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CNN Talkback Live

What is Operation Candyman?; How Much Responsibility Should Rusty Yates Take?; Stats Show 20 Percent of Boys and Girls Are Having Sex Before 14

Aired March 19, 2002 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ARTHELL NEVILLE, HOST: Hello, everybody. Welcome to TALKBACK LIVE. I'm Arthel Neville. Yesterday during this hour you heard Attorney General John Ashcroft announce a government sting called operation candyman. Alleged child pornographers from all over the country are being rounded up, identified from discussion groups and Web sites catering to people whose dark fantasies involve children.

We will talk to an FBI agent about that in a minute, and you're going to meet a lot of other interesting people on this show and you are going to want to comment on this, so get the phones going. Give me a ring a 1-800-310-4CNN. Or, email me: talkback@cnn.com.

Before we get to that, let's look at today's lineup.

They walk the walk and talk the talk, so should you be shocked that about 20 percent of middle school kids have sex by age 14? Where does the pressure come from, and how young is too young? Also does Russell Yates bear any responsibility for what happens to his children?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RUSSELL YATES, FATHER OF SLAIN CHILDREN: The question is, would I go back and do things differently? Sure. But were my decisions reasonable at the time? I think so, yes.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

NEVILLE: And predators on the Internet. A government sting met a web of child pornographers and their clients.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOHN WALSH, HOST, "AMERICA'S MOST WANTED": They've taken down some very serious pedophiles, some of them Catholic priests, school bus drivers, camp counselors, people who work with children like little league coaches and the sad thing is that there are 7,000 pedophiles that who subscribe to that one chatroom, and to that one Web site.

(END VIDEO CLIP) NEVILLE: Indeed scary. Operation Candyman began in Houston, and joining us now is Bob Doguim, the public information officer for the Houston office of the FBI. Thanks for being here.

BOB DOGUIM, FBI SPOKESMAN: Thank you.

NEVILLE: Now I want to ask you first off, were you surprised at all by how widespread this problem is and in fact who is in involved?

DOGUIM: We are not really surprised as to how widespread it is. We know that it is a terrible problem that we need to be addressing and we are addressing. It is the first case at this level we have worked out of this division nationally.

NEVILLE: How do you go about tracking these people?

DOGUIM: Well, initially what we do, and using the case as an example, an agent went on-line in an under-cover capacity, posing as someone interested in receiving these kinds of images of child pornography.

In this case we later became aware of this e-group called "Candyman" and in fact joined that e-group and it was through that membership, if you will, that we began to receive just several, several images and became aware of other sites like this.

NEVILLE: Now, I know you mentioned you were not really surprised by how widespread, but I mean the people involved, we are talking about school bus drivers, priests, I mean people -- counselors...

DOGUIM: Yes. That -- that certainly is a shocking and disturbing thing to find out when in fact we do. I would hate to say that after 17 years of doing this, of being an FBI agent myself that I have seen everything, but you know, it is just -- just -- it is still shocking, it really is still shocking especially when you think of the kinds of images that were sent back and forth.

NEVILLE: Is it something you can share with us?

DOGUIM: I do not know that anyone can actually put it into words, to be perfectly honest with you. I think the best way to describe it is just shocking and appalling.

NEVILLE: Disgusting,

DOGUIM: Just disgusting and probably even worse than that.

NEVILLE: What happens to these offenders?

DOGUIM: Well, as of now at least, the 7 that were arrested in the Houston division, they have had their initial appearances. They are being held at the federal detention centers, and the process, the judicial process, will continue from there.

NEVILLE: So what could happen to them? DOGUIM: I am not exactly sure of the penalty phase. Exactly what kind of time they can serve for this, but this is being not only aggressively investigated by the FBI here locally, and nationally, but I can tell you that it is being aggressively prosecuted also here in the division and throughout the country.

NEVILLE: I cannot let you go without asking about the children. What sort of children are getting themselves, I do not want to say getting themselves, because certainly not at fault, but getting involved into this and being sucked into this?

