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CNN Wolf Blitzer Reports

Plane Hits Building in Milan; American F-16 Kills Canadian Soldiers; Families of Victims of Flight 93 Listen to Cockpit Recordings

Aired April 18, 2002 - 17:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(AUDIO/VIDEO GAP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Welcome back. The Pentagon is investigating a deadly mistake. Earlier today, an American F-16 dropped a bomb on friendly forces in Afghanistan. CNN's senior Pentagon correspondent Jamie McIntyre is standing by live at the Pentagon with details -- Jamie.

JAMIE MCINTYRE, CNN SENIOR PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, the initial indications seem to be that a U.S. pilot mistook what was practice fire for hostile fire. But all of this will be the subject now of a joint U.S.-Canadian investigation.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MCINTYRE (voice-over): In Kandahar, a flag at half-staff marks the worst combat loss for the Canadian military since the Korean War, a loss suffered at the hands of its closest ally, America.

JEAN CHRETIEN, CANADIAN PRIME MINISTER: We have so many questions this morning. Extensive training for combat is meant to save lives. How has this happened?

QUESTION: (OFF-MIKE).

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF The UNITED STATES: I talked to the prime minister last night and expressed my condolences.

MCINTYRE: According to initial reports to the Pentagon, two F- 16s were patrolling two miles south of Kandahar over a designated training area where Canadian troops were conducting nighttime live fire exercises. Apparently confusing the exercise for hostile fire, one U.S. F-16 pilot radioed he was threatened by enemy ground fire. His request to respond was denied, sources say, unless the pilot believed he was in imminent danger. The pilot, citing self-,defense dropped a 500-pound laser-guided bomb, mistakenly killing four Canadians and injuring eight others.

GEN. RAY HENAULT, CANADIAN DEFENSE CHIEF: All I can say to you is that without a doubt there was a misidentification of the Canadians and what they were doing on the ground, and that was obviously the cause of this accident.

MCINTYRE: In Afghanistan, anguish over the allied deaths.

COL. FRANK WIERCINSKI: They are our comrades in arms. For the last several months, we have lived together, we have fought together, and now we will mourn together.

MCINTYRE: And from the Pentagon, an official apology.

DONALD RUMSFELD, DEFENSE SECRETARY: What we do know is some very fine coalition partners of ours from our neighbor to the north in Canada were killed.

MCINTYRE: So far, 36 Americans have died in Operation Enduring Freedom, 23 from accidents, 10 from hostile fire, and three from friendly fire.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MCINTYRE: Among the questions investigators will examine, was the F-16 pilot properly briefed that a Canadian training exercise was going on? Was he properly prepared to make a judgment about whether he was under attack? And should air controllers have warned him off when he first radioed in for permission to bomb? Wolf.

BLITZER: Jamie McIntyre at the Pentagon, thank you very much for that report.

Let's check some other international stories we're monitoring right now.

There was relief, joy and celebration as some of the first U.S. fighters to be deployed in Afghanistan returned home today. About 2,200 members of the 26th Marine Expeditionary Unit arrived in North Carolina aboard the USS Bataan, the USS Whidbey Island and the USS Shreveport. The USS Bataan was where Taliban American John Walker Lindh was held after his capture.

There also were celebrations in Kabul today, as Afghanistan's former king returned to his homeland after 29 years in exile. 87- year-old Mohammad Zahir Shah is not expected to restore the monarchy, but officials say they hope his presence will help unify Afghans as they try to establish a stable government. There was a parade in central Kabul. Zahir Shah is to preside over a national assembly of tribal elders and other Afghan leaders in June.

If you're just joining us, we are going to recap all of our stories in just a moment, including this. Coming up, the latest on this single-engine plane that crashed into a Milan high-rise earlier today. Also, families who lost loved ones aboard the September 11 flight that crashed in Pennsylvania -- they get the chance to hear cockpit tapes. Are they asking for trouble by hearing them? And later, of my many visits to Jerusalem I have never seen anything like this. I'll compare the city today to what I've seen over the many years. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Welcome back. I'll be back later this hour with more developments here in the Middle East, including my tour of the old city of Jerusalem, right behind me.

