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CNN Live Today
Interview With Christopher Patten
Aired May 02, 2002 - 14:34 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: President Bush is talking Middle East, among other issues and meeting today with European leaders. Mr. Bush says the U.S. and E.U. share a common vision of two states, Israel and Palestine, side by side, living in peace and security.
As we mentioned, representatives from the U.N., Russia, also in Washington, holding that strategy session along with the U.S. and the E.U. The topic certainly is the Middle East crisis. And Christopher Patten is the E.U.'s commissioner for external relations. He is with us right now, our guest from Washington.
Sir, good afternoon to you. Good to talk toy you. I appreciate you making time for us.
CHRISTOPHER PATTEN, E.U. EXTERNAL RELATIONS COMMISSIONER: Nice to be with you.
HEMMER: Tell us about the meeting today. What was talked about in the White House?
PATTEN: I think it was a good meeting between friends. There's a recognition that when we manage to work together it's not only good for the United States and Europe, but good for the world. I think that's what we demonstrated in the fight against terrorism. And we agreed on a lot of positive measures today.
It's what happened with the trade talks in Doha, with the talks on the financing of development in poor countries a few weeks ago. And it is true in Afghanistan and the Balkans. We do have one or two disputes. But I think one has to keep them in context.
HEMMER: I want to get to the disputes. What are the disagreements right now? Because, clearly, the Europeans and the U.S., at least to this point, have not seen eye to eye on everything, especially when it comes to the incursions by the Israeli military.
PATTEN: I think we're working very closely on the Middle East. And we have strongly supported the efforts made by Secretary Powell. We had a meeting a few weeks ago in Madrid at which, as you were saying, the U.N., the European Union, the Russian Federation, all gave their support to that peace mission.
And we continue to support the outcome which the president talked about today. That is, two states -- a viable Palestinian state and an Israeli state able to live behind secure boundaries. We want to have an end to the violence. We bitterly condemn the suicide bombing and we want to see the withdrawal of Israeli defense force. So there's no disagreement about those strategic issues.
The disagreements we've tended to have, which I think are taken out of proportion very often, tend to be about trade and economic issues. And there we have a trade relationship which is worth a billion dollars a day.
HEMMER: But certainly there has been strain about the whole Jenin fact-finding mission. Certainly there's been strain about the U.S. and its position. Some would consider it half support for the military operation because they made a demand to get out but Israel did not follow it.
Certainly, there are disagreements in this area. I guess my point is that if there are disagreements, do you see the ability between the two sides to forge together?
PATTEN: Yes, I do. And I think we have been doing that in the Middle East. And there is a very strong sense we have that where we are able to work together, where we can share the same strategic objectives, it's in everybody's interests. And I think that's certainly true of the Middle East, as it is of elsewhere.
The disagreements we've had have I think been about, on the whole, about 2 or 3 percent of our trading relationship. And they are manageable, provided we stick to international rules.
HEMMER: Let me ask you a few questions. There is talk out of Israel that Prime Minister Sharon is going to come to President Bush next week and propose a physical separation between Israelis an Palestinians. Did you talk about that today?
PATTEN: We didn't talk about that. I've read those reports. I hope that what Mr. Sharon means by that is that we will find a two- state solution based on the '67 borders and provide security on both sides. It's very important, I think, to remember the Saudi peace initiative and what Arab countries have signed up to. That is normalizing their relations with Israel, provided Israel will accept the '67 borders.
HEMMER: Are the Europeans willing to go so far as President Bush is suggesting, in terms of dealing with Yasser Arafat? Quoting his words now from the East Room, "Yasser Arafat must show the world now that he is capable of leading." Once again he called him a disappointment. Are the Europeans willing to back the U.S. position on this and put the pressure that is necessary, in the White House view, on the Palestinian leader?
PATTEN: Our position has been strongly that Chairman Arafat had to do a great deal more to fight terrorism. We have also argued very strongly that it's deplorable that Arab leaders haven't been outspoken in condemning suicide bombing, for which there is never ever under any circumstances any excuse. But we've also pointed out that there has to be a political perspective in the Middle East. There has to be the perspective of meeting the legitimate aspirations of Palestinians for a viable state. But no political argument justifies the sort of violence that we've seen directed against innocent civilians.
HEMMER: And what is the concern then, going forward, Yasser Arafat's freedom of movement right now. If he were to leave the West Bank, leave Gaza entirely, is there a concern that he would be locked out from returning to that region?
PATTEN: I don't think it would be very sensible if he was to leave for him to be locked out, because I think that would make him into a martyr in the Arab world and for the Palestinian people. And that isn't, presumably, what Mr. Sharon wants.
HEMMER: But apparently the Israelis have not taken that off the table. In fact, Ariel Sharon said it last night on ABC, that he would not remove that possibility of keeping Yasser Arafat locked out if indeed he went out, in terms of traveling.
PATTEN: I think that sometimes friends of Israel should remind some of those who express the sentiments of the Likud Party that what they're saying and doing isn't necessarily in Israel's short, medium, or long-term interest. And I certainly think that whether Mr. Sharon likes Mr. Arafat or not, he has to deal with him, just as Mr. Arafat has to deal with Mr. Sharon.
HEMMER: You know this region quite well. I'm curious to know, from an historical perspective, where we stand right now, given the situation on the ground. Have the two sides become -- I don't want to say exhausted -- have they become tired? And do you believe there is a point right now, where there is a possibility of sitting down and talking peace? Or do you believe the converse of that, that we are far removed from that situation?
PATTEN: This is a long and bloody feud. And the terrible truth is that over the last year, things have gone from bad to worse to appallingly worse. There is no alternative but to sit down and talk peace. There is no alternative but to get back to Senator Mitchell's recommendations, the recommendations of Mr. Tenet, and to pick up the Saudi piece initiative. The only alternative, actually, is more blood, more mayhem, more dead children, more shattered lives, more misery.
HEMMER: Quickly, back to the question again though, how far away are we from that point, if the two sides are able to forge some sort of conversation or communication?
PATTEN: Well, I hope with the encouragement of their friends, and I hope with the encouragement of the international community, they will get back to talking. But in this terrible, bloody drama, it would be very difficult to predict hope and optimism just around the corner.
HEMMER: Thank you, sir. Christopher Patten from Washington. PATTEN: Thank you.
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