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CNN Live Today

Interview With James Rubin

Aired April 04, 2002 - 13:55   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: President Bush says it's time to stop the violence in the Middle East, and so he gives the go-ahead for Secretary of State Colin Powell to head to the Middle East next week to perhaps bring about some peace between the fighting Israelis and the Palestinians. We want to bring in former State Department spokesperson Jamie Rubin who is in Jerusalem, and he knows exactly what the State Department is going through right now as Colin Powell has a few more days of planning before making his trip to the Middle East.

Thanks for joining us, Jamie.

JAMES RUBIN, FORMER ASSISTANT SECRETARY OF STATE: Nice to be with you.

WHITFIELD: Good to be with you. Well, he's got a few more days in which to really plan an agenda. What is likely going on at the State Department now, as he tries to hammer out the best type of plan in which to bring these two sides together, or at least start talking to the two sides separately?

RUBIN: Well, I think what happened here is the president of the United States realized that there were now grave risks to American interests in the Middle East, not only in the fact that the conflict between the Israelis and the Palestinians was reaching a point of no return, but also in the risk of a wider war. And Secretary Powell has now been tasked with a very risky mission.

It's not clear that either the Palestinians or the Israelis have changed their fundamental views, and I think the best that Secretary Powell can achieve is to come here and return the situation to the status quo, where it was last week, prior to the Israeli military operation in the West Bank. But he is going to have a very, very tough time, and I suspect there is going to be a lot more missions by Secretary Powell and direct involvement by the president if he is ever going to bridge the big gap.

The gap is that the Palestinians are trying to use violence to end the Israeli occupation, and the Israelis are refusing to allow violence to succeed in changing their political position. And Chairman Arafat has now been humiliated and emboldened and made into an even greater hero in the Arab world, and it seems unlikely to be the time that he's suddenly going to agree to the crack down on terrorism, which is a prerequisite for moving forward. And meanwhile, the Israelis have shown no inclination to make the kind of political concessions that the Palestinians say they need in order to provide that security crackdown.

WHITFIELD: Well, Jamie, you call it risky, but wouldn't it be an even far greater gamble if Colin Powell or any other representative of the U.S. did not go, given the fact that there has been so much pressure, particularly in recent days, that the Bush administration has to do something different?

RUBIN: Well, absolutely. I think the grave risks to American interests where every day that Israeli military equipment is used against Palestinians and the entire Arab world if not the entire whole world sees that equipment as American made and American supported and sees the United States as having given Sharon a green light for this operation. Those cause grave risks to American interests.

There is also the risk of a wider war. And as a result of those risks, this mission has to go forward and I think it's the right decision, but we should have no illusions. The fundamentals in this conflict have not changed, and I suspect what Secretary Powell and his people are looking at is can they develop some new incentives and disincentives for the Palestinians and for the Israelis. And they are also going to be looking at what messages they can deliver to the Israelis privately that are much tougher than the public message.

The public message essentially is, we understand why you are doing this, responding to terror is justified, but think through the consequences. If they don't make clear to the Israelis that by destroying the Palestinian Authority and its infrastructure, they are never going to have any authority in these Palestinian territories to crack down on terror, and they are never going to have the security that they deserve.

And so, Prime Minister Sharon has to hear from the Americans that he needs to think through what are the best ways to give Arafat an incentive to stop the terrorism.

WHITFIELD: All right, thank you very much, Jamie Rubin, former assistant secretary of state, for joining us from Jerusalem.

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