffel Tower, but then we decided to move to Bombay.

KING: What was that like?

PEARL: That was a challenge. It was a big challenge.

KING: Bombay, I bet.

PEARL: Bombay is a big challenge. Yes.

KING: Did you enjoy each other's learning about each other's culture? Because these are really disparate cultures that you come from?

PEARL: Yes. But he really chose me, so I chose also him as a person that was like genuinely before me is interested by the world. That's what he was doing when I met him. That's probably why he decided to marry me.

KING: Was he happy at the "Wall Street Journal"?

PEARL: Yes. I think he was really proud of his paper.

KING: He liked the people he worked for?

PEARL: He liked his colleagues, definitely had a lot of fun and he respected them a lot. And I think they're pretty good journalists, most of them. Sincerely, I think so.

KING: We'll get Mariane's thoughts on the situation there, where it might be going, where all this might lead. And more about memories of Danny. And your phone calls, as well.

As we go to break, we've been made available to us, a shot of the wedding. You will hear a fiddle being played. You won't see Daniel, but he's playing the fiddle. Watch.





KING: Welcome back to LARRY KING LIVE with Mariane Pearl. You met with President Bush. What was that like?

PEARL: He's been really great. He's been very human, you know, and very committed in helping me finding the culprits, and very understanding of the situation. It was nice.

KING: You also met with Attorney General John Ashcroft on the day they indicted Saeed, right?


KING: What was that like?

PEARL: Also, very constructive meeting because he really listened to -- I gave him the most detailed account of what happened on the ground, you know, just to tell him that this is like we're having all this Pakistani police fighting this proxy war for us. It is a war against international terrorism and these people, as I told you, have no resources whatsoever. So I gave him, you know, as many details as I could of what it was like in Karachi.

KING: You were giving advice? You would say we should help the Pakistani police?

PEARL: Yes, more than advice, actually, really emphasized that these people are fighting for us, you know. They're on the frontline because Karachi is becoming this -- Pakistan but Karachi also...

KING: What's it like to live there?

PEARL: To live in Karachi?

KING: Yes. Is it a swirl (ph)?

PEARL: It's a city with people and, you know, it's also a city, like a big city, rather poor, has it's poor area, you know, and special areas also, but...

KING: Do you have any sense of danger?

PEARL: Well, it's known to be a, you know, kidnapping capital of the world. You know, there's a lot of kidnapping that had been going on. The truth is, Larry, that during the kidnapping of Danny, I can't remember how many, but there were about 10 or 11 people got killed, Pakistani people got killed. And like, recently, again, some foreigners get killed in a church in Islamabad this time.

KING: I know.

PEARL: But the reality is that how many doctors have been killed over there just because the same terrorists are trying to destroy the civil society.

KING: You are satisfied in your mind that the United States government, the "Journal", the Pakistani police did everything they could?

PEARL: Pakistani police did everything they could. Yes, I think people did everything they could. It was just a very overwhelming situation because you are dealing with people who you can't really assess, their power, what they're going to do. I mean, nobody -- honestly, people who knew Danny but also people who read the e-mails did not think that they were going to actually kill him.

KING: Because it was senseless.

PEARL: Because it was senseless.

KING: I mean, well, if you have a prisoner and you want something, why kill the...

PEARL: Exactly. Exactly. You know, nobody felt that. And the people who knew Danny then thought no way anybody is going to have the guts to kill somebody who is just like such a gentle person. You know? So, people did what they could, but they were also, I guess...

KING: You also met with President Chirac?


KING: What did he say?

PEARL: President Chirac also was very interested to learn about the field experience. The truth is that it's difficult for these people to actually know what's going on on the field. They have so much -- big decisions to make, you know. So I just did very simply told him this is what happened. He was very interested and very aware that, again, this war against international terrorism has to be international. It cannot be just the Pakistani and the United States to fight it, but Europe.

KING: Everybody has to be committed, anywhere in the world right?


KING: Buy they way, I want to salute Steven Tractenberg (ph) at George Washington University -- a good friend of mine -- because they announced last week there's going to be a scholarship for Danny's unborn son.