DOGUIM: And you are absolutely right. I would not use the term "getting themselves" into it. These are children that are obviously being victimized and abused. We find that that there are children that were family members, are abusing them, children who have been placed in the care and custody of folks that we would think they would be safe with, and still others that perhaps are children that have been abducted or perhaps even runaways.

NEVILLE: Just sick. Agent Doguim, thank you so much for joining me here today. And right now I want to introduce you to a woman who takes this very personally. She is Julie Posey. Ms. Posey is something of a vigilante going into chatrooms and posing as a child to lure and catch pedophiles. And her ability to find them and turn them over to authorities has resulted in dozens of convictions.

Julie, thanks for being here. And I want to ask you first of all to explain to me some of the -- tell me about the conversations, the on-line chats. I want to know what attracts these pedophiles?

JULIE POSEY, CHILD PORN VIGILANTE: I go into a chatroom, and I tell them in a profile that I am a 13-year-old girl from Colorado and that is all I have in there. They instantly send me instant messages and they are not starting out with hi, how are you, what is your name? They are starting out with, are you home alone, what are you wearing, can I call you? And then it just goes from there.

Almost immediately they get into sexually explicit conversations and sooner or later they want to meet the child face to face.

NEVILLE: What can you tell a parent or children what to watch out for? How do you avoid this?

POSEY: One of the most important things you can do is keep the computer in a common area in the home. Don't give the kid a laptop and a subscription to an on-line Internet service provider and expect everything to be OK. Don't use the computer as a baby sitter. You need to monitor what your children are doing on-line.

NEVILLE: But in addition to that, what can you tell parents? So if the child is on-line, I mean they are being lured, and so what are some of the catch phrases, if there are any, that you can tell children, wait a minute. If you see this, this is not a necessarily nice person on the other end?

POSEY: If that person is saying anything that makes the child feel uncomfortable, they will be asking for personal information: Give me your phone number, name, what school do you go to. Do not give out that information, and if it does happens to you, tell an adult.

NEVILLE: Pamela, I just saw you earlier, kind of shaking your head in disgust when you were listening to these stories. What is your reaction to all of this?

PAMELA: I feel that, I am a very fortunate person not to be raising young children at this stage of life. I think that parents have a tremendous burden, and they need to be extremely vigilant, particularly when they're children are in other children's homes.

NEVILLE: Absolutely. Isn't that the case, Julie?

POSEY: It is.

NEVILLE: Let me ask you this: what are some of the myths out there regarding pedophiles? You know, people think they fit a certain profile. That is not the case.

POSEY: No, that is not the case. People believe that a pedophile is someone wearing a trench coat hanging out near elementary schools offering children candy, and that is not the case. It can be anyone. It could be your neighbors, friends, and as we saw in this Operation Candyman, it can be nurses, police officers, bus drivers, all kinds of people.

NEVILLE: We have a phone caller now. I would like to talk to Larry, go ahead, Larry, what -- Ray -- pardon me, what are your thoughts, Ray?

CALLER: I would like the world to wake up to reality. I mean, everybody is acting like this is something new. Police, clergymen, come on people, this is the world. There are a lot of sick people in this world. I am one of those statistics that was not taken care of, and I am suffering for it now. I am still in therapy, but the candyman thing, wake-up world, people are sick out there, monitor your children, thank you.

NEVILLE: Ray, before you go, Ray, what can you say to try to help other people avoid the hurt and pain that you are suffering now?

CALLER: Well, the thing I can say is do not be afraid to talk to somebody. It took a lot of courage for me to bring up what happened to my therapist and I made that step, and for parents and their children, watch the Internet. I do not have a computer, at my house, but my daughter is with one, and I am very concerned but I know she is being monitored. So the world has to watch out because there are so many sick people, and they come in every form and every shape.

NEVILLE: And Julie, you know this as well because this is part of the reason you are involved in this now, because you too were victimized.

POSEY: Yes, I was. And I have to agree with Ray. It does take a lot of courage to come forth and report the crime that happened to you, but if you don't, there is going to be other victims. That person that offended you is going to go on and offend others. You have to do something.

NEVILLE: Julie, thank you for doing something. Julie Posey, thank you so much for being with us today.

