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CNN Saturday Morning News
Interview With Bert Sugar
Aired April 27, 2002 - 08:55 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
MILES O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Well, in boxing he's simply known as "The Greatest," and Muhammad Ali's amazing life and career are the focus of a new book co-authored by boxing writer, analyst and a great one on his own right, Bert Sugar.
The book is "Sting Like A Bee: The Muhammad Ali Story." And Mr. Sugar joins us from our New York bureau with his trademark fedora and -- well, we can't legally say this, it's not a Cuban, right?
BERT SUGAR, EDITOR, CO-AUTHOR, "STING LIKE A BEE," "MUHAMMAD ALI: THE GREATEST": No, it isn't.
O'BRIEN: OK.
SUGAR: Every time I try to give one to Rudy Giuliani he always says, "It's not a Cuban, is it?" I say, "No."
O'BRIEN: Panamanian cigar there. All right, good to see you, sir.
SUGAR: Miles, my pleasure.
O'BRIEN: Thanks for getting up early on our behalf. I know you guys, you know, you know how it is in New York with late nights and all.
SUGAR: Well, and I also, just as an aside, I did also a keepsake. The one you showed was Ali had me, he and his bride Lani, a keepsake book or a collector's item that he is involved in called "Muhammad Ali." So it's twofold on the Muhammad Ali side.
O'BRIEN: Got you. All right, so you're doing all kinds of Muhammad Ali retrospectives with his permission. You have a longstanding relationship with him. Just give us a little bit of the history of your relationship with him and how you have mentioned a friendship over the years.
SUGAR: Well, I've always found him to be the most effervescent person I've ever met. Fun, upbeat. I knew him way back when his name was Cassius Clay. Went up to Deer Lake, his then training camp, up in Pennsylvania. Would spar with him. I think he let me hit him once.
O'BRIEN: Wait a minute, wait a minute, wait a minute. You sparred with Muhammad Ali? SUGAR: Unfortunately for me, yes.
O'BRIEN: Were you heavily padded?
SUGAR: No. But I...
O'BRIEN: You had that face mask?
SUGAR: But I had boxed years ago as a kid and I think my nickname was the great white hopeless. But he had, we went in and sparred and it was a delight. And Ali has always been a wonderful delight to me. He is probably an epitomization of a whole age when people grew up and he was fun for the age and for us.
O'BRIEN: You know what's interesting to me is if you look back in the history, and I think we forget about it these days, in 1967 he resisted the draft, converted to Islam, changed his name from Cassius Clay to Muhammad Ali. That could have been a point where he faded into oblivion, because he was harshly criticized at the time.
Just the opposite happened. How do you suppose that happened?
SUGAR: Well, several things happened. I think we grew up with our -- and the young kids who were resisting the Vietnamese conflict grew up and had embraced him as a symbol. Number two of which is other people came to the fore, i.e., Bob McNamara, then Secretary of the Treasury, Secretary of War, and said it was a mistake.
And last, and hardly least, I think, there's been a healing process over Vietnam and we respect a man who, for three and a half years, went without, went without a job, without a way to make a living, sacrificed all that to make a stance, an appreciation of Ali, and I think we've grown with him and he for us.
O'BRIEN: All right, I'm sorry, Bert, we are running out of time. One quick question for you, though.
SUGAR: Go ahead, sir.
O'BRIEN: I've always been curious about this. I am not truly a boxing fan. I'm sorry to say that in your company...
SUGAR: That's all right.
O'BRIEN: ... because I know you are a ringside guy to your core for five decades now. And yet I am a big fan of Muhammad Ali. I think there are a lot of people like that. Why?
SUGAR: He transcended boxing. It's that simple. He became a world figure not just a boxing figure. Ali stood for a lot more than just boxing.
O'BRIEN: All right, Bert Sugar is the man. The book, actually, a pair of books, "Sting Like A Bee: The Muhammad Ali Story," and the other one is "Muhammad Ali: The Collector's Edition." Some great photographs in there, which I'm sorry we didn't put on the air. Bert, next time we'll try to -- oh, you've got the cover on there. We got that, at least.
SUGAR: Yes, and I...
O'BRIEN: We appreciate you getting up early...
SUGAR: And I appreciate you. Thank you.
O'BRIEN: ... getting up early on our behalf and we'll see you soon. We'll see you at the fights. Take care.
SUGAR: Indeed.
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