PEARL: Yes, that's beautiful.

KING: And he will get to -- that's a nice gift.

PEARL: Especially it's a nice university.

KING: Yes. It's right downtown Washington. It's a good school.


KING: Let's take a call for Mariane Pearl. Hull, Massachusetts. Hello.

CALLER: Yes, hi.


CALLER: First, I'd like to extend my condolences to you, Mariane, and I commend your courage. My question is what do you plan to tell your son when the time comes about his father?

PEARL: OK. I will definitely, you know -- I want to convey to him the value that, you know, that held Danny through his life, which is very simple truth, somebody very keen to search for truth. I want to convey to him, you know, his sense of -- how genuinely he went to different people and tried also to go beyond, expand the limits of his tolerance, you know, of his knowledge of other people. That's the kind of values I really want him to know about his father. And I think I'll do a good job of doing that, but a lot of other people also will help.

KING: He'll learn the full story, won't he?

PEARL: Yes. Yes. But it's not over because we have one person is in jail now in Pakistan, but there are other people that are still free. And I need these people to be arrested. I mean, I need justice to be done.

KING: You need that.

PEARL: I need that. KING: That word closure, do you need closure?

PEARL: Closure.

KING: Closure, like you need an end to the story?

PEARL: I need justice to be done. So that's also going to help. Like, you know, it's a different story if you have to explain to your son that his father has been kidnapped and killed and the people disappear or, you know, that justice has been done and -- yes, closure.

KING: Are they still working it hard, the case?


KING: You're positive of that? Because sometimes after a story ends, other problems develop and we go on.

PEARL: No, but I'm making sure that -- that's one of the reasons why I met with President Bush, President Chirac and President Musharraf, because I asked them personally, you know, that this (UNINTELLIGIBLE).

KING: How did President Musharraf strike you?

PEARL: President Musharraf struck me as somebody courageous. I think he's sincerely trying to get rid of terrorists. He's also somebody who is in a very difficult position in his own country.

KING: Boy, is he.

PEARL: Yes, he is. And even in, you know, his personal safety and everything, so it's a very difficult situation. So he struck me as someone very good for Pakistan, but someone also who needs help. They cannot be left alone, again, like the police.

KING: As we mentioned to you earlier, we'll be back, we'll have more calls. Mariane has made available to us pictures and home videos that have never been seen before. And here is Danny in his 20s traveling in Russia.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... especially people that maybe aren't Jewish to understand how you can live in a country for so long and not feel that the Russians are your brothers too and -- you don't consider yourselves Russian.

If someone was actively a Jew, but didn't -- was not a refusant, did not try to...


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is it much different than a refusant?




UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is the (UNINTELLIGIBLE) plate, Passover plate. And we should go over each symbol that is on this plate. This is the matza, which is bread that our forefathers, when they were leaving Egypt, they didn't have time to have leavened bread, so they I had to put together rice cake.


KING: That was a tape of Daniel celebrating Passover on a train in China. He had an interesting life. Hard to hear his voice?

PEARL: Yes. Hard to hear his voice, see his images. You want to go in the video and just see him again.

KING: And snatch him back.


KING: You told me that you probably want to live in the United States.

PEARL: Yes. I might, yes. I just don't want to -- two last places we stayed was Bombay and in Paris. So I don't like feel the courage to be in the place.

KING: How soon might you move to the states?

PEARL: Well, I have to deliver my baby first.

KING: I know, of course. Do you want to go back to work as a journalist?

PEARL: Yes. Definitely.

KING: Anything you want to cover, to do? Any particular kind of -- radio?

PEARL: Oh, in terms of media, which terms of media?

KING: What kind?

PEARL: Yes, I do everything. I'm an open minded person. I write, but I also do radio.

KING: You like television?

PEARL: I like television.

KING: I've got to ask you, your wedding was a Jewish Buddhist wedding, right?


KING: What was that like?

PEARL: We wrote it.

KING: I'm trying to imagine it. Orillia, Ontario for Mariane Pearl, hello.