And up next, Rusty Yates talking to the media and on the defensive. Should he shoulder the blame for the deaths of his children?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

NEVILLE: And welcome back. Sentence has been passed and the gag order is off. Andrea Yates' family has plenty to say, most of it about husband Rusty and what more he might have done to protect his five children.

Her brother Brian told ABC's "Good Morning America" that Andrea's husband Rusty was unemotional and inattentive to his sister's needs, and Andrea's mother complains Rusty said he'd never changed a diaper even after the couple's fourth child was born.

Well, Rusty Yates was talking too, and last night on "LARRY KING LIVE," he defended himself.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

YATES: You are probably right. I mean it's hard on everybody. You know, they do not see it in me, you know, but it is impossible for me. I lost everything. In one day, one hour my children are gone and my wife is gone. And it was like, I felt like I had been robbed. They act as though, I should have seen this coming. The children passed away on June 20. We went to a doctor on June 18, and he is a trained professional. He was supposed to be able to recognize these kinds of things, I am not. I am just a guy, you know.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

NEVILLE: Let's meet a woman who has gotten to know Russell Yates and the rest of the family well over the past few months. Suzy Spencer is the author of "Breaking Point." It is an insider's account of the Andrea Yates. Also with us is Kay Schwarzberg, a family law attorney who mostly represents fathers in custody cases; and attorney and KABC radio talk show host, Gloria Allred. Good to see all of you.

GLORIA ALLRED, TALK SHOW HOST: Thank you.

NEVILLE: Gloria, let's start with you. Before we get to that discussion though, I want to toss it to Bill Hemmer now in the news room who has some comments from President Bush -- Bill.

(INTERRUPTED FOR CNN COVERAGE OF A LIVE EVENT)

NEVILLE: OK, welcome back. We are discussing Russell Yates and whether or not he should bear any responsibility for the death of his five children. Joining me again, Gloria Allred.

I want to ask you. Gloria, you just heard Russell Yates say that he should not have expected to see any of it coming because, quote, "he is just a guy." Well, he happens to be the guy who was the husband of Andrea Yates. Should he have recognized any red flags?

ALLRED: Well absolutely. He was her husband. He was the father of those five children. You know you can't just blame doctors. You have to be aware yourself of your wife's condition. I heard his interview on Larry King last night, Arthel, and he seemed to indicate that when she called him after the killings that she said more words then than she said in a long time.

Well, if this is a wife and a mother, who is barely speaking, who may not be saying more than ten words a day, why are you leaving this mother alone with the children? She sounds as though she may not have been very well able to even take care of herself. You should not leave her alone even for an hour, and I do not think he can say that he should be absolved of all responsibility.

NEVILLE: Kate, would you like to respond to that?

KAY SCHWARZBERG, ATTORNEY: Well, my basic response is this is an unfortunate situation and we are turning it into the typical "hate- male" agenda. If we are going to accuse Russell Yates, then we might as well look at society that is being driven by feminists who are unfortunately ignoring and condoning violence by women, chastising researchers regarding by violence by women, and ignoring the entire issue, and unfortunately keeping women down, not making them culpable, responsible and accountable for their actions.

ALLRED: I think that this father needs to be accountable as well. If it is true, and he denies it, but if the claim of the relatives of Andrea Yates is true, that he did not change a diaper after the fourth child was born, then I say there is something really wrong with that acceptance of a very strict and rigid gender role.

You know, fathers are tired when they come home after work, but mothers who have been caring for five children all day have also been working, and they are tired too. And both parents need to pitch in and take responsibility for the children, and it should not all put on one parent.

NEVILLE: Suzy. I know you want to jump in there. Let me let Lynn jump in here for second so we can get the people involved in this.

Lynn, you have heard all the comments here. What do you have to say about all this?

LYNN: I think that the father has his own plate full, as they said. She has to have a support group from elsewhere. Where was her mother? Where were her brothers and sisters? They can criticize now, they can jump in and say, he didn't do this, he didn't do that. But what did they do? Who raised this girl and should have known before that she needed help and gave her the help when she was younger. Maybe it would have solved some of the problems.

