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CNN Talkback Live

Is There End in Sight for Crisis in Middle East?; Is Obesity a Disease?; Are Americans More Rude Than Ever Before?

Aired April 03, 2002 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ARTHEL NEVILLE, HOST: Hello, everybody, and welcome to TALKBACK LIVE. I'm Arthel Neville.

It's an ominous image: Israeli tanks sit outside the Church of the Nativity in Bethlehem's Manger Square, Hezbollah forces are firing missiles along Israel's border with Lebanon, and Egypt today announced it is suspending all contact with Israel, but will maintain diplomatic ties. We're joined in Jerusalem by CNN chief international correspondent, Christiane Amanpour.

Christiane, what does this move by Egypt mean, and what is Israel's reaction to it?

Christiane? I'd like to know what does this latest move by Egypt mean and what is the Israeli reaction to it?

OK, we are going to move on now. Christiane was not there, but we -- we are going to bring in our guests in right now to discuss this as well. I would like to introduce now Abdel Bari Atwan and Hillel Fradkin to discuss this topic as well. Dr. Hillel Fradkin is the president of the Ethics and Public Policy Center, and Mr. Bari Atwan has this -- can you guys hear me, first of all?

HILLEL FRADKIN, ETHICS & PUBLIC POLICY CENTER: Yes, I can.

NEVILLE: Great. Thank you for being here, and welcome to both of you.

Mr. Bari Atwan, I'd like to start with you, has this Israeli offensive hit a nerve in the Arab world?

ABDEL BARI ATWAN, AL-QUDS: You know, from the Palestinian side, not the Israeli.

NEVILLE: It does not matter. Would you like to answer, what do you think? I would still like to know your opinion.

ATWAN: Yes, you know, I would love to.

NEVILLE: OK. Let's start with you, Dr. Fradkin, has this Israeli offensive, in your opinion, hit a nerve in the Arab world?

FRADKIN: Well, clearly it has hit a nerve. Clearly we are reaching a kind of crisis point or a really decisive moment. The question really is, what will be the reaction at that critical moment.

NEVILLE: Mr. Bari Atwan, what are your thoughts on this situation, the Israeli offensive?

ATWAN: Well, I believe this situation is, you know, this is the worst atrocities which took place. People are really killed, innocent people terrorized. Palestinians celebrated Easter under the tanks and missiles and bloodshed. Palestinian people could not bury their dead, they had to bury them in a mass grave, and they are out of hospitals. Ambulances are not allowed to reach those injured.

And now there is incursion in Nablus, and before it was in Jenin. There is no water, no electricity, no medical supplies, no food. People are really, really in a very, very miserable situation. And people are asking why the international community is letting us down.

The Nativity Church, which is, you know, the Catholic church and the most prominent one, you know, the birthplace of Jesus Christ is now besieged, and the Israeli bombardment, so this is -- priests are prevented from entering Bethlehem. This is a situation -- and it seems Mr. Sharon is getting away with these atrocities and nobody is stopping him. He is terrorizing three million people, and, you know, and Arafat is cornered in a room in a half of his office, and no medical, no electricity, no water, no telephone lines.

What kind of justice is this, you know? Is this Israeli justice, is this, you know, the Jewish morality, which we appreciate highly? So I don't know what he is going to achieve. You know, the whole Middle East is boiling now, the moderate Arab regime is under fire, the demonstrations, hundreds of thousands of people demonstrated against the United States and Israel.

NEVILLE: Sir, what I would like to do at this moment, if you will, I'd like to go ahead and bring Christiane Amanpour back into this conversation.

And Christiane, I would like to know about Egypt's latest moves and Israelis' reactions to that?

CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, even as this Israeli military offensive is picking up speed, entering now the West Bank town of Nablus, the Egyptians, as you mentioned, have cut some government-to-government contacts with Israel. You know, Egypt and Jordan are the only two Arab nations that have relations with Israel, and Egypt, at the beginning of the intifada, withdrew its ambassador.

Nonetheless, there were government-to-government contact. So this has changed today. They do say diplomatic channels will remain open, there are slight nuances to exactly what effect it means that they cut government-to-government contacts, but that's what the situation is. And Israel, of course, has said it regrets it, and it would hope that in a time of tension such as this, government contacts would be bolstered rather than diminished.

NEVILLE: Tell us about the documents the Israelis found. AMANPOUR: Well, they are saying that when they went into Yasser Arafat's compound in Ramallah in the early days of this offensive, which began last Friday, they found boxes of documents. They brought them out. The Israelis invited and telephoned foreign correspondents to come down to a special presentation at the headquarters, where they put on a screen these documents they say they have taken from the compound.

