Return to Transcripts main page

American Morning

Away from Prying Eyes, Hussein Has Put Iraq's WMDs on Fast Track

Aired April 05, 2002 - 07:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: Away from the prying eyes of international weapons inspector, Saddam Hussein, a new report tells us that he has put Iraq's weapons of mass destruction on the fast track. In the current issue of "Vanity Fair" an Iraqi defector says Saddam Hussein has made significant progress in developing chemical, biological, even nuclear weapons.

Writer David Rose interviewed the defector, who claims to have been a member of Saddam's inner circle. He joins us now from London -- welcome back, David.

DAVID ROSE, WRITER, "VANITY FAIR": Good morning.

ZAHN: Good morning.

So, David, I know this defector told you that Saddam Hussein is very close to developing these payloads that would be capable of delivering chemical, biological and ultimately nuclear weapons to the capitals of Turkey, Egypt, Cypress, Iran and Saudi Arabia. How close?

ROSE: Well, of course he can't be sure, because he left Iraq in the summer of 2000 -- in August of 2000. What he can say is that as of that point he thought they were about halfway towards developing a new missile that would have that capability. A missile that he code- named the tamuz (ph). And how much progress has been made in his absence, it's impossible to say.

But I think the really crucial thing is not the detail of this or the other programs of weapons of mass destruction, which he gave me, but the fact that since the U.N. inspectors were expelled from the country in 1998, Iraq has redoubled its efforts to acquire an arsenal of weapons of mass destruction. The absence of external scrutiny has only encouraged it, and it also very much sees itself as engaged in a kind of race against time. It knows that sooner or later the West is going to begin taking a very serious interest in its affairs once again. And, really, the question is who wins that race? Does Iraq develop that really deadly arsenal before something is done about it, or does it get there first?

ZAHN: And, David, this defector told you in great detail about a dirty bomb shopping trip he went on in Tanzania where he bought radioactive elements from Eastern European arms smugglers. And this is how he described what happened. We're going to put this up on the screen now which is an excerpt from your article.

Quote, "They had a trunk made of heavy metal about a meter long...they had a sports bag and took out gloves, face masks which were like gas masks, and a small electronic gadget. They opened the trunk, and the scientists bent over it. Inside were what looked like pieces of black rock, glittery."

Now you shared that defectors description later on with the former U.N. weapons inspector. What did he tell you about the significance of this?

ROSE: Well, of course it's impossible to know whether this material was genuine. What is slightly surprising about what he's saying is that he appears to describing, from (UNINTELLIGIBLE) I've spoken to, pieces of spent (ph) reactive fuel. Now if they didn't have their (UNINTELLIGIBLE) on the radioactivity around that -- around that (UNINTELLIGIBLE) may well have been too dangerous for the scientists.

So we're not entirely sure how serious this story is, in the sense of, you know, did he actually get this stuff? Is it real? What is very clear is that even in the mid 90s when Anscom (ph), the U.N. inspection team, were in Iraq, Iraq was going to extraordinary lengths to try to acquire this kind of material. And it was doing business with the East European Mafias in order to do so.

Now what the defector also told me is that those connections with the Russian, Ukranian and other Eastern Mafias continue. And, of course, deals of this kind take place without any kind of government scrutiny anywhere in the world.

ZAHN: So you talked about some of those Iraqi connections with some of these other countries. You also learned more about Iraq's connection with Hamas. Lately, we've heard talk of Saddam Hussein offering $25,000 to families of suicide bombers. What else have you learned?

ROSE: Well what the defector told me was that before he was working in the part of the intelligence service which dealt with weapons of acquisition and weapons of mass destruction, he was assigned for a couple of years to a division which worked with foreign organizations. Basically foreign terrorist groups. He was personally responsible for the popular front for the liberation of Palestine, which, of course, carried out a series of assassinations and bombings through the 70s, 80s and early 90s.

But in the same office as he worked, his colleagues were working with Hamas. And Hamas itself had a full-time staffed office in Baghdad up until the end of '96. Certainly when he left that particular division and his first (UNINTELLIGIBLE). And, at the same time, Hamas was supplying its fighters to be trained at terrorist training camps such as the one at Salman Pack (ph), south of Baghdad, which I described in an earlier article for "Vanity Fair" published I think in February.

ZAHN: And, David, when any reader sees this information the first time, it is really shocking. How can you be so sure this defector is really legit?

ROSE: Well, firstly, because his information dovetails extremely closely with other verified information. For example, he has given me a long list of sites where Saddam is now developing weapons of mass destruction. Chemical, biological and, ultimately, nuclear weapons, along with ballistic missiles.

Now he's describing locations across the country, which we reproduce in a map in the magazine. And many of those locations have also been described, for example, by Ahman Saed Al-Hadiri (ph), who defected at the end of last year. Has been debriefed extensively by the defense intelligence agency, and who brought with him a great pile of documentation, contracts, which showed that he, as he said, had worked with his company building these sites.

Now, clearly, the new defector doesn't know exactly what this previous defector, Al-Hadiri, had said. But, in fact, his information dovetails very closely with what Al-Hadiri says. Beyond that, again, what he says about the way Saddam is doing business, about the structure of Saddam's state and terror operators, it accords very closely with what we know already.

For example, I interviewed Charles Dorfer (ph), the former Deputy Chairman of Anscom -- the U.N. weapons inspection team -- and he said, well, he's reviews this evidence, it appears to fit a credible pattern. He has seen nothing in there which makes him doubt this defector's veracity.

ZAHN: Well, David, the piece is absolutely fascinating. Once again, David Rose's piece is out in the current issue of "Vanity Fair." Thank you very much for sharing some of that story with us this morning. It is fascinating; it is frightening. Take care.

ROSE: Thank you.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com