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CNN Live Today

13 Israeli Soldiers Killed in Ambush

Aired April 09, 2002 - 12:01   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN ANCHOR: Well despite the withdrawal of Israeli forces from two towns on the West Bank today, the Israeli government says there remains work to be done against Palestinian militants. This, despite intense world pressure to finish up and get out.

CNN's John Vause brings us the latest from Jerusalem and what's happening in Jenin -- hi, John.

JOHN VAUSE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yeah, hi Kyra.

I just want to bring you up to date with the information from Jenin about those 13 Israeli soldiers who were killed. The Israeli Defense Force says that they were, in fact, killed in an ambush. They were going from building to building in a search, when one of those buildings which had been booby-trapped -- and it exploded, killing 13 soldiers, wounded seven others.

CNN will have a live report from Jenin in just a moment. But the other big news out of this region, of course, those comments from the U.S. Secretary of State Colin Powell. He did, in fact, say that he would like to meet with Yasser Arafat as circumstances permit. And for a reaction on that, we'd like to bring in a guest that we have with us, a senior Israeli government official, Mr. Gideon Meir.

Sir, if I could ask you, will Colin Powell be able to meet with Yasser Arafat?

GIDEON MEIR, ISRAELI FOREIGN MINISTRY: Secretary of State Powell is welcomed in Israel. He's a welcomed guest here, and Israel will do everything possible to make his mission succeed -- to succeed in his mission here. And therefore we will we will facilitate every meeting he wishes to do here in the region.

VAUSE: To cut it short, will he meet with Yasser Arafat?

MEIR: If he wishes so, he will be meeting Yasser Arafat.

VAUSE: And where will that meeting take place? In Ramallah?

MEIR: I assume it will take in Ramallah, in Muqataa in Ramallah.

VAUSE: I'd like to ask your reaction to those other comments from the secretary of state regarding linking a cease-fire to an ongoing political process for peace.

MEIR: Look, Israel supported the Mitchell and Tenet plan. We still support these plans. These are the plans that are on the table right now, and we welcome the secretary of state to succeed in his mission, A, to bring a cease-fire, and then to go immediately into the Tenet and Mitchell plan. Part of it, of course, the two second parts of the Mitchell plan are to start confidence-building measures and a peace process.

VAUSE: I want to get your reaction also to some comments from the secretary of state. In that press conference, he said that he had spoken with the Israeli Prime Minister, Mr. Sharon. He said that he again stressed the United States' view that this pull out should begin and it should begin now. Stressing what the president had said, that this pull out should begin now.

This pull out is not beginning, is it? There's a movement today in the town of Dura as well.

MEIR: No, the pull out began last night. We pulled out of Tulkarem and Qalqilya. These are two areas where Israeli Defense Forces finished their mission, completed their mission. And therefore, once we will complete the mission in other places, obviously we will be pulling out.

We have no interest whatsoever to stay in the Palestinian areas. We have nothing against the Palestinian people, nothing against the Palestinian Authority. The only reason we are there is in order to combat terrorism and to strike against terror.

VAUSE: What about the movement, though, into Dura? That seems to fly in the face of this U.S. demand to pull the Israeli forces back from Palestinian cities.

MEIR: As soon as we accomplish our mission there in order to find those terrorists who are on the wanted list, we will be out of there, no question about it.

VAUSE: Please give us a time frame. How long will this take?

MEIR: I can't give you a time frame. The time frame is according to the accomplishment of the mission. The mission is, one, to stop the terror and to go back. If there be quiet here, it will also aid Secretary Powell in his mission here because then he would not receive the same welcome that the vice president and Zinni received from the Palestinians when they were here. As long as there is no terror, as long as it is quiet here, he will be able to achieve his first goal to achieve a cease-fire.

VAUSE: Let's talk about that town of Qalqilya where the Israeli forces were moving out. We have seen pictures today of the extensive damage to that town from the Israeli forces who moved in there. Are the Israeli forces being heavy-handed? Are they using a blunt instrument in their search?

MEIR: Absolutely not. If the Israeli forces would have been heavy-handed, we could have had hundreds and thousands of Palestinians who were killed. Quite the contrary, our forces our doing every effort and endangering their life in order to make sure that innocent will not be killed.

On the contrary, if Palestinians wanted, have been called out to come out and to surrender, they don't do it. They are fighting and they are giving back a fight. This is a reason that the Palestinians are trying to prepare a campaign of massacre and they're going to fail because we offered to the Palestinians -- in Jenin, as well as in other places -- to take their wounded, to take their bodies, but they refused because they want to have a very heavy propaganda campaign against Israel. And we are doing everything possible to help them out to save their wounded, but unfortunately without an answer.