But first, let's go to Washington. CNN's Kate Snow is standing by with this news alert.

KATE SNOW, CNN ANCHOR: Thanks, Wolf. Topping our news alert, thick smoke poured out of a hospital on the University of Texas medical branch campus at Galveston today, after an incinerator smoke stack caught fire. Some patients were relocated from the top floors to lower floors, but officials say there were no disruptions to patient care and no injuries are reported.

A private plane crashed into a skyscraper today in Milan, Italy, causing a massive explosion and killing three people. Dozens were injured. The country's interior minister says the crash appears to be an accident. Authorities say the plane was on fire as it flew into the building, the headquarters of the regional government.

More than seven months after United Flight 93 crashed in rural Pennsylvania, relatives of the victims heard a tape of the final moments on board. The families gathered today in Princeton, New Jersey to listen to the dramatic cockpit voice recording in an attempt to get a hint of what happened to their loved ones. CNN's David Mattingly has the story.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DAVID MATTINGLY, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): When Flight 93 crashed in rural Pennsylvania, it was the end of a remarkable story of heroism. But for the families of those on board, the story is incomplete. And today in Princeton, New Jersey many hopes ride on the contents of the cockpit voice recorder, a 30-minute loop of tape capturing the sounds of Flight 93's last minutes in the air.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Naturally because the microphones were placed in the wall of the cockpit and at the controls, most of what we are going to hear in the way of conversation is going to be that that was conducted in the cockpit by the terrorists who were at controls.

MATTINGLY: Relatives filed in today aware there are reportedly sounds of a woman pleading for her life. And at the end, shouts in English and Arabic, possible signs of a desperate struggle for control of the plane.

JOHN BEAVEN, SON OF FLIGHT 93 VICTIM: We feel like we can really experience what our father's last half-hour was like. He was an extremely brave man, courageous man, spontaneous man. There is no doubt in our minds he played a part of what occurred on Flight 93 that day.

MATTINGLY: Most today bracing themselves for the worst, compelled to listen for the most personal of reasons. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This (UNINTELLIGIBLE) is legacy. One day I am going to be gone and then my kids will be here. His kids are always going to be here, they need to know hat their father is a here first off. Everyone on that plane is a hero.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MATTINGLY: In addition to playing the tapes, there are two things still going on here today. Federal prosecutors are interviewing the families, and they are collecting that for possible future court cases.

Also, grief counseling. Counselors are available for anyone who might need their services today, to work through the emotions of day, or to work through the emotions, for that matter, of the last seven months -- Kate.

SNOW: Dave, to what extent does this set a precedent that whenever there is a crash now the relatives will want to hear the tape?

MATTINGLY: Well, pilots and experts who have listened to cockpit voice recordings in the past say they are unimaginably tragic and difficult to listen to. They say what FBI is doing is setting a bad precedent by allowing the family members to listen to this tape.

When I speak to family members, however, they have a very quick answer. They say that there was no precedent for what happened to their loved ones on board Flight 93, and for that reason they deserve to hear what's on those tapes.

SNOW: David Mattingly in Princeton today, thank you.

Experts disagree on what impact listening to the tapes will have on the families. Joining us from San Francisco is Robert Butterworth, a psychologist with a practice in Los Angeles who says the recording may bring more pain. Also joining us, Therese Rando, a clinical psychologist. She disagrees. She joins us from Boston, and says listening to the tapes will help the relatives with the long-term healing process.

Dr. Butterworth, let me start with you. Do you think this does more harm than good?

