|
 |
LOU DOBBS MONEYLINE
Dow Advances 207.65 to 10,301.32; Nasdaq Advances 63.01 to 1,816.79
Aired April 16, 2002 - 18:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
LOU DOBBS, CNN ANCHOR: Secretary of State Colin Powell will meet with Yasser Arafat tomorrow. No word yet on a cease-fire. No word on a withdrawal. What we do know is Secretary Powell is now scheduled to leave the Middle East tomorrow. We'll have the latest for you from Jerusalem.
Gunfire today outside Christianity's most sacred site, the Church of the Nativity in Bethlehem. Politicians can't stop this conflict. Tonight, we'll talk with religious leaders, Christians, Jews and Muslims, about what they're doing and what they should do to end the bloodshed on holy sites and sacred ground.
The nuclear power industry ordered to bolster anti-terrorism security has failed in its mission. We'll have a special report.
And a multi-billion dollar bailout or simply a new way of doing business for the Pentagon? A look tonight at what even the strongest supporters of the military are calling one of the worst cases of congressional pork in decades.
And it was the best day on Wall Street in more than a month. Stock strategist Harvey Eisen will join me. He says the bulls are in charge, the bears have it wrong.
And the summer comes early to many parts of this country. We'll take a look tonight at a national springtime heat wave.
ANNOUNCER: This is LOU DOBBS MONEYLINE for Tuesday, April 16. Here now, Lou Dobbs.
Good evening.
Tonight, there is little progress on the Middle East peace efforts. Heavy gunfire heard near Bethlehem's sacred Church of the Nativity. Dozens of Palestinians are holed up inside. Israel's prime minister says they must lay down their arms and come out.
Meanwhile, Israeli forces are continuing to press their offensive into new Palestinian neighborhoods. All of this while Secretary of State Colin Powell shuttles between Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat and Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon. For more on the story, I'm joined now by Wolf Blitzer in Jerusalem -- Wolf. WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Lou, not far from here in Bethlehem tonight, there was some sporadic gunfire. Israeli troops firing not inside, they say, inside the Church of the Nativity, Manger Square, where some 200 Palestinian gunmen remained holed up. But there was some fire outside. Palestinians accusing the Israelis of trying to go inside. Israeli officials insist that is not the case. The fire since these pictures were taken earlier this evening has ended.
Meanwhile, all eyes on the secretary of state, Colin Powell. He's in Jerusalem. Tomorrow morning, he'll be getting up, driving for a second time to the West Bank town of Ramallah, once again to meet with the leader of the Palestinian Authority, Yasser Arafat. There are no great expectations among Israelis or Palestinians, although Secretary Powell seemed to suggest that there could be some sort of deal.
He met earlier today with Ariel Sharon here in Jerusalem for a third time. He's trying to get an Israeli-specific timetable for a complete pullout from those areas in the West Bank Israel recently reoccupied. U.S. officials say, that's difficult, but at the same time, they say it's difficult to win a formal commitment, renouncing all terror from the Palestinian leader. We'll see what kind of document they emerge with. The secretary of state tomorrow, he'll be heading to Cairo from Jerusalem before then heading back to Washington -- Lou.
DOBBS: Wolf, at this point, any indication whatsoever that Yasser Arafat will be open to these negotiations without a withdrawal?
BLITZER: I think that there will be some sort of statement that he will accept. Another statement, you know, there's been a lot of statements over these past several months as former Senator George Mitchell, the CIA director, George Tenet, the special U.S. envoy, Anthony Zinni, they've all come up with papers, plans, proposals. Now Colin Powell will have presumably yet another statement.
But, tangibly, whether that results in a reduced amount of tension, violence here between Israelis and Palestinians -- I've spoken to Israelis and Palestinians and they're both very, very gloomy. Powell will meet presumably with the Egyptian leadership tomorrow in Cairo. There's talk that the Jordanians, the Saudis will also have representatives there. But it doesn't look like he's going to be going back to Washington with a whole lot to show for nine days here in the Middle East.
DOBBS: Yet, as recently, Wolf, as yesterday, the secretary of state was managing expectations somewhat higher here, talking about progress in these talks. What is your best judgment as to why he would be doing that in the face of all of the difficulties that surrounds any negotiation in that region?
BLITZER: Some U.S. officials say it was part of a deliberate strategy to put pressure, increased pressure on both the Israelis and the Palestinians. And they don't want, given their own dependence on the United States for goodwill and economic and military and political support, both sides, to a certain degree, the Palestinians, humanitarian assistance, the Israelis, economic and military assistance.
They don't want to hurt Powell personally, and Powell presumably doesn't want to leave here empty-handed. So I think he was using that as a bit of leverage going into these crucial final talks between Sharon today, and Arafat tomorrow. Maybe he's going to be the greatest diplomat in the world, will emerge with much more than we're being led to believe by Israeli and Palestinian sides. But right now, even U.S. officials are suggesting -- they're not even using the word cease-fire. They don't think that that is realistic to assume, given the passions, the hatred on both sides that's being felt, that he's going to even leave with a formal cease-fire.
