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CNN Live Today

Israeli Troops Surround Arafat Compound

Aired March 29, 2002 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
DARYN KAGAN, CNN ANCHOR: We begin this hour in the Middle East, where the leader of the Palestinian Authority is almost literally staring down an Israeli gun barrel. Israeli troops and tanks have taken up positions at Arafat's expansive Ramallah compound. The word, though, from Jerusalem and Washington is that no long-term occupation is planned, and Arafat is in no personal danger.

Palestinians are dubious about that, to say the least. For the latest, let's turn to our Christiane Amanpour in Jerusalem. Christiane, hello.

CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Daryn, as you say, Israeli tanks have smashed through the perimeter of Yasser Arafat's compound in Ramallah. There are tanks stationed within what used to be the walls of that perimeter. And indeed, we are being told by Palestinian sources that over the last several hours there has been what they called continuous gunfire from the machine guns on those tanks, that have been directed at the walls of that compound.

In addition, we are told by a Palestinian official, that the army bulldozers have moved in, in preparation to demolish what he said would be the buildings around the central building, where Yasser Arafat and a few aides are reportedly holed up there. We're also told by this official that one of the bedrooms and offices that used to be used by Yasser Arafat -- he's not there now -- had been directly fired at. And there where holes in the walls over there.

But they tell us that Yasser Arafat is safe, despite the fact that we've heard now from the U.S. Secretary of State Colin Powell, and indeed the Saudi Crown Prince Abdullah, that assurances have been given from the Israelis that Yasser Arafat will not personally be harmed or, as Powell said, killed.

Palestinian officials believe that he's a target. And indeed, Yasser Arafat himself, who spoke earlier to Al Jazeera television, he also believes that he is personally now a target.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

YASSER ARAFAT, PALESTINIAN CHAIRMAN (through translator): They either want to kill me or capture me or expel me. But I say no, I will be a martyr. I hope I'll be a martyr in the holy land. I have chosen this path. And if I fall, one day a Palestinian child will raise the Palestinian flag above our mosques and churches. (END VIDEO CLIP)

AMANPOUR: Now, this obviously comes against the backdrop of continued suicide bombings in Israel. After the one on the Passover eve in Netanya, the coastal resort, there was one in downtown Jerusalem today. A suicide bomber blew herself up and killed one other person in that supermarket, and about 20 other people were injured.

The Israeli government is saying that while it doesn't plan to reoccupy permanently parts of the West Bank, in particularly, Ramallah. They are saying that they are having to take this action because Yasser Arafat himself has not reigned in terrorism.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GIDEON MEIR, ISRAELI SPOKESMAN: We had no choice but to take this obligation upon ourselves. And what Israel is doing is actually exercising Israeli's security doctrine, which is self-defense. There is no intention to reoccupy the territories or to harm physically Yasser Arafat. But there will be no terrorist who will be immune from Israeli security forces.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

AMANPOUR: Now, Israel has declared war on the Palestinian Authority. Those were the clear words of the Israeli defense minister today and the prime minister. We're hearing from CNN sources inside Ramallah that the tanks are mostly positioned in and around Yasser Arafat's compound, but that they are also rolling around all parts of Ramallah at will.

We have also been told that we've seen -- CNN cameramen and producers there -- have seen Israeli soldiers start to go into houses and arrest people from those houses. The Israelis say they are trying to dismantle the terrorist infrastructure. Back to you, Daryn.

KAGAN: And, Christiane, another reason for the Palestinians to doubt the safety, the personal safety of Yasser Arafat, he has now officially been declared an enemy of Israel by that government.

AMANPOUR: Yes, he has. And we spoke to the senior Palestinian negotiator earlier today, who said that when the prime minister of a sovereign state, in this case, Israel, declares someone by name an enemy of that state, well, then, most people would consider that a license to kill.

In addition, they point out that the prime minister of Israel has twice said that he regretted not having killed or harmed Yasser Arafat when he had opportunities. Once 20 years ago in Beirut, and once in the last couple of weeks during the previous Israeli armed invasion of Ramallah. So they are quite concerned about that.

And of course, there's a debate going on. Some, obviously many people believe that Israel has the legitimate right to self-defense, to retaliate after its civilian have been killed. But others asking an equally legitimate question: will this kind of retaliation be effective?

We've seen that it has not been effective in the past, in the past year of Ariel Sharon's government. And particularly, the last similar large-scale invasion into the occupied territories has done nothing to stop the suicide bombing attacks. In fact, they have increased. So people questioning the kind of retaliation, while obviously admitting that any country would have the right to retaliate.

KAGAN: And in fact, we heard Secretary of State Colin Powell talk to that very point, saying that he respected Israel's right to defend itself, but called on Prime Minister Sharon to consider the consequences of his actions, of what Israel is doing in Ramallah today.