ROBERT BUTTERWORTH, PSYCHOLOGIST: No question about it. I mean, healing? How in the world can somebody be healed when they are subjected to pain? If I had my way after the government had seen these and listened to these tapes, they should have been burned. We don't cure people by subjecting them to pain. And this business of closure, which is not an psychological or research concept, is being used to justify people being subjected to the most painful moments that their loved ones have ever endured. This is cruel and unusual, and it's just something that shouldn't happen.

SNOW: Dr. Rando, though, there was one man who was quoted as saying, "if we didn't listen, we'd always wonder." He lost a son on that plane. Do you think that's why they need to listen to that tape?

DR. THERESE RANDO, CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: I think that's why some people need to listen to the tape. I don't think people should be forced to listen to the tape. If that were the case, then I think that would be cruel punishment.

However, I disagree with Dr. Butterworth. I think it is very important that for those individuals who want to know, who want to have some information about what happened to their loved one, this is very important. We know from research already that people, for instance, who are prevented from seeing the deceased body, when in fact they wanted to, they have more difficulty contending with the loss. So if this is something that they feel would be important for them, as long as they are provided support afterward, I think it's audacious of us to be so paternalistic to take it away from them.

BUTTERWORTH: Oh, audacious of us. I mean, the sad part is that, doctor, we can sit and debate all day, but the bottom line is -- and you can't discount this -- that once you are exposed to images as painful and as terrible as this, they are not going to go away. You are going to be feeling them, you're going to be experiencing them day after day after day, images that you didn't experience before. And this is healing? This is therapy? I don't think so.

SNOW: Do you think, Dr. Butterworth, that they don't realize what they are getting themselves into? That perhaps they think it is going to be therapeutic, and it's not?

BUTTERWORTH: Yes. And obviously, we understand that there are people who have a lot of unanswered questions, and it could have been done by having a transcript of the tape, where we don't hear the sounds. There is some reports that you can actually hear a throat being cut and gurgling sounds. This is not going to heal people.

And for some people to maybe think there is some research that says this and research that says that -- there is one thing that we do know, and when you are going down with the plane next to that person, those images are not going to go away. People that were getting better are going to get worse, and we can't say as a result of listening to this their lives are going to be easier. They are not.

RANDO: I think you are setting up people for some very unhealthy expectations, Dr. Butterworth. We do know from the work with trauma survivors that people who are contending with very horrific images can be helped to deal with them, and for many of them to be able to erase them over time. These people in their minds already have imagined what went on, and many times it's much worse than what, in fact, the reality is.

You have no right, if they want to, to prevent them from having information that they believe, and in fact many of us in the field believe, could be helpful to them.

SNOW: Does it raise more questions, though, Dr. Rando than it answers? I mean, they may be left with more questions after hearing this. RANDO: Oh, certainly. This is not going to be something that would just be listened to and then there is not going to be any reaction. This is going to be difficult. This is going to be hard. It's going to be painful. However, these individuals know this going in. They are not unrealistic. And they are going to be provided and hopefully will continue to be provided assistance in enabling them to integrate all of this information.

But the point is, they are already suffering, and it's not as if they were not given this option that it would make anything any better for them. I would not want someone to tell me that I could not listen to my loved one's last moments if I so chose.

SNOW: They have to sign a release, all of them, that they are not going to hold the government responsible if they then have emotional distress. I wonder what both of you feel about that, in terms of going into this, people who have already perhaps gotten a little bit beyond the hurt and the distress over their loss -- will there be a relapse? Will some who didn't experience it at first feel it even more now, Dr. Butterworth?

BUTTERWORTH: Well, what do you think? I mean, you have to sign a release. You also have to sign a release when you are involved in an experimental drug. I understand the doctor has good a intention. But what she is saying is, hey, wait a minute, even though research shows that we're not sure what's going to happen, they should have the right. So then why don't we just try drugs on people without doing long-term research?

If we are not sure, if we can't 100 percent say that listening to those tapes are going to make them better and they are not going to go through pain, let's not experiment on these people because we think they have a right. Let's keep them away from the painful memories that will endure and for some people they'll never forget.