Now, the particular one that they showed today was titled in English, saying "the Al Aqsa Martyrs troops," and the Israelis say that in Arabic it was a letter to Israel's -- sorry, to the Palestinian procurement and finance minister, asking for something like 20,000 shekels, the Israeli currency, in order to do things like print posters, do all sorts of payments, but most especially, according to this document, to have the kind of money they needed to make bombs.

Now, the Palestinians have cast aspersions on this, saying that they believe the document was a forgery. Israel says this is the first hard evidence it's got that the Palestinian Authority is directly linked with these groups, which have committed suicide bombings.

NEVILLE: What is the latest on the Bethlehem standoff?

AMANPOUR: Well, it is still a standoff, and most particularly around the Church of the Nativity, the birthplace of Jesus in Christian and Catholic tradition. There, over the last 24 hours at least, there has been anywhere up to 150 gunmen and others holed up inside that church looking for sanctuary, in the meantime surrounded by Israeli tanks, armored troops and the kind of military deployment that we have been seeing over the last six days of this offensive.

We are being told by people inside that church that many of those inside are wounded, those gunmen. They are being tended to by some of the clergymen and nuns inside.

Up until today, the Israelis were barring ambulances from getting to the scene. Now apparently at least a couple of ambulances have got to Bethlehem and to the Manger Square, where most of the fighting went on, the street-to-street fighting between militants -- or rather, gunmen -- and the Israelis. According to one rescue worker on the Palestinian side, there is something like 10 bodies that they've counted and they are trying to take away.

NEVILLE: Christiane, if you will, give us an update on the standoff at Arafat's compound.

AMANPOUR: Well, that remains, a standoff -- basically not even a standoff. They are simply pointing their weapons and their guns, metaphorically keeping him inside one or two rooms in the sort of core of that compound, much of which has been demolished over the last few days.

He has had contact with the outside world by mobile phone and other such contacts. He made another statement today in which he offered support to Palestinians in Jenin. Now, Jenin was seized by the Israelis overnight, and particularly the Israelis are interested in going house-to-house in a big refugee camp in Jenin, where they believe -- they have believed for many months that a lot of suicide bombers come from that refugee camp in Jenin. Apparently, there is a standoff -- not a standoff, but gun battles between Palestinian militants around Jenin and those Israeli forces.

NEVILLE: Christiane Amanpour, thank you very much for that report, live from Jerusalem.

And bringing Mr. Abdel Bari Atwan and Dr. Fradkin back into this conversation. Mr. Bari Atawan, is this a campaign to sweep out terror?

ATWAN: It is not a campaign to sweep out terror, because the Israelis had several incursions before, and they said they arrested all the militants which Arafat could not have arrested, so now they are reoccupying the West Bank and Gaza Strip, again, and humiliating the Palestinian people, you know, and destroying their infrastructure.

This is the problem, and I am surprised why the United States is really silent about it, they did not actually intervene it put an end to these atrocities. Women are not allowed to go to the hospital to deliver, and the checkpoints of the Israeli army, sick people are there in their houses, you know, many children were killed by the Israeli, you know, tanks and Israeli live ammunition. So this is not -- this is not a campaign against terror. The terror -- this is a campaign against people who are resisting the occupation. We have to remember that. The Palestinian people are under Israeli occupation.

NEVILLE: Dr. Fradkin, how do you see it?

FRADKIN: Well, first let me say it seems to me that the person that has most humiliated the Palestinian people is Yasser Arafat, who has brought this situation down upon them, in many, many ways, but most recently by launching and condoning terror attacks on Israeli civilians, of which the most heinous in the last week was the so- called Passover massacre, when 25 people were killed.

It is certain that this is a campaign against terror and that is what the issue is. I will go back to Christiane Amanpour's report. Two things. First, as she mentioned, the people inside the Church of the Nativity are gunmen. They have weapons. They have been using those weapons. That is why the Israelis have besieged them in there. It has nothing to do with the church, and the gunmen themselves obviously know that the Israelis will do nothing to them so long as they are in that church, because the Israelis respect that church and all churches and mosques.

Second, Christiane Amanpour referred to this document that the Israelis offered today. The document -- the importance of the document is that it shows clearly that the senior most finance officer answerable only to Yasser Arafat authorized payments for bombs, bombs that were used to kill innocent civilian Israelis. And this document dates from September 16, only five days after 9/11, and that this campaign has been going on at least since that time, and it has been picking up speed in the last two weeks. This is why the Israelis have gone into the West Bank and into the cities, because there -- they lost any kind of patience.

