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CNN Sunday Morning

What Are The Hazards Of Waging War?

Aired March 31, 2002 - 10:41   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
MILES O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Let's turn it back to General Grange, and let's pick right up on that point.

We talk about casualties of war. We focus on the hazards that troops face on the front lines.

But there are hazards all around you when you're involved in this very, hazardous business of waging war.

BRIG. GEN. DAVID GRANGE U.S. ARMY (RET.): Right. And, you know, this -- you do training in all combat operations. Training never ceases. Good units train continuously.

If you have other indigenous forces, in this case, Afghanistan soldiers working with you, they must be trained in certain techniques and procedures that you use.

And they may have been training together to clear bunkers, to clear trench lines, that there was in grenades. That was the subject of the injury.

And so, you continue to do that all the time for readiness.

O'BRIEN: All right, General Grange, let's get back to Israel and the Middle East, and some e-mails that we've been getting, which I think might be interesting for you to field.

This one comes from Gale Barnes (ph) in Drake's Branch, Virginia.

"It's not time for the world to begin -- is it not the time for the world to begin labeling these suicide bombers and their masters, for the psychotics that they are."

"No political cause, real or imagined, can explain the acts they perform. They are mentally ill and should be rounded up and tranquilized."

I'm curious if you agree with that premise, that they are mentally ill.

Is that what this is all about?

GRANGE: I don't think it would be appropriate to label them as mentally ill. They -- are they extremist? Are they extraordinary in their tactics? Absolutely.

And they have been brainwashed -- if you want to use that term -- extensively for a cause. They have been convinced of martyrdom after they have committed the act.

The problem with this type of, this technique of terrorism, which is very effective, because it cannot be deterred -- very hard to deter unless the situation is not ripe for the attack. But they are committed to doing the act.

So you must do acts, you must counter it with some type of preventive measure. And it's very difficult to stop these kind of people.

So they've been trained extensively overseas. They're tied not only to the Hamas and the Islamic Jihad, but that's also tied to the Hezbollah. It's tied to the al Qaeda.

And it's a network of hundreds and hundreds that have been training over the last several years for this particular act of terrorism.

O'BRIEN: It's interesting you made the link to al Qaeda, because that feeds perfectly into our next e-mail.

Susan in Pennsylvania has this for you, General.

"I think we need to take the moral authority, as we have in Afghanistan, and make it clear to the Palestinians that they are becoming just like the Taliban and al Qaeda. And I think we should treat them accordingly."

Would you make a link, at least a parallel between Palestinians and al Qaeda?

GRANGE: What I would -- how I would do that is this.

Not the Palestinians. I think the Palestinians, their peaceful cause of having a state of their own is justified -- and I personally support that -- but through a process, a political process to come to those means.

But what you have is a hard-core element of the Palestinians, which in this case is a military arm of the Hamas, which they could care less about any kind of political, peaceful resolution of the State of the Israel and the Palestinians.

They want to either drive out or exterminate whatever those type of goals, the Israelis from this part of the Middle East.

And so, they're not going to be deterred. There's going to be a hard-core segment there that's there all the time, just like the al Qaeda Taliban in Afghanistan.

So it's a part of the Palestinian issue, not all of it.

O'BRIEN: All right. So a subset. Important to remember that, I think, as we discuss this one.

Here's another good one for you.

"No matter how much force Israel uses, they will not defeat the Palestinians, because of the occupation of their land and the brutal force Israel has been using. When you have nothing, you have nothing to lose.

Look at England. They've tried to defeat Ireland for 800 years, and never really defeated them. And at one time, they were the major power in the world."

That from Jim Boyle (ph). Jim obviously reads his history books. Good question, Jim.

Go ahead, General.

GRANGE: Yeah, that's a great point. Because, unless the people are convinced to go ahead and agree upon a solution, on the way they are governed, ruled, the way they act within a community, you're right.

You can't force people's will. Will is something that can never be defeated.

But, if you look at how Palestinians are treated, they're treated better in Israel than in many places in the world.

Having been to refugee camps and also work areas where Palestinians are located, in Tunisia and former Beirut before they were forced out of there -- and by the way, the Israelis gave them safe passage out of Beirut -- and Jordan, they're treated terribly.

They're treated worse than they are, actually in Israel, except for the current fight that's going on.

O'BRIEN: That's a (INAUDIBLE) ...

GRANGE: But their standard of living is terrible and nothing's done about that, actually, which is really sad.

O'BRIEN: That's a very interesting point.

Let's get one more in before we've got to let you go.

This is from Jack in South Carolina.

"A military solution might not be a permanent solution, but it is the only way the Palestinians will understand that terror will not bring them concessions from Israel.

Israel feels that a military response must be used, because there is no one to negotiate with, and negotiations have not produced a reduction in terror."

Now, it reminds me, although this isn't a great analogy for this one, but that saying that, you know, war is when diplomacy fails, essentially.

I don't think diplomacy is necessarily the right word to use in this situation. But nevertheless, is Israel's military stance appropriate from a military person's state of mind?

GRANGE: Yeah, these -- all of these have been great questions. And this one, let me give you three real quick points.

One is that you have to fight against the terrorist aspects of this from the inside out. They're in built-up areas and urban terrain mixed with many people. It's hard to tell who the enemy is and who is not.

Very difficult. You have to fight it from the inside out. You have to take military action because nothing else -- who do negotiate with?

Arafat is basically ineffective. And where he can do a little influence, he won't even do that.

So who do negotiate with to try to solve this by other means? It's almost impossible.

And so what you have to do now is take some kind of preventive action to prevent at least some future attacks.

O'BRIEN: David Grange, retired Brigadier General, U.S. Army, we appreciate you being with us as always, and stay close to the camera, there. We may need you a little later in the day as events progress there.

We're going to take a break. We'll be back with more of our continuing coverage of the crisis in the Middle East in just a moment.

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