VAUSE: But you went let ambulances through to save their wounded.

MEIR: Absolutely.

VAUSE: Ambulances are being stopped.

MEIR: We offered them to help the ambulances coming in and to stop the guns. And to let them -- we promised them, we guaranteed them that they would be able to take -- to take the bodies, to take the wounded, but they refused.

VAUSE: Sir, the Red Cross and the United Nations disagree with that statement. They say that the Israeli forces there have stopped the ambulances from going into these regions.

MEIR: The ambulances are not in because the Palestinians refused to bring them in. So we have to see who is telling the truth and who is lying. If they want to collect their -- and to take their bodies -- to collect them and to take their wounded to bring them to the hospital, we will facilitate it and help them in any means.

VAUSE: Sir, I want to ask you about Jenin. You say you're doing everything you can to avoid civilian casualties. CNN is having reports from witnesses, from residents, who say they are being shelled by tanks and by helicopter gun ships. Surely, artillery is a blunt instrument in this, it's not a precision strike.

MEIR: But, look, if there wouldn't have been such a fight, we wouldn't have lost today 13 soldiers. And from the beginning in the fighting in Jenin we lost 22 soldiers. Which means that there were heavy fights.

And I'll tell you even more. The Palestinians on their television said that they are giving back a big fight to the Israeli soldiers. If there's a fight, those who are dying are obviously those who are fighting and have guns. So it cannot be a massacre. They cannot have it both ways.

VAUSE: Gideon Meir, Senior Spokesman here with the Israeli government, thank you for your time today.

MEIR: Thank you.

VAUSE: Kyra, that is the latest from the Israeli reaction.

I just want to recap what is happening in Jenin. Ongoing fighting there, as you just hears. Also, some of the fiercest fighting in this 12-day ongoing campaign by the Israeli forces, which they've called Defensive Shield -- Kyra.

PHILLIPS: All right. John Vause, live from Jerusalem, thank you so much.

We're going to get more on this now from Rula Amin. She's in Jenin with more on what is happening there -- Rula.

RULA AMIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Kyra, we are in the village of Ramana. You probably can't hear much of what I'm saying because the mosque is right behind me. It's the call for the prayers, and they're reading the Koran.

Basically, we are here -- it's 12 miles away from Jenin -- we are here because there are 300 residents of Jenin refugee camps here. Many of them are males. They were arrested earlier in the week by the Israeli troops who went into Jenin refugee camps. They were rounded up and then later released.

And we have been talking to them all afternoon. They have been giving us very disturbing accounts. Many of them are inside that mosque. If I step out of the shot you can see the mosque and you will hear the call for prayers at the same time.

So many of them are staying in that mosque. They have nowhere to go. They say when they were arrested they were ordered to take their clothes off and even their shoes were off. And they stayed that way for 36 hours.

What they have been telling us is that not only they were mistreated when they were arrested, they have been giving very disturbing accounts of what they say happening in Jenin refugee camps. They say that their houses and their homes were bulldozed by Israeli bulldozers and knocked down. They say there are about 200 Palestinians who have been killed in that camp, and that many of them are civilians.

And they accuse the Israeli army of actually shooting at people who try to turn themselves in. One of them told us he saw two people waving their arms up in the air, turning themselves into the soldiers, but then they were shot. Another man we just spoke to, a 26-year-old, Abdullah (ph), told us that he was in his house with his mother and brother. Helicopter gunships fired at their house. His mother and brother were wounded and they bled to death.

He was not able to help them, he could not get the ambulances to come and help them. Ambulances were not allowed in. And after they died in his house, they had to leave the house, went out with white sheets. The Israeli army troops there arrested him and then later released him. He's very devastated. We have been hearing really very, very disturbing accounts. But it's very hard to verify what is happening in Jenin refugee camps. Now, all in the last week, the Israeli army says it was there and still there looking for Palestinian militants responsible for many suicide attacks against Israelis.

What we are hearing from the people here is that it is many civilians who have been hurt in this operation -- Kyra.

PHILLIPS: Rula, no doubt you've talked to many of the people there. Where does their faith lie when it comes to believing in a person in a group of individuals to finding a solution to all of this. Is there any faith left in any of these peace proposals that have come forward by various international leaders?