NEVILLE: OK, Dr. Fradkin, I have to take a break right now. Remember, this is your chance to talk to the experts on the Middle East crisis. So, give me a call at 1-800-310-4CNN, or e-mail talkback@cnn.com. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

NEVILLE: And welcome back. We're talking about the growing chaos in the Middle East with Abdel Bari Atwan and Dr. Hillel Fradkin. But before I get to you, gentlemen, we'll get to Robert. What are your thoughts?

ROBERT: On September 11, after the attacks on the United States Trade Center, George Bush set a tone indicating that terrorism would not be tolerated and he went after the Taliban and al Qaeda in Afghanistan. Israel has been subject to these types of attacks for the last year, suicide bombings, weapons being sent in from the Red Sea. Arab countries have condoned this behavior, have not condemned the suicide bombings. Israel's defending itself, because its very existence is at stake in these last events.

NEVILLE: Mr. Atwan, I'd like to hear your response.

ATWAN: Well, I am surprised to hear that. First, Arafat, Chairman Arafat, supported the American campaign against terrorism. Second, the Palestinian demonstrated in the streets supporting the American efforts actually to put an end to these atrocities and the people who were behind it. Third, there is no comparison between Taliban and Yasser Arafat and the Palestinian National Authority and the Palestinian people. Palestinian people are secular, and they are democratic, and they are peace-loving people.

And you know, to say -- they are under occupation, you know, they are resisting the occupation, and they are resisting the Israeli atrocities. Twelve hundred Palestinians were massacres by the Israelis, 32,000 were injured in the last 18 months. So we cannot compare the situation in Afghanistan with what is happening in Palestine. Palestinians are resisting occupation. They were under occupation for 30 years. So please, please, don't be captive to the Israeli propaganda.

NEVILLE: Dan, how do you see it?

DAN: I think with utter animosity and water under the bridge with these two groups that the only way that there is going to ever be peace in this region is if they actually -- I know it's crazy, decide to share power. Like one Israel for Palestinians and Jews, and I know that sounds insane, but...

NEVILLE: Dr. Fradkin?

FRADKIN: Well, I'm afraid I agree with the characterization. At point, it's totally impractical. There were people in the past who thought that was doable, but it evidently is not. And even if it were to be possible, it would only be possible after the passage of many years, principally because of Chairman Arafat, who has used this time, beginning with the Oslo Accords, to ferment hatred among his people of Israelis, of Jews in particular, and has created a climate in which what was just proposed is really not doable.

As for Mr. Bari Atwan's remarks about Chairman Arafat's opposition to terrorism and that there is no comparison between Chairman Arafat and the Taliban, the fact remains is that Yasser Arafat has sponsored terrorist activities in the past and in the present. It matters little whether he does that out of nationalist aspirations or religious.

NEVILLE: OK, Dr. Fradkin, I am going to jump in right here and let Cecil from Kentucky speak.

CECIL: This was Palestine until 1947, and then they created the nation of Israel. In the process, you displaced thousands of Palestinians. I think it is somewhat arrogant on our part to assume these people are not going to be angry when you displace them from their land and tell them they have got to take a hike. It's almost like what the Americans did to the Native Americans here when they told them we landed on the shore and you have got to go somewhere else right now.

NEVILLE: Thank you, sir.

Mr. Bari Atwan, I'd like you to give a quick response please.

ATWAN: Well, I am surprised to hear that, you know. If we listened today to the pope, who is the highest, you know, religious establishment in the Christian world, he actually recalled American and the Israeli ambassador to protest the massacre which is taking place against the Palestinians and he used the word humiliation, Palestinians are humiliated in their own country.

Resisting occupation is a legitimate thing. The Americans, you know, that were led by George Washington to fight the British imperialism. The French, you know, they fought the Nazi occupation and they were led by Charles de Gaulle. So to fight occupation is something every nation on earth did the same thing, and we have at least 120 nations in the United Nations now, members of the United Nations, fought British and French and European imperialism, and they were supported by the United States before the United States actually changed his course.

So please, those people are resisting occupation. They are fighting tanks with stones, they are facing missiles, they are facing f-16s, they are hopeless and helpless.

NEVILLE: OK, we understand your points. John?

JOHN: Mr. Atwan, I oppose your position. It appears that you are not peace-loving people. Peace-loving people do not blow themselves up amongst groups of innocent people.

