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CNN LIVE TODAY
Israeli Forces Pound Palestinian Security Headquarters
Aired April 2, 2002 - 11:01 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
LEON HARRIS, CNN ANCHOR: Israeli forces pound the Palestinian security headquarters. This while Prime Minister Ariel Sharon proposes a one-way ticket out of town for Yasser Arafat.
We begin our coverage this hour of the crisis of the Middle East with CNN's Bill Hemmer, who checks in now, live from Jerusalem.
Hello, Bill.
BILL HEMMER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Leon, hello. Good evening.
Again, as you were mentioning, that escalation does continue, and for our viewers important to give a few signposts right now, because the situation in Ramallah can be confusing. Suffice to say two flashpoints in that West Bank town. One is the headquarters of what remains of it of anyway, of Yasser Arafat. Again, that continues now day, five for Arafat, holed up inside. The other one is the security compound sitting on top of a hill.
CNN's Michael Holmes was there it about two hours ago. It was our understanding for the past 16 hours or so, about 400 Palestinians were inside, Israeli troops on the outside. And the Israelis saying that about 50 suspected terrorists were hiding out, taking refuge there. They wanted to arrest and apprehend them. But just in the past three hours or so, our crew in Ramallah indicates that that situation is over, and the people the Israelis wanted in fact had left days ago. That's their story from inside the compound. Many injured from inside there.
And again, more deaths today in Ramallah. Three people shot, including a woman, 56 years of age, on her way home, we are told from the hospital. So in two days of clashes in Ramallah, 28 dead on the Palestinian side.
Now in Bethlehem, we're still trying to sort out some facts on the ground essentially in that town about six miles from our location right here. We have been told that a Roman Catholic priest had been killed. But now we're hearing from the Israeli side that indeed that man is still alive, but the point in all of this right now that the military clashes do continue in Bethlehem, Ramallah and a handful of other towns throughout the West Bank.
Now as for Yasser Arafat, Ariel Sharon has made an offer publicly, given three conditions to Yasser Arafat, to allow him out of the compound. He says he can leave with no one else and only one-way ticket out of the area, out of the entire region, in fact.
Well, that's been talked about throughout the Middle East. The Palestinians have dismissed that out of hand. They say that's an absolute nonstarter and they will have none of it; Yasser Arafat is staying where he is. Shimon Peres, though, the foreign minister, indicated to us here live on CNN earlier today that if the Palestinians truly want to end that standoff in Ramallah, they will also end the violence as well.
Here's Shimon Peres:.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SHIMON PERES, ISRAELI FOREIGN MINISTER: In Israel, people don't understand what the Palestinians are after or at. If they want to have a Palestinian state, it was offered to them. If they want to have independence, it was offered to them. If they want to have their land, it was offered to them. If they want to have a position in Jerusalem, it was offered to them.
Why killing?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HEMMER: Shimon Peres earlier today, and the Palestinian have reacted again strongly to words like that, and others. They say at this point, they're being backed into a corner.
Saeb Erakat, chief Palestinian negotiator now.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SAEB ERAKAT, CHIEF PALESTINIAN NEGOTIATOR: We are angry, because out there, Sharon is destroying our communication center, our command, our security quarters. Surrounding the security personnel we -- I don't know if we have enough authority anymore. And then at this circumstances of Sharon saying we are irrelevant, making sure we are irrelevant, in terms of destroying every ability we have, and then we have someone come and say, oh, Palestinians must do more, Palestinians must do this. OK, I want to do more, give me a chance to do more. This is why we want to see Tenet work plan implemented and all our obligations are specified there.
But to come, as I said, tie my hands, tie my legs, blindfold me, and throw my to the sea, and then stand and say, oh, they're not swimming, they're not good partners or drowning no good for me. That's what Sharon is doing.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HEMMER: Saeb Erakat with Christiane Amanpour earlier today in the West Bank down of Jericho.