AMIN: Well I'll tell you, first, in terms of their leaders, we saw amazing support here for Yasser Arafat. It would appear he has become a legend among even some of his very strong opponents from religious groups or from leftist groups. We saw the people were talking to and we said, you know, Israel says they're doing this because they have to stop suicide attacks against Israelis. And many people in Jenin have been involved in carrying out and planning suicide attacks against Israelis.

This person I just told you about, the 26-year-old, he said, "But if that is what they were trying to do, they didn't do it, because they were killing innocent civilians. And now I'm angry." And a lot of the people here too are saying they are very angry and provoked, and they actually -- now they support these suicide attacks or any kind of attacks to the Israelis because they think it's the only way to get back at what's happening. People here are very, very angry and they're very desperate -- Kyra.

PHILLIPS: Rula Amin, live from Jenin with the echoes of the calls of prayer happening in the background there.

Right now, let's get the view of the Bush administration. And at last word, Mr. Bush is still looking for results from his demand for an Israeli withdrawal. CNN's Major Garrett is with Mr. Bush, who's traveling this afternoon in Connecticut -- hi Major.

MAJOR GARRETT, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Good afternoon, Kyra.

The Bush White House policy in the Middle East continues to evolve. A couple of key developments, but they did not occur here in Bridgeport, Connecticut, they occurred in Cairo, Egypt, when the secretary of state met with the Egyptian President, Hosni Mubarak, also the foreign minister in Egypt, and made two important announcements. One, that, in fact, he will meet with the Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat. For a couple of days now the Bush White House, at least rhetorically, has tried to marginalize Yasser Arafat's importance in this entire negotiating session to achieve a cease-fire.

Important development number two, for the first time, Secretary of State Powell that U.S. forces could be involved in a monitoring effort to monitor a cease-fire should it be achieved between the Israelis and Palestinians. That's a clear reflection of the U.S. belief that mistrust is now so deep between Israelis and Palestinians that a cease-fire probably can't hold without some sort of international force to monitor that cease-fire. Those two key developments came in Cairo.

For his part, the president here in Bridgeport, Connecticut, talking about community service. Also, a little bit later on today, raising some money for the Republican Party of Connecticut. He did not personally address the situation in the Middle East. But traveling here to Bridgeport, Connecticut, the White House Press Secretary Ari Fleischer said the president does still expect results from both sides.

As far as Israel is concerned, the message to the Israeli government of Prime Minister Ariel Sharon -- this is a direct quote from Ari Fleischer: "All parties have responsibilities. Israel's is to withdraw and do so now." But also a pointed reference to Arab nations in the region, Ari Fleischer saying, "They have a responsibility to exercise statesmanship and create an environment of peace by both condemning terrorism and shutting off the funding for terrorism." -- Kyra.

PHILLIPS: Major, as for support of the Palestinians and the fight on behalf of the Palestinians, Lebanon now coming forward saying that it will offer its support. What's the U.S. reaction to this, and could this be a domino effect?

GARRETT: Well the general administration reaction is one of great concern about the Israeli-Palestinian fight spilling over into Lebanon, Syria, involving other parts of a larger Middle East geography. That is a tremendous concern here at the Bush White House. And it is reflected in the president's increasingly tough statements to the Israeli government about pulling out and pulling out now, as opposed to a gradual withdrawal.

Because the Bush administration has calculated even though the Israeli defense force's incursions are proving successful, at least in the limited military context, they run the risk -- the administration fears -- of engaging other neighbors in this war, in this fight. That would be tremendously destabilizing in the region, the administration believes. And that's why the administration is now arguing publicly and privately with the Israeli government that in its own best interest it should withdraw, because if this becomes a conflict beyond the current activity between the Israelis and the Palestinians, Lebanon and Syria get involved, this thing could spin wildly out of control, damaging much more than the immediate interest of Israel, the Palestinians or the United States, but damaging things for many, many other players in the region -- Kyra.

PHILLIPS: Major Garrett, traveling with the president in Connecticut today. Thank you.

More now on the crisis conditions in the Middle East. With the Israeli military offensive now in its 12th day, fighting continues to be fierce in Palestinian areas. We have two reports for you. CNN's John Vause talks to angry Palestinian men determined to fight Israeli forces. But first CNN's Chris Burns reports from a Jerusalem school on how Israeli children are coping in this crisis.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CHRIS BURNS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): At this K through 12 school in Jerusalem, the Israeli-Palestinian conflict hangs like a dark cloud. Kids have one eye on the ball and the other watching out for the next attack.