NEVILLE: Suzy, I would like to hear from you now, because you have spent many, many hours speaking to Russell Yates and the family.

SUZY SPENCER, AUTHOR, "BREAKING POINT": Well, I think there is probably blame enough to go around everywhere, but I do know that what Rusty says is what is in the medical records that yes, he was very helpful.

But I also know that a lot of the nurses at Devereaux Texas Treatment Center say that Rusty was not there for Andrea, and then certainly when you get up in court and Debbie Holmes (ph) , who was Andrea's best friend, under sworn testimony, says she begged Rusty get her help, and pointed out that Andrea was smelling bad, that she had not taken a bath in days, she offered to help bathe Andrea.

Doris said, don't worry, who was Rusty's mother, don't worry, we will take care of it. She said Rusty said she only needs vitamin B, and she was at that point, only taking a quarter cup of liquids a day, so...

NEVILLE: Suzy, do you feel that Rusty sincerely did not see anything was wrong with his wife?

SPENCER: I think that Rusty truly didn't, because I think that Rusty is so focused on what Rusty is seeing and he will blank out anything else. And her family was there for her. During the first hospital stay in 2001, right after her father died from what I understand, her mother, Andrea's mother took care of the children and I do know that Andrea's mother and her brother Brian were there on the day that Andrea was first taken to the Devereaux Texas Treatment Network, and Brian wanted to sit next to Andrea. As they went to the treatment network, Rusty said no, get in the back seat.

NEVILLE: So John, let me let John here jump in, excuse me for a second, Gloria, you just heard that apparently, according to go what Suzy is saying, that Rusty Yates has been very supportive all along and he sincerely didn't notice -- detect anything was wrong with his wife.

JOHN: I think he is trying to get out of responsibility. He went against medical advice, ultimately he was responsible for the welfare of his children. He did not do it and did not call on the other members of his family, and I think he should be charged with child neglect and child endangerment. I also think that the doctor who took her off her medication should be charged with malpractice.

NEVILLE: Go ahead, Gloria.

ALLRED: I just wanted to add that apparently the doctors who he wants to blame, or at least one of the doctors has indicated in the medical records that she should not get pregnant again, or that if she did it could risk her going into a postpartum depression again.

He seemed on "LARRY KING" to discount that, to suggest that somehow, well if she did get pregnant again and got depressed again, they could just go and medicate here again. What kind of husband will take that risk with his wife's health? It really concerns me that he would ignore that kind -- kind of medical advice and also the medical advice that she not be left alone. Why was she left alone even for an hour?

SPENCER: We are talking about two different doctors and I agree with you a ton, but the first doctor, Dr. Starbranch, Eileen Starbranch said in the medical notes that this will surely guarantee another episode of postpartum depression psychosis. So Rusty was warned and you are right, he did ignore the warnings, but 2001, the Dr. Mohamed Saeed who he is talking about, says in court that he saw Andrea 30 minutes at a time, several times. But the medical records show the complete opposite, that he saw her for perhaps 15 minutes per hospital stay, one time.

NEVILLE: Robin, from Arizona, you are on the air. Go ahead. What do you have to say?

CALLER: Rusty Yates completely failed as a father as far as I am concerned. He had a responsibility to those children. Whether Andrea was homicidal or suicidal, either way, he blew it. He dropped the ball. He should have, even if he thought there was only a little something wrong, he should have known not to leave her alone. The only thing that should have been even close to as bad as what Andrea Yates did would have been if she had committed suicide in front of her children. He had a responsibility to those kids and he blew it. He should be sitting in prison right along side of her.

NEVILLE: Daryll, you are a father of three, did you say?

DARYLL: Ms. Allred, don't rob a bank tomorrow and them blame it on your husband. If that guy had five kids, he was off providing for his family. He had a doctor for the wife as well. So can't put all of the blame on this guy. You can't.

ALLRED: Well, he has got to take some of the responsibility. And that is what I am talking about.

You have responsibility to your wife and children if you are married. You need to take that responsibility seriously. And I think he needs to bear his fair share of the responsibility. To date, I have not heard him do that.