(APPLAUSE)

ATWAN: Can I answer that, please?

NEVILLE: Absolutely. Please keep it short.

ATWAN: Is it -- is it lawful to kill people by tanks, and by missiles and by F-16s and it's unlawful and if for somebody who is frustrated, who has no weapons to defend himself and go and blow up himself? You have to understand the frustration of those people, the reason why they sacrifice their lives. They are young people, they would like to listen to their music, they would like to go to disco, they would like to be like every teenager on earth. But because of the occupation, because of the Israeli humiliation, they, you know, they lost their direction and they are sacrificing their lives.

They can see their mothers, their children, their brothers, their fathers are killed in their houses, 32,000 are injured, 5,000 of them completely disabled by these Israeli atrocities...

(CROSSTALK)

NEVILLE: Mr. Atwan, I understand your passion, I honestly do, but I do have to get Dr. Fradkin to answer this one question quickly please, and what should the U.S. do now?

FRADKIN: It seems to me that the U.S. has no choice but to support Israel at this point, for several reasons. The first is that President Bush has declared that clearly that his policy and the policy of this country is to oppose terrorism. And at this point, the Palestinian Authority is engaged in terrorism, so it has -- for consistency and for moral clarity, and I think also to bring an end to this, it needs to support Israel. The other...

NEVILLE: I have got to keep it short, sir. Mr. Bari Atwan, your quick response?

ATWAN: I think the Americans should support the international legality U.N. Security Council resolutions. There are several resolutions calling for Israelis to end occupation, and they should intervene the way they intervened in Kosovo, to put an end to these Israeli atrocities. The United States is, you know, the superpower, it is the police of the world, and it should side with the oppressed people, not with the oppressor. That is what they should do.

NEVILLE: Thank you very much, Abdel Bari Atwan and Dr. Fradkin, thank you very much for joining us here today. We'll take a break and we will be back in a moment. Don't go anywhere.

Still ahead on TALKBACK LIVE, the ugly American is back and he's worse than ever. Are you too rude?

Profanity, telemarketers, cell phones, angry drivers, clueless sales clerks and your neighbor's rotten kids. Tell us what gets your goat. Also, why is the government giving fat people a tax break? Find out how you can deduct those extra pounds.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

NEVILLE: Hey, everybody, welcome back to TALKBACK LIVE, I'm Arthel Neville.

OK, what if I told you you could turn your fat into cash? You heard what I said. The government will now pay some of you to take it off, in the form of a tax break. Listen up, because here's how it works.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

NEVILLE (voice-over): Declaring obesity a disease, the IRS now allows taxpayers to claim some weight loss expenses as a medical deduction. That could be gravy for some 97 million adults deemed too fat. And you could qualify if you are just 30 pounds overweight. For instance, if you are 5-foot-5 and weigh 180 pounds, you're in. So is a 6-foot person weighing 221 pounds. But before you claim that underused membership at the gym, you will have to prove you are losing weight under a doctor's care. And food can't be deducted, as the IRS reasons everyone has to eat something. And then of course you are going to have to admit you have a disease.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

NEVILLE: And there it is, obesity is now a disease which the government says contributes to the deaths of some 300,000 people a year, and provides a tax loophole, if you know how to work it.

Here to talk about this are Dr. James Hill, director of the Center for Human Nutrition at the University of Colorado. And Brian Doherty, associate editor of "Reason" magazine. Welcome to both of you, gentlemen.

Brian, first question to you, is obesity a disease?

BRIAN DOHERTY, "REASON" MAGAZINE: No, of course obesity is not a disease. Obesity is a condition caused by your behavior. And far be it from me to talk down a tax cut, but it is really alarming the way both the conservatives and the liberals try to use the tax code as a sort of chain around our neck to jerk us around, to do what they think we ought to do and not do what they think we ought not to do.

And this is a particularly expensive tax cut, I would say, because if we do find the government treating obesity as a disease, we are going to find the government trying to control the behavior that leads to this alleged disease, which is our choice about what to eat. Obesity is not a disease, it is a condition. If you do not want to be fat, we know what to do. Eat less, exercise more.

NEVILLE: Dr. Hill, your thoughts on this.

JAMES HILL, UNIVERSITY OF COLORADO: Well, I think we get too hung up on whether obesity is a disease or a condition. But one of the things that we know is that it's not just a cosmetic issue and it's not just a problem of willpower. There are genes, there are physiology involved. If it were simply as easy as wanting to be thin, then 61 percent of the population wouldn't be overweight or obese. It's not your fault.