DAPHNE BEVENISTY, STUDENT: There was once in our school this bag that I think the kid -- a kid forgot, and then the police came and all that stuff and we all got scared and ran into the school. But then it was nothing, and we are alerted.

BURNS: Teachers try to stay upbeat, but it's not easy. Those with gun licenses are encouraged to wear their weapons.

ELAINE ZAKEN, TEACHER: We were told to keep happy and to try and not make the children any more nervous than they are.

BURNS (on camera): But how do you do that? How do you try to do that?

ZAKEN: I do. We do.

BURNS: What do you tell them?

ZAKEN: We force ourselves to smile.

BURNS (voice-over): It's the first day of class after Passover. A week after the Palestinian uprising's bloodiest suicide attack that killed more than two dozen people in a hotel restaurant. Parents are increasingly fearful a school can be the next target.

(on camera): Bet Hakirim (ph) is one of the more fortunate schools. Parents here have agreed to pay for an extra guard, about $20 per student per year. But not all schools have that kind of funding, which nearly sparked a solidarity strike among parents groups.

(voice-over): Adding to the two school watchmen, authorities stationed a police guard in recent days to reassure the parents.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I hope it's enough, but I know it's not enough.

BURNS: Officials argue over how many more millions to spend amid a budget crunch.

GIDEON EZRA, DEP. MIN. PUBLIC SECURITY: When you put one man in a school and a suicide bomber comes in, he will go in. He will (UNINTELLIGIBLE).

BURNS (on camera): But at least you have some last line of defense, though, don't you?

EZRA: Yes. But I think that the chance that we'll catch the suicide bomber is more near the borders, or near the cities on the way to school.

BURNS: And is that enough to reassure parents not to strike?

EZRA: It's not enough, but when you have no choice and you have no people and you have no money, then you have to do what's good.

BURNS (voice-over): Meanwhile, a children's show warns kids to show a grownup about anything strange, like someone in a heavy coat on a warm day. A sign of these troubled times, children, teachers and parents are struggling to cope with. Trying to establish a sense of security that's as elusive as the peace that both sides in this conflict yearn for.

Chris Burns, CNN, Jerusalem.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JOHN VAUSE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Midnight in Gaza. The streets are deserted. After a day of negotiations, members of the Al Aqsa Martyrs Brigade agree to meet us. Our driver negotiates the sand barricades.

VAUSE (on camera): OK, go, go, go.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Push. Push.

VAUSE (voice-over): They've been built by the Palestinians on city roads and side streets intended to slow the Israeli tanks. We're warned that many have been booby-trapped with explosives.

On the outskirts of the city we see them. A group of young men, they won't say how old. They've been in position for a week now, not far from the Israeli border, and it's here they expect to confront the tanks and troops.

Overhead the sound of an unmanned Israeli spy plane; it's been circling all night. At another checkpoint, more members of Al Aqsa identified by their white headbands. This is the group connected with Yasser Arafat's Fatah organization responsible for many suicide bombings. Armed with M-16s and Kalashnikovs, they are no match for a superior Israeli military, but they say they're willing to die fighting.

"We are ready to resist this attack," he told me. "As our president Yasser Arafat said, we used to be refugees, now we are fighters." But they also talk of surprises. The surprises are in this room. Five men and many more, we're told, willing to strap explosives to their bodies and throw themselves under the tanks and armored personnel carriers. More effective, they say, than a single land mine, because a bomb with legs can choose its target. "We don't have the weapons, so our bodies will be in front of the tanks," he told me. "My body has no value. What do I want more than heaven? Heaven is waiting for me."

At night, the only people on the streets, gangs of young men. Some gather in spontaneous demonstration, chanting insults at the Arab League leaders for not doing enough to help.

In the past, the people of Gaza had put up fierce resistance; 1.2 million Palestinians in a small area, well organized militant groups. The tanks and heavy armor find it difficult to negotiate the narrow streets and alleys. Last month, the Israelis lost two tanks here. The first time that Palestinians struck such a blow.

There's so much tension here that even our arrival caused small panic within the ranks of the Palestinian security forces. And it quickly spread to the streets. "If CNN is here," they said, "surely the Israeli army must not be far behind."

Others believe there will be no fighting, because they say the Israeli forces are already stretched. And they hope a visit by Secretary of State Colin Powell may stall the Israeli advance. Nobody knows, but still everyone waits.

John Vause, CNN, Gaza city.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

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