Now the bottom line in all of this, Leon, is where does it go from here, and how do you find some sort of cease-fire? On the Israeli position, it appears that military operation is rolling down a hill right now, and there is no stopping it.
We've been told over the past couple of days, that this is an operation that may take two weeks, possibly longer, and in terms of a cease-fire, frankly, Leon, there is very little talk about that today.
And by the way, Leon, it is raining. The weather is quite bad today throughout the region. This time yesterday, we had sporadic incidents, firing up all across the West Bank. We're not hearing the same amount as yesterday. It's quite possible the weather put lid on, it some way anyway. As we sit here tonight, we don't anticipate it ending anytime soon -- Leon.
HARRIS: Let me ask you something else, Bill, about this timeframe issue. You said this could go on for a matter weeks. I saw a quote from Shimon Peres, I believe it was, this morning, who was saying, I think it could be matter of three to four weeks. However, there haven't been any other voices from the government or from any official angles there at all saying anything about timeframe.
How is that read there?
HEMMER: Yes, here's how it's being read, to be quite frank with you. Israeli sources tell us that this operation is to uproot again, as we mentioned throughout the week, the terrorists infrastructure they say is operating throughout the west bank. They say if the plan is carried out to its fullest, they might be able to hit 80 percent of that. Again, that's an optimistic viewpoint from the Israeli perspective.
But it is an open question, Leon, to be quite frank with you, as to how effective this operation will be in the end, because it's a very difficult thing, to stop suicide bombings, and we have seen six of those over the past six days' time, and appears that any military operation will be somewhat ineffective against that.
Now having said that, the Israeli think they can and inflict damage on that terrorist side that operates in the West Bank. But how effective, again, is a wide-open question. The reason why they mention two weeks or 2-4 weeks essentially, based on military plan on the table right now. That's what they think their time frame is at this point -- Leon.
HARRIS: OK, we will see how it all unfolds. Thank you very much, Bill. Bill Hemmer, reporting live from Jerusalem.
Let's move closer now to this operation Bill is reporting on.
Israel says that the Palestinian militants were the target of the attack today on the Palestinian security headquarters in Ramallah.
CNN's Michael Holmes managed to get inside the compound. He is live right now, and we can actually see him.
Michael, we are glad to see you, because your died last time we spoke last hour. We were just hoping that that didn't mean anything negative there. Good to see you.
MICHAEL HOLMES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good to see you, too, Leon.
Yes, that just meant a dead cell phone battery, fortunately. Yes, an extraordinary scene there. Last night, we listened to incredible sounds of armament being put into this compound. Now let's establish what it is. It's called the "preventative security headquarters." It is the home of the Palestinian security apparatus. It's a significant facility in terms of the Palestinian Authority. It's about -- probably about two miles from Yasser Arafat's own compound. We had tank shells going in, heavy machine gunfire. And as dawn broke, I watched as helicopter gunships came in and fired rockets as well. Now we were out filming at a couple of different places and then tried to get to compound, not really expecting to be able to.
We were turned away a couple of times when we tried to get through. And we went another route and eventually found ourselves literally at the compound gates. We went in and they were Israeli armored vehicles there and a tank, and nobody stopped us filming, and so we went inside and walked around what is a devastated security compound -- Leon.
Every building in that place, and there's about four of them, has been severely damaged, every window knocked out -- bullet holes, tank shell holes in the wall, also saw the damage done by helicopter rockets, and there was a scene of devastation, rubble on the ground, burned cars, crashed cars. It was certainly a ferocious assault.
There were, according to Palestinian sources, some 300, 350 people inside there listening to all of this, experiencing all of this. What we're told happened today was -- this morning, was an American-brokered agreement to allow those inside to come out. They did, and were taken to Israeli settlement, including the wounded, and yet to get a formal casualty count at the moment.