NEVILLE: But Dr. Hill, come on now, there are people who just simply eat too much and they don't exercise enough.

HILL: Absolutely. Personal behavior plays a role in that. But you know, we live in an environment that encourages us to eat more and to exercise less, and by definition the majority of us can't maintain a healthy weight in that situation.

NEVILLE: Self-control. I mean, I'd like to eat a bag of chips, some french fries, a Big Mac and all of that right now. But I'm not going to do it.

Brian, you have got to maintain control. Yes, there are people who have maybe thyroid issues, etcetera. But there are a lot of people who just eat too much.

DOHERTY: You are absolutely correct.

It would be a medical miracle if you found someone who burned off more calories than they ate and did not lose weight. That is the key. It is a matter of willpower. And this whole government tax code thing is really the issue we need to focus on, because, if the government declares obesity a disease, like I said, the government is going to be able to control what leads to this alleged disease, which is what we eat.

And I don't think we want the government dictating to us what we can and cannot eat, taxing things based on their fat content and the like. We saw what just happened with cigarettes when they declared that a public health issue. And I don't think we want to go down that road again.

NEVILLE: Andrew.

ANDREW: Well, I think the bigger issue here is, where do you draw the line? I mean, should anorexic people get a tax deduction for the food that they have to eat and buy? Or, if my doctor tells me I need to eat more fruits and vegetables, should I get a tax deduction for the stuff that I'm buying at the supermarket? Where do you draw the line?

NEVILLE: Thank you.

Dr. Hill, would you respond to that, please?

HILL: Yes.

I think it is easy to totally say it is a matter of personal choice. But, you know, there is physiology and there is genetics involved. Not everybody can weigh any amount of weight they want. There are other things at work than willpower. And we know that obesity leads to serious diseases: diabetes and heart disease. If we could manage obesity, the health care costs would be cut dramatically from diabetes and from heart disease.

NEVILLE: Interesting thoughts.

But right now, I've got to take a break. I would like you guys to get those e-mails going, because I want to hear from you on this one, absolutely want to hear your thoughts.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

NEVILLE: Welcome back.

We're talking about whether obesity is a disease and if overweight people deserve a tax break.

Dr. Hill, why should people get a tax break for losing weight?

HILL: Well, even if you say that it is a problem of willpower, what we know is that the number of overweight people in this country are presenting a real problem for our health care system. They are causing us lots of money in treating diabetes and other consequences of obesity. So, if nothing else, let's give them some incentive to do something about their weight.

We have programs out there which can help people lose weight and maintain that weight. It is very hard to do it on your own. It is easier if you get help to do it.

NEVILLE: Raymond?

RAYMOND: Yes.

I am a product of this obesity dilemma. And I have lost 50 pounds. I was a 60 in the waist. Now I am a 52 in the waist.

NEVILLE: Congratulations. Congratulations.

RAYMOND: I would say to those, to the people who are obese, hold on and be strong. It is a disease, but you can fight it and you can win. And all of us are going to be your size one day.

(LAUGHTER)

NEVILLE: You don't have to be this small. Thank you very much for those comments.

And, Candy, you are on the line right now. Share your thoughts.

CALLER: Yes, ma'am.

I don't feel that this obesity thing with the government is right, because a lot of people are overweight by choice. And it is not a disease. And then there are families like mine, where we have three in our family that are being kind of pushed to the side, where we have three different diets that we need. I have a hyperglycemic son, where he has to eat five meals a day. I have a husband that has high cholesterol and heart problems, where he can have no carbohydrates.

NEVILLE: So, in other words, you feel like you should be getting help?

CALLER: Yes.

NEVILLE: Dr. Hill, what are your thoughts on that one?

HILL: Yes.

Well, all of the complications that she talks about really do result from obesity. If we could actually help manage the obesity, we could avoid that. Diabetes and heart disease we accept as diseases. Both of those are very much preventable with lifestyle.

NEVILLE: Maryanne (ph), you have something here in your hand called a the stepometer. How does this work and why do you have it?

MARYANNE: I teach at Webb Bridge Middle School in Alpharetta, Georgia. And we are in a pilot program that Coca-Cola is sponsoring to make our students aware of their physical activity to try to increase their activity so to prevent obesity in the future. And we are keeping track of all the steps all of our students make for a week.

NEVILLE: How many have you made so far?

MARYANNE: Today, I have made 4,809 steps, which is a little over 2 miles.

NEVILLE: You go, girl.

(LAUGHTER)

NEVILLE: Good for you.

All right, Brian, so, is this going to work? Are people going to lose weight with this incentive?

