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American Morning

Sound Off: Interview with Cliff May, Bob Beckel

Aired March 29, 2002 - 08:39   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: Today's "Sound Off," the war on terrorism and the government's decision to seek the death penalty for Zacarias Moussaoui, the only person charged so far in connection with the terrorist attacks of September 11. Yesterday, Attorney General John Ashcroft explained why they are seeking the ultimate punishment.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOHN ASHCROFT, ATTORNEY GENERAL: Following my instructions, the United States attorneys have filed a notice of intent to seek a sentence of death. In the notice, we have alleged numerous reasons, called aggravating factors, which we believe indicate why the death penalty is appropriate. Among these reasons is the impact of the crime on thousands of victims.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ZAHN: But what, exactly, is the government's case against the French citizen, and does it warrant the death penalty? His defense attorneys and French authorities who quickly criticized the decision, all say no.

Joining us now with their own opinions, and they're evenly divided, as usual, Cliff May, former communications director for the RNC and Bob Beckel, Democratic strategist. Welcome back. I haven't seen the two of you guys together in a long time.

BOB BECKEL, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: I know. It's been a long time.

CLIFF MAY, FORMER COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR, REPUBLICAN NATIONAL COMMITTEE: We've missed you.

BECKEL: I missed you, Paula.

MAY: I missed Bob, too.

BECKEL: Thanks.

ZAHN: Well, I missed all three of you. It's a mutual love-fest this morning.

All right. Let's break up all this goodness here, and Bob, you tell me why John Ashcroft is wrong. Is the death penalty obtainable here?

BECKEL: Well, that's the big question, is it obtainable. Look, from my standpoint, I don't believe in the death penalty. So, we'll leave that aside. I think what Ashcroft is doing...

ZAHN: Don't let that color anything you are going to say here this morning, Bob. Just throw out your own biases...

BECKEL: No, certainly it wouldn't, because you know me, I'm an unbiased, fair analyst and I think Ashcroft is one of the worst attorney generals in the history of this country who could (UNINTELLIGIBLE). The fact of the matter is...

ZAHN: Oh, come on, come on, come on. Back to the issue of the attainability of the death penalty.

BECKEL: I'm getting back to the -- wait a minute, wait a second. I am getting back to the issue. The issue is they've rushed this indictment and this death penalty case to the point where I don't think -- a lot of people believe they don't have a strong enough case. And what if this guy were to get off, number one.

But number two, it's a little strange to me that they rush this case forward. Why? Because bin Laden has not been found, Omar has not been found. A number of the other people responsible for the planning and execution of the horrors of 9/11 have not been found, so they've got one person. They bring him forward to sort of satiate the public, and I tell you, the other thing they are about to do here is make this guy into a martyr. The last thing we need is another Mideast martyr.

ZAHN: All right. Well Cliff, Bob has given you a lot of fodder here this morning. Start off with the martyrdom.

MAY: Start off with the martyrdom? Sure. Look, there are plenty of martyrs out there that we -- there are plenty of people that we have managed to kill in Afghanistan. Yasser Arafat, he directs the al Aqsa Martyrs Brigade, martyrs are dying every day. The 19 hijacker who did succeed on September 11. They are all martyrs. Who cares if he becomes another martyr because he is killed? Let them put his picture up next to Osama bin Laden's in the headquarters of Islamic militant operations in the West Bank and Iraq and Iran. I don't think that matters.

Here's what matters -- 3,000 people were killed, incinerated, buried alive on September 11. This man was part of the conspiracy to do that. It is both appropriate and justifiable that he be executed for that crime, and there is plenty of precedent. You know, in World War II, there were German saboteurs who came to the United States who were caught and executed. Some of them never managed to carry out the acts of sabotage that they intended, but they were part of that conspiracy, and so they were executed. It is the same thing.

And these people are very much like the Nazis. They want to wipe out Western civilization, wipe out democracies. They are anti- semitic, they are anti-Christian. Same exact thing. One more thing. In 1987, the U.S. Supreme Court said that reckless disregard for human life as part of a conspiracy like this merits the death penalty, even if you didn't actually pull the trigger. He didn't pull the trigger only because we were able to stop this one of the 20 hijackers.

ZAHN: Well, let's talk with both of you now about what we exactly know about Zacarias Moussaoui. We are going to put a picture of him up to remind people of what this guy looked like. He was in jail on September 11, having been detained on an immigration violation since August 2000 when a Minnesota flight school reported its suspicions to authorities. Other than that, Cliff May, is there anything directly linking him to 9/11?

MAY: We don't have all the information that is going to be presented before the jury. There is a heavy burden that is going to be on the prosecution to prove this. I don't think anybody thinks he was here really because he wanted to learn to be a flight instructor in Teaneck, New Jersey. He was the guy who wanted to know how to take off, but didn't really care how to land. He wanted to know how to steer so he could steer into a building -- look, there's nothing -- I don't think there is anybody suggesting he was here for any other reason but to kill thousands of Americans, but the prosecution has to prove it.

ZAHN: Bob, you buy into that?

MAY: You know he was guilty, right?

BECKEL: Well, I... First of all -- first of all, Cliff, I enjoyed your history lesson about the Germans, but let me make a point. The Nuremberg trials were also going on, where the entire structure of the German high command who sent those saboteurs were tried, and in some cases convicted -- in all cases convicted, and put to death.

So, now we've got one person. Now -- do they have a strong enough case? Let me can ask you this. You're trying to put a death penalty case together here, and the person that you've got on trial the day of this heinous crime was in jail. And he went to a flight school. And I am sure they have got more than that, but the issue to me is, I don't want this guy put on trial, rushed into trial, which is what I think is happening here, so that you can satiate the American public because we haven't gotten bin Laden, and then this guy gets off. If that were to happen, what does that say about where we go from here?

MAY: Bob, I think -- first of all, I think it's wrong of you to put everything in partisan terms.

BECKEL: What's partisan? Wait...

MAY: This is not a matter of symbolism. This is a matter of bringing this guy to justice. Keep in mind, we had the Oklahoma City bombing. Terry Nichols and Tim McVeigh actually initiated the bombing, Terry Nichols was part of the conspiracy. He was charged and they tried to get him -- as a capital crime as well. In the end, he got life imprisonment instead, but I think the idea of saying somebody responsible for these heinous crimes deserves capital punishment is right, and the prosecution should try to do it. Now the other question is, and maybe you will agree with me...

ZAHN: Don't have time for another question. Bob Beckel, give me a five-second closing thought being the radio guy that you are.

BECKEL: Terry Nichols was caught at his farm with explosives. That is a little different than a guy sitting in jail. And Cliff, a rush to judgment can be a rush to an ending that we will all regret.

ZAHN: All right. Nine seconds, Bob. You owe Cliff four the next time he comes on. Bob Beckel, Cliff...

MAY: He owes me a lot more than that, I'll tell you.

BECKEL: Get out of here.

ZAHN: Good to have the two of you back together again.

BECKEL: Peace. Good to see you, Paula.

MAY: OK.

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