DOBBS: Wolf, thank you very much. Wolf Blitzer from Jerusalem.
Well, later in the program, we'll be talking with a number of religious leaders about how to reduce what has become an escalating conflict in the Middle East, and perhaps to resolve it. I'll be talking with Christian, Muslim and Jewish leaders. Please stay with us, as I said, that discussion coming up here later in the broadcast.
The Bush administration is now denying that it encouraged any coup in Venezuela. The state department said that President Hugo Chavez was responsible for his own ouster and initially said that it hoped the country could move toward democratic elections. Those comments, as well as some reports that the United States encouraged the overthrow of Chavez, have put the U.S. government on the defensive. Major Garrett joins me now from the White House with more on the story -- Major.
MAJOR GARRETT, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Lou, I guess it all comes down to your definition of encouragement. The Bush White House says it no way did it officially, unofficially, tacitly or even with a wink or a nudge or a nod in any way lead opposition leaders in Venezuela to believe the United States would condone any attempt, a non-Constitutional attempt, to seize power in Venezuela. Ari Fleischer put that as explicitly as possible at today's White House briefing.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ARI FLEISCHER, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: United States officials explicitly made clear, repeatedly, to opposition leaders that the United States would not support a coup. The tradition, the history, in the last 20 years in Central America and South America has been a tradition of democracy, thanks in great part to the United States' efforts. And that's a message the United States proudly repeats with all our allies in the region, that the answer to all these problems remains problems that have to be solved through democratic solution.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GARRETT: Now, Lou, it's worth pointing out Democrats on Capitol Hill are skeptical and they say not just because they're Democrats, but because they've connected a few dots. First of all, that this administration knows Venezuela very well. Otto Reich (ph), the assistant secretary of state for the Western hemisphere, former ambassador to Venezuela, John Mastow (ph), who is the president's chief adviser on the National Security Council on Western hemisphere affairs, also a former ambassador to Venezuela.
Two oilmen are in the White House, George W. Bush and Dick Cheney. Venezuela brings to the United States 18 percent of all its used oil, ranks number third as far as an importer to the United States. Democrats say this administration knows Venezuela well, had met with opposition figures, and was not indifferent to what was going on with the Hugo Chavez government. The Bush administration had made it abundantly clear it did not think the Chavez government was one favorable to the United States or one it was particularly happy with. And Democrats wonder if at least tacitly or unofficially, the White House gave some signals to opposition leaders to go ahead.
Clearly it did go ahead. But by dissolving the assembly and nullifying the constitution created a counteropposition to them, bringing Hugo Chavez back in power. Now all the Bush administration can do is send signals to the Chavez regime that they hope it will take some of this entire tumult to heart, change its policies and become at least more democratic within Venezuela, if not more favorably disposed to the United States -- Lou.
DOBBS: Major, thank you very much. Major Garrett reporting from the White House.
Well, several hundred British Marines tonight are taking part in anti-terrorist operations in eastern Afghanistan for the first time. The Pentagon says Operation Ptarmigan began yesterday. Those Marines are members of 4/5 Commando, which recently arrived in Afghanistan. They're searching a high valley that is believed to have been used by remnants of the al Qaeda and the Taliban. The Marines are specialists in mountain warfare. They're being assisted by U.S. and Afghan forces.
Afghanistan's interim leader, Hamid Karzai, today arrived in Rome. Karzai there to escort the former king of Afghanistan back home. King Mohammed Zahir Shah is scheduled to return to Kabul Thursday after 29 years in exile. His departure was postponed because of concerns about his security. The 87-year-old king will preside over a traditional tribal assembly in June. That assembly responsible for electing a transitional government.
A new newspaper launched in New York City today, and it contains some strong language in support of Israel. One of the editorials in the "New York Sun" described Israel's offensive in the West Bank as a war against anti-Semitism. The newspaper also carried an advertisement personally attacking Secretary of State Colin Powell for his handling of this peace mission. Asking in the headline, "If America can fight terrorists in Afghanistan for seven months, why are you telling Israel to stop after seven days?" The state department declined to comment.
Six months after the terrorist attacks against America, the nation's 103 nuclear power plants were ordered to bolster security. Seven months later, most of them have yet to even come up with a plan. And many of them still want more time to make key security improvements. Steve Young reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
STEVE YOUNG, CNN FINANCIAL NEWS CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Security upgrades ordered by the government in February are running behind schedule at most of America's 103 nuclear power plants. Almost three-quarters of the nation's plant operators failed to say within the 20-day filing deadline how they plan to comply. And they're asking for an extension of the March 18 deadline, ranging between two and a half and five months to file a plan.
EDWIN LYMAN, NUCLEAR CONTROL INSTITUTE: If they have delays in simply coming up with a schedule, delays in doing the analysis they need to do to even figure out if there's a problem and how to address that problem, I expect that they're going to be delays down the road, as well.