DOHERTY: Of course it is not going to work, because, you have to remember, it is not actually an incentive to lose weight, because you only get this tax break if you are spending money by going to these doctors and licensed professionals. So, it is not really an incentive to lose weight. It's an incentive to give money to these doctors and professionals, who don't have the guts to just tell you: Look, if you burn off more calories than you consume you are going to lose weight.

And the real danger, again, is, by the government calling this a disease, the next step is the government to call it a public health crisis and to try to control what is causing it. And, remember, what's causing it is our behavior. And it's our business.

NEVILLE: Fasi (ph)?

FASI: Yes, I have a comment.

Lack of knowledge is a disease. And if any money is going to be spent on any programs, it should be well before the fact, letting people know what will it would do when you get big eating all those fries and pizza and so forth. After the fact, well, yes, a person might lose weight. But have they gained knowledge from it? Can they pass it on to their children and family members? Perhaps not. So education is the answer.

NEVILLE: Thank you very much.

Dr. Hill, how do we get educated when we are busy driving through McDonald's and other places?

HILL: Well, I think one of the first things we do is to reimburse our health care professionals for dealing with obesity. Ultimately, I think what we need to be doing is giving tax breaks for preventive measures, for not getting obese in the first place.

NEVILLE: OK, I would like share an e-mail that just came in right now. Let's pull that up and let's let everybody take a look at it.

Yes, it says: "Why do fat people get a tax break while smokers are ridiculed, even though nicotine is addictive and addiction is a disease?" -- from Ron in Oregon.

Dr. Hill, your thoughts on that one?

HILL: Well, again, I think smoking and obesity are very different. In smoking, the goal is to not smoke cigarettes. In obesity, you still have to eat. So I think it is a far tougher situation.

And I think, if you really poll your audience, you are going to find that a lot of people struggle with their weight. And it is not totally their fault. They have some responsibility, but there are genes and physiology at work that goes beyond simple willpower.

NEVILLE: James, you don't look like you struggle with your weight, do you?

JAMES: No, I am in the United States Army, so they help me out on my weight a lot.

But my comment is, what I just heard was that it is an incentive to go to the doctor or have health care professionals. And my comment was, what about the poor people who doesn't have that...

NEVILLE: And that is a great point -- not to cut you off -- because, a lot of times, in poor neighborhoods, you are talking about poor quality of food anyway. And so, therefore, they have that issue.

I would like to hear Dr. Hill's thoughts on that.

How do they get help?

HILL: See, that is a great question. And that is the heart of this issue. What we really need is to have those people get reimbursed for receiving their health care. So the IRS ruling is just a first step. What we really need are insurers and managed care organizations to reimburse people for going and seeking help for treatment. And then the poor people can get some help.

NEVILLE: Our thanks very much to Dr. James Hill and Brian Doherty for joining us here today. It was a lively conversation.

OK, it looks as if obesity isn't the only epidemic in America. A new study confirms there's also an epidemic of rudeness. And chances are you are infected. Whatever happened to civility? If you could eliminate one type of rude behavior, what would it be? I know what I would say.

I'll be checking the phones and your e-mails -- and instant messages, by the way.

We're back in a minute.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

NEVILLE: OK, so, what gets under your skin? I am talking about on that reserve nerve.

Are we talking about drivers in a rage, people on cell phones, store clerks who ignore you, profanity? The list of rude behavior seems endless. And, according to a national survey, 79 percent of Americans identify the lack of civility as a serious problem. They're calling it an epidemic of rudeness. Are you a part of that?

Steve Farkas is director of research and senior vice president of Public Agenda, the organization that conducted this study.

And, Steve, I want to ask you this. Now, if Americans are getting ruder, what are our big problem areas?

STEVE FARKAS, PUBLIC AGENDA: I think you hit the nail exactly on the head. You made the list.

It is when people are driving. It's when people are in public and they see cell phone use that is out of control. It is when people are having dinner or at a restaurant or at a mall trying to shop and the other customers or their clerks that are supposed to help them are not paying attention or yelling, or it's some bad language.

NEVILLE: Or just ignoring you.

FARKAS: Yes, that's right. It's really ubiquitous. And it's really whenever people step out of the home and outside of their immediate neighborhood, there is a lot of opportunity for disrespectful behavior or rude behavior. And it builds over time. There is an additive effect so that by the time you get to the end of the day, you get home with a lot of heavy stuff.

NEVILLE: Frustration.

FARKAS: Yes, frustration.