RANDO: My understanding is from the set-up piece preceding this that one individual already made a positive comment from this. And we know from other situations when individuals have been prevented from seeing aspects of the tragedy, that they have more difficulty coping with it. Patients I work with want to be given that right. And we do not have the right to say, we think we know what's best for you. So I believe that we have to...

SNOW: I have to stop you. Sorry. I didn't mean to interrupt. I meant to stop you just for a moment, because there is actually a live news conference going on that we want to get to in Princeton, New Jersey with some of the families of the victims of Flight 93. Let's listen in to that.

QUESTION: Is there any part of your day that you regret, coming for any reason?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No. No, not more than any other day. Some days I just regret getting up, you know. Today -- tomorrow I work at the World Trade Center, you know, so that's another hard day. I do that once a week. QUESTION: What do you do there?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I work at the recovery effort. I'm part of the (UNINTELLIGIBLE) police department, and one of my assignments every week I work at the World Trade Center.

QUESTION: (OFF-MIKE).

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, (UNINTELLIGIBLE), they took down dictation.

QUESTION: At what point during the briefing did you decide I'm not going to be able to handle it?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: At the end. I just said, that was enough.

QUESTION: Did you hear people crying?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No. Nobody was -- it was quiet and somber. Quiet and somber. There was not much emotion.

QUESTION: (OFF-MIKE).

SNOW: OK. You have been listening to a live press conference in Princeton, New Jersey. One of the relatives of the victim of flight 93 there talking about the tape that was played in Princeton today.

I want to thank our two guests who were on just a moment ago, Dr. Robert Butterworth and also Dr. Therese Rando, the two of them. Thank you so much for both being with us. Sorry we had to interrupt there.

In a moment, a troubling story out of Connecticut. The case of an 11-year-old girl and a 75-year-old man. And later an accident involving two famous sportscasters. Also did you know that Wolf Blitzer started his career reporting in Israel? Since then of course he has made many trips back. Coming up a rare opportunity to hear his impressions on how life has changed since then.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SNOW: Welcome back. An elderly Connecticut man faces charges he got a 10-year-old girl pregnant. Police in bridgeport, Connecticut, say 75-year-old Jimmy Kave (ph) has admitted having sex with the girl, but he says she enticed him. He is being held on $500,000 bond. A local newspaper says the girl, now 11 years old, is six months pregnant and intends to have the child.

A couple of medical advances are in the news today. For a look at the latest health news, let's turn things over to CNN medical correspondent, Dr. Sanjay Gupta. Hi there.

SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Kate. The first page of today's medical notebook has some encouraging news about gene therapy. That's where we begin. You may have heard about Bubble Boy disease. This is a genetic disorder that requires patients to live under constant protection from germs. The best known victim spent his short life in a germ-proof bubble, giving the disease its name.

Two and a half years ago doctors in Paris used gene therapy give four babies born with this disorder new immune systems. Now we hear about a follow up report in today's "New England Journal Of Medicine," says the children are living normally. We have another story as well that involves a stem-cell therapy and Multiple Sclerosis, MS. Scientists at the University of Washington Medical Center said they used a new magnetic technique to filter stem cells from the blood of M.S. patients.

They say that after chemotherapy, radiation and other steps, the stem cells were then reintroduced into the patient's bloodstream. This caused a production of new immune cells. Of 26 patients in the experiment, 20 are stable and six have shown signs of improvement. Observers do say the new technique is promising but we still need some more research before we can tell you further results. And that is medical notebook for today. Back to Kate Snow in Washington.

SNOW: Sanjay, a couple quick questions for you on the bubble disease story, are those four boys now permanently cured?

GUPTA: They don't know yet, Kate. Certainly they are going to have to follow them along. It's only two and a half years out as of yet. The immune systems appear to be functioning normally. And you remember, these were kids that lived in these bubbles that are now living at home in non-sterile environments carrying out their lives.