YOUNG: According to the Nuclear Regulatory Commission, the main concern is truck bombs. The NRC wants vehicle checkpoints set farther back from vulnerable parts of the power plants. But according to the Nuclear Control Institute, the layout of some plants makes that impossible, so operators are scrambling to research the construction of bomb shields. But the industry says the security deadline will be met.
RALPH BEEDLE, NUCLEAR ENERGY INSTITUTE: There were a number of utilities that, in that order, have said that they needed to review and do some more work before they could provide schedules. But every one of them indicated that they would comply with the order, which has a deadline date of August 31 of this year.
YOUNG: A Nuclear Regulatory Commission spokesman said the NRC also expects all plants to meet that August 31 security deadline.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
(on camera): But those reassurances may ring hollow. After September 11, both the NRC and the nuclear power industry assured the public there was nothing to worry about. They said all measures necessary to protect nuclear plants from terrorism were already in place -- Lou.
DOBBS: Steve, thank you very much. Steve Young.
Well, still ahead here, violence and destruction in the Middle East. The diplomats trying to broker peace. We'll be talking with religious leaders to see what their role should be.
And many people lease their car. Now the U.S. Air Force wants to lease aircraft. A report on what it might cost you, the taxpayer, next.
And, astronauts carrying out their fourth and final space walk of this shuttle mission. A report from what they've achieved later in the broadcast.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: A powerful rally delighting Wall Street and investors today. The broader markets growing the best gain in seven months, in fact. The Dow Jones Industrials gained more than 200 points on the day. The Nasdaq gained just over 63 points. That shows a down on that. I assure you that it should be a green arrow pointing up. And the S&P 500 also higher, despite what you see there on the little board, up 25 points on the day. We'll have a full report on the markets later in the broadcast, at which point, I'm sure that they will straighten out the little red and green arrows.
The Air Force wants to lease up to 100 new tanker aircraft from Boeing. The cost of those leases including new facilities, $26 billion over a decade. Critics say it will cost more to lease the planes than to buy them outright. But the Air Force says its current fleet of tankers is wearing out and something has to be done. Barbara Starr has the report.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): When Boeing took a nosedive after September 11, Congress thought it had a solution to help keep production lines open and solve a major problem for the Air Force. Congress gave the Air Force authority to lease new Boeing 767 aircraft and turn them into badly needed refueling aircraft to replace the aging KC-135 fleet.
The average KC-135 tanker is an astounding 41 years old. The oldest tanker spent a total of 428 days being repaired last year at a cost of $7 million per airplane. To the Air Force, it is a way to affordably modernize.
JAMES ROCHE, SECRETARY OF THE ARMY: After the attack, there was a drop in commercial airlines. There were a number of canceled orders. I looked to see could there be a deal that would be good for the American people, good for the Air Force, by picking up excess aircraft that were made excess because of canceled orders to Boeing.
STARR: The Air Force is now negotiating a 10-year lease for 100 planes for $26 billion. Some in Congress are moving to stop it, saying that the plan is a corporate bailout.
SEN. JOHN MCCAIN (R-AZ), ARMED SERVICES COMMITTEE: The problem is that these planes we're talking about have an average life of 30 years. So we're going to keep them for 10 years and then give them back to the Boeing company, and will have paid 90 percent of the cost of the airplane. I mean, it's one of the great ripoffs in American history.
STARR: Critics say that leasing, as always, involves up-front money with no ownership of valuable assets. And there are other potential problems.
DANIELLE BRIAN, PROJECT ON GOVERNMENT OVERSIGHT: One of the alarming things about this project is it looks like it's a nose under the tent. If this works, and Congress can get sort of a handout quickly to a favored contractor, this is looking like it's the way of the future.
STARR (on camera): The Air Force still has to convince Congress to fund a $26 billion lease, or find the money inside its own budget to pay for leasing, not buying, the next generation of critical military aircraft.
Barbara Starr, CNN, the Pentagon.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
DOBBS: An unusual weather event peaking in parts of the Midwest. Today, here in the Northeast, a full-fledged heatwave of summer proportions, just three weeks into spring. It's already been a year of weather anomalies. An unusually dry and mild winter, a continuing drought over much of the nation. Peter Viles now on this heat wave and its economics.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
PETER VILES, CNN FINANCIAL NEWS CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Now, New Yorkers always take the heat in stride. But when was the last time you saw a beach party in Chicago in mid-April? Credit a fluke heatwave that had them filling up the pools awfully early in Minnesota, and had New Yorkers out in force, exploring new definitions of business casual.
The two-day heatwave sent temperatures to 91 in Minneapolis, 88 in Chicago, 92 in Washington, 85 in New York. The short-term economic impact? Shoppers were pounding the pavement from the miracle mile in Chicago to 34th street in Manhattan.
WILLIAM DUDLEY, ECONOMIST, GOLDMAN SACHS: If anything, I would imagine what it will do is it will accelerate seasonal sales of certain types of retail items that normally wouldn't take place until later in the year. If you were thinking this year about getting an air conditioner, but weren't sure if it was going to be hot enough to motivate that purchase you're getting lots of early motivation.