NEVILLE: OK, so, now wait a minute, Steve. Is there any good news? FARKAS: There is a lot of good news. And I am glad you asked that question.

People thought we we've gotten better when it comes to treating the disabled with more respect and courtesy and kindness.

NEVILLE: That's good.

FARKAS: They thought there was improvement when it comes to dealing with minorities, African-Americans and Hispanics.

NEVILLE: Very good.

FARKAS: Americans thought we were treating them with more respect, with more courtesy. African-Americans themselves were not that quick to cheer and applaud Americans yet. But there is progress that is seen on a lot of different levels.

In our neighborhoods, people have good experiences. It is when they go out into the public arena, where there is a lot of anonymity and people have a chance to kind of hide behind a mask of anonymity again, that there is a lot of opportunity for this kind of stuff.

NEVILLE: Now, are there any regional differences?

FARKAS: It was interesting. A lot of these things are everywhere, whether -- you would think that the Southerners would be on excellent behavior all the time, or people in rural areas would be a lot better behaved. But we really found these concerns across the country.

Language was a different kind of issue. For example, taking God's name in vain was seen in the South as a lot...

NEVILLE: Yes, that's not good.

FARKAS: Yes, as not good, exactly right. In the Northeast, there was more tolerance for it.

Cursing, I noticed when I interviewed a group of Americans in Connecticut, they were cursing in the focus group.

(LAUGHTER)

FARKAS: When I went down South, people very well behaved: "Yes, sir. "No, sir. Ma'am." So there were differences.

NEVILLE: Indeed we are. We have Southern hospitality.

FARKAS: Yes, we do.

NEVILLE: Let me ask you this. Who are the rudest people in the country? Call it unfair, but New Yorkers often bear that unofficial title. Now, I lived in New York for two years. You know what? I don't agree with that. But, at any rate, we are going to bring in one of our favorite New Yorkers on this to talk about it. We are talking about Sam Greenfield. He is a stand-up comedian and radio talk show host in New York.

OK, tell like it is. What is rude, Sam?

SAM GREENFIELD, RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: None of your business.

NEVILLE: Hey, who are you talking to? Just kidding. Go ahead.

(LAUGHTER)

GREENFIELD: You know, I think that rude is a matter of context. If you are with three guys at a bar watching a football game on one of the screens, and your team is not winning, and you start cursing, no one cares. If you are at brunch with your fiancee's family, and you drop the fork and curse about it, that is a context where that kind of behavior is not welcome. So I think a lot of it is context.

NEVILLE: That is a big no-no.

Now, why do you think people are getting ruder, Sam?

GREENFIELD: I think that people are getting ruder, because I think, to this generation, the next generation is ruder. And the generation before me thinks my generation is the rudest. And the generation before that thinks the generation after them is ruder.

I just think it is generational thing. We look at kids today and we go: "Oh, they are wild. They are crazy." And 50 years ago, they were wild and crazy.

NEVILLE: Exactly. Exactly.

GREENFIELD: So, things have expanded more because our arts and our media have let that line slip. I hear language today on TV that you wouldn't hear ever in any public forum 25 years ago. So, if they allow it in for the sake of art, then people see that. Kids are sponges. They absorb. You can't expect them to block that out of their mind.

NEVILLE: Yes, that's true, too. But come on. You have got to have some parental guidance.

OK, let me bring Damion (ph) in on this conversation.

Damion, you are on the line. What do you have to say?

CALLER: Well, I'm from California. And I think that the rudest thing of all times would be a person who does not use their blinker. A blinker...

NEVILLE: Oh, lord, don't get me started. And, excuse me, because I just used the lord's name in vain. I do apologize. But don't get me started on that one. Go ahead on. Tell it like it is. CALLER: You know, a blinker is a terrible thing to waste.

NEVILLE: It is.

CALLER: And I don't understand, if a person comes to an intersection, they don't put on their blinker. And you don't know what they are going to do.

NEVILLE: Exactly. How about people who wait until they are turning, then put the signal on? What's up with that? I don't need it then.

GREENFIELD: Arthel?

NEVILLE: Yes, go ahead.

GREENFIELD: I also think you have to have some consideration for this. When you see people walking down the street with the earphone talking into it, see, you assume they are on a cell phone. I think they are insane. I don't think there is a phone down there.

NEVILLE: But guess what? Sam, in my case, it is a little bit of both.

(LAUGHTER)

GREENFIELD: But I mean it. I think that it is a great chance for crazy people to talk to themselves and not have someone go, "Look at that." No, no, no, just talk your head off. Make a big conversation.