CALLER: Yes, Ms. Pearl. Compliment you on your courage. Would you want to encourage or discourage your son to follow in his father's footsteps?

PEARL: Well, I think, you know it is going to be his choice. My feeling is that with the kind of legacy he gets from him and from me, he's going to have to answer for himself a lot of questions. But truth of the matter is that if he wants to be -- I try to make him a free person. I don't want to make put too much.

KING: You would be excited if he wanted to be a foreign correspondent would you -- the trouble spots.

PEARL: Can I say don't go, honestly? I mean, 20 years from now it is going to be hard to say don't go. It depends on the kind of life I'm going to live but then, you know...

KING: How have you reacted, yourself, to all the attention you have gotten? You've become a worldwide famous person.

PEARL: Right.

KING: By being a victim.

PEARL: Yes, right. Because basically because my husband has been kidnapped and murdered, it isn't because I've done something great.

KING: You have. You have shown bravery.

PEARL: But again, the bottom line is that I'm just an ordinary person. And this bravery, I think, ordinary people have it, basically. Everybody is capable of, like, you know, going beyond revenge and trying to find real solutions if you want to change the world for our kids. So I think, you know I'm very...

KING: You're beyond revenge?

PEARL: I'm not -- yes.

KING: You want closure. So you want those responsible to pay for what they did.

PEARL: I want justice to be done. That's very important.

KING: But beyond that.

PEARL: But beyond that, because like the problem is like, we need to -- revenge is just going to bring us to a dead end. And this country, for instance, the United States, you had September 11 and it was a trauma and it was a very difficult thing but what it says to us is that it is targeting us, ordinary people, citizens.

So my feeling is that -- and that's why I come here and I've talked to all these people is because it's for us citizens and ordinary people to stand up and fight with this great determination. That's all I'm doing.

KING: By the way, where were you on September 11?

PEARL: I was in (UNINTELLIGIBLE) , that is in Behar. That's like the most remote and medieval state of India. I was doing a story there.

KING: Was Daniel with you?

PEARL: Yes, absolutely.

KING: How did you hear about it?

PEARL: Well, we were coming back from this march. We were following a disciple of Ghandi who was going into the most dangerous area of India and just walking and having all these villagers following him.

KING: You like stuff like this?

PEARL: Well, that's what I was doing. And then we went back to a hotel and put the TV on and saw like in the middle age there and we saw the first just collapse like in front of us. It was pretty real. That's how we found out.

KING: Did Daniel immediately get on the phone?


KING: Got to go cover this, be part of this story.

PEARL: Yes. He was South Asia bureau chief. Afghanistan was not exactly part of his beat, but Pakistan was.

KING: Calling New York.

PEARL: Calling New York, calling everyone.

KING: Mariane Pearl is our guest. Here is more video never seen before of Daniel as we go to break.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Taking the first photograph known to man of the famous immobile large orange river squid. No pictures.



KING: I want to remind you again, before we say good night to Mariane, that if you want information on the Daniel Pearl Memorial Trust or the Daniel Pearl Foundation, you can contact -- get all the information and addresses, phone numbers at

Hatfield, Pennsylvania, hello.

CALLER: Good evening and hello.


CALLER: Mrs. Pearl, if you could give a message to the terrorists that murdered your husband provided there...

PEARL: What would I say to them?

KING: Yes.

PEARL: I just hope that -- these people have become like the shame of the world. And, you know, I just want to say that as far as I'm concerned anyway, they haven't achieved their goal at all, which was they perpetrate fear, paralyze.

KING: Didn't work?

PEARL: It didn't work. It didn't work on Danny. And that's where I get my strength. And I'm hoping also that it is not going to work on the people who are watching us tonight. Despite the suffering, I mean, I am suffering, but I would not let them win.

KING: You tell me you're going to go back to Karachi.

PEARL: I will go back, yes. Eventually, I will go back.

KING: Don't you have very sad memories? Mixed?

PEARL: I have mixed, yes, because, as I told you, I would be keen on seeing again those people that have really helped me through this whole ordeal. They're Pakistani. So it's not a matter of...