NEVILLE: Kay, I haven't heard from you in a while. What would you like to add to this?

SCHWARZBERG: This is absolutely typical of absolutely giving no credit to fathers for the devotion and sacrifice they make going to work. And we even want to blame them for pregnancy.

If this woman was in such dire straits, her entire family should have been there. If she smelled, they would have smelled her. If they loved her, they would have bathed her. This is the typical situation where we want to blame the father if things go wrong and only credit a mother when things go right. We have got to stop this typical hate-male agenda. ALLRED: She tried to commit suicide twice. She has been hospitalized before. She was suffering from depression. She had been taken off the drug that helped her in the past. These are all danger signs.

(CROSSTALK)

SCHWARZBERG: Gloria, take the lawsuit. It is a good...

(CROSSTALK)

ALLRED: You know what? As much as a father works during the day, he has still to come home and assume responsibility at night. And I think he should have seen some warning signs.

NEVILLE: Suzy Spencer, Gloria Allred, and Kay Schwarzberg, thank you so much for joining me here today.

Is your middle-schooler too sexy for his or his own good? What is up with all the belly shirts and the Britney Spears wanna-bes? Wait until you hear how many kids are really having sex before age 14.

We will get to that after the news.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

NEVILLE: And welcome back. I'm Arthel Neville.

Let's talk about sex, baby. Apparently, too many babies, relatively speaking, are talking about sex. The problem is, they are not just talking. Take a look at these numbers. Statistics though show that one in five girls and boys have sex before they are 14 years old. What is going on?

I have a bunch of teenagers in the audience today. And we need to talk.

Clayton, you are up first. Stand up for me, please, and tell me what -- the conversations you hear at your school or in your peer groups.

CLAYTON: Well, a lot of times at school, you will a lot of people talking about they did this, they did that. And, really, I think it is a thing about seeing who is cool, you know? There is a lot of peer pressure out there to see who can do what and go how far.

NEVILLE: And it is too bad. It is too much. It is too soon. Do you agree?

CLAYTON: Yes, I agree completely. I think premarital sex is wrong. God made it to be a special thing, but to be a special person with that one special person. And I just think that is how it should be.

NEVILLE: Clayton, thank you very much. And moving over here to Melanie. If you stand up with me here, Melanie. Now, you heard Clayton say that it should be a special thing. The problem is, kids are talking about it as if it is not special; it is very casual. What are some of the things you hear?

MELANIE: There is just a lot of talk about at school. They talk like it is no big deal. So, we don't even think of the consequences of going out and doing it. They don't act like it is anything.

NEVILLE: And how do you feel about that?

MELANIE: I think it is wrong. You shouldn't -- there's values behind it. They don't -- they should think it through. They are not old enough to make any decisions on that.

NEVILLE: Thank you very much for talking to me.

And I am going to walk over here now, because we have got Dan in the audience, who is a middle school teacher.

That's correct? A substitute teacher. What age group are we talking about?

DAN: Well, 13, 14, down there.

And the girls, I walked in, and they're dressed so provocatively. And they talk about sex. And the boys look at them, the way they dress, the way they walk, the way they talk. And I was just a little bit surprised at how they are. And the girls have cut-out pictures like Lil' Kim and J.Lo, all provocative things hanging out. And they just talk about sex. And it is like, physically, they may be able to. They may be ready. But, emotionally, there is a lot of baggage that comes with having sex.

There is nothing wrong with having sex. It is, when are you ready to handle it or not? I just see that is where the difference is. And they see images that they are ready, but they can't handle it emotionally.

NEVILLE: Thank you very much for sharing your story here.

And over here is Rashon (ph).

Rashon, you are not a teenager anymore. You're just one year past that. But you do have some thoughts. And I was interested in hearing what you had to say.

RASHON: OK.

Well, back when I was in high school in the locker room, you hear conversations of guys about who had sex. And it caused pressure on the guys who hadn't have sex to have sex. And back when I was in the eight or ninth grade, you would hear stories of girls who would get pregnant and wouldn't even be in school anymore.