VILES: Hot weather does nothing to help ease drought conditions in the Midwest and Northeast. Unusually high demand for electricity sent spot wholesale prices soaring in the Midwest. But weather experts said those spikes are likely to be temporary, because cooler weather is already in sight.
JON DAVIS, SOLOMON SMITH-BARNEY: From a macro scale it's certainly not lengthy enough to be of any kind of major concern and have any major implications on the big picture. That would only be a situation that would occur if you had these kind of temperatures over three and four and five weeks.
VILES: And no doubt the short-term boost from shopping was offset in some small way by lost productivity. Otherwise known as playing hooky.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh, my God, it's awesome. I wish I was at the beach. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's making it very difficult to go back to work right now, and I don't know if I'm going to be able to make it back today.
VILES (on camera): Seriously, you're going to hear more about the weather and the economy at the end of the month when the government reports first quarter economic growth, economists are expecting a very strong number, up to 5 percent. One of the reasons, it was a very mild winter and there was a lot of construction activity in the winter months that usually is held off until the spring -- Lou.
DOBBS: It certainly beats the cold. Pete, thanks very much. Peter Viles.
Coming up next here, the Air Force says its tanker planes are worn out, and of course we're going to be following that story. We'll be telling you about the Northeast, as well, as it continues to deal with more than weather problems. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Stocks powered higher on Wall Street today. Better than expected earnings, strong economic news boosting stock prices. A full-blown rally. Industrial production up last month at the fastest rate in nearly two years. All but two of the Dow components gained on the day. The Dow, the Nasdaq, S&P 500, posting impressive gains.
And Christine Romans is here now with some of the day's biggest winners and biggest news -- Christine.
CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Lou, auto, telecom and these computer chip stocks powered the Dow higher here. We had strong volume and advancers over decliners two to one. So solid (UNINTELLIGIBLE). General Motors beat Wall Street earnings targets for the first quarter, thanks to strong truck sales. GM raised targets for the second quarter and the stock rose 5 percent. Johnson & Johnson profits better than expected. J&J affirmed its targets for the year. Coke rose a dollar and a half, even as profit growth missed expectations. Intel surged $1.34 and after the close reported earnings down slightly from last year, but in line with targets.
Caterpillar fell 2 percent. It missed Wall Street earnings targets by a penny and revenue there fell 8 percent. Upbeat outlooks from Texas Instruments and Novellus sparked a chip rally. Novellus forecast strong order growth for the second quarter, even though first quarter sales fell 63 percent. FleetBoston rallied 8 percent, its earning in line with targets. And it said it will sell its Robertson Stephens Investment Bank.
Sprint solid earnings report inspired a telecom rally. Sprint PCS jumped 25 percent. It was the second most active stock on the big board. Worldcom was the most active on the Nasdaq. Posting its best gains since September, up 22 percent today.
Tomorrow, five more Dow components give results, Boeing, United Technologies, Philip Morris, IBM, JP Morgan Chase -- Lou. DOBBS: What am I missing here, Christine? Worldcom, Novellus? I mean, what in the world is going on?
ROMANS: A lot of money chasing some big names here today. Some of them to the tune of 10, 15, 20 percent in one day.
DOBBS: Well you've got to love enthusiasm.
ROMANS: That's Wall Street.
(LAUGHTER)
DOBBS: All right, Christine, thanks. Christine Romans.
Well, today's rally lifted the Dow back into positive territory for the year, but the Dow -- the Nasdaq, rather, the S&P 500 both still lower year to date.
Harvey Eisen, one of Wall Street's best and brightest has an upbeat outlook on the markets, and says bull market fundamentals are well in place. Harvey, good to have you here.
HARVEY EISEN, CHAIRMAN BEDFORD OAK ADVISORS: Nice to be here.
DOBBS: Does that look like a bull market what you saw today?
EISEN: If this isn't, I don't know what does.
(LAUGHTER)
DOBBS: Well, a couple of other thoughts occurred as I sat there looking as Christine was reporting -- Novellus, two cent improvement in earnings, off 60 percent in sales. I mean, and to rally like that -- that makes me think of a little earlier time, say 1999. What do you make of it?
EISEN: Well, I mean it's all a function of expectation. And that's one of the rules of the silly game that we all play every day called work on Wall Street. I mean the bottom line is a lot of these stocks are down a lot. The Nasdaq has crashed. It was worse -- this Nasdaq crash was worst than the Dow crash of 1929.
DOBBS: Absolutely.
EISEN: These things are down 70, 80 percent. The bottom line is Wall Street's looking through this, looking down the road and saying hey, you know, at least two of these companies are going to survive. Today they think Novellus will be one of them.
DOBBS: Well, with a P/E ratio well over 100, I certainly hope that it does. That's a very rich price for a company that has a very significant slowdown in revenue.