It's important to note as well, that despite the fact that their genes have been modified by this gene therapy, their kids, if they decide to have kids, may still be predisposed to this bubble-boy disease. But that's the one down side, but they appear to be doing well.

SNOW: That's good story. On the M.S. story, how long do we think the gene therapy that they are trying will be effective?

GUPTA: You know, Kate, this is actually a story we've been following here at CNN for quite some time. In fact, five years ago we had a chance to talk to one of the first women who actually underwent this stem cell therapy for MS. And she was nearly paralyzed at that time five years ago and has actually made a quite a remarkable recovery. You can see here, actually getting around pretty well, only having a little bit of difficulty with her hands in terms of typing, things like that, but has made a really remarkable improvement.

Kate, it's still pretty early to tell and offer a lot of optimism about how well stem cells will work, but as you can see in this particular story, she's done quite remarkably well.

SNOW: Both very optimistic stories. Thank you.

GUPTA: Yeah, good stories. Thanks, Kate.

SNOW: CNN medical correspondent Dr. Sanjay Gupta, thanks again.

She's been down and soon she'll be off the air. Coming up, what finally did "Ally McBeal" in.

Also, the accident that hurt Marv Albert. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SNOW: The show that made Calista Flockhart and dancing babies famous is ending its five-year run. The Fox network today announced it's canceling "Ally McBeal" because of low ratings. The series finale will air May 20. The show was created by acclaimed TV writer David E. Kelley. It centers around a law firm and its quirky central character, played by Flockhart.

Marv Albert is said to be in good condition after he and fellow sportscaster Mike Fratello were injured in a traffic accident in New Jersey this morning. Both men were cut on the face, and Albert suffered a concussion and a sprained ankle after their limousine hit a stalled truck. Albert is being held for observation at a medical center in Trenton.

A publicist for Robert Duvall says the Academy Award-winning actor broke six ribs rehearsing for a film. Duvall is working on a movie titled "Open Range," directed by Kevin Costner. It's reportedly shooting on location in Canada.

When we return, Wolf Blitzer shows you a side of Jerusalem you may not have seen on the news.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HAMILTON PETERSON, FATHER DIED ON FLIGHT 93: ... we would, as a collective body of the families, like to thank the director of the FBI, Mr. Mueller, as well as Katherine Terneman (ph) and Gale Mursky (ph) of the FBI victims assistance program for being kind enough to give us what really amounts to an unprecedented opportunity to hear something this historical. And that's pretty much it. Thank you very much.

QUESTION: Your occupation an your age?

SNOW: You were hearing there from a relative of one of the victims of flight 93, which crashed in rural Pennsylvania after coming out after hearing the audio tapes of final moments of the crash. You heard him say as families, they would like to thank the FBI and its director, Robert Mueller, for, in his words, "being kind enough to give us an unprecedented opportunity." He called the opportunity to hear these audio tapes "historic." We now go back to Wolf Blitzer live in Jerusalem -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Thank you very much, Kate. This note: Earlier today, I had a chance to go to the old city of Jerusalem, which is right behind me. Some three decades ago, I began my journalistic career here in Jerusalem as a young correspondent for the Reuters News Agency. I've been coming back to this part of the world regularly on assignments during the '90s. I often traveled with President Clinton at that time when he came here. I remember when he came here to attend Yitzhak Rabin's funeral, as well as for the election of Ehud Barak. (BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: The president heads back to Washington to deal with a whole host of other domestic and international issues. But with the fate of the Arab-Israeli peace process now uncertain, he'll have to devote more of his energies to make sure it survives.

Yet he and his aides say there will be plenty of time for that. Now is the time for mourning.

Many Israelis and Palestinians say Prime Minister Rabin made the transition from warrior to politician to peacemaker. General Barak has moved from warrior to politician. The question now, what kind of peacemaker will he turn out to be.

