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CNN Live Today
Military Tribunal Called to Order on Hollywood Soundstage
Aired May 01, 2002 - 10:41 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
DARYN KAGAN, CNN ANCHOR: Did you see "Jag" last night, an episode that dealt with the Pentagon and the Pentagon's relationship with Hollywood. Critics say that dramatic productions get access to information that factual reporting does not.
Let's take a look with more on that with -- here's Frank Buckley.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
FRANK BUCKLEY, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It's a military tribunal called to order on a Hollywood soundstage.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You honor, this is not a court martial.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BUCKLEY: Writer Charles Holland penned the script for the April 30th episode of the CBS show "Jag," which U.S. military lawyers reviewed at the show's request. Holland says the lawyers helped to incorporate details of how the real tribunals will run weeks before the real details were made public.
CHARLES HOLLAND, WRITER, "JAG": They pointed out the things inaccurate, and then I was able to ask questions and follow-up question, and from those glean what I wanted to know.
BUCKLEY: To critics of the Pentagon, it was the latest instance of entertainment producers receiving special access to the military to tell more stories. A spade of reality programs like the CBS show "American Fighter Pilot" also getting Pentagon cooperation.
The trend is causing some critics to worry about the Pentagon's relationship with Hollywood. Is it at the expense of mainstream journalism.
ROBERT THOMPSON, SYRACUSE UNIVERSITY: Journalist are very much a part of the equation that has made the experiment work for as many years as it has, and when you begin to bypass that by getting out information through entertainment, you upset that very delicate balance.
BUCKLEY: Take the "Jag" episode, the real tribunals will not be televised.
ROBERT LICHTER, CENTER FOR MEDIA & PUBLIC AFFAIRS: That means the only pictures we will get out the tribunals work will be pictures of fictional trials from primetime TV.
BUCKLEY: Don Bellisario is the creator and executive producer of "Jag."
DON BELLISARIO, EXEC. PRODUCER, "JAG": The Afghan terrain before it's hit by a missile.
BUCKLEY: This episode dealing with another war-related episode. Bellisario says his job is not the same as a journalist, and the public knows it.
BELLISARIO: My role is not to question, my role is to do a show. The show is not reality. And the audience out there knows they are not watching a news show.
BUCKLEY: Pentagon officials say Jag's writers did not receive any privileged information, but they say entertainment programs are an important avenue through which to tell the military's story.
PHIL STRUB, DEPT. OF DEFENSE: They're entertainment production, yes. We have surveys that show that a very significant number of Americans form their impressions of the military from these very entertainment productions. So it's important for us to be concerned about them.
BUCKLEY: And to be fair, the military regularly provides access to main street reporters, like this one. I recently got a ride in an F-18 Superhornet to be seen in an upcoming "CNN PRESENTS" program. It's the kind of shot Bellisario says he's had difficulty getting recently.
BELLISARIO: We can't get a helicopter if we need it. We can't get an F-14 to work for us right now, because we're at war.
BUCKLEY: A war whose detainees will face tribunals, closed to cameras, the fictional version as close as the public will get to seeing the real thing.
Frank Buckley, CNN, Los Angeles.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
KAGAN: All right, well, just how realistic was last night's "Jag" episode? Scott Silliman served as a senior air force attorney for tactical air command in the Gulf War. He now heads the Center for Law, Ethics and National Security at Duke University, and he joins now live to talk about the dramatized tribunal that we were able to watch last night.
Scott, good morning.
SCOTT SILLIMAN, CENTER FOR LAW ETHICS AND NATIONAL SECURITY, DUKE UNIVERSITY: Good morning.
KAGAN: I've had worse assignment than having to watch good looking actors play out a military tribunal. But how accurate was it? Overall, what do you think?
SILLIMAN: Well, I would say it's probably 98 percent accurate, Daryn.
And again, as you've already heard on the previous segment, it's good entertainment, it's great for recruiting for the services, but it's not actually accurate as far as the legal proceeding.
For example, at the beginning of the show, as you may recall, there was kind of a tabletop discussion as far as whether the Navy judge advocate general would defend or prosecute the case, and the hero, Harm, of course ends up prosecuting.
KAGAN: It was almost like picking teams.
SILLIMAN: It was. Well, Daryn, that's not the way it works.
KAGAN: It's not done on a whim. It's a very regimented procedure. These defense lawyers and prosecutors are part of networks that specialize in that. So they are detailed to the case, and that's misleading. The other thing that kind of concerned me a little bit was the Navy T-Jag, prior to the commission dealing with this client getting upset and actually throttling him in the bridge, and then the prosecutor at the end of the show, saying if he hadn't been convicted and sentenced to death, I would have killed him myself. Daryn, that's just -- that's not going to happen. Military lawyers are extremely professional.
KAGAN: Well, of course we don't exactly how these military tribunals would really work. Have the government hasn't said. As I was watching the show last night, as it was developing, I was thinking, really, that would be part of the military tribunal. I want to show you one clip that deals with bringing in hearsay.
Let's listen to that.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What did General Abdullah have to say, Captain?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Objection hearsay.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Your honor, this is not a court-martial. The tribunal's evidentiary rules expressly permit hearsay.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Only that hearsay which appears credible and reliable. This is neither.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Your honor, counsel is getting ahead of himself. Our intent is to compensate for the fog of war and provide a full and clear picture of the circumstances. That is what Captain Alexander testimony's will do, sir.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KAGAN: So what is it? Would they allow hearsay, do you think, in a military tribunal?
SILLIMAN: Yes, that's fairly accurate, Daryn.
Again, the rules of evidence are relaxed to allow in evidence that has a probative value to the reasonable man. Now what can't happen is in that episode last night, the prosecutor, Harm, calls the terrorist accused to the stand. That can't happen.
KAGAN: That was another moment. What that brought up was, does the Fifth Amendment apply in a military tribunal?
SILLIMAN: The Fifth Amendment doesn't necessarily apply, Daryn, but the rules that were published on March 231st specifically preclude the accused from having to testify, except if he elects to do it on his own behalf. That's clearly not what was portrayed last night.
KAGAN: No, he said he would go.
SILLIMAN: But you see, he was called by the prosecutor. That's a violence of the rules.
KAGAN: If he wanted to do like his own self-defense or something.
SILLIMAN: If the defense counsel wanted to call him on own behalf, he could do that but then he could be cross-examined. The show didn't portray that correctly.
KAGAN: And just real quickly, they carried out this military tribunal on a ship. You say that that's not how it would happen.
SILLIMAN: No, they're going to be carried out probably at Guantanamo Bay. If you have a commission on a ship, Daryn, that's going to open up review and the article three quarters on jurisdiction. The administration clearly is not going to let that happen.
KAGAN: Hate when that happens.
Scott Silliman from Duke University, thanks for letting us kind of unblur the line between entertainment and what will eventuality be reality. Good to see you.
SILLIMAN: Thanks, Daryn.
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