Sorry about the noises. We have a tank rumbling by behind us. We have yet to get a full casualty count. But all of the people, including the wounded, are at this Israeli settlement where they are being processed, interviewed, and Israel saying, of course, that they believe inside that security headquarters, there were dozens, perhaps of wanted terrorist. That compound houses the offices of Jabil Rajud (ph), the head of preventative security. His office building, a four- story affair, was burned out on the top two floors, severely damaged on the bottom two. It also houses prison where Palestinian prisoners are kept, those arrested by Palestinian authorities.
Leon, also this afternoon there has been a lifting of the curfew that has kept Palestinian indoors, a temporary lifting that lasted for 2 1/2 hours. People came out on the streets, initially gingerly. Several ask if it true, is the curfew listed? We went to stores and able to stock up on desperately needed items. People were telling us, they had no milk for their children, no water. The water has been cut off in many parts of Ramallah, as has the electricity in some areas as well. They were able to go out and do some shopping, and the people we spoke to very grateful to be able to do so. The one exception was a curfew not lifted around Yasser Arafat's compound, the Palestinian Authority headquarters. It was kept in place there, although we're told by Israeli sources that foodstuffs and some essentials were delivered to Palestinian people in what Israel calls a humanitarian operation. There are certainly some very relieved people.
One other thing happened today, Leon, caught us all by surprise. We saw from this position here. Four U.N. SUVs clearly mark United Nations vehicles and a truck drive past. We quickly got into armored car and followed, and they went to the Ramallah hospital, where they said that they had to liaison with Israeli authorities in order to get permission to drop off some desperately needed medical supplies to the hospital, blood and the like. And while we were there, too, a doctor took into the hospital mortuary, and it was quite a site. There are perhaps 30 bodies in mortuary that should be holding maybe 20, and a hastily dug grave was dug outside when the curfew temporarily lifted, and some of the bodies were buried literally under a parked car -- Leon.
HARRIS: Fascinating.
Michael, that is an absolute wealth of reporting information. Let me ask you one question about this siege and the security compound there, and we heard the Israelis say that they thought some 400 people in there at some point, as you say.
What there ever any evidence that there were 400 people inside and people were engaged in any sort of terrorist activity, or anything of the sort?
HOLMES: Very difficult to know. I think the figure of 400 or so is probably accurate, because both sides gave similar figures. So there was 350-400 people in there last night during this ferocious barrage. We understand that there are some underground areas there, and perhaps that's where they're sheltered, because judging by the damage done to this compound, we would have expected regarding a large number of casualty. We don't know that there is a large number. One figure we heard perhaps was 30, which would indicate that these people took shelter somewhere reasonably safe.
As for who was in there, you're right, Israel says there were dozen of wanted terrorists, perhaps those who had planned suicide bombings and the like. The Palestinian argument is that there is a prison there, and that these people were prisoners. Many of them had been arrested by Palestinian security forces in response to requests by Israel, and they had arrested them, and they were in custody. There was obviously a dispute over who should be holding them, however -- Leon.
HARRIS: Michael Holmes, thank you very much. Fascinating reporting, with that soundtrack behind you of the tanks and the helicopters, it really underscores the danger of that situation there.
Real quickly, if you could tell us, Michael, do you know what those tanks that we heard moments ago behind you, what they were doing, where they were heading?
HOLMES: You know, Leon, it just becomes part of the white noise of Ramallah really, tanks and APCs rumbling by. They have a couple of regular routes. One of them just happens to be right behind us. You just missed the whole bout of gunshots in the background. The APCs are driving round at the moment, firing into the air to just let people know if they didn't know already that the curfew is over, and to go home -- Leon.
HARRIS: Good deal. Michael Holmes, you be safe and check back with us later on to make sure you're doing okay.
Michael Holmes reporting live from Ramallah.
I want to make a note real quick there, I like to see Michael in that bulletproof vest. Don't know if you saw that report this morning. It was a reporter for another network that was shot while she was on the roof there doing her report. So Michael putting himself in dangerous situation.
DARYN KAGAN, CNN ANCHOR: Stay safe, all the reporter wearing those bulletproof vests with press, like don't shoot me.