And I would also like to add that a 14- or 15-year-old boy can't really care for a girl that age. And so if he has the option between a girl who will have sex with him and a girl who won't have sex with him, he is going to pick the girl who will have sex. And that will cause the girl who will not have sex more pressure toward her to have sex also in order to keep the guy.

NEVILLE: Thank you for sharing your thoughts.

And right now, I want to introduce you to Judy Kuriansky. You might know her as Dr. Judy. She is a psychologist and host of the radio show for teens, "Love Phones." She is also the author of "Generation Sex." And Kate Kennedy is campus projects manager of the Independent Women's Forum and editor of the online campus magazine, SheThinks.org.

Dr. Judy, let's start with you. You talk to teens all the time.

DR. JUDY KURIANSKY, RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: Yes, I have.

And what is really unfortunate is that, in the so many years that I have been on the air hearing teenagers talk, things have not changed so much, in the sense that young girls are still having sex because they are afraid they are going to lose their boyfriend. And young boys are still having sex because, just as we heard from Clayton and from Rashon, they think all the other boys are doing it. And these are the myths that need to be changed.

Girls need to realize that, even if they lose that boyfriend, goodbye. Good riddance to bad rubbish that way.

NEVILLE: Absolutely. Absolutely.

Andrew, you heard what Dr. Judy said. What do you have to say about that? Is it a lot of peer pressure going on here?

ANDREW: In most cases, there is. But I try to stay away from stuff like that, but you can't really get away from it. I think there's a lot of peer pressure going on, especially in schools, about people doing stuff and having sex with their girlfriends or boyfriends. But I think that is wrong. I think you should wait. But that is just my opinion. Other people have their different opinions.

NEVILLE: Well, we appreciate your opinion, Andrew.

KURIANSKY: But what's important about...

(CROSSTALK)

NEVILLE: I've got to let Kate Kennedy get in, Dr. Judy. Excuse me.

Kate, how do we slow it down? It is moving too fast.

KATE KENNEDY, INDEPENDENT WOMEN'S FORUM: Indeed it truly is.

And I think the young people in your audience have offered such illuminating comments on the situation today. I think it is a matter of peer pressure that has gone over the top. It is almost upping the ante with peer pressure. No longer it is a simple case of, "Who has got the cool Nike sneakers?" It's, "Who is scoring on the weekend and who is not?"

And I think Dr. Judy brought up a fine point as well. I think, in our culture and society today, girls who wish to be modest or prudent or express some sort of prudence when it comes to the sexual activity, those types of virtues aren't honored anymore. And that's a shame. If they want to express some sort of modesty or prudence, they are looked upon as having some sort of hangup. And they have to worry at night, "Am I going to lose my boyfriend?"

And guys, on the other hand, are worried about being cool and being seen as cool. And while it might be seen as just talk right now, one wonders, you know, how much of this will come to fruition. It does only have to start out as talk.

NEVILLE: Well, Kate, you know what? You make some excellent points.

I have got to go to a break right now. I have got Melanie in the audience shaking her head with this. Bill is in California on the phone. I've got so much to talk about. We all have so much to talk about, so don't go anywhere. We will continue this in a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

NEVILLE: And welcome back.

We are talking about what "USA Today" called the sexual revolution in junior high school.

Bill, you're in California. You are on the line. And I would like to hear what you have to say.

CALLER: Television is the primary source of information in this nation. And it is controlled by the commercial interests, who have decided to sell their products. Sex sells. So they lace the commercials with innuendo and titillation. These kids see it from the time they are little kids. Their little Barbie dolls are made sexy. And you wonder why? You wonder why they are led into this behavior?

NEVILLE: I am standing here with a teenager.

Melanie, if you see someone scantily clad on television, or you see something sexy, some sexy images, does that make you want to dress like that or behave in such a way that would make you want to have sex?

MELANIE: Not necessarily. If I see something I like, I am going to go out and dress like it. But it is not like I am trying to be like that or trying to dress sexy or anything like that.

NEVILLE: And then earlier I think you were shaking your head about the whole peer pressure idea of, it is about being cool; it's not just about just wearing the latest pair of sneakers or the latest cool jeans. It's about having sex that makes you cool?