NEVILLE: OK, listen, I know you have a story about bad behavior. And I also want to hear what you did about it. We are going to do that next.

Don't go anywhere. This is crazy.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

NEVILLE: Oh, boy. Welcome back, everybody. Welcome back.

We are going to do something a little different here, because we are talking about this study that says Americans are getting ruder. And we have so much to say.

Meanwhile, Cole, I am going to let you jump in first. You are calling in from Nevada. What do you have to say about this?

CALLER: Yes, ma'am.

We are a military family. We've spent a lot of time all over the world. And the rudest people in the U.S. are the people in the large cities and on each coast. They have no respect for anybody. And it seems like they are always in a hurry to get somewhere and do nothing.

NEVILLE: We do have people to see and places to go, Cole. GREENFIELD: You know, that's interesting, because I lived in Nevada. And I found that the families of military personnel were the rudest that I ever ran into.

NEVILLE: Uh-oh.

Well, listen, let me get you guys to tell me what your rude behavior is that you just hate.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What I hate the most is when you have a driver in the fast lane doing 10 under and he's on his cell phone talking.

NEVILLE: "Move over." Exactly.

JAMES: I hate when people boss you around like they are your ruler or the king of England or something.

NEVILLE: "You are not the boss of me." That's when you tell them, James.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I hate when you are merging in traffic and you allow somebody to get into the traffic; they just go on. They don't acknowledge that you let them. They don't throw up the hand or any of that.

NEVILLE: I need to give you a high five on that one. Oh, you are so right.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I have a pet peeve. When you are driving down the street and you have the lane where the cars can yield and get in front of you, they yield and, like she said, they don't say "Thank you." And then they get in front of you and then they drive slow.

NEVILLE: Exactly.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: My pet peeve is telemarketers at supper time who do not take no for an answer.

NEVILLE: And my pet peeve: I can't stand it when people spit on the ground. It drives me nuts.

All right, Steve, let me hear some final thoughts from you. What is pet peeve?

FARKAS: Well, I think that, really, your really audience hit all of these things, especially telemarketers, and businesses that, you call them, and there is a menu, and you don't get a live person to respond to, to respond to your question. Business really shoots itself in the foot and often loses business when its employees are uncivil to its customers.

NEVILLE: All right, let's share an e-mail with you right now. Let's bring that up.

All right, Will from Boston: "You want rude? Go to a Red Sox game when they're playing the Yankees"

Oh, Sam, Sam, come on. Dissent.

GREENFIELD: Spoken like a man whose teams has not won since Andy Rooney was in grade school.

NEVILLE: Sam, you didn't share with us your pet peeve.

GREENFIELD: My pet peeve is people who almost kill you when they drive. That is what bothers me. When I lived in Las Vegas, Nevada, there was a guy driving next to me who almost ran into me. And I looked over. He was reading the "USA Today." And it was on the steering wheel. So, when you talk about not giving a signal, that is the safest driver there.

NEVILLE: That's the safest driver.

GREENFIELD: That's the guy who gets the gold medal.

(LAUGHTER)

NEVILLE: All right, let me get this guy in the University of Regina, is it? Jeffrey, what's up?

JEFFREY: I'm a Canadian. I don't know if you could tell. I will usually apologize for everything I do or don't do.

But I would like to say, there are a lot warm-hearted people out there in the States, especially those people out there. I was just out to Saskatchewan. So, hey, don't be too hard on yourselves, Americans. You do a lot of good.

NEVILLE: Why, thank you so much. Thank you very much.

See, we are not all bad. We're not all bad. Go ahead.

FARKAS: Part of the good news was that civility is catching. and the nicer you are toward people, people seem to feel that it will catch. And it's kind of like a bug. So, incivility, this is also unfortunately catching. So it's really up to us as a society, as individuals, the choices that we make. And if we treat people with dignity and respect that we would like to be treated with, I think there is a chance here that we can turn this ship around.

GREENFIELD: I have a 3-year-old daughter. If she is rude, I discipline her for that. And that is part of the problem. Parents see the kids rude, and they are a little tired, and they let it go. And those things build exponentially. And then you have got a monster.

NEVILLE: That's right. You know what? A simple smile, a sweet hello makes a good day.

We are out of time. Sam Greenfield and Steve Farkas, thank you very much for joining us.

GREENFIELD: Thank you.

NEVILLE: And thanks to all of you for watching. I'm Arthel Neville.

I'll be back again tomorrow at 3:00 Eastern. You're going to find out why a man is trying to sell his mother on eBay.

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