Now inside the old city, just inside Jaffa Gate. This area is a wonderful area, the old city of Jerusalem. It's so special. It's sacred to Judaism, Christianity and Islam. It's a wonderful place where every time I have come to Israel, every time I come to Jerusalem, I always want to come here, just walk through the walled city, see some of the sights, smell the areas, feel it, watch it and appreciate what this old city of Jerusalem is all about. It's a city that's is like no other city in the world, and for a sentimental reporter like me it's wonderful just to come here and get a feeling what's going on, even if that feeling right now is depressing.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: Very depressing indeed. Not many people in the old city of Jerusalem. Let's go to New York now, get a preview of LOU DOBBS MONEYLINE, which begins right at the top of the hour -- Lou.

LOU DOBBS, HOST, MONEYLINE: Wolf, thank you very much. Coming up tonight, a United Nations official calls the Jenin refugee camp "horrifying and shocking." Meanwhile, violence has broken out around the Church of the Nativity again. We'll have a live report for you from Jerusalem. And Martin Indyk, former ambassador to Israel, will be among my guests. Also George Friedman of Stratford to talk about the success or failure of Colin Powell's trip. He returned home without a cease-fire, without an Israeli withdrawal, but the president nonetheless is calling this trip a success. We'll have a report from the White House.

Also, accounting fraud, the collapse of Enron, corporate excess and abuse -- investor confidence waning. The Securities and Exchange Commission is now in charge of restoring that confidence and protecting investors. I'll be talking with SEC Chairman Harvey Pitt tonight. All of that, a lot more coming up at the top of the hour. Please join us. Now back to Wolf Blitzer in Jerusalem -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Thank you very much, Lou. We'll be watching. Our poll is about to close. You might want to log in. Go to our Web site. You can vote, CNN.com/wolf, answer this question: "Whose story do you believe about the deaths in the Palestinian refugee camp?" We'll be right back. Kate Snow is in Washington. She has got a breaking news development -- Kate. SNOW: Wolf, we want to tell you about an Amtrak train derailment that we're just learning about. It happened in Volusia County, Florida. We understand that this is an Amtrak passenger train, which is derailed, again, in Volusia County, Florida. Very few details coming in at this point, but you're taking a look there at a live picture, courtesy of WFTV. We will continue to follow this.

Again, just to recap, an Amtrak passenger train, we understand, has derailed in Volusia County, Florida. We'll bring you more as soon as we possibly can.

BLITZER: Thank you very much, Kate. Let's get the results of our Web question of the day: "Whose story do you believe when it comes to the Jenin refugee camp? Do you believe the Palestinian, the Israeli, or neither?" The answer: 31 percent say they believe the Israeli version, 35 percent say they believe the Palestinian version. Only 13 percent say they don't have an opinion, neither version they don't believe. Remember: This is not a scientific poll.

Time now to hear from you. We have some e-mailers who sent us this. For example, Luis asks: "Has anyone investigated the authenticity of the so-called Jenin massacre? Could it have been staged by an Arab terrorist group? How can Israel be guilty of such horror after the horror the Jews experienced during World War II." Victor writes: "The Israeli army committed war crimes against civilians in Jenin, then blatantly attempted to cover them up. Its soldiers refused to allow aid workers and journalists into the camp, even as people were slowly dying." And Jean says: "Whether it's a human bomb or the army's assault on a people incapable of defending themselves, it's still terrorism. Both sides are terrorists."

Let's go back to Kate Snow. She's got some more details -- Kate.

SNOW: Wolf, we want to recap what we've been taking a look at. Just at the end there, you can see some cars, there you can clearly see cars of an Amtrak train, which we understand has derailed, now apparently in Putnam County, Florida. We had said Volusia County, but I see on the screen Putnam County, Florida.

Looks like those may be passengers coming out of that train. Of course, we're trying to get as much information as we can. We will bring that to you just as soon as we know more about this. But for now, all that we do know is that this is Amtrak passenger train. Looks to be some people walking away from the scene there; good news there. And we will bring you more in LOU DOBBS MONEYLINE, which begins right now.

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