EISEN: Yes, of course, but that's the trap. I mean, the bears are saying the valuations are too high and the stocks can't go up. The reality is Wall Street's looking down the road and saying look, these things are worth 20, 30, whatever they think they're worth times earnings and when they have an economic recovery they're going to have big earnings increases, and that's why the stocks are starting to do better.
DOBBS: As stocks do better and today they certainly have -- did very, very well, is it your outlook that we can expect to see a significant appreciation like this for some time?
EISEN: Absolutely not. What are you kidding? If you annualize this we'll be off the charts.
DOBBS: Off the charts. I didn't expect that you would forecast 200-point rallies on the Dow in perpetuity. But in terms of this bull market, let's put it another way, how much do you see this market rising in terms of the major indexes?
EISEN: Well, I think the major indexes are the trap.
DOBBS: OK.
EISEN: I think the major indexes are in a trading range, and I think they're really not going to do particularly well. On the other side of the coin, I think Nasdaq is in a complete debacle and that's going to take time to come back.
However, in the middle, you have about 5,000 or 6,000 publicly traded companies that are real businesses, that have real accounting, unlike the publicity that goes on on the Enrons of the world.
DOBBS: And real earnings.
EISEN: And every day if you open the newspaper you see there are 200 or 300 stocks that make new highs. So the market is a bull market now from my point of view.
DOBBS: OK, let's accept the idea that it is a bull market, that first of all it feels right, it feels good. But what should be our expectations,in terms of return as investors? What are you looking to? What would you call a good year, in this market, in terms on your return on investment?
EISEN: Well, you know, nobody knows the answer to that. But look, all you have to do is use some common sense. For the last bazillion years, the average return on common stock has been around 10 or 11 percent. In the last 20 years, the average return on the average, as you know, has been around 20 percent. That can't continue.
So we're back to sort of a norm, where you take the riskless rate of return, you add on inflation, you put a risk premium and basically it's 8, 10, 12 percent a year. But that's not the game. The game is that you've got all these other stocks that are going to do a lot better.
DOBBS: A lot better, and where do you look to see... EISEN: Oh, I'm looking at when I went through the twelve-step program for these small stocks. I mean, we're back. It's unbelievable. These things are doubling and tripling because nobody wants to look at those. And they're very underfollowed and they're very inefficiently priced. And that's the home run area.
And if you look at any of the funds that are in those areas, they're up 20 or 30 percent, last twelve months.
DOBBS: Now, Harvey, you just used a word that I want to deal -- an expression. "Inefficiently priced." Sometimes that expression goes by very quickly. What do you mean when you say "inefficiently priced," for the uninitiated?
EISEN: Well, there was this guy 100 years ago said people on Wall Street know the price of everything and the value of nothing. They look at the screen and it says the thing is worth 10 1/2. Well, it's not. They've got a business that's worth 10 1/2. They have some assets they can sell.
Maybe they own a building. Maybe they have a patent. I mean, we were talking about Coca-Cola earlier. Guess what -- Coke is a pretty good franchise.
DOBBS: Inefficiently priced, the point being, within that phrase is a lot of stuff. And with these companies, as you're talking about, in terms of P/E ratios -- and we've seen valuations adjusted, and we're looking at changing expectations here in terms of return. It's very difficult for even the most sophisticated investor to deal with this new reality.
EISEN: Sophisticated being defined as someone who doesn't have enough money so has to work to try and make money from somebody else's money.
DOBBS: They're sophisticated, right?
EISEN: Exactly. The point is, AOL, your employer -- we talked about this the last time -- a year and a half, was 40. Now it's 20. If everybody watching this show tonight went out tomorrow morning, called their discount broker and said, "Buy me 100 shares of AOL-Time Warner," the stock would be through the roof.
Is it a good company? Yes. Is it out of favor? Yes. If you're a long-term investor, do you buy it? Yes.
DOBBS: What other companies would you buy?
EISEN: Well, the small cap area is just -- the education area. Bloomberg's talking about it in New York City. George Bush is talking about it in Washington. We've got this whole issue of educating and training the public. We are one of the largest owners -- I love when the journals say you own this in your own account. Why did you talk about it (UNINTELLIGIBLE)?
Yes, of course we own. We own 9.9 percent of Whitman education. Company's creating at 10-times earning. Business trades at 40 times earnings. We own a company called GP Strategies. They're the largest training company in the United States and they have a market cap of under $100 million.
With all these people that work for the government -- you talked about nuclear plants earlier. They have to train these people. That's what this company does. It's four bucks on the New York Stock Exchange. It hasn't seen five since we were riding in stage coaches, for heaven sakes. There's a lot of cheap stuff out there.
DOBBS: Well, we're out of time to look at more cheap stuff. We'll check to see how well that 100 shares of AOL...
EISEN: Tomorrow morning.
DOBBS: Oh, my god, I'm getting very nervous. I think I just want to point out that Mr. Eisen is kidding. Even if he's not kidding, he's kidding.
EISEN: Absolutely.
DOBBS: Well, no, he's kidding. Harvey, thanks a lot.