KING: (UNINTELLIGIBLE) and you have a special tie to this detective.

PEARL: Yes, I have -- and they're great human beings. I mean, he is one of the most astonishing person that I've met in the last year really, this person and others that I met there. So, you know, if you ask me what is Pakistan for me, it's first and foremost these people who have had so much respect for me and so much commitment in trying to find Danny. So just like (UNINTELLIGIBLE) the person that just called, even these terrorists haven't succeeded in making me hate Pakistan or making me hate Muslims. In no way have they achieved their goal.

KING: In fact, all they've done is strengthen your resolve, right?


KING: So the reverse happened.

PEARL: Yes. I hope in me and I hope also in other people.

KING: Because wasn't Daniel trying to tell their story?

PEARL: Danny was...

KING: He was trying to learn the other side.

PEARL: Yes, exactly. Danny was, you know, as he always does, he goes to people, listens to them and listens to them for real. He goes unarmed with a pen or a Palm Pilot in his pocket and that's all he does. So he would have told their story.

KING: Has it been difficult going to these memorial services?

PEARL: It has been because, you know, it is like acknowledgment day after day that he won't be back. But also, they were beautiful. It is like everything, you know, that happened from the e-mail that I received from so many people that it is just so beautiful e-mails to the memorials just like making me more and more proud of my husband.

KING: By the way, what reaction have you gotten from around the world?

PEARL: Oh, I've had amazing -- during the whole ordeal in Pakistan, I don't know how people get my e-mail, you know, but they sent me letters saying, we really stand by you. We never be defeated, and whatever you need, we're here. It was like Danny's -- part of the family also. That's from all over the United States, all over Europe, Asia, Africa. And there was like just beautiful because I could feel -- there was evil going on In Karachi with Danny. But at the same time, it's just this force, this strength of coming from all over the world to just make the good happen. And that's, you know, it's very comforting.

KING: At the memorial service in California, the rabbis officiated that, right? That was kind of a Jewish memorial?

PEARL: Yes, I mean, there was a rabbi (UNINTELLIGIBLE).

KING: But you said living with him was like living in a comic book. So many things happened to us all the time. You also said, that for several weeks before he was abducted, you asked him whether they were ready to settle down. His response was, no, we're going to change the world.


KING: He felt on a mission then as a reporter?

PEARL: Yes. We both did, though. That was also in our wedding contract. We have a very famous for us wedding contract that we wrote.

KING: You wrote your own contract.

PEARL: We wrote our own contracts.

KING: And what did you pledge to each other?

PEARL: A number of points, but it's a very ambitious one. And one is that we didn't phrase change the world, but like, you know, it was like never cease to go to different culture and open to different people. And never lose sense of humor. And this thing of changing the world, though, it seems like really crazy. I mean, it's big words. It was something that was a theme, life. That's why we moved to Bombay. That's why we did all we did. And we felt nothing new, but as journalists, you know, you just go and you...

KING: We have a minute left. Does it help you to talk about him?

PEARL: To you?

KING: Or is it painful?

PEARL: It depends. It depends on the moments. Like, yes, it helps me if I can convey, you know, the strength that he gives me also and this message that goes for people, it helps me a lot. For more intimate things, sometimes I just keep it to myself.

KING: You're not going to replace him?


KING: But you'll have a wonderful healthy boy.

PEARL: Yes. I hope so.

KING: Thank you so much, Mariane.

PEARL: Thanks a lot.

KING: A pleasure, an honor meeting you.

PEARL: Thank you.

KING: Mariane Pearl, the widow of the murdered journalist Daniel Pearl. Again, for any information about helping various funds,

When we come back, we'll tell you about tomorrow night on LARRY KING LIVE. Don't go away.


KING: You may have heard about this, but Liza Minnelli just got married. And she hasn't done an interview, but she will. Tomorrow night, live from London, Liza Minnelli is our special guest on LARRY KING LIVE. Might be interesting.

And another thing that's always interesting is "NEWSNIGHT." And the host is Aaron Brown. And he's in New York. And we'll see him Friday when we're there with Jon Stewart. Aaron, take it away.




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