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CNN Live Today

Interview With Wayne Owens

Aired April 05, 2002 - 14:29   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
CAROL LIN, CNN ANCHOR: Well, throughout the afternoon we've been reporting on Secretary of State Colin Powell heading to the Middle East next week. Our next guest just returned from his own meeting there, both a telephone meeting with Ariel Sharon and a meeting with Yasser Arafat. With me now, Wayne Owens, president of the Center for Middle East Peace and Economic Cooperation.

He joins from Salt Lake City today. Good afternoon, sir. Thanks for joining us.

WAYNE OWENS, FMR. U.S. REPRESENTATIVE: Thank you.

LIN: I'm glad we were able to clarify the audio problems.

OWENS: Yes. It's a long ways to Salt Lake City, Carol.

LIN: It sure is. It can sure feel like it sometimes. At any rate, I just want you, if you could possibly take us into that room today, with U.S. envoy Anthony Zinni and Yasser Arafat. How does that conversation go?

OWENS: Well, General Zinni would be charged with passing certain messages, a formal report to Chairman Arafat, on what the president said yesterday, I'm sure, and the passage of the U.N. resolution last night. But attempting to try to get him to come around and to agree to the cease-fire, which was basically, it was thought, almost concluded 10 days ago. I think that would be his major concern, with the chairman.

His larger concern with Israel is, I think, to try to establish an ongoing relationship with Chairman Arafat. It was very difficult for him to even get in the door, as you know.

LIN: Yes, very difficult. And at least the Israeli army allowed that meeting to happen. What I'm wondering is, we've reported so extensively here on CNN, about the back-and-forth of the goings-on, and the public statements by all sides. I'm jut wondering, what do you think occurred in that meeting, that may differ from what we're hearing publicly, both from Chairman Arafat as well as the president?

OWENS: Well, I think that Chairman Arafat is -- would be more anxious now to try to move to a cease-fire. But would be very straight forward with General Zinni in saying he has to have some linkage to some political opportunities here. He has to have something in hand, so that he can say to the Palestinians, we have to help him climb down.

He'll be saying to General Zinni, help me climb down. I have to have something to show to the Palestinians before I can get them, before I can do everything I can to stop the violence. He made a very slight effort and then decided he couldn't do it, 10 days ago, Carol, and it's been chaos since, as you know.

LIN: Chaos since. And yet, in your meeting with Yasser Arafat, somehow he managed to convince you, for some reason, that he was going to be able to stop the terrorism there. Why did you believe him, because the violence obviously continued?

OWENS: No, Carol, that's an inaccurate interpretation.

LIN: OK.

OWENS: He convinced us he was going to try. But he was working with General Zinni at the time, and he expected more than he got by way of support from the United States. That is the reason, ostensibly, and I think it's clear that he turned down the cease-fire.

LIN: What do you mean by way of support? What didn't he get from the U.S.?

OWENS: Well, he needs to feel that there's not just Tenet, which is basically all -- the onus for Tenet accomplishment is on the Palestinians. He needs to see getting to Mitchell. Mitchell, on the other hand, has obligations on the Israelis as well as on the Palestinian side. The Israelis have to stop building new settlements, of course, and the Palestinian have to move to the collection weaponry and some other steps.

Mitchell has some pro-Palestinian requirements in it, whereas Tenet is almost all against the Palestinians. At least that's the way Chairman Arafat sees it. And I suspect that's been a large part of the discussion today.

But it has as its backdrop that which gives Arafat genuine -- I think, hope, which is the president's statement yesterday, and the passage last evening of U.N. resolution 1403. I think the chairman would feel that he now has some opportunity, if they'll give him something to hold on to.

LIN: But what control or influence does he really have to stop the suicide bombings?

OWENS: Well, everybody has a different opinion on that. My sense is that he's got a large influence if he's got something to argue to his street. He doesn't have a push button. He can't decide and make a definitive decision and implement a cease-fire, unless he's got something in which he can convince the Hamas and the Islamic Jihad, who hate him worse than that do Sharon, or just as bad, and who are only cooperating with him briefly because they now have a common enemy, as they perceive it. But their bombs are aimed at Yasser Arafat, not just at Ariel Sharon. LIN: Do you think the Bush administration, do you think the president waited too long to send Colin Powell, to be more active proactive here?

OWENS: Well, you know, we've been arguing a long time that they should come in, and I'm glad he's in. We also saw a month ago Crown Prince Abdullah in Saudi Arabia, and he said to us, old graves, when dug up, stink. Let them stay buried.

I don't think it does a lot of good to say he's waited too long. The point is, he made a very important statement yesterday. And I believe Dick Cheney's visit was a big -- a big part of this dramatic policy change.

It's not too late, Carol. And I'm glad that he's done it. I hope that he'll stand be it. I think that he has a good perspective now. But there's a fight coming with Ariel Sharon.

But that's typical of American- Israeli politics, in trying to solve the Middle East. His father fought with Shamir. And as you remember, for a year, Bill Clinton wouldn't return B.B. Netanyahu's telephone calls when he was prime minister. But he entertained Arafat two or three times in the White House.

So, differences of policy between Americans and Israeli prime ministers are normal. But that doesn't mean that we will not work to keep Israel totally strong -- the strongest military power in the Middle East, and totally committed to Israel's security.

LIN: Yes, but would you agree, also, you know, you talk about old graves being dug up. Would you agree also that the U.S. has a huge hurdle to overcome in the personal grudge match, between Ariel Sharon and Yasser Arafat? This isn't just political. This is personal. It feels like a fight to the death.

OWENS: Well, it was 20 years ago of course, that they fought in Lebanon before, and there is a lot of bad blood. But both men are capable, while using that, not to be governed by it, to make sound policy decisions. I think that Prime Minister Sharon is out to complete this mission he set for himself a week ago, before Secretary Powell visits next week.

Carol, I wouldn't say that they cannot make rational judgments, these two men. I am saying that I think it's not easy, when it involves the other personality. The hatred is very deep and very real. And it's reflected in their respective constituencies, as you know.

LIN: Sure.

OWENS: The Israelis, on one hand, you can say a majority, in polling, will say they'd like to live in peace with the Palestinians. But they're now anxious to inflict as much hate or as much pain on them as they can. And the Palestinians, 87 percent of them, two, three weeks ago, favored suicide bombings. And the Other 12, 13 percent, I'm sure, are now on that side. And yet the Palestinians profoundly want to live in peace, side by side with Israel. Overwhelming majority.

The hatred is there. And this is why Dick Cheney said it best ten days ago after he'd been over there and visited the ten Arab countries: It cannot happen between the Palestinians and the Israelis without American participation and American direction. And he said, we're engaged. And it has proved that it had a big impact, I think, on the president.

LIN: Yes, and what gets lost in a lot of this, Wayne Owens, is the fact that, you're right, both sides, not only the Palestinians, but the Israelis, the citizens, the people themselves. desperately, desperately want to have peace with one another. We shall see what happens.

Thank you very much for sharing your visit with Yasser Arafat and your conversations with Ariel Sharon. Secretary of State Colin Powell to the Mideast next week.

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