In other news tonight, the breakup of Andersen continues. The embattled accounting firm is giving up a major piece of its auditing business to KPMG. The rival firm will take over Andersen's practices in 13 major cities around the country, including San Francisco, Boston, Dallas, Denver and Houston.
That tentative deal involves about 150 Andersen audit and tax partners, some 2,000 additional staff members. This news comes as Andersen and the Justice Department continue their negotiations to settle civil and criminal charges. And there is every indication that a deal could happen as soon as tomorrow.
Still ahead here, astronauts from the shuttle Atlantis complete their fourth and final space walk. We'll tell you how they did. And Lottery fever has gripped the nation. At least $325 million will be up for grabs tonight. We'll hear from some of the people who are hoping to win, "In Their Words."
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Well, the religions of the world watch in horror as their messages of peace are distorted through conflict. Kitty Pilgrim now reports on what religious leaders are doing to help ease the pain of conflict.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KITTY PILGRIM, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): At the Church of the Nativity, three major religions and their commitment to peace are at a literal standoff. The great irony is, all three religions, Islam, Christianity and Judaism, have historically sacred sites in Bethlehem. The fact is, the people inside the church are claiming sanctuary, an ancient medieval religious concept. JON GUNNEMANN, EMORY UNIVERSITY: To claim sanctuary is to claim safety. And the rule simply is that within the walls of the church, the state has no authority, has no power. And as long as someone is within the interior part of that worship area, it is holy ground, God's house, if you will. And the military cannot step in.
PILGRIM: A little more than two weeks ago, the pope offered a brief Easter greeting in 62 languages, including Hebrew and Arabic. Christianity is the world's most populous religion, with nearly two billion followers. Half the Christians are Roman Catholic.
Islam has more than one billion followers. Indonesia is the largest Muslim country, with heavy concentrations of the religion in India, Pakistan and the Middle East. Judaism has 18 million adherents. Religious leaders say all three are based in peace and could be the key to finding common ground.
CARDINAL THEODORE MCCARRICK, ARCHBISHOP OF WASHINGTON: I'm sure that religion has a role in ending the conflict. Because the three parties are all very much involved in their religion. These are not secular people. These places are so filled with the very life of our three religions. So religion should have a place in solving these problems. And I think this is what we have to work for.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PILGRIM: The standoff at the Church of the Nativity is on religious ground, for political reasons, and hopefully will yield to a diplomatic solution. But right now this crossroads of faith will continue to be the focus of the conflict -- Lou.
DOBBS: Kitty, thank you very much.
Well, as Kitty said, Jerusalem at the center of the Middle East conflict. The sacred ground for Muslims, for Jews and Christians. Well, it is easy to forget this latest violence, the intifada, began when Ariel Sharon visited the Al Aqsa mosque in September of 2000. The ground is also known as the Temple Mount. It is the most sacred place on earth for Jews.
Jerusalem arouses strong emotions among Christians as well. It is the place where Jesus spent his last days. With so much religious passion driving this conflict, many are now wondering why religious leaders are not doing more to act as peacekeepers.
I'm now joined by three guests: Father Drew Christianson, who is the senior fellow and the acting director of the Woodstock Theological Center in Georgetown. Rabbi Eric Yoffie is president of the Union of American Hebrew congregations. And Haaj Ghasi Khankan is executive director of the Council of American Islamic Relations in New York.
Unfortunately, I'm told now that he has been -- he is stuck in a traffic jam in New York City, which is unfortunately something that does happen here. We hope he will be able to join us later in this conversation. But I want to thank both of you for being here. And if I may, Rabbi, turn to you first. The role of religion here, what is your best assessment of its role in this conflict?
RABBI ERIC YOFFIE, UNION OF AMER. HEBREW CONGREGATIONS: Religion needs to be faithful to its fundamental principles. As we see it right now, it's the issue of terror that is the primary obstacle towards moving in the direction of peace. Terror means killing innocent people, as many innocent people as possible. That's the purpose of terror.
As we see it, it is totally contrary to the principles of all major religions. If terror is permissible, then human life is a means to an end. And human life is sacred, to other human beings and to God. So, our feeling is, all religious traditions need to come together and to agree that the terror must stop.
And if that were possible, I think we could move forward. But one of the great tragedies is so many religious voices now in the Muslim world, in fact, encourage and endorse terror. As I say, it's a tragedy, enormously difficult for me to understand.
DOBBS: Father Christianson, your sense of the role of religion in this conflict?
FATHER DREW CHRISTIANSEN, WOODSTOCK THEOLOGICAL CENTER: Well, Lou, I think, fundamentally, this is a nationalist conflict between two nationalities that have been fighting for 100 years in this territory. I think religion has a very important role.
But sometimes it's the accidental elements of religion that get more caught up in these kinds of conflicts. Religion is used by both parties. I think, in the Bethlehem situation. Both Muslim militias and the Israeli defense forces have used the city as a way of confronting one another in a pretty violent way, for the duration of this struggle over these last several months.