AMANPOUR: Yes, Daryn. And just interestingly enough, Shimon Peres, the Israeli foreign minister, told me last week that there simply cannot be any military solution to this conflict, because he says, the Palestinians don't have an army. And so this is not going to be resolved, he doesn't believe, by any kind of military action.

KAGAN: Christiane Amanpour, joining us live from Jerusalem. Christiane, thank you so much.

And now to talk more about the situation unfolding in the Middle East, in Washington, Edward Abington, who is an adviser to the Palestinian Authority.

Mr. Abington, thanks for joining us.

EDWARD ABINGTON, PALESTINIAN AUTH. ADVISER: Thank you.

KAGAN: Did you have a chance, perhaps, sir, to hear Secretary Powell's comments earlier today?

ABINGTON: Yes, I did. I heard the comments in their entirety.

KAGAN: And then I'm sure you heard very strong words for the Palestinians -- far harsher words for the Palestinians than he did have for the Israelis, in light of the actions of the last 24 hours.

ABINGTON: Well, I spoke to some senior Palestinians after Secretary Powell made his remarks. And I have to say, if I could characterize their response, they were infuriated by what the secretary said.

KAGAN: He -- as I said, he did have some very strong words. He said flat out, there was no question as to what is the problem in halting the peace process, and that is terror, raw terror. And pointing out the recent suicide attacks, and not pointing in that respect, to the actions that Israel has taken.

ABINGTON: Well, that was precisely what the Palestinian -- the Palestinian officials I spoke to said. They said that they put it all on the shoulder -- Powell put it all on the shoulders of the Palestinians. In essence, Arafat is holed up in his office, being shot at by Israeli troops. And they said Secretary Powell came out and said that Mr. Arafat has to do more to control terrorism.

KAGAN: Then the question becomes, sir, it kind of goes round and round, where Yasser Arafat tries to play it both ways, it seems. But he can't control what's happening, or he wants to be perceived as the leader of the Palestinian people. And I think it's hard, especially for people in the West, to try to figure out which one it is.

ABINGTON: Well, if you look at what's happened over the last 18 months, I think his authority has been eroded tremendously by the Israeli military actions against the very instruments that are supposed to control terrorism. I think there's no doubt that Arafat can do more, should have done more. But to put all on his shoulders and to ignore Israeli actions, which fuel this cycle and keep it going, I think the analysis is flawed.

KAGAN: So disappointing that it would happen on a day like today, today's violence, when you look at both sides. Given that a day like yesterday, with the Saudi peace proposal, greeted with so much approval from the Arab world. Yesterday a day of hope. Today a day of disappointment.

ABINGTON: Well, I think that's right. I think the Saudi peace initiative is significant. I don't think it should be dismissed by Israelis. It talks about peace between Israel and the Arab countries. I've worked on this part of the world for over 30 years. I think that it is an extremely important initiative by the Arab League. I hope that at some point, when this bloodshed is stopped, that the Saudi initiative can provide the basis for serious negotiations between Israel and the Palestinians and Israel and the Syrians.

KAGAN: Let me call on your experience, sir, of the 30-years in that region. Kind of a big picture/small picture type of situation. Big picture, the significance of the Arab world even recognizing Israel yesterday, as it addressed that country and as it put forward and approved that peace proposal. That would be big picture.

Small picture, it looks like we have a personal grudge match here between Ariel Sharon and Yasser Arafat. And that might be getting in the way of significant peace.

ABINGTON: I would agree with that. I think that both leaders bear a tremendous amount of personal animosity towards each other. I think that Prime Minister Sharon, historically, has relied on military means to deal with Palestinians, and is continuing it today. I think that President Arafat has made some serious mistakes over the past decade, in terms of dealing with Israelis and not being able to communicate to them a vision of peace.

But you know, here we are, deadlocked into this terrible situation in which people on both sides are suffering tremendously. Israelis -- you know, I saw bus bombings when I was a consul general in Jerusalem. They happened 200 yards from my house. I know the anguish that this has caused. But I've seen the same anguish on the part of Palestinians.

KAGAN: So where can it go from here, so that yesterday's progress and hope doesn't get tripped up by today's violence?

ABINGTON: Well, you know, 30 years and I would have to say that what has always been key is an effective American role. What I'm afraid we are seeing today is an ineffective American role, one that certainly gives the appearance to the Palestinians that the United States has sided almost entirely with the Israelis. And until the U.S. can exercise effective leadership in this area, I don't see the bloodshed stopping.

KAGAN: Wish we could end on more hopeful words than that, but I still want to thank you for your insight and your words. Edward Abington, thank you for joining us.

ABINGTON: Thank you very much.

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