MELANIE: Right, it's not necessarily -- what I was shaking my head about is saying that guys don't value girls that have actual values and beliefs. It is not that they just like the girls that don't like that.

NEVILLE: So they do like good girls?

MELANIE: Yes, they do. And that lady was saying that they don't. And that is not how it is at all. That is just a small minority.

KURIANSKY: I think you have a group of very -- good for you, Melanie.

You have some very sophisticated young people in the audience here. And I think they reflect a larger group which is very positive, too.

When Bill was saying earlier that it is just blame of television, it is not just television. There's all kinds of input related to sexuality that we see all of the time. And the Internet is a big problem now, because kids can log on and see things. But if they build their self-esteem and if they ban together to talk with each other -- because kids learn the most about sex from their peers. That is what statistics show.

And, as a columnist for "Cosmo Girl," which covers teenagers from 12 years old to 17, and an average age of 15 to 16, they come to the magazine even with questions about sex. I am impressed, out of the hundreds of e-mails and questions that I get from my column in "Cosmo Girl," that girls are asking very responsible questions, too, about relationships, and about how they can resist having sex.

NEVILLE: And, Dr. Judy...

KURIANSKY: And I think we need to see that there are many more responsible teenagers.

NEVILLE: I would like to interject on that note, because Amber is here.

And Amber's idea, talking about the idea of relationships and responsibility, your thoughts are what, Amber?

AMBER: I think there is a lot of, I don't know, feeling that you have to do it. But I also think that people do -- parents don't understand that people do love people in high school. When you are 16 or 17, you do have a sense of loving somebody. It is not just to have sex just for the physical aspect.

And if you see the media, there is a lot of pressure, but not everybody gives into that. Also, people like an audience aren't going to admit that, yes, they are for sex. If they are seen on TV by somebody that they idolize or their parents are here or what not, they are not going to say, yes, "We are for sex" or whatever. They are going to say, "We are not for it."

NEVILLE: Kate, let me let you jump in here, because I have not heard from you in a while.

KENNEDY: Yes, I do think that what the caller said before and what Dr. Judy, we do have a lot of social factors at play here. Peer pressure is one of them, certainly. I happen to believe, in the organization I work for, the Independent Women's Forum, that to trace the roots of the problem that we have today, we need to look at the sexual revolution of the '60s and '70s.

And what type of ramifications are we seeing in today's youth because of that sexual revolution? The feminists of that era had some type of notion that men and women could be sexually the same, that what went on behind closed doors, women could be just like men. And what we've come to find out at the Independent Women's Forum is that, while women, regardless of their age, whether they're young or old, might want to act just like men, we don't necessarily react like men.

NEVILLE: Well, Kate, I've got to take a break, but when we come back, we can talk about that. Are there the double standards: good girls, bad boys? What is the deal with that?

We will talk about that when we come back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

NEVILLE: Welcome back.

We are talking about teen sex.

And, Dr. Judy, we are short on time, but I want to talk to you about the notion of bad boys. It is OK for the boy to be bad, but if the girl is bad, that is not good. What are you hearing on that?

KURIANSKY: Oh, well, we keep saying that word, "bad" and "good."

I would like to wipe that out entirely, because that is what diminishes young girls' self-esteem. And that is at the source of it. When I talk about sex and help girls in feeling better about resisting sex, they need to build their self-esteem. That is why I say forget about this word bad and good.

There are three R's that are important when you talk about kids and sex that I always lecture them about. One is: Respect yourself and other people. The second is: Be responsible about what are you doing with regard to all kinds of sexually-transmitted diseases.

NEVILLE: And No. 3 quickly.

KURIANSKY: And three is the right to say yes or no.

NEVILLE: OK, we are out of time.

Dr. Judy made some great points. Kate Kennedy, thank you as well for being here. That is all of the time we have for today. I would like to have you here in the audience, so give me a call for a free ticket. And be ready to talk.

Charles Barkley will be here in Atlanta manana ready to talk to you at 3:00 Eastern, noon Pacific. You never know what he is going to say. You don't know what I might say.

I'm Arthel Neville. And I'll see you then.

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