But I think the role of religion basically is to bring people to defense of life and to the defense of human dignity and human rights. And I think that means that you have to be opposed to violence of all sorts. I mean, we see the terror. We see the violence of the terror. Both Arabs and Jews were involved in the same kind of terror in the '30s and '40s, as Israel was being established. Not suicide bombings, but bombings of cafes, assassinations, bombings of markets, and so on.
More recently we have not seen, because of the closure of the territories, the kind of violence that goes on under the occupation and the kind of -- the violence that's imposed by the Israeli army. We're beginning to get a sense of that. But there's constant violence in the context of occupation. And that goes on day by day. And we haven't seen that.
DOBBS: Rabbi?
YOFFIE: I find that deeply troubling. I think it comes very close to justifying terror. It's not as if all violence is the same. It's not as if we can put it all together and say everybody is killing each other.
There's been 18 months of a campaign, a vicious and cruel and cowardly campaign, directed at Israeli civilians, babies and young families and elderly people and Holocaust victims. And Churchill reminded us, we have to distinguish between the arsonist and the firefighter.
Now, the fact is, the Israelis were very restrained for 18 months. They did virtually nothing. And then on Passover, on Passover -- on the first night of Passover, elderly Jews sat around for Seder and they were blown to bits. It wasn't an accident that they chose that time. That was the night that the Nazis liquidated the Warsaw ghetto.
So I want to suggest that it's not all the same. And we can't condemn terror and then say, "but," and in essence go on and suggest it's indistinguishable from all kinds of other actions.
CHRISTIANSEN: I think that the terror is distinguishable from other kinds of actions. It's -- it is to be condemned. And I would say it should be widely condemned, and loudly condemned.
But there are rules of war. There are rules of humanitarian conduct in wartime. And those rules have not been observed over a long period of time. And I think that not to acknowledge that is to avoid a fundamental moral question. And that is whether the people who are defenders of the innocent don't have some limits put upon them.
I remember reading the World Health Organization report just about a year ago. And that time we were, oh, maybe six months into the intifada. And at that time they were already talking about the killing by snipers of people who were not threatening; of the killing of ambulance drivers by the IDF.
I remember one time protesting the shelling of the Latin seminary and the church in Beit Jala. And they would show up for three hours. And we investigated, and the IDF investigated and the report came back, well, there were suspicious people in the neighborhood. Israeli government officials, two of them, told me that was an unacceptable answer. But that was the kind of thing that was going on.
I think we have to insist that the laws of war and the humanitarian laws of war be observed, even in the legitimate defense of innocent people.
DOBBS: Father, I think this leads us to the question, is the role of religions in bringing this conflict and exerting whatever influence organized religion does have here, it is obviously a source of passion, driving in part this conflict.
How can religion exert a positive influence? And, Rabbi, let me ask you this question first. How can religion here, the organized religions of the world, or the three predominant religions in the Middle East, be an effective force for peace? YOFFIE: Most important is we have to begin by condemning what is clearly and plainly wrong, and what we all know is wrong. If we can't do that, then any kind of progress simply becomes impossible. And we're reduced to platitudes.
And if we look at the fact that in the Muslim world -- and I'm very sorry that the Hajj can't be with us because I would like his participation. But if we look at the fact that not only Iran and Iraq and Syria, that their religious leaders support the killing of Jewish innocents, but that those positions are also advocated by religious leaders in Egypt and by religious leaders in Syria.
And a week after the Passover massacre, 57 Muslim countries gathered in Malaysia and were presented with a resolution that said, we condemn suicide bombing because it's contrary to Islam. That was rejected. That resolution was rejected overwhelmingly.
Our most basic sense of right and wrong is undermined when we can't make those fundamental kinds of judgments. And the father made a number of points. I could dispute them.
But the fundamental issues here are clear. For 18 months there's been a campaign of terror and killing. Let's agree on what is clearly moral and what isn't moral, according to our faith traditions.
DOBBS: Father Christiansen?
CHRISTIANSEN: Well, I think there are different areas of morality and in conflict, terrorism is certainly immoral. And we condemn it. We don't see it as a legitimate means of resistance. But I think condemnations are only -- only reinforce a kind of ideological use of morality and religion.
I think there really is a need to build constructively. I just had a communication today from the inter-religious coordinating council in Israel, where they had Jews, Muslims and Christians coming together to pray. I think that work could be done on conciliation, on building peace on the ground, through programs of cooperation, are very important.
John Paul Lederock (ph), a Mennonite peacemaker, says that it takes ten acts of peacemaking to overcome one act of violence. I think there needs to be a lot of that kind of conciliation work, a lot of humanitarian work jointly done. CNN and other news outlets have done great reporting in last days about the Hadassah hospital, about Jewish and Christian people going into Bethlehem with food and medicine. I think that kind of cooperation is really important. But especially it's important...
DOBBS: Father?
CHRISTIANSEN: Yes.
DOBBS: I'm sorry. If I could ask you to quickly -- we're out of time. CHRISTIANSEN: I think the real important thing is that we have to show everyone that they have a human dignity that we're willing to defend, and that we will not submit other people to any kind of humiliation. I think that's the essence of making peace at this point.