HARRIS: Exactly.
KAGAN: The Bush administration says that Yasser Arafat will still be regarded as the leader of the Palestinians, regardless of whether he's in Ramallah or in exile. And the White House appears to be softening its hardline stance against Arafat. And more on that now from our CNN White House correspondent Major Garrett -- Major.
MAJOR GARRETT, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Daryn.
If I could appropriate a phrase that Michael Holmes just used "white noise." There are some critic from the Bush administration who say that's exactly what characterizes the rather muddled message from this White House in the last few days about the ongoing events in the Middle East. It's very difficult to detect direct information from the Bush administration, direct signals to the Israeli government.
For example, on all the military activities happening in Ramallah and other parts of occupied territories, today Ari Fleischer said only that it does not appear to be an open-ended -- of an open-ended duration, all the IDF activities in the occupied territories.
Secretary of State Powell said today as long as Israel keeps a path to peace open, the United States would be generally supportive of what Israel is doing on the ground. Ari Fleischer was asked, has anything the administration seen so far suggest that it is closing any pathway to peace? No, said Ari Fleischer. Generally, the administration trying to discourage open-ended military operation by the IFF forces in the occupied territory, but no direct signals as when or how to end them.
As for Yasser Arafat, on Saturday, the president was very, very specific about Yasser Arafat and the Palestinian Authority and those within the Palestinian movement being responsibility for derailing cease-fire talks by the suicide bombing, against Israeli civilians and yet yesterday much more nuance appraisal of Yasser Arafat's role, calling the central figure. A pathway to peace and they -- that the suicide bombing undermined his authority, and what this all reflects is sort of a push me, pull you within the administration itself.
On the one hand, you have some more hawkish members of the administration, led by Condoleezza Rice, the national security adviser, Donald Rumsfeld, the defense secretary, not in opposition, but sort of speaking in different language than Secretary of State Colin Powell and colleagues at the state department. The central question: how reliable is Yasser Arafat? Vice President Cheney and Condoleezza Rice suspicious of ability to create a final deal. Secretary of State Powell and colleagues at the State Department believe there is no credible alternative for Yasser Arafat. You see the tension within the White House as it tries to provide a nuanced assessment of what's going on on the ground.
As to the central question today, whether or not the United States in any way would support Israel's call to exile, Yasser Arafat, the word from the administration is absolutely not.
Secretary of State Powell articulated that part of the message earlier today on CNN.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
COLIN POWELL, SECY. OF STATE: Chairman Arafat is head of the Palestinian Authority, and he is recognized whether you approve of it or not as the leader of Palestinian people, and he will be the leader of the Palestinian people whether he is sitting in Ramallah, or whether he is sitting in some exile location elsewhere, in the Middle East or somewhere in Europe, he will still have that role. So it seems to me let's deal with him where he is, and let's continue to apply pressure to him and other leaders of the Palestinian people to get into the Tenet work plan.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GARRETT: The Tenet work plan, of course, is the plan to obtain the cease-fire, but Secretary of State Powell said there will be no really substantive talks on that until the Israeli military incursions end, no sign as to when that will happen -- Daryn.
KAGAN: Garrett, I want to -- sorry, Major.
GARRETT: Yes, Kagan.
KAGAN: Hey, you, Major, Major Garrett.
I want to get a question about the alleged Al Qaeda leader that supposedly now is in custody, what's the White House saying about that?
GARRETT: Strike "alleged." The White House confirmed today that Abu Zubaydah has been captured by Pakistani intelligence police forces. He's a central figure, part of the inner circle of Al Qaeda. His arrest, the White House says, a serious blow to Al Qaeda's ability to reconstitute and reorganize itself. The quote from Ari Fleischer here at the White House today, "Al Qaeda has many tentacles. One of them has just been cut off."
Daryn.
KAGAN: Mr. Major Garrett, at the White House. Major, thank you so much.
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