DOBBS: Father Christiansen, Rabbi Yoffie, I thank you both for being here. I'm sorry that, as you said, Rabbi, that al-Haaj Khankan could not be with us. And I hope you will both come back for a fuller discussion of these issues and the role of your churches and your faith, in hopefully bringing some positive influence to these conflicts in the Middle East. Thank you very much.
Father, appreciate it.
CHRISTIANSEN: Thank you, Lou.
YOFFIE: Thank you.
DOBBS: Still ahead here, the latest on mission Atlantis. How the astronauts completed a big construction job on space station Alpha. We'll be back with those amazing pictures of some truly amazing work by some truly amazing people in space.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Astronauts from the space shuttle Atlantis wrapping up the construction project on the international space station this evening. For more on the mission, I'm joined by Miles O'Brien in Atlanta -- Miles.
MILES O'BRIEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Lou, it was a red letter day in space and on the ground as well for NASA. We'll tell you a little bit about those doings in just a few moments. But first, let's take a look at some highlights on the 6 1/2-hour space walk, the fourth and last of this mission.
That's astronaut Lee Morin on his second walk ever at the end of a billion-dollar cherry picker, the Canadian-built robotic arm which is attached to the international space station. Enjoying the view in his work space there, to say the least.
This is one of the primary things they're doing there. They were installing some floodlights on the exterior of the space station. Lee Morin was joined by Jerry Ross, who set a record. As a matter of fact, every time he goes to space, he sets a record. His ninth space walk on his seventh shuttle mission, also unprecedented.
The space walk took 6 1/2 hours. Everything worked out fine. The lights were installed. Some footholds were put in place. The construction crew was laying the groundwork for future construction missions for the space station.
Now, the other big news, Barbara Morgan, the understudy to Christa McAuliffe, is in fact slated to fly to the international space station. It should be core complete, as they say, by 2004, when she will fly. She first was selected as the understudy for Christa McAuliffe in 1985. After the Challenger accident, went back to teaching. And since 1998, has been training to be a full-fledged astronaut.
She was asked today at a press conference about the risks.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BARBARA MORGAN, TEACHER & ASTRONAUT: To decide to come do something like this, you look at the pros, you look at the cons. You decide is what you're doing important? And if it's important, it's worth doing. And I can't think of anything more important than our children and their future, and the exploration of the universe.
Once you make that decision, you do exactly what all the astronauts do. You go forward with a happy heart and you don't dwell on risk.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
O'BRIEN: A happy heart, indeed. Barbara Morgan heading to space in 2004. That will be a mission to watch. Lou, I know you will be watching.
DOBBS: Absolutely. Good for Barbara Morgan. And good for Jerry Ross and the whole team on Atlantis. And thank you very much, Miles, for bringing us up to date.
Coming up next, "In Their Words." Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Now let's take a look at some of your thoughts on the Middle East. Kristina Gronquist in Minneapolis writes in to say: "Thank you for stressing the idea that Kofi Annan's call for international involvement is key to peace in the troubled region. The United States may see itself as a superpower, but this does not mean our government has the ability to solve every problem. In fact, just the opposite is true in this case."
Sandra Wyllie in Charlotte, North Carolina, writes to us about the fate of her employer, Andersen: "Our division is strong and profitable. We never heard of Enron. We used to be the most prestigious place to work. Now people either laugh and make jokes about us, or pity us. Some of the finest professional people you will ever meet are walking around with their career in a Xerox box. The power the government has to willingly destroy a company is very scary."
And finally, on the subject of executive compensation and my commentary last night on the subject, Nancy Caron in Oceanside, California, writes in to say: "America desperately needs to wake up to the fact that CEO compensation is this country's No. 1 economic problem. What about the beloved American worker sharing more of the pie? Keep on singing this song, Lou."
Thank you for sharing your thoughts. And we always want to hear from you. E-mail us at moneyline@cnn.com.
Now, "In Their Words."
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
STEPHEN PORPORA, WILLIAM O'NEIL & COMPANY: We've talked a lot over the past few weeks, that this is the market from Missouri, it's the show-me market. Today a couple of companies showed us the money. We had some good earnings reports.
I think I said to you a couple of times, I think we're pretty confident -- "we" being the investment public -- are pretty confident of where the economy's going. OK, we don't know how strong the recovery is going to be. But we're pretty confident to recover, but we want to see it in the numbers. And I think we began to see that this morning.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You're not going to win anything if you don't buy a ticket.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Somebody has to win, right? So why not me?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I said, I'm off, if you want to get in. Let's see how many want to do it. And they said hey. So they all gave me $5, like I said before, for five quick picks. And each of them pitched in a dollar for gas. So it gives me a tank of gas up and back.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
DOBBS: That's MONEYLINE for this Tuesday evening. Thanks for being with us. I'm Lou Dobbs. Good night from New York.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
1,816.79>
|
|
|
|
|
